1st October, 2010: Behind the Scenes - October

[Sir_Kurity]

Anyways, it sounds like a whole bunch of sour grapes to me...

 

Throwing in arbitary quest requirements just so high levels can feel special sounds like a bunch of sour grapes to me.

 

Basically, I don't think a fishing requirement in the 90 range (although 97 is maybe a bit excessive... but then again, there is admiral pie) would be terrible for a quest where you had to catch a magic fish (for some reason or another).

 

Theres no reason that magic fish couldnt be caught with 60 fishing. The fishing requirement is just there to make the quest "exclusive" and force people to grind for 100 hours if they want to do a quest.

 

Anything past 90 is way excessive for the average player. A quest lover should be able to quests without excessive grinding. If jagex threw in a level 97 quest requirement, the quest lover would have to excessively grind.

 

The grinding is there for those who want it, you can grind your way to 97 fishing all you want. But don't try and push your grind onto other players.

[Bladewing]

ya all quests shud b e-z and i shud b abul 2 do dem rite now bcuz we pay we say old wildy bak

 

y shud i hav 2 play for dat long like nerds wit no life lol?? :thumbsup:

[Glove]

 

Basically, I don't think a fishing requirement in the 90 range (although 97 is maybe a bit excessive... but then again, there is admiral pie) would be terrible for a quest where you had to catch a magic fish (for some reason or another).

 

Theres no reason that magic fish couldnt be caught with 60 fishing. The fishing requirement is just there to make the quest "exclusive" and force people to grind for 100 hours if they want to do a quest.

 

Anything past 90 is way excessive for the average player. A quest lover should be able to quests without excessive grinding. If jagex threw in a level 97 quest requirement, the quest lover would have to excessively grind.

 

The grinding is there for those who want it, you can grind your way to 97 fishing all you want. But don't try and push your grind onto other players.

 

If it were a legendary magic fish that many skilled fishermen had tried and failed to catch it would be entirely stupid for it to be caught with lvl 60 fishing. It just wouldn't be reasonable to believe that the pinnacle of fishing ability and skill in Runescape would be equated with lvl 60.

 

If players don't want to grind they don't have to; you're absolutely right about that. That said, if you want to do a quest and you don't have the required levels then you can't do the quest. It's as simple as that. It's not you or me who decides quest requirements, it's Jagex; I'm not pushing any kind of grind (I've been playing RS for nine years and I only have four 99s, so I don't think I'm in danger of 'grinding' any time soon... I'm more the slow burn sort) on anyone. I'm just saying it wouldn't be unreasonable to have a quest at some point in the future that did have extremely high requirements. I think there could be reasons within the narrative of the quest for that high lvl requirement that evolved naturally from the tasks that needed to be accomplished.

 

And, as I mentioned before, any avid quester understands a need to be well rounded in skills. I'm not exactly a fan of agility or hunting or construction or runecrafting, but I take my lumps and level them (slowly, to be sure) because I know a quest always comes that raises the level requirements beyond what they currently are. That's just the way it is. If a quest came out tomorrow that required lvl 90 hunter I wouldn't be able to do it (for a long, long time); but fair enough, I would work on my hunting lvl until I could do it at my own pace.

 

Not everyone can do the elite diaries. I can't do most of the elite diaries. Does that mean they shouldn't exist? Things that are out of reach in the present just give people goals to shoot for; no one is forcing anyone to do everything in the game. People still get to decide what their goals are for themselves. A quest with extremely high lvl requirements wouldn't change that.

[Sir_Kurity]

ya all quests shud b e-z and i shud b abul 2 do dem rite now bcuz we pay we say old wildy bak

 

y shud i hav 2 play for dat long like nerds wit no life lol?? :thumbsup:

 

When did i ever imply quests should be easy.

 

Not to mention requirements wont make a quest ANY HARDER. A hard quest makes a hard quest, hard requirements make a hard grind.

 

Not everyone can do the elite diaries. I can't do most of the elite diaries. Does that mean they shouldn't exist? Things that are out of reach in the present just give people goals to shoot for; no one is forcing anyone to do everything in the game. People still get to decide what their goals are for themselves. A quest with extremely high lvl requirements wouldn't change that.

 

Achievement diarys are completely different.

 

Running around lighting fires is not content, or not content anyone should care about outside the reward. A hard grandmaster quest IS content.

 

An avid quester should not be compelled to grind fishing for 200 hours for an arbitary quest requirement, thats the bottom line.

 

I'm just saying it wouldn't be unreasonable to have a quest at some point in the future that did have extremely high requirements.

 

Unless, as someone else said. They slowly, and i mean slowly move up. It wouldn't be too bad.

 

EG, 70 fishing, then 73, then 80, then 85, then 90, then 91 92 93 94 95, 96, and then quests that need 97. So there is constant content along the way to 97 fishing without it being a 200 hour grindfest for a single quest requirement.

 

(really, past 90 levels are so apart anything past 2 levels is a grind).

 

And, as I mentioned before, any avid quester understands a need to be well rounded in skills.

 

Thats because you are forced to be well rounded in skills you may not even enjoy, in order to do quests that you do enjoy.

 

That's just the way it is.

 

Hardly a legitimate argument. "Its just the way it is" is no justification for something bad.

 

Nonetheless, as i said. I'm generally speaking, relatively fine with current requirements. But anything thats past the 90's turns a game into a grind.

[Bladewing]

which is easier

 

to do a quest you have the requirements for

 

or

 

to do a quest you do not have the requirements for

 

--

 

whence came the notion that one is entitled to access all parts of runescape with 60 stats? if a quest came out that required 95 fishing you could just, ya know, not do the quest.

[Will H]

I just find the idea of a quest that requires level 97 fishing, with no intermediate step between that and the current quest with the highest fishing requirements to suffer the worst thing that a piece of content in an MMO can ever have. It's boring. I don't mind training fishing if it's regularly punctuated with interesting content, be that other quests or actually useful abilities, but to only train fishing for days cannot constitute any sort of enjoyment for those who level their characters in a balanced way, which is very common amongst people who enjoy quests. It just goes against the grain of the difficulty curve of all of the previous quests.

 

I say it's fine for Jagex to aspire to have a quest with 97 fishing as a requirement, but they know that they need to make that journey to 97 fishing enjoyable.

[Obtaurian]

Thank you to everyone who explained my argument much more clearly and eloquently than I have (especially Glove for providing examples in real mythology). Seeing as how the only argument left to dismantle seems to be "but they'd have to build up to it," I'll reiterate that, yes, they SHOULD build up to it. I've already said that. Multiple times.

[MstrMonopoly]

All this being said, I don't think we need any more low-level quests. Let's tie the existing chains up first.

[Will H]

All this being said, I don't think we need any more low-level quests. Let's tie the existing chains up first.

 

Agreed. There are enough Novice, Intermediate, and Experienced quests. If you compare the lists on the game guide, quests are definitely biased towards easier, shorter quests, which does mean that the experience of questing does lose its shine at higher levels. I think Jagex knows this too.

[999134]

Setting skills like 80 magic for a quest is like setting a combat requirement of 120 for jad, it limits different types of accounts from completing the quest, what need is there for 80 magic if the quest is completable without it(which all quests are >.>), you are limiting accounts that do not want to train magic because it would raise their combat level.

My real problem with quest requirements is levels that require levels that are impossible for certain accounts to reach, if i want to do wgs with 1 attack/strength/magic/range why should I not be able to? I am limiting myself but by persistence I can complete the quest anyway (by finding ways around it such as using summoning).

Sure set a 97 fishing requirement but please leave out the 75 magic to enchant a uber special door which adds nothing to the quest.

[Den]

Setting skills like 80 magic for a quest is like setting a combat requirement of 120 for jad, it limits different types of accounts from completing the quest, what need is there for 80 magic if the quest is completable without it(which all quests are >.>), you are limiting accounts that do not want to train magic because it would raise their combat level.

My real problem with quest requirements is levels that require levels that are impossible for certain accounts to reach, if i want to do wgs with 1 attack/strength/magic/range why should I not be able to? I am limiting myself but by persistence I can complete the quest anyway (by finding ways around it such as using summoning).

Sure set a 97 fishing requirement but please leave out the 75 magic to enchant a uber special door which adds nothing to the quest.

 

Jagex said at RuneFest that if a person decides to not play parts of the game, its their choice. They would however not cater updates around this factor.

[Troacctid]

Thank you to everyone who explained my argument much more clearly and eloquently than I have (especially Glove for providing examples in real mythology). Seeing as how the only argument left to dismantle seems to be "but they'd have to build up to it," I'll reiterate that, yes, they SHOULD build up to it. I've already said that. Multiple times.

Consider the portion of the audience that most enjoys questing.

 

...Uh, I forgot what else I was going to say.

[Aneron]

Setting skills like 80 magic for a quest is like setting a combat requirement of 120 for jad, it limits different types of accounts from completing the quest, what need is there for 80 magic if the quest is completable without it(which all quests are >.>), you are limiting accounts that do not want to train magic because it would raise their combat level.

My real problem with quest requirements is levels that require levels that are impossible for certain accounts to reach, if i want to do wgs with 1 attack/strength/magic/range why should I not be able to? I am limiting myself but by persistence I can complete the quest anyway (by finding ways around it such as using summoning).

Sure set a 97 fishing requirement but please leave out the 75 magic to enchant a uber special door which adds nothing to the quest.

 

what is the difference between needing 80 magic to imbue a door, and 87 magic to imbue a piece of onyx jewelry?

 

why should your 1 magic pure be allowed to do this quest if my 1 fishing pure isn't? I understand that it's important to you to keep your combat level low, but it is equally important to me that I keep my pure's overall level low so that when I enter skilling competitions with other players I'm able to take them by surprise, the same way that you use summoning to take players by surprise

[jsboutin2]

Anyways, pures deliberately chose not to be able to enjoy the whole content of the game.

 

Quests are supposed to be for well-rounded players, the others just have to train.

[Sir_Kurity]

Thank you to everyone who explained my argument much more clearly and eloquently than I have (especially Glove for providing examples in real mythology).

 

No, the argument is we shouldn't be compelled into a 200 hour grind just because we like quests, which is actually a fun part of the game.

 

And the other argument, you don't need "elite" (really, if you consider 200 hours of grind elite...) requirements, in order to have elite content.

 

Really, your just throwing in arbitrary requirements for the sake of exclusivity.

 

Seeing as how the only argument left to dismantle seems to be "but they'd have to build up to it," I'll reiterate that, yes, they SHOULD build up to it. I've already said that. Multiple times.

 

Going from 70 to 90 is not building up to it.

 

You and all the other high levels constantly complain about no high requirements, they havent got to that point yet, and i sincerely hope they never get to that point.

 

whence came the notion that one is entitled to access all parts of runescape with 60 stats? if a quest came out that required 95 fishing you could just, ya know, not do the quest.

 

Wheres the notion that you should have to grind 200 hours to enjoy the fun parts of the game.

 

A little grind is fine, 200 hours of hardcore fishing grind is not fun.

 

As this guy who i don't know said.

 

But seriously, there is no reason why I should have to cut ~3.7k logs just so I can attain a certain level so I can start a quest. I want to play the fun parts of Runescape without the grind.

[Obtaurian]

Seeing as how the only argument left to dismantle seems to be "but they'd have to build up to it," I'll reiterate that, yes, they SHOULD build up to it. I've already said that. Multiple times.

Going from 70 to 90 is not building up to it.

 

Yeah . . . obviously. What's your point?

[Bladewing]

whence came the notion that one is entitled to access all parts of runescape with 60 stats? if a quest came out that required 95 fishing you could just, ya know, not do the quest.

 

Wheres the notion that you should have to grind 200 hours to enjoy the fun parts of the game.

 

A little grind is fine, 200 hours of hardcore fishing grind is not fun.

you are not entitled to play that part of the game. if you don't want to grind for it that's your choice.

 

you are not entitled to a diploma without 4 years of grinding your studies

 

you are not entitled to a new car without grinding your job for some money

[Sir_Kurity]

Seeing as how the only argument left to dismantle seems to be "but they'd have to build up to it," I'll reiterate that, yes, they SHOULD build up to it. I've already said that. Multiple times.

Going from 70 to 90 is not building up to it.

 

Yeah . . . obviously. What's your point?

 

My point was 1 line below.

 

you are not entitled to play that part of the game. if you don't want to grind for it that's your choice.

 

you are not entitled to a diploma without 4 years of grinding your studies

 

you are not entitled to a new car without grinding your job for some money

 

You lost me as soon as you compared a game to real life.

 

You have fun in a game. Life is just... life.

[Obtaurian]

You and all the other high levels constantly complain about no high requirements, they havent got to that point yet, and i sincerely hope they never get to that point.

 

Oh, I see. You want Jagex to coddle you and hand you free stuff. Here, I'll do something similar:

 

"JUBILEX IT'S NOT FAIR. Corpy beast won't drop a divine sigil for me, so raise the drop rate to 1/5. k thankz i'd hate 2 hav to grind 200 hours for one@@"

[Bladewing]

having a degree and getting a nice job is fun

 

having a nice car is fun

 

i don't know about you, but some people actually have fun in life

 

an hero if you don't

[Range_This11]

Anyways, it sounds like a whole bunch of sour grapes to me...

 

Throwing in arbitary quest requirements just so high levels can feel special sounds like a bunch of sour grapes to me.

 

Basically, I don't think a fishing requirement in the 90 range (although 97 is maybe a bit excessive... but then again, there is admiral pie) would be terrible for a quest where you had to catch a magic fish (for some reason or another).

 

Theres no reason that magic fish couldnt be caught with 60 fishing. The fishing requirement is just there to make the quest "exclusive" and force people to grind for 100 hours if they want to do a quest.

 

Anything past 90 is way excessive for the average player. A quest lover should be able to quests without excessive grinding. If jagex threw in a level 97 quest requirement, the quest lover would have to excessively grind.

 

The grinding is there for those who want it, you can grind your way to 97 fishing all you want. But don't try and push your grind onto other players.

I don't think you even understand what the phrase "sour grapes" means, because your usage of it doesn't make any sense. And that second quote isn't even from me, so thanks for the misquote. You don't address any of the points I made except for an off-hand remark I added at the end of my post. You are simply too damn lazy to train your skills. Instead of wasting your time complaining about how requirements are too high, why don't you go out and train like the rest of the players do. Not everything can be spoon-fed.

[PereGrin]

Seeing as how the only argument left to dismantle seems to be "but they'd have to build up to it," I'll reiterate that, yes, they SHOULD build up to it. I've already said that. Multiple times.

Going from 70 to 90 is not building up to it.

 

Yeah . . . obviously. What's your point?

 

My point was 1 line below.

 

you are not entitled to play that part of the game. if you don't want to grind for it that's your choice.

 

you are not entitled to a diploma without 4 years of grinding your studies

 

you are not entitled to a new car without grinding your job for some money

 

You lost me as soon as you compared a game to real life.

 

You have fun in a game. Life is just... life.

It is a requirement of the game that you be alive to play it. And there is no reason that you should be entitled to anything without putting in the work for it.

 

You are not entitled to use a whip until you have 70 attack.

 

You are not entitled to use chaotic until you grind some dg lvls.

 

You are not entitled to fish rocktail until you grind some fishing.

 

You are not entitled to wear agile clothing until you grind some agility.

 

You are not entitled to have anything without working for it, in game or out of it.

 

Why then are you arguing that questing should remain easy, that you should not have to actually train your character to do quests. This game is based on training skills. If you whine that you can't do certain things without training your skills, you will be told to train your skills up.

 

I hate mining, but I am currently training it anyway, because it is a integral part of the game, and my character is unable to do things that I want to do without higher mining.

 

Ditto for woodcutting. But I recently jumped 600k wc ranks, just so I could get the level to finish a quest.

 

Questing should not be easy, and it should take levels that are harder to get. This encourages people to continue training levels, even when they would normally stop. What you seem to be saying is that you would prefer to start on a level 3, and just begin questing right from the start, and be able to get the helm of trials and quest cape without any additional training. This is silly. Training your skills is a huge part of the game, and quests are created in order that you may use these skills that you got in order to have some fun.

 

The quests in runescape are very good. Many other MMOs have quest like: kill X number of monsters/bosses and bring Y item back to me for a reward. If you want quests that don't require any skills to finish, go play one of these MMOs.

[Danqazmlp]

People are forgetting that quests are part of the lore and stoyline of the game and are not items made with skills. Quests are for people to enjoy taking part in. If you want to skill you can skill. If you want to quest, you have to...skill. Quests should be completable without having to skill to abnormal levels, but it should help, just as having high combat helps in other parts of the game.

 

Also, it may sound blunt, but quests make the game more than skills do.

[stonewall337]

LOL at everyone bashing Squisher for being good at MHing.

 

well the main point of my post was to show that now we have the luxury of all these things, back when i first killed nomad i had none of that, things like rapier werent out

 

if i were to kill nomad now it would be a hell of alot eaiser than when i did it on day 1

 

thats why the newest grandmaster quest boss should be much harder, since theres much better stuff available now

 

 

True, if this quest is hard because of boss. I'd much rather have another WGS with an easier boss but far more intense story line.

 

Danz, I'd be more inclined to agree if we had more completed story lines, instead of so many half-assed (and half finished) ones. (Buyers and cellars, blood pact)

[Great_one]

People are forgetting that quests are part of the lore and stoyline of the game and are not items made with skills. Quests are for people to enjoy taking part in. If you want to skill you can skill. If you want to quest, you have to...skill. Quests should be completable without having to skill to abnormal levels, but it should help, just as having high combat helps in other parts of the game.

 

Also, it may sound blunt, but quests make the game more than skills do.

the way you are saying it makes it seem like a quest should only be about lore. if thats what they are supposed to be then they might as well be a wall of text. A quest is a journey through the game, sometime for back story, sometimes not. If you disagree please tell me what cooks assistant has to do with any sort of conceivable plot line. During most journeys some form of SKILL is required to complete a task, do you think Odysseus would have been able to fight off 20+ suitors with an attack level anywhere below 65? no! not a chance! So needing 80 mage to unravel the secrets of a mystically bound door is quite the fair thing to ask.