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Protect Prayers looked down upon


TheAncient

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At this point I think both you (xpx) and I know that arguing against something which is mostly opinion is pointless. We aren't going to convince one another whether safe pvp or pking is more fun - that's completely experiential. For example, winning a 1v19 or 1v6 hybrid 138's is lots of fun.

 

Nonetheless, we can talk about what reflects true skill. how would you respond if I brought up the point that a DM doesn't necessarily have to be at mage bank or deep wild? What if the setting were something completely different, such as an isolated area in the wild or duel arena? If you were to challenge someone to a 1v1, how realistic would it be to bring that person to MB or somewhere where other people can kill or PJ you?

 

It's interesting that you say that my view is limited to that of a safe pvp prod; is it not possible your views are limited only to that of PKing? Like I've been repeating, PKing has many limitations which do not reflect combat as a whole in Runescape.

 

Another thing: What do you claim is really so skillful about KOing?

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At this point I think both you (xpx) and I know that arguing against something which is mostly opinion is pointless. Nonetheless, how would you respond if I brought up the point that a DM doesn't necessarily have to be at mage bank or deep wild? What if the setting were something completely different, such as an isolated area in the wild or duel arena? If you were to challenge someone to a 1v1, how realistic would it be to bring that person to MB or somewhere where other people can kill or PJ you?

 

It's interesting that you say that my view is limited to that of a safe pvp prod; is it not possible your views are limited only to that of PKing? Like I've been repeating, PKing has many limitations which do not reflect combat as a whole in Runescape.

Safe pvp is newschool, pking is oldschool. The whole question of who is better at combat came from pking as the goal-line. The way you perceive combat is a direct result of the removal of the wilderness, my view is from what it has been for most of the time this game has existed. Also, as another note of how some people perceive combat, namely duellers, is nothing of what you or me think of it. Adding newschool dueling to that(where the best of brids go to show their superiority for partyhats, etc), there are many ways to perceive combat. For pking, not using protection prayers is an important part of it(as far as i know, best brids only use soul split while staking for rares, or just ban overheads).

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Can I conclude that PKing mentality is outdated for the modern combat system? We shouldn't care about what's historically been valued, but what should be valued in the current day.

 

Seeing as how much of PvP (even dangerous pvp in the form of BH worlds) is not in the wilderness now, as well as the fact that regardless of defense (excluding divine/protection prayers) there's always a chance you could get 1HKO by a simple rush, why is your perspective relevant?

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Can I conclude that PKing mentality is outdated for the modern combat system? We shouldn't care about what's historically been valued, but what should be valued in the current day.

 

Seeing as how much of PvP (even dangerous pvp in the form of BH worlds) is not in the wilderness now, as well as the fact that regardless of defense (excluding divine/protection prayers) there's always a chance you could get 1HKO by a simple rush, why is your perspective relevant?

Currently, i'd just conclude that there is no number one showing of combat ability. When wilderness comes back, it will, again, dominate. Safe pvp really shows nothing of pvp ability because of the lack of risk. Risk is what separates the children from the grownups.

First to 99 Farming on 27. September, 2005.

First to 3766 Port Score on 20. March, 2014.

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Can I conclude that PKing mentality is outdated for the modern combat system? We shouldn't care about what's historically been valued, but what should be valued in the current day.

 

Seeing as how much of PvP (even dangerous pvp in the form of BH worlds) is not in the wilderness now, as well as the fact that regardless of defense (excluding divine/protection prayers) there's always a chance you could get 1HKO by a simple rush, why is your perspective relevant?

Currently, i'd just conclude that there is no number one showing of combat ability. When wilderness comes back, it will, again, dominate. Safe pvp really shows nothing of pvp ability because of the lack of risk. Risk is what separates the children from the grownups.

 

One very important difference between Wildy pking now and Wildy pking in the past is that gear only made a marginal difference in the past but it makes a huge difference now. Regardless of how good you are, it is pretty ridiculous to be risking multiple chaotics, gear that costs in the hundreds of mils, etc. on a regular basis. Unless you are 120 DG and have a bank that's worth hundreds of billions, you will simply not be PKing in the best possible gear. "accurate" 1v1 ability will basically never be reflected by PKing now. This doesn't even include the new armors which will most likely cost 500M+ for the three sets together.

 

Moreover, the reinstatement of the wilderness does not include the removal of safe pvp arenas.

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Dangerous pvp reflects combat ability for the account as a whole less because you can't use extremes, chaotics, general expensive gear and such (without limit). That is, an account with very high herblore/dungoneering will have little advantage over an account without those levels but which is otherwise equal in a dangerous fight. So in that sense only a safe pvp environment can reflect an account's combat power (same deal with summoning, to some degree; fighting in single-combat sort of doesn't reflect the power of a high-summoning person). Ideally you'd have a safe multicombat area, no level restrictions and no gear restrictions to just go around and see who can win more fights (of whatever makeup you want, 1v1, ffa with 300 people and so forth).

 

On the other hand, pvp skill can come without moneymaking/levelling skill, so maybe we should go around handing out free maxed accounts with an infinite supply of all gear :P.

 

However the ability to make money from pvp is also something you can value, as is the ability to win fights with as little gear (in gp) as possible.

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Tormented demon drops: twenty effigies, nine pairs of claws, two dragon armour slices and one elite clue | Dagannoth king drops: two dragon hatchets, two elite clues, one archer ring and one warrior ring

Glacor drops: four pairs of ragefire boots, one pair of steadfast boots, six effigies, two hundred lots of Armadyl shards, three elite clues | Nex split: Torva boots | Kalphite King split: off-hand drygore mace

30/30 Shattered Heart statues completed | 16/16 Court Cases completed | 25/25 Choc Chimp Ices delivered | 500/500 Vyrewatch burned | 584/584 tasks completed | 4000/4000 chompies hunted

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One very important difference between Wildy pking now and Wildy pking in the past is that gear only made a marginal difference in the past but it makes a huge difference now. Regardless of how good you are, it is pretty ridiculous to be risking multiple chaotics, gear that costs in the hundreds of mils, etc. on a regular basis. Unless you are 120 DG and have a bank that's worth hundreds of billions, you will simply not be PKing in the best possible gear. "accurate" 1v1 ability will basically never be reflected by PKing now. This doesn't even include the new armors which will most likely cost 500M+ for the three sets together.

 

Moreover, the reinstatement of the wilderness does not include the removal of safe pvp arenas.

It doesn't, but most of the people in the world like to show superiority in something material.

 

As for the risk, it's what keeps things honest. You can only risk what you dare lose, not use everything you want and have no worries about losing. Being put into a perfect situation is not a natural way of besting each-other. That's why i think being a great solo pker really brings out the best abilities in a player good at combat- they are not limited by money(30m bank is more than enough) and have to take every possibility into account, and they don't only have to face one person at a time, they can face a team of 30 people and have to show that they can not only kill but also get away. Much more skill than just switching prayers/armor and eating food/drinking pots.

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The thing is, one person starts praying to get the defensive advantage in a fight. The the opponent starts to even things out, after that whoever turns it off has a disadvantage so it just stays on unless neither activates it. In f2p, it all depends on who has the higher prayer level. Whoever runs out first has more of a disadvantage (assuming both players are of equal strength).

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As for the risk, it's what keeps things honest. You can only risk what you dare lose, not use everything you want and have no worries about losing. Being put into a perfect situation is not a natural way of besting each-other. That's why i think being a great solo pker really brings out the best abilities in a player good at combat- they are not limited by money(30m bank is more than enough) and have to take every possibility into account, and they don't only have to face one person at a time, they can face a team of 30 people and have to show that they can not only kill but also get away. Much more skill than just switching prayers/armor and eating food/drinking pots.

How is that honest? Someone who can afford better gear should have an advantage, right?

Supporter of Zaros | Quest Cape owner since 22 may 2010 | No skills below 99 | Total level 2595 | Completionist Cape owner since 17th June 2013 | Suggestions

99 summoning (18th June 2011, previously untrimmed) | 99 farming (14th July 2011) | 99 prayer (8th September 2011) | 99 constitution (10th September 2011) | 99 dungeoneering (15th November 2011)

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99 herblore (22nd March 2012) | 99 firemaking (26th March 2012) | 99 cooking (2nd July 2012) | 99 runecrafting (12th March 2012) | 99 crafting (26th August 2012) | 99 agility (19th November 2012)

99 woodcutting (22nd November 2012) | 99 fletching (31st December 2012) | 99 thieving (3rd January 2013) | 99 hunter (11th January 2013) | 99 mining (21st January 2013) | 99 fishing (21st January 2013)

99 smithing (21st January 2013) | 120 dungeoneering (17th June 2013) | 99 divination (24th November 2013)

Tormented demon drops: twenty effigies, nine pairs of claws, two dragon armour slices and one elite clue | Dagannoth king drops: two dragon hatchets, two elite clues, one archer ring and one warrior ring

Glacor drops: four pairs of ragefire boots, one pair of steadfast boots, six effigies, two hundred lots of Armadyl shards, three elite clues | Nex split: Torva boots | Kalphite King split: off-hand drygore mace

30/30 Shattered Heart statues completed | 16/16 Court Cases completed | 25/25 Choc Chimp Ices delivered | 500/500 Vyrewatch burned | 584/584 tasks completed | 4000/4000 chompies hunted

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prayer and summoning are parts of your combat level, but people don't want you do use them

Extremes and Overloads aren't a part of your level....everyone wants to use them in the new wildy.

 

Makes sense to me!

 

^^^ THIS@@@@@@@@@@@@@222222222

 

People say the same thing. Everyone either goes, "HEY, IF YOU HAVE IT, YOU HAVE A RIGHT TO USE IT!" or "no. prayer is nub. :l"

 

So I'm like, well, okay. Everyone can go eat [cabbage] and pray or don't pray if they want. It's no big deal.

 

/thread

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As for the risk, it's what keeps things honest. You can only risk what you dare lose, not use everything you want and have no worries about losing. Being put into a perfect situation is not a natural way of besting each-other. That's why i think being a great solo pker really brings out the best abilities in a player good at combat- they are not limited by money(30m bank is more than enough) and have to take every possibility into account, and they don't only have to face one person at a time, they can face a team of 30 people and have to show that they can not only kill but also get away. Much more skill than just switching prayers/armor and eating food/drinking pots.

How is that honest? Someone who can afford better gear should have an advantage, right?

 

Not if they're unwilling to risk it.

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As for the risk, it's what keeps things honest. You can only risk what you dare lose, not use everything you want and have no worries about losing. Being put into a perfect situation is not a natural way of besting each-other. That's why i think being a great solo pker really brings out the best abilities in a player good at combat- they are not limited by money(30m bank is more than enough) and have to take every possibility into account, and they don't only have to face one person at a time, they can face a team of 30 people and have to show that they can not only kill but also get away. Much more skill than just switching prayers/armor and eating food/drinking pots.

How is that honest? Someone who can afford better gear should have an advantage, right?

 

Not if they're unwilling to risk it.

Why is that? Doesn't make any sense to me you should be willing to lose the gear you are using.

Supporter of Zaros | Quest Cape owner since 22 may 2010 | No skills below 99 | Total level 2595 | Completionist Cape owner since 17th June 2013 | Suggestions

99 summoning (18th June 2011, previously untrimmed) | 99 farming (14th July 2011) | 99 prayer (8th September 2011) | 99 constitution (10th September 2011) | 99 dungeoneering (15th November 2011)

99 ranged (28th November 2011) | 99 attack, 99 defence, 99 strength (11th December 2011) | 99 slayer (18th December 2011) | 99 magic (22nd December 2011) | 99 construction (16th March 2012)

99 herblore (22nd March 2012) | 99 firemaking (26th March 2012) | 99 cooking (2nd July 2012) | 99 runecrafting (12th March 2012) | 99 crafting (26th August 2012) | 99 agility (19th November 2012)

99 woodcutting (22nd November 2012) | 99 fletching (31st December 2012) | 99 thieving (3rd January 2013) | 99 hunter (11th January 2013) | 99 mining (21st January 2013) | 99 fishing (21st January 2013)

99 smithing (21st January 2013) | 120 dungeoneering (17th June 2013) | 99 divination (24th November 2013)

Tormented demon drops: twenty effigies, nine pairs of claws, two dragon armour slices and one elite clue | Dagannoth king drops: two dragon hatchets, two elite clues, one archer ring and one warrior ring

Glacor drops: four pairs of ragefire boots, one pair of steadfast boots, six effigies, two hundred lots of Armadyl shards, three elite clues | Nex split: Torva boots | Kalphite King split: off-hand drygore mace

30/30 Shattered Heart statues completed | 16/16 Court Cases completed | 25/25 Choc Chimp Ices delivered | 500/500 Vyrewatch burned | 584/584 tasks completed | 4000/4000 chompies hunted

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As for the risk, it's what keeps things honest. You can only risk what you dare lose, not use everything you want and have no worries about losing. Being put into a perfect situation is not a natural way of besting each-other. That's why i think being a great solo pker really brings out the best abilities in a player good at combat- they are not limited by money(30m bank is more than enough) and have to take every possibility into account, and they don't only have to face one person at a time, they can face a team of 30 people and have to show that they can not only kill but also get away. Much more skill than just switching prayers/armor and eating food/drinking pots.

How is that honest? Someone who can afford better gear should have an advantage, right?

 

Not if they're unwilling to risk it.

Why is that? Doesn't make any sense to me you should be willing to lose the gear you are using.

Like I said before, oldschool pking gear was relatively easy to replace. To have the best possible hybrid or tribrid setup includes several hundred million in gear as well as multiple chaotics. To routinely risk this is ridiculous.

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As for the risk, it's what keeps things honest. You can only risk what you dare lose, not use everything you want and have no worries about losing. Being put into a perfect situation is not a natural way of besting each-other. That's why i think being a great solo pker really brings out the best abilities in a player good at combat- they are not limited by money(30m bank is more than enough) and have to take every possibility into account, and they don't only have to face one person at a time, they can face a team of 30 people and have to show that they can not only kill but also get away. Much more skill than just switching prayers/armor and eating food/drinking pots.

How is that honest? Someone who can afford better gear should have an advantage, right?

 

Not if they're unwilling to risk it.

Why is that? Doesn't make any sense to me you should be willing to lose the gear you are using.

Yes, better gear and a bigger bank gives you an advantage in a one on one fight, but not in a situation where you are fighting for profit(thus the term successful solo pker). And well, someone who has a bigger bank shouldn't have an advantage, but someone who can afford to risk more should have. If you risk alot while getting alot of kills, all while not making a profit, you aren't a good pker in my book.

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First to 3766 Port Score on 20. March, 2014.

First to 4664 Port Score on 2. March, 2015.

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So you think the skill of a pker is to make money?

 

(versus the skill of a safe pvper to get kills)

Supporter of Zaros | Quest Cape owner since 22 may 2010 | No skills below 99 | Total level 2595 | Completionist Cape owner since 17th June 2013 | Suggestions

99 summoning (18th June 2011, previously untrimmed) | 99 farming (14th July 2011) | 99 prayer (8th September 2011) | 99 constitution (10th September 2011) | 99 dungeoneering (15th November 2011)

99 ranged (28th November 2011) | 99 attack, 99 defence, 99 strength (11th December 2011) | 99 slayer (18th December 2011) | 99 magic (22nd December 2011) | 99 construction (16th March 2012)

99 herblore (22nd March 2012) | 99 firemaking (26th March 2012) | 99 cooking (2nd July 2012) | 99 runecrafting (12th March 2012) | 99 crafting (26th August 2012) | 99 agility (19th November 2012)

99 woodcutting (22nd November 2012) | 99 fletching (31st December 2012) | 99 thieving (3rd January 2013) | 99 hunter (11th January 2013) | 99 mining (21st January 2013) | 99 fishing (21st January 2013)

99 smithing (21st January 2013) | 120 dungeoneering (17th June 2013) | 99 divination (24th November 2013)

Tormented demon drops: twenty effigies, nine pairs of claws, two dragon armour slices and one elite clue | Dagannoth king drops: two dragon hatchets, two elite clues, one archer ring and one warrior ring

Glacor drops: four pairs of ragefire boots, one pair of steadfast boots, six effigies, two hundred lots of Armadyl shards, three elite clues | Nex split: Torva boots | Kalphite King split: off-hand drygore mace

30/30 Shattered Heart statues completed | 16/16 Court Cases completed | 25/25 Choc Chimp Ices delivered | 500/500 Vyrewatch burned | 584/584 tasks completed | 4000/4000 chompies hunted

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So you think the skill of a pker is to make money?

 

(versus the skill of a safe pvper to get kills)

The goal is to have fun. To quantify success, you turn to profit. As for what the ancient said, that's the whole point of it. If you are going to risk half your bank, you pretty damn sure know that you are not going to die. I myself have pked with a partyhat, and i must say, it's alot of fun(and no, it wasn't solo pking). No risk means there isn't anything on the line. And as for quantifying superiority in 1 vs 1 dm's- the game isn't only single combat, thus the fact that pking allows for a wild variety of different situations as well as the difficulty of getting away to show how good you really are.

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Aye so both money and kills/deaths ratio are quantifications of success/fun, just different. Wouldn't you agree?

Supporter of Zaros | Quest Cape owner since 22 may 2010 | No skills below 99 | Total level 2595 | Completionist Cape owner since 17th June 2013 | Suggestions

99 summoning (18th June 2011, previously untrimmed) | 99 farming (14th July 2011) | 99 prayer (8th September 2011) | 99 constitution (10th September 2011) | 99 dungeoneering (15th November 2011)

99 ranged (28th November 2011) | 99 attack, 99 defence, 99 strength (11th December 2011) | 99 slayer (18th December 2011) | 99 magic (22nd December 2011) | 99 construction (16th March 2012)

99 herblore (22nd March 2012) | 99 firemaking (26th March 2012) | 99 cooking (2nd July 2012) | 99 runecrafting (12th March 2012) | 99 crafting (26th August 2012) | 99 agility (19th November 2012)

99 woodcutting (22nd November 2012) | 99 fletching (31st December 2012) | 99 thieving (3rd January 2013) | 99 hunter (11th January 2013) | 99 mining (21st January 2013) | 99 fishing (21st January 2013)

99 smithing (21st January 2013) | 120 dungeoneering (17th June 2013) | 99 divination (24th November 2013)

Tormented demon drops: twenty effigies, nine pairs of claws, two dragon armour slices and one elite clue | Dagannoth king drops: two dragon hatchets, two elite clues, one archer ring and one warrior ring

Glacor drops: four pairs of ragefire boots, one pair of steadfast boots, six effigies, two hundred lots of Armadyl shards, three elite clues | Nex split: Torva boots | Kalphite King split: off-hand drygore mace

30/30 Shattered Heart statues completed | 16/16 Court Cases completed | 25/25 Choc Chimp Ices delivered | 500/500 Vyrewatch burned | 584/584 tasks completed | 4000/4000 chompies hunted

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I thought theAncient was talking about Pvp? About protect prayers being looked down upon in Pvp.

I've never seen someone at clan wars ffa flaming another guy b/c he's praying, nor at castle wars or other safe minigames.

 

That's where I got the opinion that you have to risk stuff. Now im confused.

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I thought theAncient was talking about Pvp? About protect prayers being looked down upon in Pvp.

I've never seen someone at clan wars ffa flaming another guy b/c he's praying, nor at castle wars or other safe minigames.

 

That's where I got the opinion that you have to risk stuff. Now im confused.

 

No, people definitely do whine a lot if you pray in basically any pvp scenario

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No, people definitely do whine a lot if you pray in basically any pvp scenario

 

Then let them whine. I will most definitely pray and "safe" when the old wilderness returns. Why would I care what those non-contributing zeros think about how I play? It's a game. And the wilderness is a free-for-all. You want rules? Go to the dueling arena. :rolleyes:

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No, people definitely do whine a lot if you pray in basically any pvp scenario

 

Then let them whine. I will most definitely pray and "safe" when the old wilderness returns. Why would I care what those non-contributing zeros think about how I play? It's a game. :rolleyes:

 

Your obviously not a pker, so who cares what you do?

 

Haven't pked since 2007 so no idea where honor applies anymore (If at all).

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I don't expect anyone to care what I do in the wilderness, nor do I care what they do. And for the record, I was a RS1 prayer beast pker (lost that account), and early RS2 mage tank pker before I became a verac's staker in 2005. That was the last year I played before I began playing again in 2009. I treated it like a FFA back then (which it was outside of the DMs) and I will continue to do that. I'm not going to not pray just so some kid has the chance to KO me with some lucky AGS combo.

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I hate the pker mentality. Don't eat above a certain level, don't pray so that one of us can get lucky and hit a 500+ with a maul or spec combo.

 

Prayers part of my combat level so i'm going to use it. If you don't like it bring a d scim.

 

Don't like the fact that I eat? Then bring a locust and scrolls to get rid of my food.

 

Its the wild anything goes. don't like it? Leave. Isn't that what pkers always say?

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Me behave? Seriously? As a child I saw Tarzan almost naked, Cinderella arrived home from a party after midnight, Pinocchio told lies, Aladin was a thief, Batman drove over 200 miles an hour, Snow White lived in a house with seven men, Popeye smoked a pipe and had tattoos, Pac man ran around to digital music while eating pills that enhanced his performance, and Shaggy and Scooby were mystery solving hippies who always had the munchies. The fault is not mine! if you had this childhood and loved it put this in your signature!

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Pff this discussion is turning into another pker vs no-pker arguement. Obviously, if you are doing a clue in the wildy or something else, you only want to survive and you do whatever it takes. Same for when you just try pking a few times.

 

I can understand however that, when you pk very often, you prefer to not waste resources and have interesting fights, in stead of prayer fights which last 10 minutes and where the guy teles at the end. That's a waste of time for both.

 

I suggest you guys try to think as a pker, and not always use your own narrowminded skillers viewpoint. (I'm not a pker myself btw, but I try to understand them :-))

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I thought theAncient was talking about Pvp? About protect prayers being looked down upon in Pvp.

I've never seen someone at clan wars ffa flaming another guy b/c he's praying, nor at castle wars or other safe minigames.

 

That's where I got the opinion that you have to risk stuff. Now im confused.

 

No, people definitely do whine a lot if you pray in basically any pvp scenario

 

My friend does what you do, which is 1v10 bridding at clan wars, and I've watched him several times, and never seen anyone complain about overheads at all...

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