More USA documents get released by Wikileaks

[Skeptical]

I have a sneaking suspicion we will disagree on this, but I don't believe the government's job is to be secretive and withhold information from its people. I know diplomacy is rooted in secrecy and deception but that doesn't make it right.

At best it's a necessary evil.

This.

 

I believe a government should be honest and transparent....insofar as it's possible to do so without compromising national security.

 

I would agree but for one issue: who gets to decide at what point the information is compromising national security? Look at the changes in the US since 9/11: they're scary as hell, and all done in the name of preserving the security of the country. I for one don't wish to trade my freedom for safety, or wish to impose my own opinions of what an acceptable trade is on others.

[obfuscator]

Well, obviously that's a difficult question to answer, because you have to tell people in order to make that judgement.

[obfuscator]

Not really. I hate to say it, but the general population/average voter is pretty uninformed, and doesn't really look at the bigger picture.

 

Governments are generally made up of the most intelligent citizens (obviously some exceptions) and I guess it's a personal thing but I do trust them to usually make the right decisions.

[Range_This11]

There is far too much corruption in Washington for me to ever trust them to make the right decision. If they can disguise the truth enough to get away with it, they will. It has happened countless times.

[The Dark Lord]

Whoever is leaking should be tried for treason.

 

And hanged.

[Dupin]

Whoever is leaking should be tried for treason.

 

And hanged.

Honestly, it's cases like these that make me wonder why we ever outlawed drawing and quartering.

[magekillr]

Whoever is leaking should be tried for treason.

 

And hanged.

 

So you would have opposed the release of something like the Pentagon Papers?

 

If we're so afraid of these truths to make hard decisions that people are actively calling for the death of people, then there's something seriously wrong with that society.

 

Among the leaks of "no [cabbage]," we have the Drug War being an abysmal failure.

 

We could eliminate much of the power of these cartels overnight by simply creating a legal system for growing, selling, and consuming marijuana in this country. Alcohol consumption has ungodly costs for our society, but would you trade the status quo for a black market in alcohol that brought associated violence and instability throughout our society and throughout Mexico?

 

As U.S. diplomats publicly praised "unprecedented cooperation" from Mexico in the fight against the drug cartels, they privately worried that poorly trained Mexican soldiers and a federal police force hobbled by corruption were failing to slow the surging violence...

...Meanwhile, the U.S. diplomats and law enforcement personnel at the embassy summed up the drug-trafficking organizations as "sophisticated players: they can wait out a military deployment; they have an almost unlimited human resource pool to draw from in the marginalized neighborhoods; and they can fan complaints about human rights violations to undermine any progress the military might make with hearts and minds."

 

The memos asserted that some Mexican officials were equally fearful about the direction of the drug war.

 

One dated Oct. 5, 2009, warned that a top security official had "expressed a real concern with 'losing' certain regions" of the country and warned that "pervasive, debilitating fear" was settling into the countryside.

WikiLeaks cables reveal U.S. concern over Mexico's ability to fight drug cartels

[Naraku893]

More power to Assange. They will not be able to keep the site down. I am on it right now- so many mirrors :thumbup:

[The Dark Lord]

2 magekillr

 

These people committed treason against the government. They should be punished and made an example of.

 

You do not question the government because it is the will of the People.

[Naraku893]

2 magekillr

 

These people committed treason against the government. They should be punished and made an example of.

 

You do not question the government because it is the will of the People.

 

 

No, people need to know the truth. The US government has been lieing too long.

[Naraku893]

They should stop releasing war documents and leak the old classified UFO documents. I'd much rather read through that.

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40491489/ns/us_news-wikileaks_in_security/

[The Dark Lord]

2 magekillr

 

These people committed treason against the government. They should be punished and made an example of.

 

You do not question the government because it is the will of the People.

 

 

No, people need to know the truth. The US government has been lieing too long.

 

Our laws prevent the government from lying.

[Naraku893]

2 magekillr

 

These people committed treason against the government. They should be punished and made an example of.

 

You do not question the government because it is the will of the People.

 

 

No, people need to know the truth. The US government has been lieing too long.

 

Our laws prevent the government from lying.

 

Guess they are breaking the law then. The US government is behind the fake charges of rape against Julian Assange. There are articles on it.

[Dupin]

This just in: New top-secret Wikileaks documents reveal that Andvari is some sort of dwarf that can turn into a fish. That, or a troll ;)

[Bloodstain]

and I guess it's a personal thing but I do trust them to usually make the right decisions.

 

Like issuing a media black out on the outcome of the Gulf Oil spill! The burning of skin, passing out, bleeding throats, peeling skin, busting red blood cells leading to bleeding out of holes in the body that shouldn't bleed, and pushing liability of tainted fish on the fishermen!

 

e: Also lol at America criticizing Mexico on the "war on drugs"

 

and double lol

¶7. © Below the surface of military professionalism, there is also considerable tension between SEDENA and SEMAR. SEMAR succeeded in the take down of Arturo Beltran Leyva, as well as with other major targets. Aside from the perceived failure of its mission in Juarez, SEDENA has come to be seen slow and risk averse even where it should succeed: the mission to capture HVTs. The risk is that the more SEDENA is criticized, the more risk averse it will become. The challenge you face in the DBWG is to convince them that modernization and not withdrawal are the way forward, and that transparency and accountability are fundamental to modernization. There is no alternative in today’s world of information technology.

 

 

 

 

 

e: Germany suspects USA putting Afghan funds from allies in to the US Treasury

 

The US military has been charging its allies a 15% handling fee on hundreds of millions of dollars being raised internationally to build up the Afghan army. Germany has threatened to cancel contributions.

 

According to a protest to the US from Germany's ambassador to Nato this year, Berlin raised questions about the fate of €50m (£42m) it dispensed last year as the biggest contribution to a "trust fund" for the Afghan national army.

 

In protests in Berlin, Brussels, and Washington last February the German government demanded to know what was happening to the money, why earmarked projects were not going ahead and why the US military was taking 15%.

 

...

 

"As of today no project financing has occurred," the Germans said on 3 February. In violation of the agreement setting up the contribution the money had then gone to the US treasury "including assignment of the US army corps of engineers and an administrative fee of 15%" .

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/dec/02/germany-us-afghan-funds-wikileaks

[The Dark Lord]

If the government was really breaking the law, US citizens would have revolted by now.

 

Because they haven't revolted, the US regime is the will of the People.

[Bloodstain]

If the government was really breaking the law, US citizens would have revolted by now.

 

Because they haven't revolted, the US regime is the will of the People.

 

 

Lol you give too much credit to the American population

[Giordano]

If the government was really breaking the law, US citizens would have revolted by now.

 

Because they haven't revolted, the US regime is the will of the People.

Whoa...

 

You do not understand revolution.

[The Dark Lord]

This just in: New top-secret Wikileaks documents reveal that Andvari is some sort of dwarf that can turn into a fish. That, or a troll

 

Nah, I was just being sarcastic towards a few people in this thread. I use this tactic a lot in political discussions when someone says something that is ridiculous, and it usually works because people forget that I do this and don't really mean a lot of what I say in political topics.

[Diesel]

They should stop releasing war documents and leak the old classified UFO documents. I'd much rather read through that.

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40491489/ns/us_news-wikileaks_in_security/

 

[bleep]. Yes.

[sees_all1]

This just in: New top-secret Wikileaks documents reveal that Andvari is some sort of dwarf that can turn into a fish. That, or a troll

 

Nah, I was just being sarcastic towards a few people in this thread. I use this tactic a lot in political discussions when someone says something that is ridiculous, and it usually works because people forget that I do this and don't really mean a lot of what I say in political topics.

 

Yep, we all appreciate your strawmen. [/sarcasm]

[Noxx]

Wow i just read through about 90% of the thread. I am safely tucked away in my bed each night not worrying about a single thing while people in the US have trouble sleeping because they do not know if the next WikiLead will result in a bomb falling on their house. I guess i can't really say much about this issue seeing as it is of no relevance to me but i can tell you how i would feel if i was American. I'd not be too happy. Sure the public have the right to know what is going on, like many people have said. But then like a few others have said, many secrets are locked up for a reason.

I just see a lot of finger pointing going on around here. US is blaming the middle east for everything and vice verca. It is good to see however that even the middle east (by that i mean Saudi Arabia, Qatar and i can'r remember the other one mentioned) are getting sick of the wars caused by the other middle easter countries. I have no hope that the war will ever come to an end but maybe this way it can be supressed a bit more.

I really thought South Africa was a screwed up place but it seems we're not as messed up. All i can do is hope and pray that whatever is spilt next with these Wikileads don't end up staining the ground with the blood of the inocent.

But like i said, i'm just an outsider looking through the window.

[Orpheus]

I think some of the documents should be leaked, but the rest of it shouldn't. Really, can any of you honestly make use of most of the documents leaked? I am aware that some people could use those documents, but still. Some of those documents are classified to protect people...

[Furah]

If the government was really breaking the law, US citizens would have revolted by now.

 

Because they haven't revolted, the US regime is the will of the People.

So long as people can live reasonably comfortably they will never do anything to alter the status quo.

[Naraku893]

They should stop releasing war documents and leak the old classified UFO documents. I'd much rather read through that.

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40491489/ns/us_news-wikileaks_in_security/

 

[bleep]. Yes.

 

Its going to be interesting I think