Jump to content

Extremes in New Wildy


Pay_Me

  

203 members have voted

  1. 1. Which Best describes your feelings?

    • Allow Extremes in Wildy, there's no reason not to
      137
    • Don't Allow Extremes, I can't use them
      6
    • Don't Allow Extremes, I'm afraid of them
      8
    • Don't Allow Extremes, "you can't see them"
      34
    • Other, Please explain
      18


Recommended Posts

You can have 95 pray without having done the quest to get curses.....and your cmb lvl will still be the same.

So you are saying that having 95 prayer has no advantage unless you have turmoil?

 

Regardless of what quests etc you have done, prayer is displayed in your combat level. Not turmoil, prayer.

 

NOTHING of herblore/extremes/overloads are displayed in your combat level. Nothing.

GuidesForScapers.png

 

Legalize baby punching. Tax and regulate it. Punch babies erry day.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 384
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Most people who invested in herblore knew that they wouldn't work on PvP worlds. They did not know there was any chance of the Wilderness coming back. In fact, Jagex explicitly stated multiple times on RSOF that the Wilderness was never coming back. Why was there any reason to believe that suddenly there would be a day where I could no longer slay Hellhounds in the Wilderness using Extremes? Or Greater Demons, or anything else out there? The Wilderness has been a PvM place for three years now, with no warning until a vague message in MMG's clan chat within the past couple months that the wilderness may become PvP again.

 

The only boss that suffers is unpopular because it has a bad drop table. Guess what this update was going to change? That's right, the drop table of that one boss.

 

In either case, this is rather ridiculous. If you say there's no reason, I mention PvM is a reason, and you go "OMG YOU WANT A PVM HEAVEN YOU'RE STUPID LOLOL." That's not the case at all.

 

There are multiple reasons to bring Extremes into the Wilderness. Proper balance is one of them - if we believe Jagex actually WANTS to achieve proper balance, then it's best if everything's in the picture now instead of fixing it, throwing it out of the loop, and fixing it again. Fairness is another - you still have not explained where my comparison of Ancient Curses and Herblore is wrong - both of them are non-combat, both of them require combat levels to benefit from them, neither of them are actually shown in your combat level, but the actual level of benefit is dependent on a combat skill which IS usually shown.

You know your arguements of pvm are just complete bs and i'm not even going to argue for it. The wilderness is first and foremost a place for dangerous pvp, and every decision made will be made based on what is good for it.

 

Really, extremes allow a proper balance? balance in what? firstly, they are imbalanced in terms of combat level and risk, and secondly, they make the balance of DPS vs. LP dip over a scale of disastrous. If jagex wants the wilderness to have any sort of balance in the first place, they must remove at least some features, and extremes are a perfect example of where to start. If they, one day, decide to change things in that there would be a balance and herblore would become a combat skill, i'm happy to allow extremes, but until then, no. For fairness, you again talk about BS. Stats that are boosted are shown in your combat level, You effectively want them to be shown twice, or even three times. Prayer levels add to combat level, but herbore doesn't. End of story.

 

Dungeoneering doesnt add to your cmb lvl does it

PayMe.png

PayMe.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dungeoneering doesnt add to your cmb lvl does it

Herblore isn't risked, is it?

First to 99 Farming on 27. September, 2005.

First to 3766 Port Score on 20. March, 2014.

First to 4664 Port Score on 2. March, 2015.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You know your arguements of pvm are just complete bs and i'm not even going to argue for it. The wilderness is first and foremost a place for dangerous pvp, and every decision made will be made based on what is good for it.

 

Really, extremes allow a proper balance? balance in what? firstly, they are imbalanced in terms of combat level and risk, and secondly, they make the balance of DPS vs. LP dip over a scale of disastrous. If jagex wants the wilderness to have any sort of balance in the first place, they must remove at least some features, and extremes are a perfect example of where to start. If they, one day, decide to change things in that there would be a balance and herblore would become a combat skill, i'm happy to allow extremes, but until then, no. For fairness, you again talk about BS. Stats that are boosted are shown in your combat level, You effectively want them to be shown twice, or even three times. Prayer levels add to combat level, but herbore doesn't. End of story.

 

More smoke screen to cover the fact that you don't have an argument. Okay then.

 

99 Herblore does you no good when you have 1 Attack.

Ancient Curses do you no good when you have 10 Prayer (hypothetically, you got your Ancient Curses and got statwiped).

 

Herblore does not add to combat. The Quests and the smithing levels do not add to combat.

 

96 Attack does not mean you have Extremes. It does mean you could potentially benefit from Extremes.

95 Prayer does not mean you have Ancient Curses. It does mean you could potentially benefit from Ancient Curses.

 

I don't need anything to be shown twice. I don't need anything to be shown three times. Prayer is shown, Ancient curses are not. Attack is shown, Extreme Attack potions are not. Prayer adds to combat levels, Attack adds to combat levels. Smithing and Quests do not add to combat levels, Herblore does not add to combat levels.

 

So you are saying that having 95 prayer has no advantage unless you have turmoil?

 

Regardless of what quests etc you have done, prayer is displayed in your combat level. Not turmoil, prayer.

 

NOTHING of herblore/extremes/overloads are displayed in your combat level. Nothing.

 

What don't you understand about the fact that Extreme Attack Potions having absolutely no benefit beyond Super Attack Potions at level 10 Attack, just like Ancient Curses having absolutely no benefit at level 10 Prayer?

 

You're not even comparing apples and oranges, you're comparing apple seeds to orange trees. There is the ability, which is the Extreme Attack Potions, or the Ancient Curses, which is not represented in your combat level. Then there is the actual benefit, which requires a combat level (but is not represented by it, because the combat level can exist without the ability). 95 Prayer doesn't show Turmoil, and 96 Attack doesn't show Extreme Attack. However, 95 Prayer shows that Turmoil is POSSIBLE should Ancient Curses be unlocked, and 96 Attack shows that a +7 advantage over Super is POSSIBLE should Extreme Attack potions be unlocked.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dungeoneering doesnt add to your cmb lvl does it

Herblore isn't risked, is it?

 

Rigour isnt risked is it?

Herblore doesn't add to your combat level, does it?

First to 99 Farming on 27. September, 2005.

First to 3766 Port Score on 20. March, 2014.

First to 4664 Port Score on 2. March, 2015.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dungeoneering doesnt add to your cmb lvl does it

Herblore isn't risked, is it?

 

Rigour isnt risked is it?

 

prayer is added to your combat level, isn't it?

 

Attack is added to your combat level, isn't it?

 

Herblore doesn't add to your combat level, does it?

 

Dungeoneering doesn't add to your combat level, does it?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dungeoneering doesnt add to your cmb lvl does it

Herblore isn't risked, is it?

 

Rigour isnt risked is it?

 

prayer is added to your combat level, isn't it?

 

Attack is added to your combat level, isn't it?

 

Who are you? I'm talking to pay me right now.

whatisrush-1.png

Fisher/Woodcut------Me-----Miner/crafter----Stabber----Leecher

^Golvellius must be so proud^

FlowerPower.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

More smoke screen to cover the fact that you don't have an argument. Okay then.

 

99 Herblore does you no good when you have 1 Attack.

Ancient Curses do you no good when you have 10 Prayer (hypothetically, you got your Ancient Curses and got statwiped).

 

Herblore does not add to combat. The Quests and the smithing levels do not add to combat.

 

96 Attack does not mean you have Extremes. It does mean you could potentially benefit from Extremes.

95 Prayer does not mean you have Ancient Curses. It does mean you could potentially benefit from Ancient Curses.

 

I don't need anything to be shown twice. I don't need anything to be shown three times. Prayer is shown, Ancient curses are not. Attack is shown, Extreme Attack potions are not. Prayer adds to combat levels, Attack adds to combat levels. Smithing and Quests do not add to combat levels, Herblore does not add to combat levels.

There has never been a need to show quest rewards in combat levels, just as there isn't a need to show dungeoneering prayers with dungeoneering level. An item/ability is balanced if it either adds risk or if it is reflected in your combat level. Both prayer and potions improve on existing combat levels, but because those levels are already accounted for, there is no need to account for them twice. Thus, any prayer levels adds to your combat level, while herblore levels don't, but they both give you similar boosts. There is a difference, thus there is a reason to ban one and not the other.

 

Also, please someone point out the flaw in the argument. Every potential combat ability has to be reflected atleast once on your combat level, or add risk. Rigour needs 74 prayer, and prayer is reflected on combat level. Chaotics are risked in the wilderness. Curses require prayer levels, which are reflected on your combat level. Herblore is not reflected on your combat level and doesn't add risk. Yes, you need other levels to take advantage of that potential, but that is also true for prayer, which adds combat levels, and those other levels are already shown in your combat level.

First to 99 Farming on 27. September, 2005.

First to 3766 Port Score on 20. March, 2014.

First to 4664 Port Score on 2. March, 2015.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Who are you? I'm talking to pay me right now.

 

I'm someone who's pointing out a flaw in your argument. :rolleyes:

 

Not really, that little "X doesn't/does to your Y" could go on for hours...in complete circles.

Every single line would have had a flaw in it. I've already given my overall view on this (my view is no view matters since jagex decided already), so now I'm just having fun. :rolleyes:

whatisrush-1.png

Fisher/Woodcut------Me-----Miner/crafter----Stabber----Leecher

^Golvellius must be so proud^

FlowerPower.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

99 Herblore does you no good when you have 1 Attack.

they do boost your strength, magic, ranged etc..What are you doing in the wilderness anyways, with all those at lvl 1?

 

Ancient Curses do you no good when you have 10 Prayer (hypothetically, you got your Ancient Curses and got statwiped).

Hence you do not have the combat levels from 10-95 prayer and not the ability to use turmoil. perfectly fair.

 

Herblore does not add to combat. The Quests and the smithing levels do not add to combat.

Herblore is a mad expensive skill. The smithing requirement for devious minds is trainable in a few hours.

 

96 Attack does not mean you have Extremes. It does mean you could potentially benefit from Extremes.

If 96 attack made you able to use extremes that'd be fine, as it would be displayed in your combat level.

 

95 Prayer does not mean you have Ancient Curses. It does mean you could potentially benefit from Ancient Curses.

I'm fairly sure someone dedicated to getting 95 prayer won't mind doing the quest.

 

I don't need anything to be shown twice. I don't need anything to be shown three times. Prayer is shown, Ancient curses are not

We can safely assume that someone with 95 prayer has done the quest. Can you name anyone that hasn't? Retired players don't count

 

Attack is shown, Extreme Attack potions are not

Correct.

Prayer adds to combat levels, Attack adds to combat levels.

Correct.

Smithing and Quests do not add to combat levels, Herblore does not add to combat levels.

Do you agree with '85 herblore is a (10x+) harder requirement than 60 smithing'?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There has never been a need to show quest rewards in combat levels, just as there isn't a need to show dungeoneering prayers with dungeoneering level. An item/ability is balanced if it either adds risk or if it is reflected in your combat level. Both prayer and potions improve on existing combat levels, but because those levels are already accounted for, there is no need to account for them twice. Thus, any prayer levels adds to your combat level, while herblore levels don't, but they both give you similar boosts. There is a difference, thus there is a reason to ban one and not the other.

 

They do not give similar boosts.

 

The boosts you get from Herblore are similar to the boosts you get from Smithing and Questing, NOT from Prayer. Prayer is the ability to USE the boosts, just like Attack is the ability to USE the boosts of an Extreme Attack Potion.

 

Attack is represented in combat, so therefore there is no difference.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is a big topic, and one that I feel needs addressed by jagex. If they want to ban extremes in the wilderness I want a good reason. Not just because we can't see them. Because from my experience, in all the pvp mini games and places you can actually use extremes, they are not so over powering. Extremes work well in the pvp configuration and would add a nice spice into the new wild.

 

So what does everyone else think?

 

No, because no.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There has never been a need to show quest rewards in combat levels, just as there isn't a need to show dungeoneering prayers with dungeoneering level. An item/ability is balanced if it either adds risk or if it is reflected in your combat level. Both prayer and potions improve on existing combat levels, but because those levels are already accounted for, there is no need to account for them twice. Thus, any prayer levels adds to your combat level, while herblore levels don't, but they both give you similar boosts. There is a difference, thus there is a reason to ban one and not the other.

 

They do not give similar boosts.

 

The boosts you get from Herblore are similar to the boosts you get from Smithing and Questing, NOT from Prayer. Prayer is the ability to USE the boosts, just like Attack is the ability to USE the boosts of an Extreme Attack Potion.

 

Attack is represented in combat, so therefore there is no difference.

I'm fairly sure you also need a high herblore level to have the ability to use extremes.

Even at level 1, extremes boost more than supers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There has never been a need to show quest rewards in combat levels, just as there isn't a need to show dungeoneering prayers with dungeoneering level. An item/ability is balanced if it either adds risk or if it is reflected in your combat level. Both prayer and potions improve on existing combat levels, but because those levels are already accounted for, there is no need to account for them twice. Thus, any prayer levels adds to your combat level, while herblore levels don't, but they both give you similar boosts. There is a difference, thus there is a reason to ban one and not the other.

 

They do not give similar boosts.

 

The boosts you get from Herblore are similar to the boosts you get from Smithing and Questing, NOT from Prayer. Prayer is the ability to USE the boosts, just like Attack is the ability to USE the boosts of an Extreme Attack Potion.

 

Attack is represented in combat, so therefore there is no difference.

There is something wrong with you in the head.

 

Attack isn't a requirement, you can use an ext. attack potion at 1 attack and still get a boost, which is an advantage. You can't use turmoil at 1 prayer, can you?

GuidesForScapers.png

 

Legalize baby punching. Tax and regulate it. Punch babies erry day.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm fairly sure you also need a high herblore level to have the ability to use extremes.

Even at level 1, extremes boost more than supers.

Depends on your definition of high, but you can make all extremes at 86 if you're using stews ... (and 86 herblore should cost somewhere around 70m ...)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

99 Herblore does you no good when you have 1 Attack.

they do boost your strength, magic, ranged etc..What are you doing in the wilderness anyways, with all those at lvl 1?

 

Ancient Curses do you no good when you have 10 Prayer (hypothetically, you got your Ancient Curses and got statwiped).

Hence you do not have the combat levels from 10-95 prayer and not the ability to use turmoil. perfectly fair.

 

Herblore does not add to combat. The Quests and the smithing levels do not add to combat.

Herblore is a mad expensive skill. The smithing requirement for devious minds is trainable in a few hours.

 

96 Attack does not mean you have Extremes. It does mean you could potentially benefit from Extremes.

If 96 attack made you able to use extremes that'd be fine, as it would be displayed in your combat level.

 

95 Prayer does not mean you have Ancient Curses. It does mean you could potentially benefit from Ancient Curses.

I'm fairly sure someone dedicated to getting 95 prayer won't mind doing the quest.

 

I don't need anything to be shown twice. I don't need anything to be shown three times. Prayer is shown, Ancient curses are not

We can safely assume that someone with 95 prayer has done the quest. Can you name anyone that hasn't? Retired players don't count

 

Attack is shown, Extreme Attack potions are not

Correct.

Prayer adds to combat levels, Attack adds to combat levels.

Correct.

Smithing and Quests do not add to combat levels, Herblore does not add to combat levels.

Do you agree with '85 herblore is a (10x+) harder requirement than 60 smithing'?

 

They do not boost your stats any more than Super potions do. That is a huge misconception. Level 9 Attack is boosted 6 levels by an Extreme Attack potion, and 6 levels by a Super Attack Potion.

 

Level 10 prayer is the same deal as level 9 Attack. If you don't have the prayer to use it, you don't get the benefit. The same applies to Extreme Attack - all the herblore in the world will not make an Extreme better than a Super when you're level 9 Attack. The benefit is graduated, and at certain levels, you'll begin to benefit from the Extreme Attack, just like at certain prayer levels, you'll begin to benefit from Curses.

 

If the difference was 200M RC and Level 3 Attack, I would agree, but it's not. Just because you think 60+ smithing is easy doesn't mean everyone does. Just because you think 90 herblore is mad expensive doesn't mean everyone does. Unless it's something that can be universally agreed upon (like, level 3 attack is easy since even someone new to the game can achieve it within about 5 minutes with a little instruction, or 200M RC experience is borderline impossible for most players), then the magnitude is irrelevant.

 

Look up "Madmanpur3." He's not actually a pure, either. He's already 89 (or 90? don't remember.) prayer with 95 prayer banked. He hasn't even done Devious Minds, and probably won't for a while. He's not retired, and I bet he's not alone. Also, there's quite a few F2P players with 95 prayer, because 95 prayer has its own benefits that are NOT related to Turmoil. When/If these players get membership, maybe they'll get ancient curses, maybe they won't.

 

And no, I do not agree that 85 herblore is 10x harder than smithing. I personally feel herblore is much easier. You can throw a lot of money at it and the routine doesn't change much. Whereas, Smtihing is slo-mo if you smelt gold ores, but if you go for the faster and expensive methods, you need extra clicks (use the bar on the anvil, right click on the item you want to make, etc, etc). Also, there's the personal preference of herblore over smithing - I feel like I'm making something useful which in general makes me feel better about spending money on it. It's easier for me to make 1,000 potions that I'll use one day, instead of 1,000 mithril platebodies that I know are just going to be alched.

 

And again, even if it were 10x easier, that doesn't change the fact it's irrelevant. 33 woodcutting is 10x easier than the smithing, and that unlocks the Dragon Dagger (represented by a whopping 25k risk and 60 attack), but you don't see me [bleep]ing that smithing is "omagawd too hard no fair."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There has never been a need to show quest rewards in combat levels, just as there isn't a need to show dungeoneering prayers with dungeoneering level. An item/ability is balanced if it either adds risk or if it is reflected in your combat level. Both prayer and potions improve on existing combat levels, but because those levels are already accounted for, there is no need to account for them twice. Thus, any prayer levels adds to your combat level, while herblore levels don't, but they both give you similar boosts. There is a difference, thus there is a reason to ban one and not the other.

 

They do not give similar boosts.

 

The boosts you get from Herblore are similar to the boosts you get from Smithing and Questing, NOT from Prayer. Prayer is the ability to USE the boosts, just like Attack is the ability to USE the boosts of an Extreme Attack Potion.

 

Attack is represented in combat, so therefore there is no difference.

How are the boosts not similar? they both require other combat skills to take advantage of the boost. Prayer is the requirement of using turmoil, thus it is reflected on combat level. All other requirements are redundant because of the prayer requirement. Herblore is the requirement for overloads, but it is in no way reflected on your combat level. Very similar, but one adds to combat level, the other doesn't. You can argue all you want, but evidently this is the way jagex sees things, and you are just a sore loser in these arguments. Anyone with half a brain can understand how extremes differ from other combat boosting levels/equipment, and that there is a legit reason to not allow them.

 

As for normal potions, they have no requirements but money, and don't really kill the pking climate.

 

By the way, as Soma's arguments are just running in circles and are getting more stupid by the minute, i take it upon me to walk away from the discussion. I can wholeheartedly say i'm proud that jagex made the right decision and banned them from the wilderness, and thank them for it.

First to 99 Farming on 27. September, 2005.

First to 3766 Port Score on 20. March, 2014.

First to 4664 Port Score on 2. March, 2015.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There has never been a need to show quest rewards in combat levels, just as there isn't a need to show dungeoneering prayers with dungeoneering level. An item/ability is balanced if it either adds risk or if it is reflected in your combat level. Both prayer and potions improve on existing combat levels, but because those levels are already accounted for, there is no need to account for them twice. Thus, any prayer levels adds to your combat level, while herblore levels don't, but they both give you similar boosts. There is a difference, thus there is a reason to ban one and not the other.

 

They do not give similar boosts.

 

The boosts you get from Herblore are similar to the boosts you get from Smithing and Questing, NOT from Prayer. Prayer is the ability to USE the boosts, just like Attack is the ability to USE the boosts of an Extreme Attack Potion.

 

Attack is represented in combat, so therefore there is no difference.

There is something wrong with you in the head.

 

Attack isn't a requirement, you can use an ext. attack potion at 1 attack and still get a boost, which is an advantage. You can't use turmoil at 1 prayer, can you?

 

No, you can't. Extreme Attack Potion at level offers +5, which is exactly the same as the Super Attack Potion which also offers +5. While you get "a" boost, there is no difference between it and the one available for everyone, so your herblore is of absolutely no benefit to you.

 

Why do you people act as if Extremes are a magic +7? It's not. It's a 5-26 boost versus the original 5-19 boost, with the extra 7 points being distributed between 1 and 96. Meaning that in order to get each of these seven points, you require a specific attack level...

 

How are the boosts not similar? they both require other combat skills to take advantage of the boost. Prayer is the requirement of using turmoil, thus it is reflected on combat level. All other requirements are redundant because of the prayer requirement. Herblore is the requirement for overloads, but it is in no way reflected on your combat level. Very similar, but one adds to combat level, the other doesn't. You can argue all you want, but evidently this is the way jagex sees things, and you are just a sore loser in these arguments. Anyone with half a brain can understand how extremes differ from other combat boosting levels/equipment, and that there is a legit reason to not allow them.

 

All other requirements are NOT redundant. There are people who meet the prayer requirements but not the other requirements, and there are people who meet the other requirements, but not the prayer requirements.

 

The people who meet the other requirements but not the prayer requirements can benefit from the weaker ancient curses if they meet the lower prayer requirements (such as 92 for Soul Split). The players who meet the prayer requirements can benefit from the inherent prayer benefits (more pray points, more prayer restore) but not the ancient curses benefits.

 

The same applies to Attack. There are people who meet the attack requirements but not the herblore requirements, and there are people who meet the herblore requirements, but not the prayer requirements.

 

The people who meet the herblore requirements but not the attack requirements can benefit from the weaker benefits of Extreme Attack (+1, +2, +3, +4, +5, and +6 depending on your Attack level). The players who meet the attack requirements can benefit from the attack benefits (accuracy, wielding equipment) but not the extreme attack potions benefits.

 

I'm going to use your own line here. Anyone with half a brain can see the parallels between Herblore and the non-combat requirements of Ancient Curses, and between Attack/Strength/Defense levels and Prayer in the relationship between Extremes and Turmoil, thus they do not differ and that is NOT a legit reason to disallow one and not the other.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.