Extremes in New Wildy

[GuidesForScapers]

99 Herblore does you no good when you have 1 Attack.

they do boost your strength, magic, ranged etc..What are you doing in the wilderness anyways, with all those at lvl 1?

 

Ancient Curses do you no good when you have 10 Prayer (hypothetically, you got your Ancient Curses and got statwiped).

Hence you do not have the combat levels from 10-95 prayer and not the ability to use turmoil. perfectly fair.

 

Herblore does not add to combat. The Quests and the smithing levels do not add to combat.

Herblore is a mad expensive skill. The smithing requirement for devious minds is trainable in a few hours.

 

96 Attack does not mean you have Extremes. It does mean you could potentially benefit from Extremes.

If 96 attack made you able to use extremes that'd be fine, as it would be displayed in your combat level.

 

95 Prayer does not mean you have Ancient Curses. It does mean you could potentially benefit from Ancient Curses.

I'm fairly sure someone dedicated to getting 95 prayer won't mind doing the quest.

 

I don't need anything to be shown twice. I don't need anything to be shown three times. Prayer is shown, Ancient curses are not

We can safely assume that someone with 95 prayer has done the quest. Can you name anyone that hasn't? Retired players don't count

 

Attack is shown, Extreme Attack potions are not

Correct.

Prayer adds to combat levels, Attack adds to combat levels.

Correct.

Smithing and Quests do not add to combat levels, Herblore does not add to combat levels.

Do you agree with '85 herblore is a (10x+) harder requirement than 60 smithing'?

 

They do not boost your stats any more than Super potions do. That is a huge misconception. Level 9 Attack is boosted 6 levels by an Extreme Attack potion, and 6 levels by a Super Attack Potion.

 

Level 10 prayer is the same deal as level 9 Attack. If you don't have the prayer to use it, you don't get the benefit. The same applies to Extreme Attack - all the herblore in the world will not make an Extreme better than a Super when you're level 9 Attack. The benefit is graduated, and at certain levels, you'll begin to benefit from the Extreme Attack, just like at certain prayer levels, you'll begin to benefit from Curses.

 

If the difference was 200M RC and Level 3 Attack, I would agree, but it's not. Just because you think 60+ smithing is easy doesn't mean everyone does. Just because you think 90 herblore is mad expensive doesn't mean everyone does. Unless it's something that can be universally agreed upon (like, level 3 attack is easy since even someone new to the game can achieve it within about 5 minutes with a little instruction, or 200M RC experience is borderline impossible for most players), then the magnitude is irrelevant.

 

Look up "Madmanpur3." He's not actually a pure, either. He's already 89 (or 90? don't remember.) prayer with 95 prayer banked. He hasn't even done Devious Minds, and probably won't for a while. He's not retired, and I bet he's not alone. Also, there's quite a few F2P players with 95 prayer, because 95 prayer has its own benefits that are NOT related to Turmoil. When/If these players get membership, maybe they'll get ancient curses, maybe they won't.

 

And no, I do not agree that 85 herblore is 10x harder than smithing. I personally feel herblore is much easier. You can throw a lot of money at it and the routine doesn't change much. Whereas, Smtihing is slo-mo if you smelt gold ores, but if you go for the faster and expensive methods, you need extra clicks (use the bar on the anvil, right click on the item you want to make, etc, etc). Also, there's the personal preference of herblore over smithing - I feel like I'm making something useful which in general makes me feel better about spending money on it. It's easier for me to make 1,000 potions that I'll use one day, instead of 1,000 mithril platebodies that I know are just going to be alched.

 

And again, even if it were 10x easier, that doesn't change the fact it's irrelevant. 33 woodcutting is 10x easier than the smithing, and that unlocks the Dragon Dagger (represented by a whopping 25k risk and 60 attack), but you don't see me [bleep]ing that smithing is "omagawd too hard no fair."

Oh, thank you for solving the debate for us.

 

/thread because if you are 9 attack the boosts of extremes and supers are the same.

 

Thanks again.

 

I love invalid points and people that relentlessly argue them, just saying.

[magekillr]

Do extremes not work well in pvp mini games like castle wars.......yes they do....you know why they work....because people actually wear armor better than rune and mystic robes.

 

Yeah, because it's affordable to die endlessly in rune and mystic. Not so in armor that costs large sums of money.

[noble_aloof]

If you can use supers why not extremes?

 

maybe i'm missing something

yeah you are.. see I can buy supers any day of the week. I have to spend a ridiculous amount of cash to even be able to make extremes. I think if they allow extremes herb over 85 should count towards combat level, or something.

[Pay_Me]

The fact of the matter is that no matter what you say the reason for not allowing extremes into the wild, there are the same amount of reasons to not allow most all high level items. So the obvious sollution is...allow extremes. See how it works and adjust as needed.

 

gf i win

 

close thread....rofl

[GuidesForScapers]

The fact of the matter is that no matter what you say the reason for not allowing extremes into the wild, there are the same amount of reasons to not allow most all high level items. So the obvious sollution is...allow extremes. See how it works and adjust as needed.

 

gf i win

 

close thread....rofl

That isn't an argument, lol. You lose. Close your face hole.

[brunokiller]

They do not boost your stats any more than Super potions do. That is a huge misconception. Level 9 Attack is boosted 6 levels by an Extreme Attack potion, and 6 levels by a Super Attack Potion.

Explain me why are you are pking with all your combat stats at level 1.

 

Level 10 prayer is the same deal as level 9 Attack. If you don't have the prayer to use it, you don't get the benefit. The same applies to Extreme Attack - all the herblore in the world will not make an Extreme better than a Super when you're level 9 Attack. The benefit is graduated, and at certain levels, you'll begin to benefit from the Extreme Attack, just like at certain prayer levels, you'll begin to benefit from Curses.

But you ALSO need 85 herblore to use extreme attack pots. Your attack level only slightly changes the amount extremes boost.

 

If the difference was 200M RC and Level 3 Attack, I would agree, but it's not. Just because you think 60+ smithing is easy doesn't mean everyone does. Just because you think 90 herblore is mad expensive doesn't mean everyone does. Unless it's something that can be universally agreed upon (like, level 3 attack is easy since even someone new to the game can achieve it within about 5 minutes with a little instruction, or 200M RC experience is borderline impossible for most players), then the magnitude is irrelevant.

 

Read my post next time. I am saying 'compared to 95 prayer 60 smithing is a negiglible accomplishment'.

 

Look up "Madmanpur3." He's not actually a pure, either. He's already 89 (or 90? don't remember.) prayer with 95 prayer banked. He hasn't even done Devious Minds, and probably won't for a while. He's not retired, and I bet he's not alone. Also, there's quite a few F2P players with 95 prayer, because 95 prayer has its own benefits that are NOT related to Turmoil. When/If these players get membership, maybe they'll get ancient curses, maybe they won't.

 

I'm fairly sure they will do the quests. They are a pushover. And in f2p once you've maxed combat (which all these high prayer guys have), levelling prayer doesn't move you into a more powerful combat region.

 

 

And no, I do not agree that 85 herblore is 10x harder than smithing. I personally feel herblore is much easier. You can throw a lot of money at it and the routine doesn't change much. Whereas, Smtihing is slo-mo if you smelt gold ores, but if you go for the faster and expensive methods, you need extra clicks (use the bar on the anvil, right click on the item you want to make, etc, etc). Also, there's the personal preference of herblore over smithing - I feel like I'm making something useful which in general makes me feel better about spending money on it. It's easier for me to make 1,000 potions that I'll use one day, instead of 1,000 mithril platebodies that I know are just going to be alched.

 

The effort you put in for 60 smithing is negiglible to 85 herblore both for the money and the time involved.

 

And again, even if it were 10x easier, that doesn't change the fact it's irrelevant. 33 woodcutting is 10x easier than the smithing, and that unlocks the Dragon Dagger (represented by a whopping 25k risk and 60 attack), but you don't see me [bleep]ing that smithing is "omagawd too hard no fair."

It IS relevant. It would be unfair too if you needed 90 woodcutting to be able to use special attacks.

[Soma2035]

Oh, thank you for solving the debate for us.

 

/thread because if you are 9 attack the boosts of extremes and supers are the same.

 

Thanks again.

 

I love invalid points and people that relentlessly argue them, just saying.

 

Invalid points? The EXACT same concept applies to the Ancient Curses.

 

If you aren't 95 prayer, you don't get Turmoil.

If you aren't 96 attack, you don't get +7 Attack levels over Super.

 

If you aren't 92 prayer, you don't get Soul Split.

If you aren't 8X attack, you don't get +6 Attack levels over Super.

 

If you aren't 89 prayer, you don't get Wrath

If you aren't 7X attack, you don't get +5 Attack levels over Super.

 

I can't be bothered going through the table to point out every benefit, but there's 7 attack level requirements to achieve 7 levels of benefit over Super Attack Potions, and there are 19 prayer level requirements to achieve 20 ancient curses. However, the overarching benefit, the Herblore and the Ancient Curses, is earned through non-combat and questing.

[SirIzenhime]

just a random note...you do realize that your argument about how higher stats make extremes better...is the same for prayers...right? Since those work purely on %

If you're 1 attack and str, and you use turmoil....you get almost no boost, because turmoil works on %.

[Soma2035]

They do not boost your stats any more than Super potions do. That is a huge misconception. Level 9 Attack is boosted 6 levels by an Extreme Attack potion, and 6 levels by a Super Attack Potion.

Explain me why are you are pking with all your combat stats at level 1.

 

Level 10 prayer is the same deal as level 9 Attack. If you don't have the prayer to use it, you don't get the benefit. The same applies to Extreme Attack - all the herblore in the world will not make an Extreme better than a Super when you're level 9 Attack. The benefit is graduated, and at certain levels, you'll begin to benefit from the Extreme Attack, just like at certain prayer levels, you'll begin to benefit from Curses.

But you ALSO need 85 herblore to use extreme attack pots. Your attack level only slightly changes the amount extremes boost.

 

If the difference was 200M RC and Level 3 Attack, I would agree, but it's not. Just because you think 60+ smithing is easy doesn't mean everyone does. Just because you think 90 herblore is mad expensive doesn't mean everyone does. Unless it's something that can be universally agreed upon (like, level 3 attack is easy since even someone new to the game can achieve it within about 5 minutes with a little instruction, or 200M RC experience is borderline impossible for most players), then the magnitude is irrelevant.

 

Read my post next time. I am saying 'compared to 95 prayer 60 smithing is a negiglible accomplishment'.

 

Look up "Madmanpur3." He's not actually a pure, either. He's already 89 (or 90? don't remember.) prayer with 95 prayer banked. He hasn't even done Devious Minds, and probably won't for a while. He's not retired, and I bet he's not alone. Also, there's quite a few F2P players with 95 prayer, because 95 prayer has its own benefits that are NOT related to Turmoil. When/If these players get membership, maybe they'll get ancient curses, maybe they won't.

 

I'm fairly sure they will do the quests. They are a pushover. And in f2p once you've maxed combat (which all these high prayer guys have), levelling prayer doesn't move you into a more powerful combat region.

 

 

And no, I do not agree that 85 herblore is 10x harder than smithing. I personally feel herblore is much easier. You can throw a lot of money at it and the routine doesn't change much. Whereas, Smtihing is slo-mo if you smelt gold ores, but if you go for the faster and expensive methods, you need extra clicks (use the bar on the anvil, right click on the item you want to make, etc, etc). Also, there's the personal preference of herblore over smithing - I feel like I'm making something useful which in general makes me feel better about spending money on it. It's easier for me to make 1,000 potions that I'll use one day, instead of 1,000 mithril platebodies that I know are just going to be alched.

 

The effort you put in for 60 smithing is negiglible to 85 herblore both for the money and the time involved.

 

And again, even if it were 10x easier, that doesn't change the fact it's irrelevant. 33 woodcutting is 10x easier than the smithing, and that unlocks the Dragon Dagger (represented by a whopping 25k risk and 60 attack), but you don't see me [bleep]ing that smithing is "omagawd too hard no fair."

It IS relevant. It would be unfair too if you needed 90 woodcutting to be able to use special attacks.

 

You ALSO need 60 Smtihing to be able to use Ancient Curses. Your prayer level only changes which prayers you get.

 

Compared to 95 prayer, 60 smithing is not negligible at all. I enjoyed training to 95 prayer and I would do it again in a heartbeat. 60 smithing (and later 80) was a devastatingly boring grind, and I would not be displeased if I never had to touch the skill again. What people like and don't like are different, what's easy to one person can be hard to another. You can not say "oh this achievement is harder than the other, therefore this one is unfair."

 

Will they do the quests? Maybe. Stop changing the question. You asked if anyone has 95 prayer and hasn't done the quest, and the answer is a resounding YES. People do have 95 prayer without the quests. Also, in F2P, prayer makes a HUGE difference in PvP combat with maxed melee stats, because you can't restore prayer mid-battle. How many prayer points you have directly corresponds to how long you can take advantage of those benefits.

 

The money I put into 96 herblore is negligible compared to how much effort 80 smithing took... like I said, prayer and herblore is a breeze for me. You can't use that as an argument of why something should be banned and why something shouldn't, because what's hard and what's not is not universal. Then you are simply punishing players who don't play exactly the same way as you.

[brunokiller]

60 smithing is 270k xp. assume you are starting from level 40, that's like 220k xp. You can easily get 40k/h at that level, so it takes like 5 hours (and is afkable). What horrible grind, lol.

 

Invalid points? The EXACT same concept applies to the Ancient Curses.

 

If you aren't 95 prayer, you don't get Turmoil.

If you aren't 96 attack and 85 herblore, you don't get +7 Attack levels over Super.

 

If you aren't 92 prayer, you don't get Soul Split.

If you aren't 8X attack and 85 herblore, you don't get +6 Attack levels over Super.

 

If you aren't 89 prayer, you don't get Wrath

If you aren't 7X attack and 85 herblore, you don't get +5 Attack levels over Super.

 

Fixed.

 

The money I put into 96 herblore is negligible compared to how much effort 80 smithing took... like I said, prayer and herblore is a breeze for me. You can't use that as an argument of why something should be banned and why something shouldn't

That is because you are rich. If jagex suddenly dropped 200m in everyone's bank so they could get extremes; extremes would be fair.

[Soma2035]

Invalid points? The EXACT same concept applies to the Ancient Curses.

 

If you aren't 65 smithing, you don't get Turmoil.

If you aren't 96 attack and 85 herblore, you don't get +7 Attack levels over Super.

 

If you aren't 65 smithing, you don't get Soul Split.

If you aren't 8X attack and 85 herblore, you don't get +6 Attack levels over Super.

 

If you aren't 65 smithing, you don't get Wrath

If you aren't 7X attack and 85 herblore, you don't get +5 Attack levels over Super.

 

Fixed.

 

Satisfied?

 

Smithing and quest completion is to herblore as prayer is to attack. Period. If you try to argue that, you're simply unaware of the facts.

 

And SirIzenheim (sorry if I butchered your name), yes I'm aware that some of the curses are based off your stats. But others are not. Wrath, for instance, is based solely on your prayer. If you would prefer I say that Turmoil is based on 4 different combat stats while Overloads are based off of 4 different combat stats, I can do that instead... but the concept behind it is still the same.

[brunokiller]

Every noob can get 60 smithing(especially if you have the funds for 95 prayer). Yet 95 prayer requires 180m.

 

tl;dr 60 smithing is a noob achievement.

 

85+ herblore is not a noob achievement.

 

Do you understand the difference in the difficulty of 85 herblore and 60 smithing?

[Pay_Me]

Hey I thought I said:

 

gf

 

i win

 

close thread....rofl

 

that means you're not suppose to post anymore....

 

And my face hole will always remain open.....twss :unsure:

 

:eek:

[All_Is_Great]

Lol PayMe and Soma, listen to yourselves.

 

Your saying Turmoil and Extremes are the same? What? Last I checked, prayer is a COMBAT skill, therefore people who train it will have a higher combat level!! Rigour requires 74 prayer to use, that's around 8 combat levels! How is that not fair? So what if he has 74 prayer and not rigour? Why does that even matter? And what does this whole thing have to do with Attack levels?

 

I don't know how to explain this, but let's just say the way you view these things isn't particularly logical.

[GuidesForScapers]

I don't know how to explain this, but let's just say the way you view these things isn't particularly logical.

I've come to the conclusion that they are simply arguing for the sake of arguing. There is no logic to what they are saying.

[Pay_Me]

It would only be fair if 2 people fight eachother both had 74prayer...one uses rigour and the other uses eagle eye. They have the same cmb lvl. The one using the rigour prayer will win 90% of the time.

 

If it were a fair fight then they would split 50/50 or at least close to it.

[Soma2035]

Every noob can get 60 smithing(especially if you have the funds for 95 prayer). Yet 95 prayer requires 180m.

 

tl;dr 60 smithing is a noob achievement.

 

85+ herblore is not a noob achievement.

 

Do you understand the difference in the difficulty of 85 herblore and 60 smithing?

 

Every noob can get 95 prayer and 96 herblore. It just takes time. Whether you're willing to spend the time is dependent purely on how much you enjoy it, so what's hard and what's not hard depends heavily on who you are. In either case, they're both "noob" achievements compared to how much time people generally invest in this game. Yes, there's a difference in difficulty. No, the difference in difficulty is not that big. Certainly not large enough to warrant a big "F U" to dedicated players.

 

Lol PayMe and Soma, listen to yourselves.

 

Your saying Turmoil and Extremes are the same? What? Last I checked, prayer is a COMBAT skill, therefore people who train it will have a higher combat level!! Rigour requires 74 prayer to use, that's around 8 combat levels! How is that not fair? So what if he has 74 prayer and not rigour? Why does that even matter? And what does this whole thing have to do with Attack levels?

 

I don't know how to explain this, but let's just say the way you view these things isn't particularly logical.

 

Extreme Potions do not immediately have a benefit. A Super Attack Potion gives 5-19 Attack levels. An Extreme Attack Potion gives 5-26. Not 12-26. In order to get ANY of the extra 7 levels of benefit, you need to have a certain Attack level for each of them. Similarly, Ancient Curses do not immediately have a benefit. In order to get ANY of the benefits of Ancient Curses, you need prayer levels.

 

You get Extreme Attack Potions through Herblore. You get Ancient Curses through Smithing and Quest Completion. You get Rigour through Dungeoneering.

 

You do not get any benefits from Extreme Attack Potions unless you have Attack. You do not get any benefits from Ancient Curses unless you have prayer. You do not get any benefits from Rigour unless you have prayer.

 

That is why they're the same. If you still think it's illogical, you need to open your mind and actually think things through.

 

I don't know how to explain this, but let's just say the way you view these things isn't particularly logical.

I've come to the conclusion that they are simply arguing for the sake of arguing. There is no logic to what they are saying.

 

Maybe if you've actually read what I've said instead of "OMG he disagrees he's wrong blargh," you would find logic in it.

[All_Is_Great]

To PayMe: That's why prayer has milestone levels. 44 for eagle eye. 70 for piety. Rarely you see a PKer with a random prayer level going around.

 

But hey, I currently have 82 prayer, working to 95. But you don't hear me complaining that I have 2 extra combat levels and that everything in between should be banned.

 

@Soma, extremes don't require an attack level to use. That's the difference. If you have 1 attack, why would you use extremes when supers are cheaper and offer the same bonus? Logic fail right there.

[Logdotzip]

I think it's at the point where you guys are arguing the same point over and over again. I don't think either of your stances will change.

 

 

OT though I asked Mod Scorpion if he could throw those coding the final update the idea to make Extremes drinkable in wilderness, but they only boost you to Super levels. I CBA buying supers every time I want to PK, when I have thousands of extremes banked. He said it was a pretty good idea and had legging.

 

I also asked the chances of allowing Overloads in the Wilderness, but making it so they only boost melees to 118's and Magic and Range to whatever their respective max boosts currently allowed are. He never got back to me.

 

I wouldn't mind if Extremes and Overloads behaved as normal in the High Risk Wilderness worlds.

[Pay_Me]

who cares about what your cmb lvl is. PK with the best you got. Thats the way it should be.

[GuidesForScapers]

Maybe if you've actually read what I've said instead of "OMG he disagrees he's wrong blargh," you would find logic in it.

You're saying attack is a "requirement" of ext. attacks and a representation of them in combat. Incorrect. You argue this based on the fact that there is no advantage from using extremes up to level 9? Okay then.

 

That settles it. There is your answer, everyone. Because players with 88 herblore and under 10 attack get no advantage from using extreme attack potions, they are fair to have in PvP.

 

Once again, thanks to Soma, /thread.

[Soma2035]

That's why prayer has milestone levels. 44 for eagle eye. 70 for piety. Rarely you see a PKer with a random prayer level going around.

 

But hey, I currently have 82 prayer, working to 95. But you don't hear me complaining that I have 2 extra combat levels and that everything in between should be banned.

 

But that is why Attack level has milestone levels.

 

Level 10 Attack is where you get +1 from Extreme Attack.

Level 19 Attack is where you get +2 from Extreme Attack.

Level 32 Attack is where you get +3 from Extreme Attack.

 

You see? There's a +1, +2, +3, +4, +5, +6, and +7 unlocked through attack levels. Just like there's a Sap Warrior, Sap Range, etc, unlocked through prayer levels.

 

But before you can get ANY of these attack levels, and before you can get ANY of these ancient curses, you need to either train Herblore, or train Smithing and do quests. The same concept applies to Dungeoneering except with only one benefit and one stage.

 

1. There's a combat component, which is represented in your combat level, and a non-combat component, which is not represented in your combat level.

 

2. If you have the combat component, but not the non-combat component, you get the normal benefits of the combat component (more prayer points, more prayer restoring, more accuracy, more strength, whatever that combat skill normally does), but you do not get ANY of the non-combat component's benefits.

 

3. If you have the non-combat component, but not the combat component, you get no benefits. As you raise your combat component, you gradually earn the benefits (except in the case of Rigour, which gives it to you all at once).

 

4. If you have both the non-combat component and the combat component, you get the full benefits. AKA +7 Attack, or Turmoil, or Rigour.

[Pay_Me]

That's why prayer has milestone levels. 44 for eagle eye. 70 for piety. Rarely you see a PKer with a random prayer level going around.

 

But hey, I currently have 82 prayer, working to 95. But you don't hear me complaining that I have 2 extra combat levels and that everything in between should be banned.

 

But that is why Attack level has milestone levels.

 

Level 10 Attack is where you get +1 from Extreme Attack.

Level 19 Attack is where you get +2 from Extreme Attack.

Level 32 Attack is where you get +3 from Extreme Attack.

 

You see? There's a +1, +2, +3, +4, +5, +6, and +7 unlocked through attack levels. Just like there's a Sap Warrior, Sap Range, etc, unlocked through prayer levels.

 

But before you can get ANY of these attack levels, and before you can get ANY of these ancient curses, you need to either train Herblore, or train Smithing and do quests. The same concept applies to Dungeoneering except with only one benefit and one stage.

 

1. There's a combat component, which is represented in your combat level, and a non-combat component, which is not represented in your combat level.

 

2. If you have the combat component, but not the non-combat component, you get the normal benefits of the combat component (more prayer points, more prayer restoring, more accuracy, more strength, whatever that combat skill normally does), but you do not get ANY of the non-combat component's benefits.

 

3. If you have the non-combat component, but not the combat component, you get no benefits. As you raise your combat component, you gradually earn the benefits (except in the case of Rigour, which gives it to you all at once).

 

4. If you have both the non-combat component and the combat component, you get the full benefits. AKA +7 Attack, or Turmoil, or Rigour.

 

This is very true...

 

gf Soma wins

 

game over

[Soma2035]

Maybe if you've actually read what I've said instead of "OMG he disagrees he's wrong blargh," you would find logic in it.

You're saying attack is a "requirement" of ext. attacks and a representation of them in combat. Incorrect. You argue this based on the fact that there is no advantage from using extremes up to level 9? Okay then.

 

That settles it. There is your answer, everyone. Because players with 88 herblore and under 10 attack get no advantage from using extreme attack potions, they are fair to have in PvP.

 

Once again, thanks to Soma, /thread.

 

Isn't that exactly your case with Turmoil? "Oh you don't benefit unless you have prayer levels so it's fair to have in PvP."

 

Honestly, are you trying to mock the "See, you need CB levels to make it useful in PvP" argument? Because so far that's your ONLY argument as to why Turmoil should be allowed.

[brunokiller]

85 herblore and 60 smithing

 

85 herblore is 3m xp

 

60 smithing is 270k xp

 

Herblore costs around 25 gp/xp

 

Smithing costs around 10 gp/xp.

 

Can't help that you only have one braincell (why else would you ignore my argument then?).

 

 

 

It all boils down to 'prayer is a combat skill. herblore is not'.