Should Jagex start taking legal action against bots/rwters/hackers

[iiLy]

you get your food from other high level combat-ers who don't use food

 

that is NOT from fishing/cooking. it is possible for combat to exist successfully without fishing/cooking.

 

Thats not SELF SUFFICIENT smart one.

 

way to miss a basic premise of our entire argument.

[i_trollz_u]

I'm pretty sure you're the other players had to fish/cook the food too.

[dynastyfan0]

Don't know if someone pointed this out, but UK laws only apply in the UK, not America for example. Secondly, who the hell would play a game were the company sues its players, even if its because they broke an in game rule? I sure wouldn't, I play games to get away from the world, and that feeling of encroachment is distasteful to me.

[Bladewing]

you get your food from other high level combat-ers who don't use food

 

that is NOT from fishing/cooking. it is possible for combat to exist successfully without fishing/cooking.

 

Thats not SELF SUFFICIENT smart one.

 

way to miss a basic premise of our entire argument.

the self i was referring to was combat. you keep making this about diy.

 

if combat were the only thing in runescape, it would sustain itself.

[i_trollz_u]

you get your food from other high level combat-ers who don't use food

 

that is NOT from fishing/cooking. it is possible for combat to exist successfully without fishing/cooking.

 

Thats not SELF SUFFICIENT smart one.

 

way to miss a basic premise of our entire argument.

the self i was referring to was combat. you keep making this about diy.

 

if combat were the only thing in runescape, it would sustain itself.

 

If there was no fishing skill, the best food you'd have would be like bread and meat from cows and [cabbage]. Explain how anybody is suppose to train without any fish, i don't know many lvl 1-120 that are 99 def with SS, EEE, and unicorns.

[Shadiochao]

you get your food from other high level combat-ers who don't use food

 

that is NOT from fishing/cooking. it is possible for combat to exist successfully without fishing/cooking.

 

Thats not SELF SUFFICIENT smart one.

 

way to miss a basic premise of our entire argument.

the self i was referring to was combat. you keep making this about diy.

 

if combat were the only thing in runescape, it would sustain itself.

 

If there was no fishing skill, the best food you'd have would be like bread and meat from cows and [cabbage]. Explain how anybody is suppose to train without any fish, i don't know many lvl 1-120 that are 99 def with SS, EEE, and unicorns.

 

I think you're getting training combat mixed up with training combat efficiently.

There would be many ways to train without needing food, even at low levels. I remember I used to see people at cows let themselves die and just walk back so they could save on food.

 

Anyway, even if you can't fish or cook, you can still buy food from NPCs or get it from drops.

It would take more effort to train, but combat could easily survive on its own.

 

Also I'm not sure if Fishing was a good example for you to use, I don't think it was even one of the original skills.

[pulli23]

Well ok, then don't look at fishing: let's look at mining, smithing... woodcutting, firemaking, fletching (do I need to go on?).. Those skills have totally lost their purpose: and this brings me back to the main point I tried to make 2 pages back:

 

those who say people should just go using combat and don't expect to skill for any monetary income are basically saying skills are a waste.

Cause if you say: "but you should skill for levels".. Well on the game design level if they wanted this to be true (skilling's purpose to only be gaining levels) they could just increase the level cap of combat skills - so you get more levels there. And if you say skilling should be done to have some relaxed fun: well this might be true, but bots are destroying this too: they increase the chance for getting ores, logs etc..

 

Hence considering above statement one can only conclude that bots -by creating an atmosphere where skilling is only done for levels- are destroying the game to be played as it was planned during the game design phase. And as this is more or less an unwanted effect jagex should take harsh action against bots!

[No_M0re]

Well ok, then don't look at fishing: let's look at mining, smithing... woodcutting, firemaking, fletching (do I need to go on?).. Those skills have totally lost their purpose: and this brings me back to the main point I tried to make 2 pages back:

 

those who say people should just go using combat and don't expect to skill for any monetary income are basically saying skills are a waste.

Cause if you say: "but you should skill for levels".. Well on the game design level if they wanted this to be true (skilling's purpose to only be gaining levels) they could just increase the level cap of combat skills - so you get more levels there. And if you say skilling should be done to have some relaxed fun: well this might be true, but bots are destroying this too: they increase the chance for getting ores, logs etc..

 

Hence considering above statement one can only conclude that bots -by creating an atmosphere where skilling is only done for levels- are destroying the game to be played as it was planned during the game design phase. And as this is more or less an unwanted effect jagex should take harsh action against bots!

 

But did you ever skill in RSC?? IT was a million times worse than now and almost everyone with a 70+ level seemed to bot. You had to click continuously on a fishing spot, or right click and then left click continuously. Skilling was never really enjoyable. Obviously they must have been made to be enjoyable because, well, it's just weird making a game that's purposefully not enjoyable. But in practice I think they only thing people ever found fun about skills was the reward. By Jagex adding skill capes they made it about the levels.

 

But this is what I don't get, if you enjoy skilling then surely the monetary reward is just a by product?? If the aim is to make money then why not combat?

 

Anyway, I personally cannot understand why anyone would want play this game if they purely skilled.

 

I r cmbt n00b :ph34r:

[pulli23]

what's the fun about combat? - It's also clicking a lot..

 

What I love about skilling is the relaxed circumstances & minicompetitions you can have... As well as the steady satisfaction of seeing your cash pile slowly grow. Also the idea: "wew I can do X which only so many people can do" is gone, there is nothing to be gained from skilling which helps other things. Previously one could say: "wow I can make my own rune platebody, there is no other way to get this so this is amazing and it's the best item". For me personally the latter was the biggest fun I had in skilling: being able to unlock completely new content which isn't possible to achieve in other ways!

 

All that is destroyed by bots: no one talks anymore, the atmosphere around yew trees is not relaxed (you have to be very fast or bots have the tree down before you get a log), competing versus a bot gives no satisfaction whatsoever (wow I beat a bot to this ore, now was this a MMO game again or was it single player with an online highscore table?).. The steady cashflow has been reduced, to almost -or below- 0, so there's no long term satisfaction. All items gained by skilling are gained in less time (if you also count the time leveling) by monster hunting.. In enough quantity you'll probably need.

 

Also do you guys think only in black & white or something? - It's not 1 thing which makes something fun: it's the combination of factors. And if that combination is disturbed it might become boring while the single factors are still gainable.

[Crocefisso]

It is a sad but inevitable truth that bots, hackers and rwters are ever more prominent since the return of free trade. However, I strongly condone this decision by Jagex and I think we have to accept that there is a trade off - we can have tighter regulations and less opportunity with increased security, as it was between 2007 and January of this year, or we could have greater opportunity at the expense of people who bot, real world trade, and hack.

 

The only action Jagex could have taken against them was taken in 2007, and people complained, as they had every right and reason to. Now that they're back, we have to accept and live with this. Truth be told, only hacking is a serious issue - and it is a serious one - but it's pretty much the only issue which can't really be suppressed or even prevented and was not affected by trade limits.

 

Now, that was a bit of background information showing how helpless Jagex really is at dealing with this in-game. Outside the game action is destined to failure because; a) botting and hacking are against Jagex rules, not the law of USA, UK, etc.; b) Even if it were possible, it'd cost them a lot and; c) Even if it were possible and cheap, it's a game. Really, legal action isn't worth the trouble.

[Bladewing]

taking away free trade was to stop credit card fraud. NOT specifically bots, hackers, or rwters

 

they were only looking after their financial interests.

[Star_Fox]

taking away free trade was to stop credit card fraud. NOT specifically bots, hackers, or rwters

 

they were only looking after their financial interests.

 

 

Well, rwting did yield credit card fraud.

[Stev]

taking away free trade was to stop credit card fraud. NOT specifically bots, hackers, or rwters

 

they were only looking after their financial interests.

 

 

Well, rwting did yield credit card fraud.

Yeah, I figured the main one was RWT. But then again, how do the RWT companies get the money without hundreds of bots? :P. Hackers... Not so much.

[Unb34t4bl3]

It is illegal to sell virtual goods

 

No it isn't.

 

illegal to steal peoples accounts

 

Are we talking about bank accounts or RuneScape accounts here?

 

I think they would make some good money off it and then they can make better updates.

 

You must be extremely young and naive.

[i_trollz_u]

you get your food from other high level combat-ers who don't use food

 

that is NOT from fishing/cooking. it is possible for combat to exist successfully without fishing/cooking.

 

Thats not SELF SUFFICIENT smart one.

 

way to miss a basic premise of our entire argument.

the self i was referring to was combat. you keep making this about diy.

 

if combat were the only thing in runescape, it would sustain itself.

 

If there was no fishing skill, the best food you'd have would be like bread and meat from cows and [cabbage]. Explain how anybody is suppose to train without any fish, i don't know many lvl 1-120 that are 99 def with SS, EEE, and unicorns.

 

I think you're getting training combat mixed up with training combat efficiently.

There would be many ways to train without needing food, even at low levels. I remember I used to see people at cows let themselves die and just walk back so they could save on food.

 

Anyway, even if you can't fish or cook, you can still buy food from NPCs or get it from drops.

It would take more effort to train, but combat could easily survive on its own.

 

Also I'm not sure if Fishing was a good example for you to use, I don't think it was even one of the original skills.

 

Because RS would be so enjoyable killing cows for the rest of your life, and getting rid of any training spot that isn't right next to a spawn.

[Shadiochao]

It not being enjoyable doesn't mean it would be impossible like you seem to think.

[iiLy]

It not being enjoyable doesn't mean it would be impossible like you seem to think.

 

Try killing cows for an hour straight, its impossible to stay awake aka its impossible.

 

On the running argument between me and blade.

 

-Self sufficiency is when you can get everything you need by yourself, completely. No shops, no other players... nothing.

 

-Ok so you can kill cows for 3 months straight but thats not "Playing" the game, RS has a huge amount of gameplay and a huge map to roam about in, I hardly call it "Playing" if I had to stay in lumby for a quarter of a year

 

-Face it, you CANNOT be self sufficient and play the game, its not possible, sure you can kill level one monsters in Lumby but is that playing the game to any degree, no. Is watching the trailer to a movie, watching the movie, no.

 

-Sure, you can be pure combat if you include other players or low level cooking, but being SELF SUFFICIENT with just combat is impossible once you leave lumberage. Furthermore I have no idea where you got the idea that you get good cooked food drops from monsters? Sure, im not a high enough level to go bossing on anything but the mole but I know for a fact that on the common monster you get only a very small amount of food. And you cant go bossing without amazing armor and weapons which ummm, you cant get from only being reliant on combat

 

GF

[Shadiochao]

It seems that instead of thinking it is actually impossible, you're just arguing that it would be boring.

 

Saying something can survive does not necessarily mean it will also be fun or quick, so I don't understand why you keep bringing it up. There would be less to do, but the main bulk of it would still be there.

Your opinion on someone playing the game or not by just doing combat is irrelevant. The main point was if combat could survive by itself, not the details of why it would or wouldn't be a good idea.

 

I'm not sure what the difference is between buying from NPCs or killing them for stuff, but there are good healing items they drop. On top of using rune/arrow drops to safespot food droppers, some monsters can even drop thousands of Saradomin brews at a time. Even if you're not that lucky you could get a lot of food from saving up small amounts over time.

 

If there was something making it physically impossible for you to carry on training combat at any point without food, then I would understand your point. But saying it can't be done because it is boring is just not good enough.

[iiLy]

It seems that instead of thinking it is actually impossible, you're just arguing that it would be boring.

 

Saying something can survive does not necessarily mean it will also be fun or quick, so I don't understand why you keep bringing it up. There would be less to do, but the main bulk of it would still be there.

Your opinion on someone playing the game or not by just doing combat is irrelevant. The main point was if combat could survive by itself, not the details of why it would or wouldn't be a good idea.

 

I'm not sure what the difference is between buying from NPCs or killing them for stuff, but there are good healing items they drop. On top of using rune/arrow drops to safespot food droppers, some monsters can even drop thousands of Saradomin brews at a time. Even if you're not that lucky you could get a lot of food from saving up small amounts over time.

 

If there was something making it physically impossible for you to carry on training combat at any point without food, then I would understand your point. But saying it can't be done because it is boring is just not good enough.

 

Its also possible to save up a million dollars by picking up pennies, and I said that it is impossible to truly play the game by being self sufficient on combat only not impossible to level up, big difference bro.

 

What monsters can you fight with bronze weapons haha, self sufficiency is when everything that you own comes from yourself not from any outside sources. I believe that buying from a NPC is an outside source.

 

Try ranging monsters that can drop 100+ sara brews with a shortbow and any arrows you may find from killing monsters... good luck bro!

 

The problem with being self sufficient on combat alone is that it is almost impossible to acquire any decent gear, were will you get a good bow and a decent arrows if your fletching level is 1 and you cant buy any items?

 

How can you go bossing unless you have weapons and armor of a high caliber if you

1. Cant buy armor

2. Cant smith anything

 

I guess you can go to barrows, but once again how can you go to barrows unless you AT LEAST have decent armor and weapons.

 

Magic is maybe the only skill that you could train reasonably as there are many spawns of various types of runes across the map.

And the three major combat skills, well you can train them but without food then you would have to train on EXTREMELY low level monsters until you have decent combat stats (which would take a HUGE amount of time) to go kill maybe.. ummm flesh crawlers as you have NO consistent way of acquiring food so how can you kill higher level... anything?

 

True self sufficiency on combat restricts you to an extremely small amount of the game, which IMO is not playing at all.

[Shadiochao]

The NPC isn't the one using skills to make the stuff, so it shouldn't matter if you pay him or have him drop it for you.

If combat was the only thing you could do, where do you think the money to buy from an NPC would come from? In the end buying from an NPC or killing them is the same thing.

 

I'm pretty sure the main point was that it is just possible for combat to survive without the other skills. It can. It doesn't matter how hard, slow or boring it is, the fact is combat doesn't need skills.

[pulli23]

Besides it's not even "hard":

 

I can't remember when I bought food or went to find some armour. Also finding rune armour from monsters is much more easily than creating it yourself (and training for the levels).

 

 

 

But this isn't the point of the topic, the point to discus was the fairness of bots. And there are people who state "they lower prices and if skillers want money they should just come combat". - But with that attittude I ask the question: why leave skilling in the game? - Why not let jagex create a steady supply of "skilling goods" at the ge and just remove all skilling parts from the game to make the game better?

[Saunamajuri]

Besides it's not even "hard":

 

I can't remember when I bought food or went to find some armour. Also finding rune armour from monsters is much more easily than creating it yourself (and training for the levels).

 

 

 

But this isn't the point of the topic, the point to discus was the fairness of bots. And there are people who state "they lower prices and if skillers want money they should just come combat". - But with that attittude I ask the question: why leave skilling in the game? - Why not let jagex create a steady supply of "skilling goods" at the ge and just remove all skilling parts from the game to make the game better?

I like skilling more than combat, no matter how good money combat is or how heavily the game is based around combat. If skilling was to be removed from the game, I would quit for sure.

[Racheya]

Besides it's not even "hard":

 

I can't remember when I bought food or went to find some armour. Also finding rune armour from monsters is much more easily than creating it yourself (and training for the levels).

 

 

 

But this isn't the point of the topic, the point to discus was the fairness of bots. And there are people who state "they lower prices and if skillers want money they should just come combat". - But with that attittude I ask the question: why leave skilling in the game? - Why not let jagex create a steady supply of "skilling goods" at the ge and just remove all skilling parts from the game to make the game better?

I like skilling more than combat, no matter how good money combat is or how heavily the game is based around combat. If skilling was to be removed from the game, I would quit for sure.

I have to agree. No matter how bad skilling has become since bots took over, skilling is still a key part of the game and shouldn't just be dismissed because some people don't think it's worth anything any more.

[pulli23]

Besides it's not even "hard":

 

I can't remember when I bought food or went to find some armour. Also finding rune armour from monsters is much more easily than creating it yourself (and training for the levels).

 

 

 

But this isn't the point of the topic, the point to discus was the fairness of bots. And there are people who state "they lower prices and if skillers want money they should just come combat". - But with that attittude I ask the question: why leave skilling in the game? - Why not let jagex create a steady supply of "skilling goods" at the ge and just remove all skilling parts from the game to make the game better?

I like skilling more than combat, no matter how good money combat is or how heavily the game is based around combat. If skilling was to be removed from the game, I would quit for sure.

I have to agree. No matter how bad skilling has become since bots took over, skilling is still a key part of the game and shouldn't just be dismissed because some people don't think it's worth anything any more.

Well then take the stance that jagex should make sure bots are GONE.. And that botting is never ever something which should even be considered a possitive influence!

[iiLy]

Besides it's not even "hard":

 

I can't remember when I bought food or went to find some armour. Also finding rune armour from monsters is much more easily than creating it yourself (and training for the levels).

 

 

 

But this isn't the point of the topic, the point to discus was the fairness of bots. And there are people who state "they lower prices and if skillers want money they should just come combat". - But with that attittude I ask the question: why leave skilling in the game? - Why not let jagex create a steady supply of "skilling goods" at the ge and just remove all skilling parts from the game to make the game better?

 

Yeah, try killing monsters that drop rune armor without any weapons above mithril and full steel armor with no food, pots or familiars.

 

That may be your opinion, but I hate training combat and love skilling, If they removed skilling then many people would quit the game including me and many other people that I know.

 

Stop trying to force your OPINION on other people and playing it off like its a commonly known fact.

 

The NPC isn't the one using skills to make the stuff, so it shouldn't matter if you pay him or have him drop it for you.

If combat was the only thing you could do, where do you think the money to buy from an NPC would come from? In the end buying from an NPC or killing them is the same thing.

 

I'm pretty sure the main point was that it is just possible for combat to survive without the other skills. It can. It doesn't matter how hard, slow or boring it is, the fact is combat doesn't need skills.

 

Self sufficiency not NPC sufficiency, way to miss one of the key elements of my argument for the third time.

 

And of course you can pick up items as you killed the NPC as you did that YOURSELF, but buying goods from a store is not self sufficiency as you did no work to produce the item or any combat to get the drop.