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BloodAngel

1st October, 2010: Behind the Scenes - October

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jagex should remove rocktails from the game - i don't want to have to grind to level 90 to fish them

 

jagex should remove turmoil from the game - i don't want to have to grind to level 95 to fish them

 

jagex should remove strength from the game - i don't want to have to grind to level 99 to hit harder

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It seems people do not understand what we are saying. I will put it in a short list:

 


  •  
  • Level requirements add no fun to the game
  • Level requirements do not make the game hard, just grind
  • Just because Jagex say they will happen, doesn't mean we have to be happy and stop talking about it.
  • Content in which everybody can have a go at is much better for business than content which only a fraction can undertake.
  • Jagex have the brains to make quests hard without level requirements. Adding randomised puzzles for example.


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I disagree Danz, let me correlate the quest requirement to the overall requirements of runescape content. Over the past year or so we have seen the introduction of Turmoil (95 prayer) and Overloads (96 herblore). Those updates alone motivated me to reach goals I never imagined I would obtain just so I could get those two levels and benefit from the new updated content.

 

How is getting these levels, which were once useless, not similar to slapping a level requirement on a quest that gives the player a benefit? Such as a new ability or weaponry? I agree with you in saying grinding isn't fun. However, progressing to elite content doesn't have to be a grind and can be something to look forward to after the player has progressed through intermediate, and hard content. Does that make any sense?


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It seems people do not understand what we are saying. I will put it in a short list:

 


  •  
  • Level requirements add no fun to the game
  • Level requirements do not make the game hard, just grind
  • Just because Jagex say they will happen, doesn't mean we have to be happy and stop talking about it.
  • Content in which everybody can have a go at is much better for business than content which only a fraction can undertake.
  • Jagex have the brains to make quests hard without level requirements. Adding randomised puzzles for example.

 

I find level requirements to be rather fun to have. The fact that I got 88 sum miles in front of my friends was very fun. I mean, using a Uni when they are using a bunyip is just awesome :D Without the level requirements, it wouldn't be at all fun to have a uni. There is something to be said for bragging rights.

 

If level requirements just make the game a grind, then people should have high levels for everything anyway. I mean, saying level requirements are not hard basically says that levels are easy to get. If levels are easy to get, then why doesn't everyone have them? 97 fishing for example. I see quite a lot of posters saying that they don't like fishing on here. But fishing is easy to get, it's just a grind. But these people hate fishing, so I would assume that they can not make themselves fish for very long, they just leave and do something else. If it is difficult for them to keep fishing, then fishing would be hard for them.

 

There is tons of content for everyone. All these quests require relatively low levels that are rather easily reached. It is also good for business to keep people around longer by giving them something to work for. Enabling them to finish all quests at level 3 would lose plenty of players because they would have nothing to work for.

 

Randomized puzzles don't make the game hard. Celtic knots and puzzle boxes from clues are pitiful. They are incredibly easy to do, just a few clicks and you finish up. The puzzles in dungeoneering are the same way. Puzzles are easy, and mostly annoying, not fun.


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There is a difference between quest level requirements and skill items unlocked at certain levels such as prayers. This is that quests are separate from skills. You skill to achieve levels and these items you can attain. If you want to grind for them that is fine. But quests are quests, not skills. They should be playable separate from having to grind skilling.

 

As said, we are not saying have no level requirements, but do not make players grind excessively for them. For example, if we have had a quest requiring level 90 in x skill, yet most players would only get that skill to around 70 after completing all the other quests and having played the game for an acceptable time, the requirement would be nothing but grind. However, If Jagex were to implement more quests and content to get you to that 90, then the requirement would be less intrusive.

 

Maybe it is Runescape as a whole which needs change, making levels more fun and less grind, but that doesn't discount from the main discussion of the level requirements not being good for the game.


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they said they aren't going to suddenly create a 95 quest req when the next highest is 75. they said they are going to build up to it.

 

so your fears are unjustified

 

i agree that many skills need to be more fun to train - hunter i'm looking at you

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It seems people do not understand what we are saying. I will put it in a short list:

 


  •  
  • Level requirements add no fun to the game
  • Level requirements do not make the game hard, just grind
  • Just because Jagex say they will happen, doesn't mean we have to be happy and stop talking about it.
  • Content in which everybody can have a go at is much better for business than content which only a fraction can undertake.
  • Jagex have the brains to make quests hard without level requirements. Adding randomised puzzles for example.

 

YOU dont understand that quests cant be hard without a level requirement.

 

Levels are the only hardness of a quest a guide cant be written for (even if there is a guide you still need the levels).

 

The hardest puzzle can have a guide written (EW3 and MEP2), the hardest non combat boss, pales in comparison to nomad and Jagex will not make a reflex boss after the precedence they set with the fire cape req on Ice Strykewyrmes. (if not even elite slayer monsters wont require a reflex fight, why would a quest?).

 

Randomised puzzles would take a LOT more effort, I would rather see other things developed then time wasted on a randomised puzzle.

 

Level requirements simply make more sense, im sorry you fail to see so

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YOU dont understand that quests cant be hard without a level requirement.

 

Getting levels isn't "hard". It's just time consuming.


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I'm more leaning toward randomly generated puzzles, riddles, or coordinate clue-type things which require thought and reasoning to complete. Jagex has implemented some of these things in shorter quests; just not on a scale which is deserving of a true "grandmaster" quest.

 

Edit: I feel like the different sides are like two ships passing in the night. You're not understanding, or perhaps refusing to acknowledge each other's points, so there's no verbal contact. In the end, there's really no grounds for a debate, at least not in the way you're proceeding.


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YOU dont understand that quests cant be hard without a level requirement.

 

Getting levels isn't "hard". It's just time consuming.

 

Nothing in a game is really "hard" as much as time consuming, but its generally accepted hard = time consuming.

 

Rc is hard because its terribly slow xp per hour while prayer is easy because its fast xp per hour.

 

(money grinds for training fall under time consuming, and effort would also be a factor in hardness i suppose)

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YOU dont understand that quests cant be hard without a level requirement.

 

Getting levels isn't "hard". It's just time consuming.

 

Nothing in a game is really "hard" as much as time consuming, but its generally accepted hard = time consuming.

 

Rc is hard because its terribly slow xp per hour while prayer is easy because its fast xp per hour.

 

(money grinds for training fall under time consuming, and effort would also be a factor in hardness i suppose)

 

Really? Games aren't hard? Play a scrim in CS Source and tell me that again, RS kid.

 

and what part of runescape quests, aside from the grind, is hard

 

i haven't found one

 

Thats my point. Runescape needs more skill instead of relying on grinding for difficulty.


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YOU dont understand that quests cant be hard without a level requirement.

 

Getting levels isn't "hard". It's just time consuming.

 

Nothing in a game is really "hard" as much as time consuming, but its generally accepted hard = time consuming.

 

Rc is hard because its terribly slow xp per hour while prayer is easy because its fast xp per hour.

 

(money grinds for training fall under time consuming, and effort would also be a factor in hardness i suppose)

 

Really? Games aren't hard? Play a scrim in CS Source and tell me that again, RS kid.

you spend time doing it, you get better at doing it. hard=time consuming.


DK drops (solo/LS): 66 hatchets, 14 archer rings, 13 berserker rings, 17 warrior rings, 12 seerculls, 13 mud staves, 7 seers rings

QBD drops: 1 kite, 2 visages, 4 dragonbone kits, 3 effigies, lots of crossbow parts

CR vs. CLS threads always turn into discussions about penis size.
...
It's not called a Compensation Longsword for nothing.

I've sent a 12k combat mission to have Aiel assassinated (poor bastard isn't even Pincers-tier difficulty).

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You're trying to put everybody on an equal playing field though which is unrealistic. It doesn't make sense to let everybody do a quest that will test their combat and puzzle solving skills and then say, well you can't have the reward because you aren't high level.

 

Why not? Some people play quests for the fun believe it or not.

 

I'll just have to respectfully disagree with your argument I think.

THANK GOD FINALLY.

 

Now, let's end this rather long-winded tiring, and seemingly pointless debate, and go back to discussing the BTS.

 

So, we've seen the Void quest. What do you guys think/hope/wish Charm Sprites will be like?


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So, we've seen the Void quest. What do you guys think/hope/wish Charm Sprites will be like?

Sounds like spirit implings to me, but in a minigame format.


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There is nothing to discuss IMO. We now know exactly what the rest of the updates are, except for Halloween which I doubt no one cares about. Dunno about hunter updates, but I doubt there are that many summoning tanks that would benifit from this.


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and what part of runescape quests, aside from the grind, is hard

 

i haven't found one

 

Thats my point. Runescape needs more skill instead of relying on grinding for difficulty.

well until jagex figures out how to add difficulty other than having bosses that onehit you, all there is for quests is reqs

 

i think we actually might see eye to eye on this one

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and what part of runescape quests, aside from the grind, is hard

 

i haven't found one

 

Thats my point. Runescape needs more skill instead of relying on grinding for difficulty.

well until jagex figures out how to add difficulty other than having bosses that onehit you, all there is for quests is reqs

 

i think we actually might see eye to eye on this one

:thumbup:


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YOU dont understand that quests cant be hard without a level requirement.

 

Getting levels isn't "hard". It's just time consuming.

 

Nothing in a game is really "hard" as much as time consuming, but its generally accepted hard = time consuming.

 

Rc is hard because its terribly slow xp per hour while prayer is easy because its fast xp per hour.

 

(money grinds for training fall under time consuming, and effort would also be a factor in hardness i suppose)

 

Really? Games aren't hard? Play a scrim in CS Source and tell me that again, RS kid.

you spend time doing it, you get better at doing it. hard=time consuming.

 

This and i know you play WoW as well shady, that game is just like rs, takes time to be good not skill. (or in the case of a raiding, it takes 25 people with half a brain)

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YOU dont understand that quests cant be hard without a level requirement.

 

Getting levels isn't "hard". It's just time consuming.

 

Nothing in a game is really "hard" as much as time consuming, but its generally accepted hard = time consuming.

 

Rc is hard because its terribly slow xp per hour while prayer is easy because its fast xp per hour.

 

(money grinds for training fall under time consuming, and effort would also be a factor in hardness i suppose)

 

Really? Games aren't hard? Play a scrim in CS Source and tell me that again, RS kid.

you spend time doing it, you get better at doing it. hard=time consuming.

 

This and i know you play WoW as well shady, that game is just like rs, takes time to be good not skill. (or in the case of a raiding, it takes 25 people with half a brain)

 

WoW takes time AND skill. If you don't have good reflexes and a good understanding of the mechanics of a specific boss, your group will wipe. Just like if you don't understand how to kill a gluttenous behemoth you're gonna just stand there and attack for hours until you run out of heim crabs.

 

Nomad = skill. Firemaking = grind.

 

More Nomad, less Firemaking. I don't think anyone will be able to disagree with that.


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nomad does not require skill, just having the combat stats to kill him before you run out of your brews

 

imo skele trio is a better example

 

I'm sure that's true for maxed players. I'm talking about the average player who attempts to kill Nomad. Saying it doesn't take any skill is pretty ridiculous.

 

And yes, several Dungeoneering bosses take skill as well. That's why Dungeoneering is one of my favorite updates of all time (incentivizing the grinding, while rewarding it with fun gameplay, while having useful rewards and perks).


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nomad does not require skill, just having the combat stats to kill him before you run out of your brews

 

imo skele trio is a better example

 

I'm sure that's true for maxed players. I'm talking about the average player who attempts to kill Nomad. Saying it doesn't take any skill is pretty ridiculous.

 

And yes, several Dungeoneering bosses take skill as well. That's why Dungeoneering is one of my favorite updates of all time (incentivizing the grinding, while rewarding it with fun gameplay, while having useful rewards and perks).

 

i killed nomad without any 80 combat stats but hp, ammi skilled in doing so? not really the mechanics of the fight are pretty straightforward its just a dps/endurance race

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nomad does not require skill, just having the combat stats to kill him before you run out of your brews

 

imo skele trio is a better example

 

I'm sure that's true for maxed players. I'm talking about the average player who attempts to kill Nomad. Saying it doesn't take any skill is pretty ridiculous.

 

And yes, several Dungeoneering bosses take skill as well. That's why Dungeoneering is one of my favorite updates of all time (incentivizing the grinding, while rewarding it with fun gameplay, while having useful rewards and perks).

 

i killed nomad without any 80 combat stats but hp, ammi skilled in doing so? not really the mechanics of the fight are pretty straightforward its just a dps/endurance race

Not to mention knowing not to step on the 'mines,' knowing to hide from his 700(i think)-hitting attack, to hide from/autoretaliate the clones, the brew up when he freezes you, to use a cargo familiar until you're out of food....

 

I see Nomad very much like I see Dwarf Fortress. If you do everything right, and in the right order, with the right amount of experience in having done so (i.e. skill), or with the right amount of sheer brute force (i.e. steel titan, ovls, and turmoil) you will succeed. Otherwise, you basically get dumped in magma. (And sorry for those who don't get the reference; you'd have to have played the game.)


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nomad does not require skill, just having the combat stats to kill him before you run out of your brews

 

imo skele trio is a better example

 

I'm sure that's true for maxed players. I'm talking about the average player who attempts to kill Nomad. Saying it doesn't take any skill is pretty ridiculous.

 

And yes, several Dungeoneering bosses take skill as well. That's why Dungeoneering is one of my favorite updates of all time (incentivizing the grinding, while rewarding it with fun gameplay, while having useful rewards and perks).

 

i killed nomad without any 80 combat stats but hp, ammi skilled in doing so? not really the mechanics of the fight are pretty straightforward its just a dps/endurance race

shady, this is what i was referring to. the fight takes no skill - it's just dealing damage faster than he can use your brews

 

a fight like skele trio involves kiting, binding, use of multiple combat styles, correct use of prayers, as well as being tough monsters

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