Should Jagex start taking legal action against bots/rwters/hackers

[iamsomebody1]

I think Jagex should start tracking the ips of the botters/rwters/hackers and take them to court or fine them. It is illegal to sell virtual goods and also illegal to steal peoples accounts so these people need to be dealt with because they have no compassion for us genuine players (or anyone for that matter) another reason I think they should is because I think they would make some good money off it and then they can make better updates. Tell me what you all think (oh and if you read this Jagex do it plz)

[Fire_God]

Courts and lawyers are expensive. Would the cost of suing them and getting them to stop (temporarily) be worth the price they would pay for those weeks of no bots. No. They need to work on their bot detection and then actually BAN them!

[Xie]

another reason I think they should is because I think they would make some good money off it and then they can make better updates. Tell me what you all think (oh and if you read this Jagex do it plz)

ok why don't you pay for their legal fees.

[iamsomebody1]

The legal fees will be worth paying since they'll be making a load off em I'm not talking about the regular botters I'm talking about the ones who run 50 bots 24/7 those ppl thats like drug dealing they meet in rs and he walks by and puts 10m in guy pocket and looks away like he didnt do anything

[Serpent Eye]

I doubt they would invest their time, resources and money on countless lawsuits when they can't even be bothered to ban the people breaking the rules.

 

:thumbup:

[Miller7204]

It's a game....chill bro

[superbotter]

Well obviously it would be too expensive. Good luck subpoenaing all those ISPs into giving up names of botters/rwters/etc. Good luck suing them individually.

 

There's a reason even the RIAA stopped that sort of tactics, and they represented a multi-billion dollar industry. Jagex can't do anything against botters, and now they are everywhere. No real purpose left in playing honestly anymore...

[Cowman_133]

Wow. I've gone ahead and removed over half the posts from this topic that were either completely off topic or were personal attacks on other people.

 

Kindly knock it off and remain on the topic at hand rather than going into attacks on each other. Any other unnecessary comments will be removed and the posters warned. :thumbup:

 

Cowman_133

Tip.It Administrator

[sees_all1]

Actually, in other areas of law there are some strategies that have been successfully used many times.

For instance, in IP law, when a company knows that another group of companies is infringing on its rights, it will sue the "weakest" one, so that when they cave there will be a precedent. They also typically tend to sue in a country that has the laws most favorable to them.

 

Jagex has a successful history suing botting sites, I don't see what prevents them from suing RWTers.

[Nash]

The regular kids just botting because theyre stupid; hell no. Thats awful to even imagine watching jagex sue kids. Just ban em and flag their ip...

 

Those big sweat shops of bums over seas; im all for it.

 

 

 

As for all the recent bot/rwt/hacking discussions being raised around tif, rsc and rsof... I have to tell you guys something.

 

You Wanted Free Trade and Wildy Back.

 

Dont act dumb, you knew this was coming. So did Jagex. Stop complaining, go pk. Have fun, its a game.

[Xie]

Those big sweat shops of bums over seas

They are people.

[Star_Fox]

Wow. I've gone ahead and removed over half the posts from this topic that were either completely off topic or were personal attacks on other people.

 

Kindly knock it off and remain on the topic at hand rather than going into attacks on each other. Any other unnecessary comments will be removed and the posters warned. :thumbup:

 

Cowman_133

Tip.It Administrator

 

 

It's hilarious to note that over 5 mods visited this thread and only 1 administrator bothered to take care of cleaning up this thread. WTG MODS :rolleyes:

 

OT: They're not going to take action through announcing the public of their new motives to capture botters or rwting. That's just plain dumb. It's been done

countless times. There are Rwters/botters banned for breaking rules, we're just not aware of it since they're focusing more on upcoming updates which

is better left announced instead. When in silence, botters/rwters are more likely to be on the open for committing these foul play and when caught, Jagex

bans them without anyone noticing. This is probably their new tactic to capture rule breakers although I still have my doubts. :???:

 

Those big sweat shops of bums over seas

They are people.

 

So? :rolleyes: Not like they're contributing their lives to society. Why the [bleep] should we care?

[Nash]

Those big sweat shops of bums over seas

They are people.

 

 

I dont care.

 

 

 

 

As for Hackers theyve already been taking actions in the UK.

[Fairness]

Jagex shouldn't take legal action against bots because, for one, they would make themselves look dumb as they clearly wouldn't have any success, and for two, the wildy was killed in 2007 because Jagex went too far in persecuting bots IRL. (Which is not the problem, except for the fact that it didn't even succeed.) If Jagex wants to curb bots, they should just ban them as they come.

[Shadiochao]

Those big sweat shops of bums over seas

They are people.

 

So? :rolleyes: Not like they're contributing their lives to society. Why the [bleep] should we care?

 

Considering they've been reduced to working in a sweatshop, they're probably just trying to stay alive. I don't see how you can refuse to acknowledge them as people just because of that.

[Big_Stingman]

Wow it seems like half the threads in GD aren't even about RuneScape content anymore...

 

OT: No, they shouldn't.

[Star_Fox]

Those big sweat shops of bums over seas

They are people.

 

So? :rolleyes: Not like they're contributing their lives to society. Why the [bleep] should we care?

 

Considering they've been reduced to working in a sweatshop, they're probably just trying to stay alive. I don't see how you can refuse to acknowledge them as people just because of that.

 

Reduced is the problem. Going to school, getting decent grades, listening to parents, helping others,

volunteering to work part time or any of that would of at least put that person in a better position than

working at a lousy sweatshop. I wouldn't acknowledge them as the same as the people who is working hard

and making good money because that wouldn't be fair. I find that any people, who gives in a little effort

can succeed and ATLEAST make a decent living.

 

Also, sorry about my last post if it sounded a little harsh. I was not in the brightest mood that time.

 

Wow it seems like half the threads in GD aren't even about RuneScape content anymore...

 

OT: No, they shouldn't.

 

Welcome to TIF.

[Alphanos]

Those big sweat shops of bums over seas

They are people.

 

So? :rolleyes: Not like they're contributing their lives to society. Why the [bleep] should we care?

 

Considering they've been reduced to working in a sweatshop, they're probably just trying to stay alive. I don't see how you can refuse to acknowledge them as people just because of that.

 

Reduced is the problem. Going to school, getting decent grades, listening to parents, helping others,

volunteering to work part time or any of that would of at least put that person in a better position than

working at a lousy sweatshop. I wouldn't acknowledge them as the same as the people who is working hard

and making good money because that wouldn't be fair. I find that any people, who gives in a little effort

can succeed and ATLEAST make a decent living.

 

Also, sorry about my last post if it sounded a little harsh. I was not in the brightest mood that time.

 

I'm pretty sure they were talking about sweatshops in third-world countries. Your argument is quite western-centric.

[n64jive]

Jagex has lost the battle to bots, and they will continue to. R&D for their detection-software (which don't kid yourself, is nothing but logging events that happen) takes away from R&D for their game development. Plus they have to spend funds on hiring personnel to review all these reports/bans/etc. I'm sorry, but there is no way Jagex will ever win in this situation. Either way, they're going to lose money on the deal, which being a business, kind of goes against their main goal.

 

Sue the botters? The botters themselves aren't violating any laws. The devs of the botting sites may violate a few laws, and Jagex would be able to go against any royalties made off of them, however I still feel like that number would small in comparison.

 

What about the number of p2p players who would quit when their bots no longer work? I've said it before, and I'll say it again, most people don't care to waste their lives all day on something that isn't fun. the 90% grind that is runescape isn't appealing. The 10% you can do after that grind that is fun, is. People bot for a reason. Some to make money, others to enjoy the game. I would assume Jagex would lose more in membership fees then they would gain in suing for royalities against RWT fees(especially after court cost...Lawyers are expensive...I paid over $500 just to talk to one for a couple hours)....

 

I for one am sick of these threads. A new one is made every day. same [cabbage] different toilet....

[Makoto_the_Phoenix]

I think one may be mixing up what "illegal" and "unethical" mean.

 

Depending on one's jurisdiction, one may be prosecuted for violating the ToS of a company.

Depending on one's jurisdiction, one may be prosecuted for unauthorized access to a computer.

Depending on one's jurisdiction, one may be prosecuted for the transfer of digital goods between accounts, again running afoul of the ToS.

 

Looking at the legal precedent, Jagex can't sue someone for taking someone else's account and removing their items. Either the player or Jagex, though, may be able to prosecute based on unauthorized access to a computer. Of course, compromising one's account is certainly unethical, and should be severely frowned upon.

 

The Terms and Conditions of a company, on the other hand...the saying goes in the IT world that it isn't legally binding until it's been tried in court. I believe one such trial was stalled/thrown out/dismissed with Jagex suing the creator of a bot, because their intellectual property wasn't properly secured in the United States, so depending on how that shook out, and depending on how Jagex decided to retry legal proceedings, violation of ToS may be a complicated ordeal. Legally speaking. Again, this particular issue depends both on the jurisdiction of the person being sued (some countries won't give a damn, no matter how hard you try), and if the IP of the plaintiff is secured within the country that's overseeing the case.

 

Transferring digital goods in other games has always been a ticklish subject for many law professors and some CS students, myself included. In games such as Second Life, one can buy "virtual" property, and their currency [at one time or another] translates to real cash. To what measure, then, is it illegal to sell virtual land for real profit? Overgeneralization in this instance is dangerous since some games won't mind it - but in general, we "agree" that the items within the game are the sole property of Jagex, and it follows that we cannot sell what we don't own.

 

Jagex has been litigating against bot makers for years now. It's not cheap. It's not quick, either. And I'd like to see them victorious in their cases. Do I think that they're going about it the wrong way ? Sometimes; it's cheaper to improve your systems at home than it is to try to play legal whack-a-mole. I don't think they're sending enough of a statement to the bot makers, or the players that would want to be lazy enough to use bots with lawsuits, though.

[Fairness]

Those big sweat shops of bums over seas

They are people.

 

So? :rolleyes: Not like they're contributing their lives to society. Why the [bleep] should we care?

 

Considering they've been reduced to working in a sweatshop, they're probably just trying to stay alive. I don't see how you can refuse to acknowledge them as people just because of that.

 

Reduced is the problem. Going to school, getting decent grades, listening to parents, helping others,

volunteering to work part time or any of that would of at least put that person in a better position than

working at a lousy sweatshop. I wouldn't acknowledge them as the same as the people who is working hard

and making good money because that wouldn't be fair. I find that any people, who gives in a little effort

can succeed and ATLEAST make a decent living.

 

While we're there, we could stop famine and poverty in Africa once and for all.

[n64jive]

I think one may be mixing up what "illegal" and "unethical" mean.

 

Depending on one's jurisdiction, one may be prosecuted for violating the ToS of a company.

Depending on one's jurisdiction, one may be prosecuted for unauthorized access to a computer.

Depending on one's jurisdiction, one may be prosecuted for the transfer of digital goods between accounts, again running afoul of the ToS.

 

Looking at the legal precedent, Jagex can't sue someone for taking someone else's account and removing their items. Either the player or Jagex, though, may be able to prosecute based on unauthorized access to a computer. Of course, compromising one's account is certainly unethical, and should be severely frowned upon.

 

The Terms and Conditions of a company, on the other hand...the saying goes in the IT world that it isn't legally binding until it's been tried in court. I believe one such trial was stalled/thrown out/dismissed with Jagex suing the creator of a bot, because their intellectual property wasn't properly secured in the United States, so depending on how that shook out, and depending on how Jagex decided to retry legal proceedings, violation of ToS may be a complicated ordeal. Legally speaking. Again, this particular issue depends both on the jurisdiction of the person being sued (some countries won't give a damn, no matter how hard you try), and if the IP of the plaintiff is secured within the country that's overseeing the case.

 

Transferring digital goods in other games has always been a ticklish subject for many law professors and some CS students, myself included. In games such as Second Life, one can buy "virtual" property, and their currency [at one time or another] translates to real cash. To what measure, then, is it illegal to sell virtual land for real profit? Overgeneralization in this instance is dangerous since some games won't mind it - but in general, we "agree" that the items within the game are the sole property of Jagex, and it follows that we cannot sell what we don't own.

 

Jagex has been litigating against bot makers for years now. It's not cheap. It's not quick, either. And I'd like to see them victorious in their cases. Do I think that they're going about it the wrong way ? Sometimes; it's cheaper to improve your systems at home than it is to try to play legal whack-a-mole. I don't think they're sending enough of a statement to the bot makers, or the players that would want to be lazy enough to use bots with lawsuits, though.

 

 

Everything defined has loopholes. Take prostitution. Soliciting sex is against the law. However, if we take Prostitute A and rename her Escort A and take soliciting sex and rename it paying for companionship + consenting act between two adults, you have now just looped around prostitution, and they get away with it everywhere.

 

Lets apply this to virtual currency. We instead of charging cash per mill, we instead charge at an hourly rate to obtain said cash. So we are no longer selling the cash, but instead selling the time to obtain it. And a simple mathematical formula is all that seperates the two. And selling the gold simply becomes two rs players consenting in a trade.

 

As for legal battles against individual players. How did that play-out for the music industry? Sure you hear about 1 out of every million that actually gets tried for pirating music, however it didn't take the industry long to figure out that 1. they would never get the royalties to cover the legal process. 2. its not easy to find people illegally sharing music. 3. There are loopholes in the process for catching said person.

[Assume Nothing]

Wow, this thread again.

 

Botters are a problem. I acknowledge that. Suing them? You need to find a ground to sue them for, simply being the game rules is insufficient. I guess you could argue that it's the 'property' of JaGex, but I'm not sure how JaGex would argue that botting is indeed infringing JaGex's rights/whatever else you could come up with.

 

What jagex ought to be doing is: Remove the incentive to RWT/Bot/Phish. The skills system itself is flawed, with many skills (Mining, Agility, Wc, Firemaking, Fletching) being click and wait. Free trade is unnecessary and only adds to the problem (more incentive to phish/bot), when there *are* alternatives that players will continually neglect. And the password recovery system is also flawed.

 

As Makoto has pointed out, the first post of this thread has conflated.

 

Not quite sure where I'm going with this, I don't even know what's the point of this thread. I'll wait for a reply I guess

[iamsomebody1]

Jagex has lost the battle to bots, and they will continue to. R&D for their detection-software (which don't kid yourself, is nothing but logging events that happen) takes away from R&D for their game development. Plus they have to spend funds on hiring personnel to review all these reports/bans/etc. I'm sorry, but there is no way Jagex will ever win in this situation. Either way, they're going to lose money on the deal, which being a business, kind of goes against their main goal.

 

Sue the botters? The botters themselves aren't violating any laws. The devs of the botting sites may violate a few laws, and Jagex would be able to go against any royalties made off of them, however I still feel like that number would small in comparison.

 

What about the number of p2p players who would quit when their bots no longer work? I've said it before, and I'll say it again, most people don't care to waste their lives all day on something that isn't fun. the 90% grind that is runescape isn't appealing. The 10% you can do after that grind that is fun, is. People bot for a reason. Some to make money, others to enjoy the game. I would assume Jagex would lose more in membership fees then they would gain in suing for royalities against RWT fees(especially after court cost...Lawyers are expensive...I paid over $500 just to talk to one for a couple hours)....

 

I for one am sick of these threads. A new one is made every day. same [cabbage] different toilet....

 

They haven't lost the battle yet they can still turn things around with some big changes like A) Jagex selling gold (i know this would anger alot of people but honestly it will kill alot of bots/rwters) or B) Taking legal action against them. Also if they don't like grind then maybe these people should stop playing rs (or mmorpgs in general) and play there cod or w.e they find appealing. I for one enjoy coming home from a long day of work/school and listen 2 music/skill. if you play all day it's grinding if you play in moderation it shouldn't really be hard (unless someone has add but that's a whole different story)

[superbotter]

Jagex selling gold would stop the real world traders, but it wouldn't stop the bots at all. The majority of botters do bot for personal gain, and why buy gold when you can just bot it...