1st October, 2010: Behind the Scenes - October

[Obtaurian]

Can you prove that only one person in all of Runescape finds fishing (or whatever skill) to be fun?

 

Your really just arguing technicalitys now...

 

You don't see me hassling you for proof about every statement you make. Its reasonable to assume that most people do not enjoy watching there character bob up and down over a fishing spot for 200 hours, but if you really need proof, i'll make a poll.

 

My problem with your argument is that it is predicated on the notion that your opinion is shared by 100% (except for that one player who miraculously likes fishing, apparently) of the Runescape population. In other words, you are trying to argue that your opinion holds more weight than anyone else's.

 

You don't think that quests should require high levels. I do. Who's right? Neither of us is right because we have differing opinions. However, my opinion has more basis in reality, as it only makes sense that, someday, Runescape quests will have requirements in the 90s. Furthermore, as other posters have explained, mythological heroes have always had to utilize various skills to complete their endeavors. You think Runescape should be different, but your only argument is that you don't want to raise your skills, therefore Jagex shouldn't "make" you, which is a perfect example of "pure syndrome" (it's a stereotype that pures often want things they can't have due to their handicaps, so they complain).

 

tl;dr - you're lazy.

 

[equally flawed logic] Also prove that all people find fishing fun. Go go go, i assume you obviously have proof that all people find fishing fun! [/equally flawed logic]

 

Where did I claim that 100% of people like fishing? :rolleyes:

[SirHartlar]

I'm personally all for having hard skill quest requirements. If people don't have the level they have a choice, either train their skills or don't do the quest. It seems quite simple to me, Jagex should continue an upward trend of quest requirements so that eventually there are quests that can be considered elite content. Skill requirements have always been a part of how the difficulty of a quest is gauged, the best way to increase the difficulty of a quest is to increase the skill requirement. I don't feel this is unfair, not everyone will be able to access every single piece of content straight away and it's always been like that.

[Sir_Kurity]

My problem with your argument is that it is predicated on the notion that your opinion is shared by 100% (except for that one player who miraculously likes fishing, apparently) of the Runescape population.

 

Did i ever say 100% shared my opinion?

 

In other words, you are trying to argue that your opinion holds more weight than anyone else's.

 

I'm arguing that the majoritys opinion holds more weight than anyone elses.

 

Does the majority think training fishing for 200 hours is fun, I'l pretty dam sure they don't, and incase you feel like nitpicking some more i made a poll to find out.

 

However, my opinion has more basis in reality, as it only makes sense that, someday, Runescape quests will have requirements in the 90s.

 

Yes im aware jagex is probably going to increase grind, thats not going to stop me from arguing against it for the good of the game.

 

Furthermore, as other posters have explained, mythological heroes have always had to utilize various skills to complete their endeavors.

 

Theres no reason it can't be done with 60 fishing instead of 97 fishing. It may or may not make slightly less sense, but hey, reducing excessive grind is better for the game in my book.

 

You think Runescape should be different, but your only argument is that you don't want to raise your skills

 

I'm pretty sure my argument is that it doesnt improve the game in anyway.

 

Random 97+ skill requirements don't improve the game in any way. Excessive grind does not improve the game in anyway, all they do is make high levels feel special about themselves.

 

As i said...

 

I guess the main argument comes down as to weather you think grandmaster quests should have random arbitary 100-200+ hour grind requirements just for the sake of exclusivity. I don't think so, you people obviously do.

 

which is a perfect example of "pure syndrome" (it's a stereotype that pures often want things they can't have due to their handicaps, so they complain).

 

:), i knew this would come up.

 

As a pure, who actually skills far more often than doing combat ironically enough, the main barrier for pures is the quest rewards, specifically defence rewards. Personally i think they should stay (some things like 1 def turmoil claw rushers with b-gloves are just too overpowered to think about :ohnoes:)

 

tl;dr - you're lazy.

 

tl;dr, i want the game to be as fun as possible. 97 fishing requirements don't add to that fun.

 

Where did I claim that 100% of people like fishing? :rolleyes:

 

Yea, and where did i claim that 100% of people hated fishing, as i said, equally flawed logic.

[Sir_Kurity]

Skill requirements have always been a part of how the difficulty of a quest is gauged, the best way to increase the difficulty of a quest is to increase the skill requirement. I don't feel this is unfair, not everyone will be able to access every single piece of content straight away and it's always been like that.

 

The best way to increase the difficulty of a quest is to make harder bosses, harder puzzles, etc.

 

Excessive requirements do nothing but increase the preliminary grind before the quest, while adding nothing to the actual content.

[Obtaurian]

Being sure of something is not the same as knowing it. You'll have to somehow prove (an impossible endeavor) that the majority of the Runescape population agrees that training any particular skill past 90 inherently lacks fun. If you can, I will concede that your opinion holds more weight than mine (or anyone else's).

 

To conclude this petty argument over opinions (of which yours have flawed logic, as I've explained), I'll quote SirHartlar, who explained in two sentences something that I've been trying to explain for three pages or so.

 

If people don't have the level they have a choice, either train their skills or don't do the quest. It seems quite simple to me,

[SirHartlar]

Skill requirements have always been a part of how the difficulty of a quest is gauged, the best way to increase the difficulty of a quest is to increase the skill requirement. I don't feel this is unfair, not everyone will be able to access every single piece of content straight away and it's always been like that.

 

The best way to increase the difficulty of a quest is to make harder bosses, harder puzzles, etc.

 

Excessive requirements do nothing but increase the preliminary grind before the quest, while adding nothing to the actual content.

 

This is an MMORPG you are playing, grinding is an aspect of the game that is always going to be there. I don't think it is necessarily fair for Jagex to avoid putting out elite quests just because the majority of people won't be able to do it.

[ho3f3l]

Sir Kurity

 

you find quests fun, i do as well

 

you think that requiring some higher level takes the fun out, i dont.

 

you think that some level 60 or 70 in any skill should be enough for all quests, i disagree... when we aproach some end of storylines and we meet some genious devices ploted by some masterminds from the pass (of Runescape) i think that should indeed require higher levels to complete, or were they just that weak, that anyone could just beat them?

 

do i think that quests should jump their higher actual requiremnt, of 70? 80? directly to 97, no i dont think so, but as more grandmasters quests or special quests, and perhaps a new category of quests are released, the levels to complete them should as well.

 

 

Now let me change completly my point of view, imagine that i simply hate lets say Agility, why in the hell i need to traing agility till 69 to be able to complete all quests? i find it boring to train and so i think jagex shouldnt release that kind of requirement to quests, but you say that around 70's its ok? why is it?

[Den]

Skill requirements have always been a part of how the difficulty of a quest is gauged, the best way to increase the difficulty of a quest is to increase the skill requirement. I don't feel this is unfair, not everyone will be able to access every single piece of content straight away and it's always been like that.

 

The best way to increase the difficulty of a quest is to make harder bosses, harder puzzles, etc.

 

Excessive requirements do nothing but increase the preliminary grind before the quest, while adding nothing to the actual content.

 

Well, you want harder bosses and puzzles right. You find fishing boring. So if its boring, im guessing its hard for you to train fishing because you dont have much motivation to do it.

So if you follow this logic, having a high fishing requirement would make the quest "harder" to start. Yeah, the quest itself wouldn't be harder, but it would be harder getting it.

 

Il take my slayer grind for the cape example from earlier. You like doing quests, lets say quests are the reward. you have to grind to get your reward like with most things in Runescape.

I have to grind slayer for my reward, the cape. Makes sence right?

 

Random 97+ skill requirements don't improve the game in any way. Excessive grind does not improve the game in anyway, all they do is make high levels feel special about themselves.

 

I dont feel special when I have the requirements to do a quest. And besides, skill requirements give people something to aim for. Requirements for quests usualy have something to do with the quests anyway.

[Riemis]

This discussion isn't going anywhere, imo >_>

[CaJ]

This discussion isn't going anywhere, imo >_>

 

Thus, is why I'm not getting involved in this discussion.

[Low C]

This discussion isn't going anywhere, imo >_>

 

Thus, is why I'm not getting involved in this discussion.

 

You aren't exactly adding much to the discussion by posting then. :rolleyes:

 

Ontopic: Now the the quest has been released do you guys think the upgraded Void Armour is a must have for the average scaper?

[MstrMonopoly]

This discussion isn't going anywhere, imo >_>

 

Thus, is why I'm not getting involved in this discussion.

 

You aren't exactly adding much to the discussion by posting then. :rolleyes:

 

Ontopic: Now the the quest has been released do you guys think the upgraded Void Armour is a must have for the average scaper?

 

It's great for chinning and TDing mostly, as well as for people who play DPS roles at Bandos or Zammy.

[Sir_Kurity]

So if you follow this logic, having a high fishing requirement would make the quest "harder" to start. Yeah, the quest itself wouldn't be harder, but it would be harder getting it.

 

I guess it comes down as to weather it will improve the game.

 

Requireing 200 hours of fishing grind is not the kind of "hard" im looking for in a grandmaster quest. An epic boss battle is the kind of hard im looking for.

 

I dont feel special when I have the requirements to do a quest.

 

So they don't even achieve that.

 

When you look at it, excessive requirements don't really acheive anything.

 

Requirements for quests usualy have something to do with the quests anyway.

 

Theres no reason it cant be 60, etc.

 

Only difference is, 60 doesnt require insanely excessive grind to the point of insanity.

 

Being sure of something is not the same as knowing it. You'll have to somehow prove (an impossible endeavor) that the majority of the Runescape population agrees that training any particular skill past 90 inherently lacks fun.

 

I'm not even going to bother answering because your just nitpicking at this point.

 

"LOLOLOL PROVE IT OR YOUR WRONG"

 

All im going to say is that excessive requirements don't make the game any more fun, even if, god forbid people actually had fun fishing for 200 hours.

 

And if the majority of runescape players actually like watching the fisherman bob up and down for 200 hours, i'm going to have to question the mental health of my fellow player.

[SirHartlar]

Like I said before, it's an MMORPG. The game revolves around grinding, that's just the nature of the game. If people didn't enjoy it they wouldn't play it.

[Sir_Kurity]

Like I said before, it's an MMORPG. The game revolves around grinding, that's just the nature of the game. If people didn't enjoy it they wouldn't play it.

 

Theres a different between some grinding, and watching your fisher man move up and down for 200 hours with minimal interaction on your part.

 

Now tell me, does that 200 hour grind improve the game? Thats all im asking here.

 

I mean, people always call WoW a grindfest, but a single skill to 97, of which people are suggesting a quest requirement. Takes more time than it takes to max out in WoW.

[Michael]

Was a little disappointed with the quest. Let's see how the rest of the updates fare.

[SirHartlar]

Like I said before, it's an MMORPG. The game revolves around grinding, that's just the nature of the game. If people didn't enjoy it they wouldn't play it.

 

Theres a different between some grinding, and watching your fisher man move up and down for 200 hours with minimal interaction on your part.

 

Now tell me, does that 200 hour grind improve the game? Thats all im asking here.

 

I mean, people always call WoW a grindfest, but a single skill to 97, of which people are suggesting a quest requirement. Takes more time than it takes to max out in WoW.

 

I personally wouldn't suggest a 97 skill requirement, but hovering around the 90s to me seems fair. I know you think having a high skill requirement is pointless because it just serves to fuel the ego of an elite player, but honestly there isn't much reward for having extremely high level skills with regards to questing. Jagex can't just release very powerful high level weaponry as it would possibly unbalance the game, but having high level requirements goes some way to alleviating the lack of rewards out there for high levelled players in my opinion, as it means you need high skill levels to have the reward.

[Den]

I dont feel special when I have the requirements to do a quest.

 

So they don't even achieve that.

 

When you look at it, excessive requirements don't really acheive anything.

 

I probably feel that way because having 80 magic (current highest quest requirement) doesn't feel special to me in any way.

If there was any requirements for quests worth calling high leveled, I might feel different.

 

Only difference is, 60 doesnt require insanely excessive grind to the point of insanity.

 

Do *we* as in the general population of runescape, want everyone to be able to do everything with minimal "work" for it though. Should everyone be able to run all over runescape at 60 combat and most skills in the low 70's.

Is it a good idea for a quest cape to be "that noob cape everyone has". Now I get it your more focused on lore then on items or rewards, I am too when it comes to quests. Thing is though, quests give people something to work towards if the requirements are higher then their current levels.

My real life friends see a new quest come out and go "oh, sweet. I only need this and this level before I can do that!" It gives a motivational factor while "grinding those hours on end".

Yes, 97 fishing is very extreme as a quest requirement, but the requirements have to keep going up slowly as skills get easier to train.

 

Should 97 fishing be a requirement for the next big quest? No.

Will a 97 skill ever be a quest requirement? Who knows. Maybe someday exp will be so fast, 99 skills wont be special and 120 will be the new 99 of our age. Only jagex know the answer to this.

[stonewall337]

I don't see what is wrong with "exclusive" content, that only higher levels/skillers can get. It gives those of us with just about everything a goal to aim for.

[Sir_Kurity]

I personally wouldn't suggest a 97 skill requirement, but hovering around the 90s to me seems fair. I know you think having a high skill requirement is pointless because it just serves to fuel the ego of an elite player, but honestly there isn't much reward for having extremely high level skills with regards to questing.

 

Lack of high level content is another issue altogethor.

 

To be honest though, hard quests would give something for high levels to do. As a high level you can beat boss fights without as much fear of dieing as someone who is a lower level.

 

I don't see what is wrong with "exclusive" content, that only higher levels/skillers can get. It gives those of us with just about everything a goal to aim for.

 

So basically you wan't high level content for the sake of exclusvity.

 

I'm glad someones being honest for once, you, as a near maxed player, want exclusive quests that few others can do, so you can feel special.

 

Though my must ask you this question, is a quest any more fun if it requires 90+ requirements than if it requires 60+ requirements. - Its the same quest, with the same bosses, with the same puzzles, same everything, only the grind requirement is significantly lower.

 

In other words, its the same level of fun, the only difference being that you can feel special about having your 90+ skills that take maybe 100-200+ hours to get. Now is this a fully justifiable reason for having incredibly high requirements? I can't answer this, what i can say is that it won't improve the actual content, and thus the game, in any way.

 

I probably feel that way because having 80 magic (current highest quest requirement) doesn't feel special to me in any way.

If there was any requirements for quests worth calling high leveled, I might feel different.

 

Wait wait wait a second... I said this...

 

Random 97+ skill requirements don't improve the game in any way. Excessive grind does not improve the game in anyway, all they do is make high levels feel special about themselves.

 

You said this...

 

I dont feel special when I have the requirements to do a quest.

 

I said this...

 

So they don't even achieve that.

 

And then you say this...

 

I probably feel that way because having 80 magic (current highest quest requirement) doesn't feel special to me in any way.

If there was any requirements for quests worth calling high leveled, I might feel different.

 

So basically, we are back at the starting point. All high requirements do is make high level "elite" players, feel special because they have a greater tolerance for 200 hours of boredom than most other players.

[Obtaurian]

Don't worry, Sir Kurity - when quests with 90+ requirements start popping up in the next couple years, I'm sure there'll be plenty of quest summaries for you to read. :thumbup:

[Sir_Kurity]

Don't worry, Sir Kurity - when quests with 90+ requirements start popping up in the next couple years, I'm sure there'll be plenty of quest summaries for you to read. :thumbup:

 

Hopefully jagex never releases 90+ quest requirements just so the high levels can feel special. :thumbup:

[Bladewing]

yea jagex should ban those meanie high level nasties

 

make more quests for level 3s

[Obtaurian]

Don't worry, Sir Kurity - when quests with 90+ requirements start popping up in the next couple years, I'm sure there'll be plenty of quest summaries for you to read. :thumbup:

 

Hopefully jagex never releases 90+ quest requirements just so the high levels can feel special. :thumbup:

 

Lol, resorting to the "yer a high level so [bleep] you" argument? I think we can see where this is going. :rolleyes:

[ho3f3l]

Some players might say:

 

Having medium requirements (20's isnt that bad though) don't actually add anything to the game outside forcing grind, so why should they be there?

 

You say:

 

Having excessive requirements (70's isnt that bad though) don't actually add anything to the game outside forcing grind, so why should they be there?

 

Others like me say:

 

Having high requirements (around 90's) can actually bring content to the game. Like many examples used before on this thread.

 

Now why does we think in a different way?

Most i think it's because some people just want to be able to do anything without much effort, that everything is granted to them, others don't.

I myself feel an different joy when something is added to the game and i still can't do it, it makes the whole path till i complete a fun and enjoying one.

I also think that some storylines must deserve some high requirements as we meet some special charaters of Runescape history.