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Dungeoneering's Impact on the Community at Large


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Because non-rushers often don't give a rat's ass what you think. When a non-rusher and a rusher wind up on the same team because it wasn't advertised clearly, a non-rusher does what he wants to do and gets the dungeoneering experience he's looking for. If he's there to gather resources and make crappy armor, he can do exactly what he went there for, even if it means putting up with whining from a rusher. On the other hand, the rusher doesn't have a choice - the dungeon is going to be slow.

soma, the attitude you are suggesting is rude and disrespectful to the people who are forced to dungeoneer with you. "non-rushing" in w117 or w148 is selfish; it punishes the people in your team for no other benefit than your own laziness or enjoyment.

 

and trust me, often the "rushers" are stuck with idiots because 3bo is bad and w53 is dying. all the good dungeoneers already got 120.

 

if you were to take that attitude, i would be totally unwilling to help you. you show no initiative for trying to improve yourself as a teammate and

 

just because you don't like the face value of our arguments doesn't give you the right to be stubborn and to accept ignorance.

 

__

 

I dont agree with the terms "rush" and "non-rush" because "non-rush" implies some kind of strategy - which it really is not. i kind of doubt that many "non-rusher" keyers know how to key effectively - prevent deaths, make it easier for your teammates, etc. as far as EFFECTIVE dungeoneering goes, there really is only one strategy.

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if you like skilling and making armor so much do it outside of dung so you dont slow down other people

 

i should basically siggy this haha

 

the only real reason i see people choosing to "non-rush" is because of good dungeoneers' general elitism toward people who don't dg well. "non-rushers" unwillingness to learn is really only because we are rude to you, and often for good reason.

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You guys who enjoy going slow and making armour, skilling, ect should band together and make a clan or something.

 

Edit: @those who say you can't go fast and have fun. Look at this thread on our forums. All these dungeons were under 35 minutes.

http://z15.invisionfree.com/dgsforum/index.php?showtopic=39&st=0last

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Because non-rushers often don't give a rat's ass what you think. When a non-rusher and a rusher wind up on the same team because it wasn't advertised clearly, a non-rusher does what he wants to do and gets the dungeoneering experience he's looking for. If he's there to gather resources and make crappy armor, he can do exactly what he went there for, even if it means putting up with whining from a rusher. On the other hand, the rusher doesn't have a choice - the dungeon is going to be slow.

soma, the attitude you are suggesting is rude and disrespectful to the people who are forced to dungeoneer with you. "non-rushing" in w117 or w148 is selfish; it punishes the people in your team for no other benefit than your own laziness or enjoyment.

 

and trust me, often the "rushers" are stuck with idiots because 3bo is bad and w53 is dying. all the good dungeoneers already got 120.

 

if you were to take that attitude, i would be totally unwilling to help you. you show no initiative for trying to improve yourself as a teammate and

 

just because you don't like the face value of our arguments doesn't give you the right to be stubborn and to accept ignorance.

 

__

 

I dont agree with the terms "rush" and "non-rush" because "non-rush" implies some kind of strategy - which it really is not. i kind of doubt that many "non-rusher" keyers know how to key effectively - prevent deaths, make it easier for your teammates, etc. as far as EFFECTIVE dungeoneering goes, there really is only one strategy.

 

Whoa wait hang on. I'm not forcing anyone to Dungeoneer with me. I dungeoneer with a private, permanent team and we invite people to fill the remaining slots. If they like it, we invite them again, if they don't no big deal.

 

I am not talking about me, I am talking about the general populace of world 117 and world 148. Once in a while, when none of our usual invitees for the last two slots are on, we visit one of these worlds and clearly advertise "Floor X 5:5 Non-Rush." However, not everyone does so. People just assume everyone is rushing, and thus when a non-rusher joins their team, they wind up stuck with each other. When that happens, both parties are unhappy, but the rushers more so, because they can not achieve what they want, while the non-rusher just has to put up with some bickering and whining while he's mining his useless Bathus ore. Worst case scenario is that the non-rusher gets kicked and then you find out he had a non-CB skill you need to progress.

 

The problem is that there are people who do not like rushing on these public worlds. We've tried rushing, our team can do it, but we don't like it, so we make it very clear what we're doing to anyone who joins, but not all random teams extend the same courtesy to each other.

 

What I'm saying is that it's a waste of time to try to coerce everyone in w117 / w148 to set aside what they want when you accidentally wind up grouped with them.

 

Oh I abandoned those already.

3BO isn't that good right now.

and honestly it's not practical to have a perm team all be at the exact same dungeoneering level at all times.

You'll inevitably be forced to dg with people you don't know to finish resets.

 

Maybe it's not practical when you're at your level, but my two permanent team mates and I are still within 5k experience of each other, which is good enough for us.

 

You guys who enjoy going slow and making armour, skilling, ect should band together and make a clan or something.

 

Edit: @those who say you can't go fast and have fun. Look at this thread on our forums. All these dungeons were under 35 minutes.

http://z15.invisionfree.com/dgsforum/index.php?showtopic=39&st=0last

 

Again, why should they? I choose to DG with a perm team because it's more fun that way, but the fact is, if a non-rusher winds up with a rusher, it's the rusher who gets screwed over.

 

It's like playing chicken with a guy in a monster truck when you're in a go-kart. You're the one getting hurt. They just get slightly annoyed, unless they happen to be a sadistic jerk as well. In the end, trying to convert world 117 and w 148 is fruitless.

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I really don't understand what you're trying to make a point at. Are you trying to justify the fun vs. efficiency argument again?

 

The problem with having variety is that the rushers and non-rushers are forced to intermingle, so problems arise, expectedly. When the two groups mix (which they do every single day on 117, 148, and even 3BO), the non-rushers essentially force the rushers to spend extra time that they might not have. It's actually very selfish of them, inherently. In a perfect world, the two groups would be segregated, but this isn't the case, so it makes more sense for non-rushers to just get with the program and rush for the greater good.

 

In a nutshell:

1) When non-rushers slow rushers down, one party gets hurt.

2) When non-rushers suck it up and rush with rushers, both parties benefit.

 

It's a pretty simple decision, really.

 

Non-rushers generally do not benefit when rushing, because are not playing for the same reasons as you are, or else they would be rushing. Therefore, whether or not it makes sense to you for non-rushers to "just get with the program," they're not going to.

 

Therefore clan chats like the one this topic is about is a very good idea. Complaining about non-rushers joining teams on w117 that are rushing, but not advertised as such, is a waste of time.

 

EDIT: Actually, complaining about non-rushers joining rushing teams that are advertised as such is still a waste of time, because at that point, they're just griefing. It's kind of lame, but so is RC PKing and that's never stopped anyone.

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I really don't understand what you're trying to make a point at. Are you trying to justify the fun vs. efficiency argument again?

 

The problem with having variety is that the rushers and non-rushers are forced to intermingle, so problems arise, expectedly. When the two groups mix (which they do every single day on 117, 148, and even 3BO), the non-rushers essentially force the rushers to spend extra time that they might not have. It's actually very selfish of them, inherently. In a perfect world, the two groups would be segregated, but this isn't the case, so it makes more sense for non-rushers to just get with the program and rush for the greater good.

 

In a nutshell:

1) When non-rushers slow rushers down, one party gets hurt.

2) When non-rushers suck it up and rush with rushers, both parties benefit.

 

It's a pretty simple decision, really.

 

Non-rushers generally do not benefit when rushing, because are not playing for the same reasons as you are, or else they would be rushing. Therefore, whether or not it makes sense to you for non-rushers to "just get with the program," they're not going to.

 

Therefore clan chats like the one this topic is about is a very good idea. Complaining about non-rushers joining teams on w117 that are rushing, but not advertised as such, is a waste of time.

 

EDIT: Actually, complaining about non-rushers joining rushing teams that are advertised as such is still a waste of time, because at that point, they're just griefing. It's kind of lame, but so is RC PKing and that's never stopped anyone.

 

I can definitely see your point but most of the time when I'm in a party (I do this a lot too), people flip out at the guy whose taking his time - skilling, making armour, having fun.

99.99% of the time, these outbreaks of anger just turn the guy off to what you're saying. If you're going to start out by calling him an idiot or other names, he's not going to want to listen to you in the future.

 

I understand the elitist attitudes of some DG-ers. They have spent a lot of time training themselves to rush through DG's and get the most exp out of it. However, they never seem to remember them when they weren't so good. They never stop to actually think "Oh this guy hasn't been pushed to be a better DG'er. Maybe a few kind words and suggestions would help him out" but rather just assault the guy.

 

In all honesty, we just need people with better attitudes to play RS.

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After telling idiots 2-3 times to do something you want them to do, then I usually get angry enough to rage. I give them a chance but it's not that they aren't willing to learn, it's that they either are incapable of following directions or are purposely trolling.

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moreover, it is hard to draw the distinction. after you see so many people that are clearly just incapable of listening to directions, you tend to put labels on people.

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Keying public dungeons mean that you can't depend on anybody but yourself. If i see that someone has cosmics in their inventory then i'll ask them to gate something, but if they don't do it or say something like "I've got altar gated" when there's an altar next to base then I'd just leave it at that. I've never rage-quitted a dungeon no matter how annoying people get because the only real reason i need people is to make the dungeon 5:5 and do mimes\levers, and so many people mess up at levers for reasons i'll never understand.

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lmfao people still call it rushing?

It's how it's supposed to be done. Saying you have dun doing 1 hour maps is like saying you enjoy cooking tuna when you can do rocktails without burning.

Id you think rushing isn't fun you are most likely doing it wrong.

All you need is a competent team that just knows what they're doing

I was helping 4 lower level friends out by keying for them and organizing everything, we had no problem getting occult maps done in around 25 minutes. I died maybe once in 6 floors? ( also considering I have no plate + 3/4 were under 100 dg so they got hit more too)

After a few hours two of them had to leave and I got 2 randoms from 148 and it turned into an absolute joke. One of them had a sag bow (95 dg, hood+bow only), With no 2h and another had a staff. The staff guy refused to use a toolkit ( and astrals? idk why) and staff bashed everything. The guy with the bow spent his time cooking and fishing while there were still active gds. The map took 40 minutes and I wanted to facedesk endlessly. I had 4 deaths and two of my friends had around 2 deaths each because they were forced to duo gds ( duoing gds meant more food used, less to spare, and more deaths for everyone) and it was all extremely messy.

That guy who spent his time fishing would fit in the "non-rushing" category, and anyone who does the same is just a burden on their team. If youd rather not rush you might aswell not dg because you're just being an ass to everyone else on your team. What happens when you put 4-5 of these people together? You get 1 hour maps which apparently 18 people from this thread fall into.

 

My lower level friends are around 90-100 and I can generally do larges with them just as fast as a team of 105+ dgers in w53 (me being the highest overall amongst them helps ;p). Yet at the same time if I make a 90+ dg team in 148 I get maps that are significantly slower. It just goes to show that the less-[developmentally delayed]ed you are, the faster and more relaxing maps can be. Why would you choose to be a burden and support non-rushing ?

 

Just for the record; I love dging, I think its fun, rewarding ( or will be when I reach 120 for that beautiful cape), and relaxing. I never rage/argue/etc when I do it (unless you get a team of mostly females, they're undeniably slower) and at the same time I finish floors 2-3x as fast as the clueless chaps in 148/117. I do not see how spending an hour on a floor could make that any better though, lol

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lmfao people still call it rushing?

It's how it's supposed to be done. Saying you have dun doing 1 hour maps is like saying you enjoy cooking tuna when you can do rocktails without burning.

Id you think rushing isn't fun you are most likely doing it wrong.

All you need is a competent team that just knows what they're doing

I was helping 4 lower level friends out by keying for them and organizing everything, we had no problem getting occult maps done in around 25 minutes. I died maybe once in 6 floors? ( also considering I have no plate + 3/4 were under 100 dg so they got hit more too)

After a few hours two of them had to leave and I got 2 randoms from 148 and it turned into an absolute joke. One of them had a sag bow (95 dg, hood+bow only), With no 2h and another had a staff. The staff guy refused to use a toolkit ( and astrals? idk why) and staff bashed everything. The guy with the bow spent his time cooking and fishing while there were still active gds. The map took 40 minutes and I wanted to facedesk endlessly. I had 4 deaths and two of my friends had around 2 deaths each because they were forced to duo gds ( duoing gds meant more food used, less to spare, and more deaths for everyone) and it was all extremely messy.

That guy who spent his time fishing would fit in the "non-rushing" category, and anyone who does the same is just a burden on their team. If youd rather not rush you might aswell not dg because you're just being an ass to everyone else on your team. What happens when you put 4-5 of these people together? You get 1 hour maps which apparently 18 people from this thread fall into.

 

My lower level friends are around 90-100 and I can generally do larges with them just as fast as a team of 105+ dgers in w53 (me being the highest overall amongst them helps ;p). Yet at the same time if I make a 90+ dg team in 148 I get maps that are significantly slower. It just goes to show that the less-[developmentally delayed]ed you are, the faster and more relaxing maps can be. Why would you choose to be a burden and support non-rushing ?

[/hide]

 

Ahah, now this is the kind of thing I was talking about in the first few pages.

I fail to see how I'm being an ass by not rushing...when I only dungeoneer with friends who also enjoy dunging the same way I do.

And to say "that's how it's supposed to be done".....I'd like to see a quote from Jagex about that.

 

 

 

Just for the record; I love dging, I think its fun, rewarding ( or will be when I reach 120 for that beautiful cape), and relaxing. I never rage/argue/etc when I do it

 

That's very nice for you, I feel the exact same way when I dung

 

and at the same time I finish floors 2-3x as fast as the clueless chaps in 148/117. I do not see how spending an hour on a floor could make that any better though, lol

 

I'm sorry I find a different style of dunging fun then you do

 

(unless you get a team of mostly females, they're undeniably slower)

 

Oohhhh...never mind, you were trolling this whole time. You almost had me there.

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it's pretty clear from the results of the poll that most people want to learn to do dungeons effectively.

 

sure you can have your own side thing going and dg however you want.

 

but keep in mind the MAJORITY of people want to learn to dungeoneer well.

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it's pretty clear from the results of the poll that most people want to learn to do dungeons effectively.

 

sure you can have your own side thing going and dg however you want.

 

but keep in mind the MAJORITY of people want to learn to dungeoneer well.

 

That's fine, I'll just keep dungeoneering with my friend then, and not hassle those trying to do it faster, you know...the way I've been doing it since the skill came out :rolleyes:

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it's pretty clear from the results of the poll that most people want to learn to do dungeons effectively.

 

sure you can have your own side thing going and dg however you want.

 

but keep in mind the MAJORITY of people want to learn to dungeoneer well.

 

That's fine, I'll just keep dungeoneering with my friend then, and not hassle those trying to do it faster, you know...the way I've been doing it since the skill came out :rolleyes:

Why? You did well within our dungeon rushing and kept up with us. Why slow your xp rate by double when you can just join our teams and have a nice chat while running through floors at a 25-35 minute pace.

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it's pretty clear from the results of the poll that most people want to learn to do dungeons effectively.

 

sure you can have your own side thing going and dg however you want.

 

but keep in mind the MAJORITY of people want to learn to dungeoneer well.

 

That's fine, I'll just keep dungeoneering with my friend then, and not hassle those trying to do it faster, you know...the way I've been doing it since the skill came out :rolleyes:

Why? You did well within our dungeon rushing and kept up with us. Why slow your xp rate by double when you can just join our teams and have a nice chat while running through floors at a 25-35 minute pace.

 

Because I find the way I dung with my friends more fun? And it wasn't really a 'nice chat', all I heard was stuff about the dungeon, which is fine for the situation, but I wouldn't call it 'a nice chat while running through'.

I'll do dungeons with you guys on those moments when none of my normal group is on, and I really feel like dunging.

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it's pretty clear from the results of the poll that most people want to learn to do dungeons effectively.

 

sure you can have your own side thing going and dg however you want.

 

but keep in mind the MAJORITY of people want to learn to dungeoneer well.

 

That's fine, I'll just keep dungeoneering with my friend then, and not hassle those trying to do it faster, you know...the way I've been doing it since the skill came out :rolleyes:

Why? You did well within our dungeon rushing and kept up with us. Why slow your xp rate by double when you can just join our teams and have a nice chat while running through floors at a 25-35 minute pace.

 

Because I find the way I dung with my friends more fun? And it wasn't really a 'nice chat', all I heard was stuff about the dungeon, which is fine for the situation, but I wouldn't call it 'a nice chat while running through'.

I'll do dungeons with you guys on those moments when none of my normal group is on, and I really feel like dunging.

 

Oh, sorry. Next time I'll chat about something irrelevant to the subject at hand. Any how, we don't need someone to dungeoneer with us then if they don't find it fun. You won't be happy nor having fun. Sorry we couldn't win you over. :unsure:

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I didn't say to talk about something irrelevant, just that I wouldn't call it a 'nice chat', I never expected you talk about anything else then the dungeon. I also didn't say it wasn't fun, just that dunging with my friends they way we have is more fun to me.

It almost sounds like you're going to kick me out of dungeoneering with you ever again, don't take this so hard man :rolleyes:

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I didn't say to talk about something irrelevant, just that I wouldn't call it a 'nice chat', I never expected you talk about anything else then the dungeon. I also didn't say it wasn't fun, just that dunging with my friends they way we have is more fun to me.

It almost sounds like you're going to kick me out of dungeoneering with you ever again, don't take this so hard man :rolleyes:

No, I didn't say that. I said if you don't find it fun don't use us for your own personal gain. Take that as you wish.

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Any how, we don't need someone to dungeoneer with us then if they don't find it fun. You won't be happy nor having fun. Sorry we couldn't win you over. :unsure:

 

It's all in the interpretation.

I never said I hated it, so I really don't get the angle you're coming from here.

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Eh, sorry if I mis-toke your post as condescending. We can just leave it here, you're welcome to join our clan chat and talk to me about it. I really enjoyed the floor we did and hope I took your posts wrong.

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Meh, it's not important. If I rejoin, then it means I liked it enough to come back. If I don't, I guess my friends have started playing a lot more :P and you guys continue dunging as you normally would.

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