Just the opposite

[Bladewing]

less time sitting around not producing (trading) = more time producing

 

who knew it could be so difficult to understand

[xpx]

playing 15 hours a day OP could get 850m in two weeks with ease

Well, if he is planning on owning the best armor he'll need alot more than 850m. Or even 8.5b. Divine+ Torva+ Pernix+ Virtus should total around 16b(very rough estimate). I doubt many will get there by skilling, so staking and merchanting are probably the only ways(with merchanting being the overwhelmingly more sensible option).

[Pinata]

playing 15 hours a day OP could get 850m in two weeks with ease

Well if he is starting from scratch, I don't see 850m in two weeks possible, unless he stakes again.

[Bangin_Blonde]

less time sitting around not producing (trading) = more time producing

 

who knew it could be so difficult to understand

 

I understand it perfectly well. For one thing, I could say I disagree that it makes things more efficient. Merchanting doesn't create wealth, it redistributes it. If something allows for great efficiency then it gives you more time.

 

Just because Merchanting may give you more time and more time may be used to create wealth doesn't necessarily mean Merchanting creates wealth.

[Star_Fox]

playing 15 hours a day OP could get 850m in two weeks with ease

Well if he is starting from scratch, I don't see 850m in two weeks possible, unless he stakes again.

 

 

Well, he can just make the few mils he needs to start rolling and since he's got good stats to do so, it's quite the possible.

 

less time sitting around not producing (trading) = more time producing

 

who knew it could be so difficult to understand

 

I understand it perfectly well. For one thing, I could say I disagree that it makes things more efficient. Merchanting doesn't create wealth, it redistributes it. If something allows for great efficiency then it gives you more time.

 

Just because Merchanting may give you more time and more time may be used to create wealth doesn't necessarily mean Merchanting creates wealth.

 

Merchanting is more of an "artistic" way of making money. It has to be practiced before you can actually

start making money out of it. Staking doesn't require much art. Luck plays around 70/80% of the time and

not a lot of skill. That's why some may prefer staking because some people like to rely on luck

and the thrill of risking money without going through a single learning curve.

[xpx]

less time sitting around not producing (trading) = more time producing

 

who knew it could be so difficult to understand

 

I understand it perfectly well. For one thing, I could say I disagree that it makes things more efficient. Merchanting doesn't create wealth, it redistributes it. If something allows for great efficiency then it gives you more time.

 

Just because Merchanting may give you more time and more time may be used to create wealth doesn't necessarily mean Merchanting creates wealth.

Merchanting creates time, which in term equates to cash. Thus, even though it's indirectly, merchanting does produce something.

[Bangin_Blonde]

less time sitting around not producing (trading) = more time producing

 

who knew it could be so difficult to understand

 

I understand it perfectly well. For one thing, I could say I disagree that it makes things more efficient. Merchanting doesn't create wealth, it redistributes it. If something allows for great efficiency then it gives you more time.

 

Just because Merchanting may give you more time and more time may be used to create wealth doesn't necessarily mean Merchanting creates wealth.

Merchanting creates time, which in term equates to cash. Thus, even though it's indirectly, merchanting does produce something.

 

This though is based on the opinion that Merchanting saves time. However, in and of itslelf, Merchanting creates neither new wealth nor bring in any new items nor does it provide a service (and I'm talking about stuff like cutting gems, running nats, etc).

[Bladewing]

yes it provides a service, it reduces transaction costs

 

i said that in my first post on the matter

[Bangin_Blonde]

yes it provides a service, it reduces transaction costs

 

i said that in my first post on the matter

 

And again, I pointed out I wasn't talking about that. But while we're on it, I don't personally believe it reduces transaction costs or leads to more efficiency is any meaningful way. That is just my opinion.

 

Merchanting in itself simply moves items and cash around. Just like staking.

[Bladewing]

i don't believe vending machines reduce transaction costs or lead to more efficiency in any meaningful way. all they do is redistribute wealth from the people who make the sodas (from whom the operator of the vending machine buys sodas for cheap) and the people who buy the sodas (to whom the operator of the vending machine sells sodas for a high price) to the operator.

 

THIS IS JUST MY OPINION LOL SO I CAN SAY WHATEVER I WANT AND YOU CAN'T DISPUTE IT LOLOLOL

 

another benefit of merchants to the runescape economy is they keep prices stable during off hours of the day, and reduce the intensity of booms and busts of the market cycle.

 

BUT BECAUSE I HATE MERCHERS (lol) THEY CANT BE GOOD PEOPLE AND THEREFORE CANNOT BE HELPFUL IN ANY WAY

[Bangin_Blonde]

i don't believe vending machines reduce transaction costs or lead to more efficiency in any meaningful way. all they do is redistribute wealth from the people who make the sodas (from whom the operator of the vending machine buys sodas for cheap) and the people who buy the sodas (to whom the operator of the vending machine sells sodas for a high price) to the operator.

 

THIS IS JUST MY OPINION LOL SO I CAN SAY WHATEVER I WANT AND YOU CAN'T DISPUTE IT LOLOLOL

 

another benefit of merchants to the runescape economy is they keep prices stable during off hours of the day, and reduce the intensity of booms and busts of the market cycle.

 

BUT BECAUSE I HATE MERCHERS (lol) THEY CANT BE GOOD PEOPLE AND THEREFORE CANNOT BE HELPFUL IN ANY WAY

 

Well, if the person who owns and operates the vending machine doesn't produse the soda, they aren't making a product. They are providing a service.

 

You claim Merchanters provice a service. I don't. At all.

 

And this in the internet, since when do opinions have to be backed up with facts and rational thought.

 

So my advice, unclench your bottom, turn your caps lock off, take some deep breaths, and move on.

 

Malzra: Mr Bladewing?

Bladewing: Yes?

M: That is a lucid, intelligent, well thought-out objection.

BW: Thank you.

M: Overruled. :-|

[xpx]

I think it's senseless to think merchants don't provide a service. Merchanting has been around for thousands of years for the sole reason that it benefits both parties. If merchanting only distributed wealth there would be no reason to do it.

[Bladewing]

Well, if the person who owns and operates the vending machine doesn't produse the soda, they aren't making a product. They are providing a service.

 

You claim Merchanters provice a service. I don't. At all.

the vending machine operator does the exact same thing as a merchant in runescape

 

if you do it in real life, you consider it a service; but if you do it in runescape it is not a service?

 

:wall:

[Bangin_Blonde]

I think it's senseless to think merchants don't provide a service. Merchanting has been around for thousands of years for the sole reason that it benefits both parties. If merchanting only distributed wealth there would be no reason to do it.

Yes, but for how long have people complained about the middle men that seem to do nothing but collect a paycheck? Those are the merchanters.

 

Either way, if you're right and I'm wrong, then they may create something, but it certainly is not wealth.

 

Merchanters do not bring in any new cash or items into the game. That is my point. Period. Stakers bring no cash or items into the game. Period.

 

-edit- Blade, if the merchanter provides an item in a place that a person would not otherwise have access to in said place, they may provice that service. Merchanters however buy stuff for one price, sell it for a higher price, and keep whatever profit they made. That's hardly a service.

[Bladewing]

argh please read.

 

merchants save the time of the suppliers and the consumers of the products they trade. this allows the suppliers and consumers to continue about their daily lives and produce and consume more goods and services.

 

merchants cause an OVERALL increase in productivity, production and consumption in the economy.

 

the service they provide is ease of trading and reduced transaction costs. merchants buy items when there would not otherwise be buyers and sell when there would not otherwise be sellers.

[Bangin_Blonde]

argh please read.

 

merchants save the time of the suppliers and the consumers of the products they trade. this allows the suppliers and consumers to continue about their daily lives and produce and consume more goods and services.

 

merchants cause an OVERALL increase in productivity, production and consumption in the economy.

 

the service they provide is ease of trading and reduced transaction costs. merchants buy items when there would not otherwise be buyers and sell when there would not otherwise be sellers.

In the real world perhaps. In Runescape they still don't create money or items. That's my simple point. You never got that. You keep yammering on about reduced reduction costs and blah blah blah. I never cared about that. They don't produce anything. The service they may or may not provide barely justifies their existence. That is my opinion.

 

If you don't like it, this is me not caring. -->

[Bladewing]

let's get rid of doctors, lawyers, and teachers.

 

 

they don't create any physical object

[predator1030]

Argh ok i'll help u guys end this argument:

 

 

Bladewing has taken economics,

Malzra hasn't.

 

End of discussion lol.

[gspbeetle]

In the real world perhaps. In Runescape they still don't create money or items. That's my simple point. You never got that. You keep yammering on about reduced reduction costs and blah blah blah. I never cared about that. They don't produce anything. The service they may or may not provide barely justifies their existence. That is my opinion.

 

If you don't like it, this is me not caring. -->

 

Service is service, providing service is production, its part of the gdp or whatever that matters.

Anyways, that doesnt mean we all should love merchants because they kindly provide such service.

Flippers add competition or demand on rs goods, without merchants you are only competing with other end users. You can still buy stuff at mid after merchants come in, but everyone gets the item alot slower, even the merchant doesnt get any advantages.

 

Since we tend to bring in real life comparisons, lets do one completely.

1. No one can buy lands or own natural resources, you cant buy karamja docks in RS but you can buy the land with gas reserve if you are rich enough.

2. There is no patent in RS. Others in RS will follow suit as soon as they figure out your new method and you cant do anything to charge or stop them.

3. You can train everything to 99 in time and you dont even have to pay a 99 to do something as long as it provides fast exp. You cant be a doctor, even if you study for 30 years, its just happens that your brain cells just cant cope. Even if you are a doctor, you cant really be a doctor and a lawyer at the same time.

4. Mass buying and mass selling give no advantage in GE. But keep in mind that its a different story in forums, I think economy of scales works in forums but I dont use rsof much now to trade stuff so I dont really know whats going on there.

 

So basically, its safe to say that we merchants are stealing your resources and if we dont exist you may get your stuff faster and your production costs could be lower.

 

argh please read.

 

merchants save the time of the suppliers and the consumers of the products they trade. this allows the suppliers and consumers to continue about their daily lives and produce and consume more goods and services.

 

merchants cause an OVERALL increase in productivity, production and consumption in the economy.

 

the service they provide is ease of trading and reduced transaction costs. merchants buy items when there would not otherwise be buyers and sell when there would not otherwise be sellers.

 

This is only true if the consumer reaches GE limit or you are trading outside GE.

[Bladewing]

so what you are saying is... if there were no other merchants, it would be easier to merchant to buy items cheap and sell items high?

 

in other words: if there were no other merchants, it would be easy to merchant

[muggiwhplar]

I've found that the less seriously I take RS, the more enjoyment I get from it. These days if I get a dragon claws drop from TDs, I don't get very excited anymore. However, I also don't really care if I disconnect at TDs and lose my void and expensive equipment. I've got too many things to keep me busy these days besides RS, so if something happened to Karma, I probably wouldn't mind too much.

 

It's unfortunate how seriously some guys take this game :\ to each their own though, I guess.

[gspbeetle]

so what you are saying is... if there were no other merchants, it would be easier to merchant to buy items cheap and sell items high?

 

in other words: if there were no other merchants, it would be easy to merchant

 

Even though thats not my point, but what you said is true as well.

Anyway, I was just arguing does merchants really reduce cost to end users.

Funny that as a salesman, my superiors always try to convince us we are just helping our client to get their job done, but we all know by heart that we are ripping them off.

[benben9992000]

yes, i too, have loss the mood of playing.

i was staking, until i got bugged 130m, lost bout quarter of a bank.

The dueling arena is filled with ppl who are experimenting new bugs. I really don't wanna go back to some stupidly slow money earning way. And yes, apart from staking there's not much stuff I want to do..

[Den]

I would say I have less motivation to play then before the limit was opened again, but I blame this forum and the rare market for that. :P

All the pictures of people gaining hundreds of millions in mere minutes at the duel casino or from great item flips.

 

I'm a grinder when it comes to gameplay, and like you said. Frostdragons seemed great for cash before the free trade update, now it seems more like a laugh then anything compared to merchanting or gambling at the duel arena.

 

That being said, I'm glad I'm maxing all 99's this weekend. Runecrafting for a profit died inside me with the update, together with any other ways of making money through skills/combat.

 

I'll dig myself down in Dungeoneering and hope the overworld is there when I get back.

[MightyMuddy]

I would say I have less motivation to play then before the limit was opened again, but I blame this forum and the rare market for that. :P

All the pictures of people gaining hundreds of millions in mere minutes at the duel casino or from great item flips.

Yeah I know how you feel, people earning billions through staking kind of makes me feel like getting the stats to do tds or solo arma seems somewhat pointless. And without the motivation to go out and get those stats I find myself kind of lost. All I can really do is merchant.