1st October, 2010: Behind the Scenes - October

[Jehosaphat]

I'd like to be able to enjoy the lore of Runescape while in the game without enduring seemingly-endless hours of fishing/runecrafting/cooking/farming/what have you. If you'd prefer that the ingame lore of runescape be restricted to only those who can tolerate that, I guess that's just a difference in opinion.

 

Now, can we PLEASE get back to discussing the BTS instead of "AMG QUEST REQS TOO HIGH/LOW/GRINDISH/FULL OF MONKEY POO."

 

I personally can't wait for the make-x improvements. Makes smelting for smithing that much easier.

[Den]

I probably feel that way because having 80 magic (current highest quest requirement) doesn't feel special to me in any way.

If there was any requirements for quests worth calling high leveled, I might feel different.

 

So basically, we are back at the starting point. All high requirements do is make high level "elite" players, feel special because they have a greater tolerance for 200 hours of boredom than most other players.

 

Might is the keyword. I never said "YES, High level requirements will make me feel so uberly awesome!"

Il let you know how I feel when it happens in 5-10 years time.

[Kata_Phfract__the_slayer]

all i can say is: i hope jagex never makes a quest with requirrements much higher then 80 (85 max).

 

but i have no problem with side requirements to quest getting any level (120! lololol)

think under ground pass, at one point, with 50 theafing, you can skip part of the maze, thats what i mean. not requireing 90 attack or 87 herb etc, but helping a lot if you have it.

 

its like beign a 1 def pure, you chouse to not get all your skills up giveing you a disadvantage in some ways, thus doing quests is harder, but not imposible. but insted of haveing 1 defence, you may have say: 55 wood cuting insted of the advised 92.

[Sir_Kurity]

Lol, resorting to the "yer a high level so [bleep] you" argument? I think we can see where this is going.

 

The argument isnt "f-u your a high level" its that excessive requirements do nothing except make high levels feel special, while adding nothing to the actual content or game.

 

If anything, your argument is the one shafting the low level players, by excluding content from them until they excessively grind to X level for Y requirement.

 

I'd like to be able to enjoy the lore of Runescape while in the game without enduring seemingly-endless hours of fishing/runecrafting/cooking/farming/what have you.

 

Exactly.

 

Might is the keyword. I never said "YES, High level requirements will make me feel so uberly awesome!"

Il let you know how I feel when it happens in 5-10 years time.

 

So it makes you feel special or it doesnt make you feel special, either way, its not adding to the content of the game.

 

I myself feel an different joy when something is added to the game and i still can't do it, it makes the whole path till i complete a fun and enjoying one.

 

Maybe the journey of 200 hours of fishing grind is fun and joyful for you...

[Obtaurian]

Lol, resorting to the "yer a high level so [bleep] you" argument? I think we can see where this is going.

 

If anything, your argument is the one shafting the low level players, by excluding content from them until they excessively grind to X level for Y requirement.

 

Uh, obviously. This is Runescape. You have to gain levels to get stuff.

[ho3f3l]

 

I myself feel an different joy when something is added to the game and i still can't do it, it makes the whole path till i complete a fun and enjoying one.

 

Maybe the journey of 200 hours of fishing grind is fun and joyful for you...

 

Now just imagine how absurd it was, that instead of jumping from max required level of fishing 60's or 70's to directly to 97, they first make a quest that requires like 75, then some time after one that requires around 80's, and so on till they make one in the 90's. wouldnt that be different?

 

like i said before

 

do i think that quests should jump their higher actual requiremnt, of 70? 80? directly to 97, no i dont think so, but as more grandmasters quests or special quests, and perhaps a new category of quests are released, the levels to complete them should as well.

[Michael]

So you continue to [bleep] and whine about a possible future update, requiring 95+ stats? That is a long time off if at all likely of happening.

[Sir_Kurity]

Uh, obviously. This is Runescape. You have to gain levels to get stuff.

 

Gaining some levels with maybe a couple of hours of work in order to do a quest is different from fishing for 200 hours for a quest requirement. Ive said it once and i'll say it again, i don't mind some grind, i do mind excessive grind.

 

I'll ask you once again, do you think a 97 fishing requirement would make the game funner to play? Thats my primary argument here, and seeing as this is a game fun should be the primary concern (and not the e-peen of high level players).

 

So you continue to [bleep] and whine about a possible future update, requiring 95+ stats? That is a long time off if at all likely of happening.

 

Thats not the point here, some people complain about low requirements and want much higher requiements, and im arguing against it.

 

Now just imagine how absurd it was, that instead of jumping from max required level of fishing 60's or 70's to directly to 97, they first make a quest that requires like 75, then some time after one that requires around 80's, and so on till they make one in the 90's. wouldnt that be different?

 

Thats a decent compromise, but only if it is in a single skill, and maybe in single increments.

 

Firstly, lets look at the latest grandmaster quest, requireing 4 skills over the 70 range. Now this isnt really getting to the excessive part, but they are pretty high requirements.

 

Now lets think about what a future elite quest might look like, if it slowly worked its way up to the 95 range, needing 4 skills at 95. The next quest may need 4 skills at 97, it looks like a small increment but...

 

There is almost 2 million XP between 95-97.

 

Which is 8 mill in a total of 4 skills.

 

Which at say, 100k average experience per hour (more for things like herblore, but you have to take money into consideration, less for things like fishing), is still 80 hours for a single quest.

 

Is that too much? I don't know. But i personally don't think it will improve the game to have those requirements there.

[Michael]

They were never saying a massive jump from the level of requirements we currently have too 95+. Just look how long it took to get to the highest yet undeniably average level requirement of 80 magic.

[Sir_Kurity]

80 doesnt seem that average to me.

 

In my opinion its quite high.

[Michael]

As of right now, there are 396985 with 80 magic. Decidedly average.

[Sir_Kurity]

How many of those are active, and how many active players are there right now.

 

If more than 30% active players have over 80 magic, i'll concede that its average.

 

(seeing as how thats quite hard to argue without jagex data...)

 

Leveling magic from 1-80 takes 2 mill experience, which with alching is ~25-30 hours not including the money required. And this is with upmost attention (you can't even AFK mage like you can with fishing).

[Michael]

As alching is the fastest way ever to train mage to 80, I'll take your word for it :)

[Sir_Kurity]

Other ways require more money or higher levels generally.

[Den]

Casting High alchemy is one of the easiest ways of multitasking though.

 

Watch a few movies while clicking every 3 seconds with your mouse. High alchemy works so that if you click before the animation ends, it plays the next animation when the current one continues, so it doesnt require attention at all.

[Sir_Kurity]

Thats the movie being fun, not the game, but aside from that.

 

Watching a movie on a tiny screen spamming the 5 key while responding to calls of "R U A BOTA?" really kills with the immersion.

 

Point is, i consider level 80 a fairly high skill, and it does take quite a while to get.

[Obtaurian]

No, it doesn't. 80 magic is low and very easy to get. There are very few skills that are actually somewhat difficult to get to 80, and those are slayer, runecrafting, agility, and mining.

[ho3f3l]

Now just imagine how absurd it was, that instead of jumping from max required level of fishing 60's or 70's to directly to 97, they first make a quest that requires like 75, then some time after one that requires around 80's, and so on till they make one in the 90's. wouldnt that be different?

 

Thats a decent compromise, but only if it is in a single skill, and maybe in single increments.

 

Firstly, lets look at the latest grandmaster quest, requireing 4 skills over the 70 range. Now this isnt really getting to the excessive part, but they are pretty high requirements.

 

Now lets think about what a future elite quest might look like, if it slowly worked its way up to the 95 range, needing 4 skills at 95. The next quest may need 4 skills at 97, it looks like a small increment but...

 

There is almost 2 million XP between 95-97.

 

Which is 8 mill in a total of 4 skills.

 

Which at say, 100k average experience per hour (more for things like herblore, but you have to take money into consideration, less for things like fishing), is still 80 hours for a single quest.

 

Is that too much? I don't know. But i personally don't think it will improve the game to have those requirements there.

 

yes it would still take a while, but i honestly think that the first higher requirements will come from faster skills, and quests now give a big chunck of xp. well i remember the 30k to choose were alot, WGS gave 400k, Nomad Requiem 70 zeal points that can give more than 400k in combat, Blood runs deep 450k to combat, this one 100k free to choose (if i got it right), and some more.

 

Perhaps as difficulty of requirements increase, the xp reward does as well (not directly, as this one gave less than others), so maybe a big part of those 8mill are given from the previous quests, using them on the most slowest ones, improves the average xp per hour, and maybe you will only need like 40-50h

 

its some time, but even for the average scaper, still doable to be ready to do the quest not so long after release.

 

oh and don't forget the time elapsed from one quest to another, if you are already at level 95 from previous quest, chance are that the average scaper at least in one of them, choosed to aim for the 99 to get the skill cape, and got before the new quest.

[Danqazmlp]

The problem here as always seems to be a select few users cannot concede an inch to another players argument. We have two groups of players here, Those who want to play games games core lore without having to excessively grind for it with almost no purpose, and those who want excessive grind to feel exclusive. Neither want to move, so can we not agree to disagree on where the game should head?

[Obtaurian]

The problem here as always seems to be a select few users cannot concede an inch to another players argument. We have two groups of players here, Those who want to play games games core lore without having to excessively grind for it with almost no purpose, and those who want excessive grind to feel exclusive. Neither want to move, so can we not agree to disagree on where the game should head?

 

Wrong. No one's arguing that high skill requirements should implemented for the sake of exclusivity. Though I do agree that this argument is idiotic.

[Danqazmlp]

Then why are you arguing for high level requirements?

[Obtaurian]

Then why are you arguing for high level requirements?

 

1. There's a direct correlation between the requirements of a quest and how "difficult" it is.

2. The rewards would undoubtedly be amazing for quests with such high requirements and of such difficulty.

3. It gives people something to work for. Back when I was questing hardcore, I relished leveling my skills because I wanted to complete every quest. Frankly, I'm bored of not having to train to do new quests.

 

Regardless of any of that, requirements in the 90s are inevitable. It won't happen soon, but it will happen. It makes sense, as many posters have mentioned, that a quester would have to be a master of various skills to help everyone.

 

This is why this argument is pointless: it will happen regardless of whether or not you want it.

[Danqazmlp]

Then why are you arguing for high level requirements?

 

1. There's a direct correlation between the requirements of a quest and how "difficult" it is. Difficulty can be achieved in different ways. Puzzles, length, bosses etc.

2. The rewards would undoubtedly be amazing for quests with such high requirements and of such difficulty. See above

3. It gives people something to work for. Back when I was questing hardcore, I relished leveling my skills because I wanted to complete every quest. Frankly, I'm bored of not having to train to do new quests.

I do not disagree, however, I would prefer if non-quest related things were the aim of skills. For example, having a skill more full in the higher levels. This should not be dumped on quests though. It is as if just because skills are not fleshed out, quests need to fill the gap, which they shouldn't imo.

 

Regardless of any of that, requirements in the 90s are inevitable. It won't happen soon, but it will happen. It makes sense, as many posters have mentioned, that a quester would have to be a master of various skills to help everyone.

 

This is why this argument is pointless: it will happen regardless of whether or not you want it.

 

Your end argument seems to be very pessimistic and negative. Things can change with the right ideas. Currently with skills not fleshed out, yes it will happen, but if skills were to be fleshed out, maybe other quest rewards made higher so to level the player up faster without grind, things could be different. This isn't supposed to be an argument, it is supposed to be a discussion as to how to change the game for the better. You don't just have to accept it as it is.

[Bladewing]

yeah because i played runescape JUST so i could say i'm better than you

 

no

 

i played runescape because i enjoyed it, and now i want some quest content that can utilize what i've accomplished

[Danqazmlp]

Blade to be honest, I haven't seen you use a full sentence, paragraph and constructive discussion for ages, so It isn't much of a stretch to think why your arguments add nothing to the thread. If you want to be taken at all seriously, remember this is Tip.It and not the RSOF. I don't care about your view as long as you actually portray it in a constructive way like everybody else.

 

If you actually want to be included here, remember that you can still use content if it has requirements below your level. If for example you had fun training a skill to an abnormal level, does not mean the rest of the population would. It would make content much more widely used if it was available at a lower level. Especially as quests deal with the core lore of the game which entices new customers for Jagex, it is in their best interest to use lower levels.