1st October, 2010: Behind the Scenes - October

[Troacctid]

Still though, if you need 94 magic to use ice barrage in a quest where 9 magical fires have to be taken out at the same time, I would see no problem in it.

Should be doable with Ice Burst actually.

[Den]

Still though, if you need 94 magic to use ice barrage in a quest where 9 magical fires have to be taken out at the same time, I would see no problem in it.

Should be doable with Ice Burst actually.

 

"This spell is not powerful enough to drench the flames." ;)

[Racheya]

Still though, if you need 94 magic to use ice barrage in a quest where 9 magical fires have to be taken out at the same time, I would see no problem in it.

Should be doable with Ice Burst actually.

 

"This spell is not powerful enough to drench the flames." ;)

I agree with Den's point - but wouldn't the fire melt the ice? :-#

[Will H]

Still though, if you need 94 magic to use ice barrage in a quest where 9 magical fires have to be taken out at the same time, I would see no problem in it.

Should be doable with Ice Burst actually.

 

"This spell is not powerful enough to drench the flames." ;)

 

 

Nah, that's just cheap. The challenge was working out that a multi-target ice spell was needed. Solving the puzzle then being told that the solution was unnecessarily higher than it really needed to be wouldn't be fair.

[Den]

Stop over-analyzing my sentence. ;_; The point was the requirement would be 94 magic. Any multi-damaging spell capable of drowning the fires under that level wouldn't be powerful enough of an effect.

[Sir_Kurity]

Prove that training any skill for 200 hours isn't fun.

 

You seriously need proof of this?

 

Ask anyone, watching your character bob up and down over a fishing spot with minimal interaction from you for 200 hours is anything but fun.

 

There may be a select few who like it, but they are few and far between, and quite frankly i doubt thats the fun talking.

 

And besides, I have no idea why this keeps going on. Its not like 97 in ANY skill will be a quest requirement anytime soon. Its like worrying about a comet suddenly hitting earth and wiping out loads of amounts of people while laying a large area barren.

 

We are arguing it because people want it.

 

Just because I want to complete every quest the second they come out with all my stats at 60, doesnt mean the requirements for quests should be capped at 60.

 

Hard requirements and soft requirements.

 

A challenging boss would remove and hope of completeing it with 60 stats, but with resourcefulness and simply being good at the same, you may be able to beat it with lower than reccomended stats. A 200 hour grind requirement however... Well theres no alternative outside grinding that skill for 200 hours.

 

Just because slayer isnt my favorite skill and I dont want to "grind 200 hours" to 99 for a skill cape, doesnt mean I should be handed one without doing it.

 

Irrelevant and very little to do with quests. A slightly cooler cape is hardly "content" in the same way that quests are.

 

Stop over-analyzing my sentence. ;_; The point was the requirement would be 94 magic. Any multi-damaging spell capable of drowning the fires under that level wouldn't be powerful enough of an effect.

 

Why? Why should a 94 magic requirement be thrown in for the sake of exclusivity.

 

Magic is generally funner and faster to train than fishing. But the fact is that it would NOTHING to the quest for ice barrage to work and ice burst to not work.

[Sir_Kurity]

for me, there sould exist quests that need some elite requirements, im not saying making all of them like that, not even close, i do agree that most should be mid level, but some (just a few) should be for elite. we have up till grandmaster, what if they just add another category, a harder one, with higher requirements, would that harm all players?

 

as i recall, the ideia of elite diarys was a good one, why not do the same to quests, but as i said, just a few, one to start perhaps ;)

 

if we shouldnt grind for requirements, everything in this game should be available at level 1...

 

Elite requirements do not equal elite content.

 

Even though elite diarys require elite requirements, they are not elite content. Anything but, they are not challenging in any way, and your only barrier to finishing say, the falador diary is your ability to tolerate boredom.

 

Elite quests should have elite content, extremely hard boss battles, hard puzzles, etc etc. They should not have "elite" requirements which require excessive grind while actually adding little or nothing to the actual quest.

[Sana]

for me, there sould exist quests that need some elite requirements, im not saying making all of them like that, not even close, i do agree that most should be mid level, but some (just a few) should be for elite. we have up till grandmaster, what if they just add another category, a harder one, with higher requirements, would that harm all players?

 

as i recall, the ideia of elite diarys was a good one, why not do the same to quests, but as i said, just a few, one to start perhaps ;)

 

if we shouldnt grind for requirements, everything in this game should be available at level 1...

 

Elite requirements do not equal elite content.

 

Even though elite diarys require elite requirements, they are not elite content. Anything but, they are not challenging in any way, and your only barrier to finishing say, the falador diary is your ability to tolerate boredom.

 

Elite quests should have elite content, extremely hard boss battles, hard puzzles, etc etc. They should not have "elite" requirements which require excessive grind while actually adding little or nothing to the actual quest.

 

Such requirements shows a commitment to the game, a certain level of dedication. This cannot be shown by someone that has put only an nth of the time in fluking their way through it. If you haven't got the requirements, either face the facts that you need to work for them (and yes, work DOES invlove doing things you won't enjoy all of the time) or simply stop complaining.

 

If you're finding Runescape, a game based upon clicking on things for hours on end, boring; stop playing and let us that do enjoy i -, or feel that the end reward will be worth the pain of achieving it - get on with our lives in peace. The diaries are elite content, in the way that only those that have put an "elite" amount of effort into this game can do them.

 

Jagex have introduced many challenging boss fights and puzzles and this has proven to be a great success, adding these to everything like you appear to be suggesting, however, would unblance the game and make the whole point of Runescape change. It's a social environment where you see benefitial growth of your character over time, a particularly skillful maneouvre may well come in useful in certain aspects, but cannot equal the levels of commitment shown by the "grinders"

 

I really don't see how your persistent whining is adding to this thread, really. Maybe you could make your own about the PATHETIC AND INTOLERABLE AMOUNT OF GRINDING in the game?

[Will H]

Stop over-analyzing my sentence. ;_; The point was the requirement would be 94 magic. Any multi-damaging spell capable of drowning the fires under that level wouldn't be powerful enough of an effect.

 

Sorry. :(

 

I can imagine that there would be some reasonable situations where a really high level in a skill is required, it's just that we're not ready for that yet.

[stonewall337]

Who cares about weather or not it makes sense (and it doesnt make sense to have to catch over 100 thousand fish just to please a king with some magical fish), this is a game, you play for fun. Whether or not it makes sense shouldn't be the major issue here seeing as runescape generally doesn't make sense anyway.

 

Having fun should be paramount, not 200 hours of grind just for the game to make "sense".

 

Prove that training any skill for 200 hours isn't fun.

 

 

Go train fishing for 200 hours, come back and tell me you had 100% fun doing it, then you can use that as proof. Sorry but that is just an idiotic thing to say.

 

 

The thing is, those arguing for higher requirements have't really said any reasons for it. The reasons for lower requirements without excess grind is to make the game fun, which we should all essentially be playing it for, and should be the groundwork and basis for any game that exists. Lower requirements let players train skills at their own pace going through the game without overloading them with all quests at once, but letting them get the levels through other quests, random musings, money making etc.

 

Grinding for requirements however has no point. They don't need to be there.

 

Well, RS is different then other games. I LOVED getting 99 slayer, but did I get frustrated at times, or bored? Of course. But it was still FUN. Its like most things, even an amusement park for example. Standing in lines, and paying lots of $$$ isn't fun, but the other parts more then make up for it. Correct me if I am wrong, Obt, but I believe that is what he is saying.

[Den]

We are arguing it because people want it.

 

I thought we were debating. :P Anyway, I thought this was going on because you didnt want 200 hours of grinding to 97 fishing (even though it would be more like 160 hours from your level unless you wanted to fish sharks to 97. In which case it would probably take over 200 hours.) while others either wouldnt mind it or wanted it. Its not just because others wanted a level 97 requirement.

 

Irrelevant and very little to do with quests. A slightly cooler cape is hardly "content" in the same way that quests are.

 

I dont see how its irrelevant. Both require grinding, the difference is one has storyline and a reward while the other only has a reward. If 99 slayer was required to slay a Demented Tormented Demon for While Guthix Sleeps 2, it would be quest related. Some would even say the slayer cape is better content than quests. It comes down to personal opinion.

 

Why? Why should a 94 magic requirement be thrown in for the sake of exclusivity.

 

Well I didn't write up a whole script for a quest series where Ice Barrage would be a requirement. If you want me to, I can make one up on the spot.

Lucien makes a forgotten zarosian fortress rise from beneath the surface in the northern part of the wilderness. He has created loads of magical traps and barriers to make sure you and any enemies wont make it in alive. Since he has the staff of armadyl and the stone of jas, these traps require highly skilled adventurers to break through the barriers to enter Lucien's chamber at the top of the fortress. While you arent able to break the barriers, you can use your most skilled talents to make enough time to pass through barriers. Fire barriers require 94 magic to penetrate through, creating enough space for you to pass before the barrier regenerates itself. Using Ice Burst wouldn't create a big enough hole in the barrier to enter through before the opening would close.

 

I can imagine that there would be some reasonable situations where a really high level in a skill is required, it's just that we're not ready for that yet.

 

I agree, no 90+ skills for quests should be added at this time. I think Jagex should keep slowly adding higher and higher levels like they are doing at the moment. It gives current players time to gain the required levels, and new players have a ton of quests to do anyway. High level quests would be something for them to aim for as a goal.

[Obtaurian]

Who cares about weather or not it makes sense (and it doesnt make sense to have to catch over 100 thousand fish just to please a king with some magical fish), this is a game, you play for fun. Whether or not it makes sense shouldn't be the major issue here seeing as runescape generally doesn't make sense anyway.

 

Having fun should be paramount, not 200 hours of grind just for the game to make "sense".

 

Prove that training any skill for 200 hours isn't fun.

 

Go train fishing for 200 hours, come back and tell me you had 100% fun doing it, then you can use that as proof. Sorry but that is just an idiotic thing to say.

 

I didn't ask for your opinion on fishing, nor do I care to give you my opinion on fishing. I asked if you could prove, with facts and statistics, that training any skill (you can choose any one you like) for 200 hours is inherently boring.

 

Can you?

 

EDIT:

 

Prove that training any skill for 200 hours isn't fun.

 

You seriously need proof of this?

 

Yes, I do. Your argument is that grinding should not be required to complete a quest, correct? Your argument assumes that all skills are equally tedious and boring (read: grinding), so I assume that you have proof that no one has fun training any particular skill in Runescape.

[MstrMonopoly]

http://forum.tip.it/blog/28/entry-2088-grandmaster-what-the-name-means-and-why-its-not-enough/

 

this pretty much states my feelings on the matter.

[Low C]

Click based game means skills such as fishing differ little. I could compare fishing to any other gathering skill considering most you click fish spot, rock, tree, hunting area, ect over and over. While doing such things over and over might not be "fun" to some, the satisfaction of gaining levels is what makes it fun for me.

[Sir_Kurity]

Such requirements shows a commitment to the game, a certain level of dedication. This cannot be shown by someone that has put only an nth of the time in fluking their way through it.

 

A 200 hour boredom commitment should not be the requirement to do a quest.

 

If you're finding Runescape, a game based upon clicking on things for hours on end, boring

 

I don't find it boring in its current form. There isnt that much excessive grind between the fun parts at the moment and im having quite an enjoyable time.

 

Having to grind 97 fishing for a quest i like however, would not be fun.

 

Jagex have introduced many challenging boss fights and puzzles and this has proven to be a great success, adding these to everything like you appear to be suggesting, however, would unblance the game and make the whole point of Runescape change.

 

Um, i never said add them to everything.

 

I'm saying that if you want content for elite players, it should be in the form of hard boss fights and puzzles, not in the form of 200 hour grind requirements.

 

I thought we were debating. :P Anyway, I thought this was going on because you didnt want 200 hours of grinding to 97 fishing (even though it would be more like 160 hours from your level unless you wanted to fish sharks to 97. In which case it would probably take over 200 hours.) while others either wouldnt mind it or wanted it. Its not just because others wanted a level 97 requirement.

 

Fishing is my second highest skill behind fletching, and despite this it still would take over 160 hours of grinding in order to get to 97.

 

Anyone with lower fishing :ohnoes:

 

I dont see how its irrelevant. Both require grinding, the difference is one has storyline and a reward while the other only has a reward.

 

Thats exactly the point.

 

Some of us do quests for the fun, not just the reward you know?

 

A slightly cooler looking cape does nothing but slightly enlarge your e-peen (even then with the capes so common as they are). A quest is a challenge, which offers hard bosses, perplexing puzzles, and most of all fun.

 

Well I didn't write up a whole script for a quest series where Ice Barrage would be a requirement.

 

That is so not the point, it wouldnt be that hard to say the fires only need 70 mage. The only reason to say they need 94 mage is to add an arbitary grind requirement.

 

As i said before...

 

I guess the main argument comes down as to weather you think grandmaster quests should have random arbitary 100-200+ hour grind requirements just for the sake of exclusivity. I don't think so, you people obviously do.

 

I think Jagex should keep slowly adding higher and higher levels like they are doing at the moment.

 

I agree to an extent. I think there should be a limit on the amount of grind.

 

I mean, to get just 1 fishing level above 90 takes what, 10-20 hours. If you need to do say, 2-3 fishing levels... That could easily run into the 50+ hours.

[CaJ]

I'm not fully supportive of the 'Make-X' improvements Jagex will implement this month. If that means easier 99s, I am against it.

 

While Guthix Sleeps was not hard, just lengthy with a lot of item requirements. Nomad's Requiem was much shorter, but involved a boss that needed a little strategy to beat. I wonder what will happen on the third strike.

 

I personally feel they should consider adding a second Special Quest into the game. Recipe for Disaster was pretty fun, and I hope Jagex does another one like it.

 

Other than that, I'm looking forward to this month.

[Sir_Kurity]

Yea, quests currently not being hard is enough issue altoghethor.

 

Its almost hilarious how many bosses you can beat as a level 50 by just safespotting and/or praying and pretty much going AFK.

[Obtaurian]

Prove that training any skill for 200 hours isn't fun.

[PereGrin]

Stop over-analyzing my sentence. ;_; The point was the requirement would be 94 magic. Any multi-damaging spell capable of drowning the fires under that level wouldn't be powerful enough of an effect.

A quest that requires 94 magic??? *runs to rumor mill and starts printing* I am gonna invest in runes :D

 

@Ironmint

 

RFD II? Where you fight against the Cosmeticomancer (derives power from cosmetics) to unlock a chest that sells you BARROWS BOOTS. Yeah! Should be fun. Not to sure about the themed weaponry from the chest though. Carrying around a giant exfoliating pad would look pretty ridiculous.

 

@everyone else

 

Why are we using fishing as a super high requirement example. There are not many slower skills out there. How about a 94 cooking requirement? That costs like 0 money, and takes like 30 hours to get or something like that.

 

Or like 95 strength, as that is the most common skill cape? (yeah, more people have 99 strength then 99 cooking, I didn't believe it either, till I saw it)

 

Although for fishing, I just park myself up in Piscatoris, and fish monks while I do homework. It really is amazing how much that skill can be AFK'd.

 

EDIT: is it just me, or did tripsis just take over the recently added topics?

[Sir_Kurity]

Prove that training any skill for 200 hours isn't fun.

Well your in for disapointment then. Fun is subjective so it can never be "proved" that its not fun.

 

What i can say though, is that watching your fisherman bob up and down on a fishing spot for 200 hours is anything but stimulating.

 

I mean, you could pretty much play a video on a 5 second loop and thats pretty much what your looking at while your fishing. Along with minimal interaction on your part, maybe a click every 30 seconds and a mousekey powerdrop/deposit box bank everytime your inventory is full.

 

If thats your definition of fun, then all power to you. But saying that applys to the majority is false.

 

Why are we using fishing as a super high requirement example.

 

Fishing is just a random example.

 

I'm not specifically opposing a 97 fishing requirement, im opposing the grind, regardless of weather its 95 cooking, smithing, fishing, or whatever. (admittedly cooking would be alot less painful, but still).

[Sir_Kurity]

Training a skill for 200 hours isnt fun, since thats my opinion it is proven, now where were you going with this?

 

Apparently he thinks training skills like fishing for 200 hours is fun, and a perfectly reasonable arbitary quest requirement for the sake of exclusivity while adding nothing to actual gameplay.

 

Your argument assumes that all skills are equally tedious and boring (read: grinding)

 

I never said all skills are equally tedious and boring, where are you getting this?

 

Many skills are incredibly tedious though, on varying levels, especially when you train to the 90+ range.

[Obtaurian]

So neither of you can prove, with facts and statistics, that not a single player finds any particular skill (you can choose any of them, doesn't matter to me) fun?

[Sir_Kurity]

So neither of you can prove, with facts and statistics, that not a single player finds any particular skill (you can choose any of them, doesn't matter to me) fun?

 

So one person by some miracle finds it fun, lets throw the 200 hour grind requirement for EVERYONE.

 

Hey, you know what i find fun? Ive always liked camping at the body rune spawn for 200 hours and picking up body runes. Lets make it a new quest requirement because i find it fun.

[Obtaurian]

So neither of you can prove, with facts and statistics, that not a single player finds any particular skill (you can choose any of them, doesn't matter to me) fun?

 

lol opinion isnt equal to facts, you would be a fool to think so

 

Maybe Sir Kurity can prove it, seeing as how you can't, apparently. He keeps making sweeping generalizations about certain skills, so I assume that he has data to prove that all players find fishing (or any skill) to be inherently boring/tedious (the opposite of fun).

 

So one person by some miracle finds it fun, lets throw the 200 hour grind requirement for EVERYONE.

 

Can you prove that only one person in all of Runescape finds fishing (or whatever skill) to be fun?

[Sir_Kurity]

Can you prove that only one person in all of Runescape finds fishing (or whatever skill) to be fun?

 

Your really just arguing technicalitys now...

 

You don't see me hassling you for proof about every statement you make. Its reasonable to assume that most people do not enjoy watching there character bob up and down over a fishing spot for 200 hours, but if you really need proof, i'll make a poll.

 

[equally flawed logic] Also prove that all people find fishing fun. Go go go, i assume you obviously have proof that all people find fishing fun! [/equally flawed logic]

 

Hey what is new with quests requiring skills you dislike? im sure most of us originally trained agility, thieving and herblore mainly for quests.

 

While 70 and 80 requirements are a hassle, it is a good motivator to train if you enjoy quests. If not then its not like not doing it will be burning away at you anyways. In fact I will go so far as to say im thankful for 65 herb req on WGS. It was the biggest motivator to get that skill to 70

 

If the only reason you train skills is because your motivated by quests, thats a problem with the skill.

 

Having excessive requirements (70's isnt that bad though) don't actually add anything to the game outside forcing grind, so why should they be there?

 

I guess the main argument comes down as to weather you think grandmaster quests should have random arbitary 100-200+ hour grind requirements just for the sake of exclusivity. I don't think so, you people obviously do.