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BloodAngel

1st October, 2010: Behind the Scenes - October

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@ sir squab

 

im bsing? i could kill 5-10 nomads no doubt

 

nomad is fairly weak to stab, i have chaotic rapier

 

you have to use brews basicly, i have pack yak + inv of brews

 

brews lower your stats, i have overload

 

you cant use prot prayers, i have soul split and turmoil

 

you can dismiss yak supplys on floor, i summon steel titan (im 200k from 99 summon and i have thousands of charms, including blue, so in the time you take to read this post i could go get 99 if i wanted)

 

he hits alot with mage, ill just use eagle eye shield, ill also go buy morrigans since its fairly cheap for a special occasion

 

enhanced excalibur or claws for spec

 

basicly nomdad is a pushover, i killed him at 100 combat with none of the above listed, if your 120+ complaining its hard thers something wrong, if your lvl 90 complaining its hard you shouldnt be trying the quest

 

Doesn't even sound like you killed him once...

 

I agree with Squisher, Nomad was a pushover. With low herblore and summon, and fairly low melee combats, I killed him second try using welfare gear :x


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Three months banishment to 9gag is something i would never wish upon anybody, not even my worst enemy.

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LOL at everyone bashing Squisher for being good at MHing.


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To put it bluntly, [bleep] off.

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LOL at everyone bashing Squisher for being good at MHing.

 

well the main point of my post was to show that now we have the luxury of all these things, back when i first killed nomad i had none of that, things like rapier werent out

 

if i were to kill nomad now it would be a hell of alot eaiser than when i did it on day 1

 

thats why the newest grandmaster quest boss should be much harder, since theres much better stuff available now


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LOL at everyone bashing Squisher for being good at MHing.

 

well the main point of my post was to show that now we have the luxury of all these things, back when i first killed nomad i had none of that, things like rapier werent out

 

if i were to kill nomad now it would be a hell of alot eaiser than when i did it on day 1

 

thats why the newest grandmaster quest boss should be much harder, since theres much better stuff available now

 

I agree. Personally, I think grandmaster quests are hardly worthy of being the most difficult quests. There should be at least two more tiers -- elite and legendary quests (yes, I know there would be confusion between legendary quests and Legends' Quest). Elite should require 80-90 skills, legendary should require 90+ and have incredibly difficult bosses. Frankly, I could care less about people who think they're entitled to their quest capes. Quests should never have limits as far as difficulty and skill requirements.


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I agree. Personally, I think grandmaster quests are hardly worthy of being the most difficult quests. There should be at least two more tiers -- elite and legendary quests (yes, I know there would be confusion between legendary quests and Legends' Quest). Elite should require 80-90 skills, legendary should require 90+ and have incredibly difficult bosses. Frankly, I could care less about people who think they're entitled to their quest capes. Quests should never have limits as far as difficulty and skill requirements.

 

I think the requirements should stay the same, but the bosses should be incredibly difficult.

 

People don't want to grind smithing for 100 hours and spend crazy amonts of money or whatever just to do a quest that borderline involves the skill. Bosses can be beaten with creativity or simply high combat stats, theres no way around incredibly high skill requirements outside lolgrinding a skill that could hardly be considered fun.

 

It would be like if a quest came out that you could do, but oh wait it requires 97 fishing cause apparently you need to catch some enchanted fish to actually do the end bossfight.


O.O

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I agree. Personally, I think grandmaster quests are hardly worthy of being the most difficult quests. There should be at least two more tiers -- elite and legendary quests (yes, I know there would be confusion between legendary quests and Legends' Quest). Elite should require 80-90 skills, legendary should require 90+ and have incredibly difficult bosses. Frankly, I could care less about people who think they're entitled to their quest capes. Quests should never have limits as far as difficulty and skill requirements.

 

I think the requirements should stay the same, but the bosses should be incredibly difficult.

 

People don't want to grind smithing for 100 hours and spend crazy amonts of money or whatever just to do a quest that borderline involves the skill. Bosses can be beaten with creativity or simply high combat stats, theres no way around incredibly high skill requirements outside lolgrinding a skill that could hardly be considered fun.

 

It would be like if a quest came out that you could do, but oh wait it requires 97 fishing cause apparently you need to catch some enchanted fish to actually do the end bossfight.

 

What's wrong with that? I don't believe that all content should be geared toward the average player. If a quest require 97 fishing, which you don't have, then the quest wasn't geared towards you, so you shouldn't worry about not being able to do it. If you ARE worried about it, maybe it's time to do some serious skilling.


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I agree. Personally, I think grandmaster quests are hardly worthy of being the most difficult quests. There should be at least two more tiers -- elite and legendary quests (yes, I know there would be confusion between legendary quests and Legends' Quest). Elite should require 80-90 skills, legendary should require 90+ and have incredibly difficult bosses. Frankly, I could care less about people who think they're entitled to their quest capes. Quests should never have limits as far as difficulty and skill requirements.

 

I think the requirements should stay the same, but the bosses should be incredibly difficult.

 

People don't want to grind smithing for 100 hours and spend crazy amonts of money or whatever just to do a quest that borderline involves the skill. Bosses can be beaten with creativity or simply high combat stats, theres no way around incredibly high skill requirements outside lolgrinding a skill that could hardly be considered fun.

 

It would be like if a quest came out that you could do, but oh wait it requires 97 fishing cause apparently you need to catch some enchanted fish to actually do the end bossfight.

 

What's wrong with that? I don't believe that all content should be geared toward the average player. If a quest require 97 fishing, which you don't have, then the quest wasn't geared towards you, so you shouldn't worry about not being able to do it. If you ARE worried about it, maybe it's time to do some serious skilling.

 

What, you think content should be geared towards those willing to grind to 97 in practically the slowest skill in the game for nothing but a quest requirement?

 

If you have the ability to kill the boss with combat, you should be able to do the quest without level requirements that go into the hundreds of hours of grinding.

 

Yes, the boss in question should be a very hard quest that only very good or very high leveled players could do, it should not have requirements that are hardly a test of skill or... anything really.

 

I wouldn't mind so much if the requirement was a soft requirement (weakens the boss if you have 97 fishing, would be hard without it, yadayada), but hard requirements that run into the 90's is really just ludicrous.


O.O

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More high level content gives me more to work for. Always a good thing. I get bored working towards my one goal of Turmoil every now and then.


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I piety the fool.

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What, you think content should be geared towards those willing to grind to 97 in practically the slowest skill in the game for nothing but a quest requirement?

 

Some content, yes. I don't see how diversity is a problem. There are plenty of quests with low requirements (read: all of them), so why not have a few quests for the most elite of players?


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What, you think content should be geared towards those willing to grind to 97 in practically the slowest skill in the game for nothing but a quest requirement?

 

Some content, yes. I don't see how diversity is a problem. There are plenty of quests with low requirements (read: all of them), so why not have a few quests for the most elite of players?

Well, that's their plan, and they've said as much. But they're working up to it. It would be a little jarring for the highest quest requirement to suddenly jump from 80-ish to 90+, and not very fair to players who are trying to follow the storyline.

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Some content, yes. I don't see how diversity is a problem. There are plenty of quests with low requirements (read: all of them), so why not have a few quests for the most elite of players?

 

See, i don't mind that there are quests for elite players. But these quests should be hard in the sense that they have hard puzzles, constantly hard fights in between, and a very hard boss at the and. That naturally only elite players can do anyway, but can be done by lower level players as well if they are very good at say, prayer switching, very well prepared, or abuse some glitch to make the boss extremely easy (lol).

 

If the only way for jagex to make content for "elite" players is by making a 90+ grind-skill requirement, then they are doing it wrong. The way to make content for elite players is to make the boss fights so hard that it would be unrealistic or at least extremely hard for anyone else.

 

As much as it pains me to agree with xxshady...

 

Less grind. (You have to click that tree for 40 hours before starting this quest. No, it won't actually help you in the quest other than the arbitrary requirement. Please bend down!)


O.O

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If the only way for jagex to make content for "elite" players is by making a 90+ grind-skill requirement, then they are doing it wrong. The way to make content for elite players is to make the boss fights so hard that it would be unrealistic or at least extremely hard for anyone else.

 

Finally, someone else speaks some truth. :thumbup:


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If the only way for jagex to make content for "elite" players is by making a 90+ grind-skill requirement, then they are doing it wrong. The way to make content for elite players is to make the boss fights so hard that it would be unrealistic or at least extremely hard for anyone else.

 

Finally, someone else speaks some truth. :thumbup:

 

i agree, grinding doesn't show skill, quest's should be about the skills of the player not the 'skills' of the character


Sacrificing efficiency for fun since 1991


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Some content, yes. I don't see how diversity is a problem. There are plenty of quests with low requirements (read: all of them), so why not have a few quests for the most elite of players?

 

See, i don't mind that there are quests for elite players. But these quests should be hard in the sense that they have hard puzzles, constantly hard fights in between, and a very hard boss at the and. That naturally only elite players can do anyway, but can be done by lower level players as well if they are very good at say, prayer switching, very well prepared, or abuse some glitch to make the boss extremely easy (lol).

 

If the only way for jagex to make content for "elite" players is by making a 90+ grind-skill requirement, then they are doing it wrong. The way to make content for elite players is to make the boss fights so hard that it would be unrealistic or at least extremely hard for anyone else.

 

As much as it pains me to agree with xxshady...

 

Less grind. (You have to click that tree for 40 hours before starting this quest. No, it won't actually help you in the quest other than the arbitrary requirement. Please bend down!)

 

I actually agree with you for the most part. The real challenge of a quest should come from the puzzles, boss fights, etc, but I also feel that high requirements are important. For example, some sort of elite level quest that requires 97 fishing, but offers a reward that is worth getting 97 fishing for. Regardless of how you feel about grinding, there are tens of thousands of players with very, very high stats who don't have any content tailored exclusively to them (with the exception of effigies and SOME of the elite diaries, but even those aren't exclusively elite).

 

I think you're using 'grinding' too liberally, too. It may be grinding to you, but some people actually enjoy training skills outside of combat (this isn't a slant at you; my stats are clearly those of a combat-oriented player).

 

tl;dr - There should be content for players of ALL level ranges, from brand new accounts to players with near-maxed total.


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I actually agree with you for the most part. The real challenge of a quest should come from the puzzles, boss fights, etc, but I also feel that high requirements are important. For example, some sort of elite level quest that requires 97 fishing, but offers a reward that is worth getting 97 fishing for. Regardless of how you feel about grinding, there are tens of thousands of players with very, very high stats who don't have any content tailored exclusively to them (with the exception of effigies and SOME of the elite diaries, but even those aren't exclusively elite).

 

I just don't see why so many people demand that content (and especially in the case of quests), needs to have extremely high hard requirements.

 

Just because it is made for elite players, does not mean it has to have high requirements.

 

A quest could easily reward high requirements, without those requirements being hard requirements which require excessive grinding. (EG, your teleported to some island with no items and have 30 mins to prepare for a boss fight using only your skills. Basically a really really hardcore lost city), where almost every skill would be rewarded in some aspect, and one with high in all skills would have the boss fight relatively easy, while someone without these high stats would be very, very hard pressed to survive.

 

Just an example. But elite content does not nessesarily mean it needs extremely high requirements.

 

Corp is a pretty darned elite peice of content. Accessing corp on the other hand only requires 2 quests with what you would consider relatively low requirements. And no, you shouldn't have to grind 92 mining to access corp.

 

I think you're using 'grinding' too liberally, too. It may be grinding to you, but some people actually enjoy training skills outside of combat (this isn't a slant at you; my stats are clearly those of a combat-oriented player).

 

Maybe, but you shouldnt force people to do LRC for what, 200 hours just to access quest related content.

 

Some people may find it fun, but content shouldnt be exclusively for the very few who actually enjoy fishing/other skill for 100+ hours.


O.O

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I would like to see a grandmaster quest with 80+ skill requirements, but no 'boss fight' or anything so combat centric. Apparently it's okay to need high combat stats, but not okay to need high skill stats. <_<


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I edit for the [Tip.It Times]. I rarely write in [My Blog]. I am an [Ex-Moderator].

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I think you're using 'grinding' too liberally, too. It may be grinding to you, but some people actually enjoy training skills outside of combat (this isn't a slant at you; my stats are clearly those of a combat-oriented player).

 

Maybe, but you shouldnt force people to do LRC for what, 200 hours just to access quest related content.

 

I'm only going to address this point because I feel it's the meat of the discussion. No one is forcing anyone to do anything, and this is exactly my point. Elite quests with elite requirements are for elite players, so non-elite players need not be concerned with it. You don't see 138s going nuts over quests like Gunnar's Ground, right? I actually like your idea of putting a player on an island and giving him/her an alloted amount of time to prepare for an extremely difficult boss fight, but I still think that high requirements are an essential part of progressing the game. I just don't believe that all content should be available to everyone.


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No one is forcing anyone to do anything, and this is exactly my point.

 

Technically your not getting forced. But if you want to do the quest, your forced to do it.

 

Elite quests with elite requirements are for elite players, so non-elite players need not be concerned with it. You don't see 138s going nuts over quests like Gunnar's Ground, right?

 

Why wouldn't they be concerned with it? They may simply like quests (which unlike grinding fishing, are genuinely fun)

 

It may offer some combat related rewards that they feel they want, but don't hate themselves enough to grind LRC for 200 hours. Elite content is great, but it shouldn't have requirements tacked on which actually add nothing to the content. While limiting the players that can access it.

 

Elite content is elite content, elite requirements needlessly limit the elite content to a very select few.

 

Nomads requiem wouldn't be in any way improved if it had a 90 hunter requirement instead of a 65 hunter requirement...

 

I actually like your idea of putting a player on an island and giving him/her an alloted amount of time to prepare for an extremely difficult boss fight, but I still think that high requirements are an essential part of progressing the game. I just don't believe that all content should be available to everyone.

 

Its never been like that and it will never be like that.

 

Even if a quest had ZERO hard requirements, the soft requirements later on would render the quest nigh impossible for a low level player.


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Apparently it's okay to need high combat stats, but not okay to need high skill stats. <_<

 

Well, high combat stats can be circumvented to a certain extent. Either by being skilled, having more money for better equipment, having higher levels in skills like herblore, etc. Thats why i personally don't mind high combat requirements.

 

On the other hand, i don't see how you can get around a hard requirement for skills.

 

If for example you had a quest where you raid a series of dungeons and use all your skills to gather certain resources and avoid traps etc. How would you introduce a soft requirement? If you have a lowered chance of getting a certain item at a certain level, but can still get it, people will just spamclick until they get the item and the requirement would have been completely useless anyway. Unless failing to get the item teleported you to the start of the maze/puzzle/whatever, which would make the quest the new underground pass only 5 times worse.


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See, Racheya is an example of a player who would like higher skill requirements rather than more combat-oriented requirements. As I said before, there should be content (quests, specifically) for ALL level ranges. I really don't see the problem. There are level 20s who love questing, but are unable to complete The Underground Pass. Should Jagex lower the requirements of that quest so that the poor level 20 doesn't have to train a skill he/she doesn't like? No, of course not.


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I would like a group quest thats grandmaster.


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See, Racheya is an example of a player who would like higher skill requirements rather than more combat-oriented requirements. As I said before, there should be content (quests, specifically) for ALL level ranges.

 

Technically, quests can have high skill and combat requirements, as my example stated.

 

See, the thing is. Quest related content could have no requirements at all, and it would still be the EXACT SAME CONTENT. The only difference being that everyone would be able to access it, the only thing you achieve out of needlessly high requirements is limiting other players from having access to the content, thats the only difference.

 

Grind in between actual fun content is good, so there should be some requirements. Its a filler, and the reward is all the sweeter for the wait involved. However, needlessly high requirements that require extremely excessive amounts of grinding is not good. Especially when you get into the 90's where each level is hours, hours and hours apart.

 

Quests should be just as much about player skill/creativity as it is about the skill of your character, well done soft requirements achieve this. Hard requirements do not.

 

There are level 20s who love questing, but are unable to complete The Underground Pass. Should Jagex lower the requirements of that quest so that the poor level 20 doesn't have to train a skill he/she doesn't like? No, of course not.

 

Aside from the fact that underground passes requirements are hilariously low compared to 97 fishing...

 

Underground pass is good in that its requirements are soft requirements. Sure, its done in the wrong way, as it often cannot be circumvented with skill, but only luck. But the only true hard requirement is 25 ranged, the rest is technically optional.

 

I would hardly say the average level 20 could do the quest, but the point is he has the option to, theres no needless hard requirement in his way if he really wants to die 100 times getting to iban. This is the kind of content im talking about (skill based, not luck based, but you get the idea), the difficulty of the quest means this is only for higher level players, however jagex does not have to throw in a random level 70 agility requirement just to make the high levels happy.

 

I really don't see the problem.

 

Really? You still don't see the problem with having to grind 200 hours for a quest despite the fact that the requirement, in no way, shape, or form. Actually improves the content of the quest and is merely a way of making the "elite" players happy?


O.O

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Welcome to Runescape. I don't see how having 92 firemaking makes a person more or less capable of lighting all of the beacons, but it's still a requirement. Frankly, it sounds like you just want access to everything without having to do the work. As far as I'm concerned, every skill has 99 levels (and dungeoneering has 120), and there should be content for every single level of every single skill. That content should come in every possible form, including quests.

 

We'll have to agree to disagree. Every player, elite or otherwise, should have content tailored to them. That's the bottom line.


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