Looking forward to doing some floors with you efficiency nutters over the weekend, if i have the time.

 

Golvellius - I disagree with you so often, but regardless... those testimonials were hilarious. :D

 

That said, why do people take so long in the starting room? Grab something you can sell, get a couple bits of food, sell junk item you bought, buy toolkit and ess, make cosmics / astrals, run off. Takes like half a minute tops, yet on 148 i see people taking 2 minutes or so before they're even ready to start the floor.

 

Laws too.

 

And some people like to make runes for vengeance or maging warriors too.

 

Plus sometimes people check their team mates stats at the start too (I don't do this but some do - so they know who can do what).

 

Finally, if you are selecting what runes to make when someone opens a door it slows you down by the loading time and a few extra seconds as you have to go from the start of the selecting again. Not much but can add up. I've had this happen 6 times to me in a single dungeon before which = about 35 seconds.

I never ask for food because I don't need it. I'm just that good bro.

This is the fun part of keying/other playering for me. It's terrible fun to take no food / a dusk eel and try to go as far as possible before you actually hit a chance to retrace over a cleared gd and hopefully get a snipper.

While other playering turm + ss flicking keep my food consumption low, and I like jumping between monsters without picking up food.

Getting full dungeonsweeper the pro way -- through monster drops.

 

I wasn't referring to you specifically, just people that skill on 148 in general. In my opinion skilling isn't bad itself, it is perfectly ok to fish for food when there is none and make melee pots/ragers. In fact, I might even argue that making gloves/boots is an effective use of time if you do it early enough. The reason skilling gets a bad rep is because of idiots fishing when there is plenty of food, or making armour. The part about skilling that annoys me the most is when the dung is finished and everyone is prepped for boss except for 1/2 people that are cooking food/making pots. Making pots for boss is a waste of time, and cooking, if needed at all, should really be done during the floor. There's no excuse to making your team wait on you for 2 minutes to come to boss while you are camping away at base. That especially isn't fair if the team decides to go into boss and 4 man it risking death and using food while you happily stay at base wasting time and being safe. The main reason skilling gets a bad rep, as I stated earlier, is not because it slows down the floors drastically, but because the people that choose to do inefficient skillers are generally bad at dungeoneering themselves. That means whenever you get a skiller in a floor, floors will generally take longer because these people are worse, and the rest of the team blames the slow floor on "skilling" and not the person themselves.

i gotta agree accually most of the time people that fish and cook often arent the ones exploring/gating/coming to gds quick and they are prob gunna be the ones slow to take thier key that they gated so prob best to ask trusted team members to gete first or they gate themselves b4 asking a slow person =p

Getting full dungeonsweeper the pro way -- through monster drops.

 

Dr Cujo was killed.

Dungeoneering has been a great introduction to team-work and a sense of community. So what better to suggest than adding to this sense of community by making an official tip.it clan chat and world. What does all of tip.it think? Anyone who has ever witnessed the place that is called world 117 has noticed it is not a great place to find decent teams let alone gain levels. World 148? Just as bad as 117 if you're sub 90 since most of the lower levels have migrated over to the alternate worlds that they can get their hands on. The solution to this is to obviously segregate not levels, but the people who are too stuborn to properly learn the skill. Teaching these people will be much easier since they will actually be willing to learn and absorb the knowledge experienced dungeoneers pass them.

 

Now since Jagex obviously never intended Dungeoneering to have manual team finding after coding auto-find rooms and making such a cram packed lobby, what do you as a community think of the direction that the themed worlds are heading. Each and every day it is becoming harder and harder for a low level dungeoneer to advance in the skill because knowledgable teams are wanting to exclude them to save time. They make sure they don't let sub 90 dungeoneers into their teams for fear of banging their head the wall because a random person isn't willing to learn the in's and outs of the skill mechanics. With this, what will this skill become if Jagex doesn't intervene? We as players need to step up and help teach those willing and eager to learn before this skill turns for the worst.

 

So I ask you tip.it, would you rather bang your head against a brick wall while dealing with 60+ minute floors or would you like to help your fellow scaper by giving him/her a sense of community which is limited to those willing to learn how to gain fast and efficient xp. I invoke you to please express your concerns and discuss.

 

I am going to support you 100% on this and I will tell you why:

 

1. First of all, I go "both ways". Meaning that while I recognize the efficient manner in which one "rushes" a dungeon floor, I also don't mind just taking my time and skill my way through the odd floor, from time to time. That said, when I am "in the mood" to properly dunge, it is damn near impossible to find a team at my level that can actually play properly.

 

2. Secondly -- your comment "... each and every day it is becoming harder and harder for a low level [dungeoneer] to advance in the [skill] because knowledgable teams are wanting to exclude them to save time ..." -- applies to a lot more things than just Dungeoneering. It also applies to certain "team-based" mini-games, such as Barbarian Assault, Castle Wars and Pest Control. Likewise, it is damn near impossible to find people who can play either of these mini-games competently.

 

Sure -- while DG is a skill that can supply some great gear and what-not -- these mini-games are also helpful training formats that could also use their own "Tip-It" world.

 

:shades:

Getting full dungeonsweeper the pro way -- through monster drops.

 

Dr Cujo was killed.

 

Its because I didnt have full dungeon sweeper.

So it's been nearly a year and a half since the skill's release. All of the current dg clans that had a reputable title in some way (3bo, dg family, udg, no quitters, dgs) have all changed majorly, in fairly negative ways. Leech flooring encourages people to basically buy their way to whatever dg level they would like, and not learn anything in the process. The "teaching" mindset that was once present is now gone and dungeoneers are expected to meet requirements and perform to par before even allowing to visit.

 

And yet, still, the random worlds of 117/148/7 are still largely the same as before. Even the main worlds where the dg clans are run are starting to deteriorate in quality, because of people from the random worlds wanting to join "pro" floors. Quality control is a big issue when running a clan on a non-official world.

 

I feel that we need to all shift gears and put our focus back into that "teaching" mindset that we all had before. Those people that still cook food when you yell "gtgd"? Instead of getting all pissy and threatening to kick/ragequit, try and prove to those people that gtgd'ing is always the better choice.

 

Yes, the experiences of dging with only people that we know are more enjoyable and go by much swifter. But someone has got to appeal to the clueless masses out there that are still getting hour-long dungeons. What can students learn without a good, patient teacher?

 

Just to use an example, I knew how to pro dg because I was taught by a ranked member of dg family, who was willing to take the time to teach me the tips and tricks of pro dging. Without these kinds of people, how would you all pro dgers become what you are now?

 

That is why I was willing to take my own step, start my own dg chat, and help out the masses still clueless in world 7. Dungeoneering will become a dead skill very soon, I fear...

"Teaching" needs to be defined. There is some difference between training and coaxing out a person's own skill and experience so they can develop their own competency at a given task, and just simply teaching them that task without any further detail. Sadly, the most efficient method in RuneScape is the latter rather than the former, which is what you're appealing to, and the reason for that is because RS is almost completely goals-orientated.

 

A counterexample I would make is learning a new job in real life. There's no end 'goal' to having a job, the primary aim of which is a wage, the need for which never ends. People work indefinitely, or at least until the time comes that they decide to leave or retire. Therefore, there's no set timescale that new employees needing training for, and therefore it makes more sense for the company and the employee for them to learn the skills rather than each task so that any new responsibilities they take on at a later date are already underpinned in principle. It also helps the company as a whole to innovate and expand. This is not true for RuneScape. If you're training a new group of dungeoneers, it makes more sense to teach only the very basics such that they would be able to help their clanmates to whatever personal goals they hold. It makes no sense whatsoever to teach them the underlying skills, just on the offchance they may decide to turn "teacher" later on.

 

Sadly, this pattern is quite familiar in RuneScape. Just look at Pest Control--once the "big thing" in RuneScape, coordinated by many, many clans, each of which taking an interest in teaching basic competency to its members. Nowadays, barely any clans exist and the designated worlds are almost completely occupied by botters. Once the elite, honest-playing pioneers have reached their end goals, there's often no infrastructure left for those following them to make their own strides, and what Jagex has universally failed with in RuneScape is giving an incentive for players to continue playing a minigame once that "must have item" has been attained (a 120 DG cape in this case) so that those players at the top have something to gain from passing on their skills, knowledge and experience to those wanting to come through.

Personally..normally I'd rather have the quicker xp/hr...but for this skill I've taken a liking to doing longer floors for maximum xp. Most likely because I think the skill is retarded, but hey each to their own. ;P

I've never enjoyed the team play aspect of the skill. In all honestly, if I wanted my gaming experience to depend on other people, I'd be playing WoW, not RS. It took me about 10 minutes working with random people to discover that I apparently hate everyone on internet I haven't met yet. I got my cls by dungeing with a friend from my clan. Sometimes we did it as a duo, sometimes we got another 1 to 3 people from the clan to join us (I'd say the majority of dungeons were 3-4 person mediums). We both realized it wouldn't be the fastest way to level up, but it was the least likely to result in serious urges to hunt people down and hurt them.

 

I'm not sure if I will ever go back to the skill, baring tweaks from Jagex that make solo dungeons at least similar in xp to large groups. Not that it really matters since I find the skill to be more unbearable than most.

 

It's hard for me to believe that Jagex didn't see this coming. Barbarian Assult exhibits similar patterns, where the people who know what they are doing don't want to play with the new people, because teaching people (if they even want to learn) slows you down. The people who know what they are doing isolate themselves from the clueless. It's not like this pattern hasn't been obvious for a very long time either, so sometimes I do wonder why they went and designed an entire skill that would take this problem and magnify it many times over.

I would compare dungeoneering to castle wars. You have people with divines and nex gear and every other powerful item in the game who have a ball picking on low levels (This would be the crowd who does 10 minute large floors) and you have the low leveled players with adamant and so on, who stand no chance against the others (Those who do 45 minute small dungeons, or DG in W117). These low levels want nothing to do with the minigame again because of bad experiences in the past. And having the high levels not only beat you but punch you in the face with your defeat doesn't help this.

 

 

If you understand what I'm trying to say, good job. I'm not good at showing ideas clearly.

 

Maybe if there was more to dungeoneering than opening doors that are locked for no apparent reason to rooms that are always square to fight bosses that are so simple a 10 year old could do it, with people like you who just want to get maximum expenuses per hour to pass the time in their empty lives it would be remotely interesting.

dungeoneering is dead

i cbf trying to teach idiots who dont want to learn

people just leech their way to 110+ dung and use the high level dung world without any idea of what to do

back then none of the pros were taught how to dung

they had to figure it out themselves and they were able to do it because they actually gived a [bleep] about being good

I dont know which choice I would pick in the poll because I do not Dung often and by that I mean at all.

 

I am trying to get to 90 Atk, Def, and Str before I attempt to find help in the skill because groups like DGS were fairly adamant about being able to wield certain binded weapons. However, just about the time I decided I was going to do that, DGS disappeared from these boards.

 

I fully support an accessible group I can be a part of to Dung.

When I'm not with EoE and dungeoneering with my friends from a different community, the pace really isn't that much different. Sure, it's an additional 15-minutes sometimes, but they're learning. I'm not pro, but at least I can still help people get the basics down for "rushing" in terms of understanding the terminology, knowing what kind of attacks should be used against what kind of monsters, and prioritizing tasks. Unfortunately, I think this is where a lot of this negativity comes from. Some people are just simply too impatient to wait around for someone to make teleport runes or build the home altar and start screaming, etc. To me, that just makes the skill that much more horrible when it really isn't.

 

Sorry, but I rather be slightly inefficient and be nice while teaching my friends, than be totally efficient and be a total jackass to them because they're slow to get to a guardian door room. <_<

Wow, I really missed the boat on this thread. I did not even realize I posted on the 14th page of a thread this old. My statement still remains though that I want to learn the skill, but I am turned away from it basically because I am ignorant.

I find that if you are less than lvl 105, it becomes impossible to find teams. Even worse, everyone is selling floors, and anyone not selling takes upwards of an hour to complete. It feels like everyone who is going for 120 dg already started out with 105, and everyone else is slowly clawing their way up.

I didn't have a lot of problems, but I got a lost of my experience dungeoneering by doing mediums with friends, and by learning over time when I saw good players do things certain ways. I still make mistakes and all that, but a lot of players I've seen are just unwilling to change their methods.

 

I would like to see some sort of clan that was aimed at helping others learn the skills, and teach the best methods for being efficient.

 

Rushing != getting impatient when someone is a little slow to the gd or is making runes or something. Rushing does mean that you listen to the keyer and you have cosmics+laws and you know how to attack things properly, and all...

i rarely dg anymore. im in a dg clan, but its been less active lately, and theres not much else i really need as far as rewards go. and overall, im fine with doing slightly slower floors when it means everyone is cool with each other and nobody is raging.

Selling floors is effectively monopolizing dg in the favor of 120/200mers. Although it is true that s/l floors don't really take much longer than normal floors, the leechers who then want to normally dg have no clue what to do, how to communicate, and where to selfgate.

 

But I think the real nail in the coffin is the enormous amount of dg botters, and since they have absolutely no clue what to do, I hope to god they don't enter mainstream dg.

Do people still complain about you killing dinosaurs? I'm not dungeoneering again until they stop doing that.

Dging gets easier for lower levels as time goes by, its just hella expensive and that isn't my problem :thumbup:

I don't really like Dungeoneering. It was a minor struggle for me to get my rapier, I guess partly because I'm not very good at it. Basically you're relying on other players not to rage-quit so you can get your xp... At least that's what I found. I'd probably enjoy it a lot more if the solo xp was better.

Dungeoneering to me created a new divide within the community, especially now that it has settled a bit and it is much harder than it was before (imo) for newbs get into "proper" dungeoneering as many dub it (fast floors, efficiency based). Those who wanted to get into it got into it when it first came out, those who thought of it as a stupid skill laid back and ignored it (or got their first chaotic or so from w117 or the like and then quit).

 

Now that the concepts behind pro dungeoneering have been mastered by a decently large group of people, the mass learning period is over and anyone who wants to rise to the top of dungeoneering skill has to do it with an entirely new group with the same goal. More often than not, this leaves those who wish to learn behind because they can't find a group willing to tolerate their newbishness at first or they become frustrated as the even lower skill of others (117 etc.).

 

IMO the only real way to rise up now is to find a group that is willing to slow down (at first) for one another until mastery becomes self-taught for all.