Revision of Policy

[Sy_Accursed]

The thing is:

The average rule breaker isn't likely to read the rules. If people have no regard for rules they do not bother to read them as it is a waste of their time.

 

Heck most average forum users don't even read the rules and simply learn them by being told when they cross them.

 

Also I see wkw's point but it is rather stupid imo. It is not Tip.its job to police how people play runescape, it is their job to police their forums which is what they are doing. Sure users may break runescape rules and NOT post about them, but that is no problem to the tip.it site; it is a problem to jagex staff.

[tripsis]

Just like how Jagex will ban you for scamming if you scam. Not if you tell them "hey Jagex, i scammed! Lolol!!!!"

 

You're basically saying that it is still ok as long as they dont admit to it. That solves nothing.

Jagex has abilities we do not. They can actually investigate trades that happen in-game and view in-game reports. We cannot. So if someone does something in-game but doesn't post about it, we would have no way to know that it happened. Even you would have no way of knowing that it happened. So it's not that we don't care if they do it or not, we simply have no way of knowing that they did it unless they post proof of themselves doing it or admit to doing it.

[Kimberly]

How it was before: They could do stuff, post stuff, say they did it, and have nothing done to them from the TIF staff

 

Poppycock. People have been warned/banned before for admitting to breaking Jagex rules. Your scenario is based on a flawed assumption.

[DyingSilent]

How it was before: They could do stuff, post stuff, say they did it, and have nothing done to them from the TIF staff

 

Poppycock. People have been warned/banned before for admitting to breaking Jagex rules. Your scenario is based on a flawed assumption.

 

I've seen plenty of people post pictures of scams, lures, etc. And yeah, they're still here. Flawed assumption, yup. :rolleyes:

[jimmy_jim]

How it was before: They could do stuff, post stuff, say they did it, and have nothing done to them from the TIF staff

 

Poppycock. People have been warned/banned before for admitting to breaking Jagex rules. Your scenario is based on a flawed assumption.

 

I've seen plenty of people post pictures of scams, lures, etc. And yeah, they're still here. Flawed assumption, yup. :rolleyes:

Report them then.

[D. V. Devnull]

<*reads through thread... sees flaming, but doesn't let it get to them*> :shades:

 

Glad to hear we'll be cracking down on those trolling and/or breaking RS rules now. Didn't know about the mass troll job going on in General and/or H&A, though. It's kinda odd news to my ears, given that I had not seen this kind of stuff happening there in the past. However, it looks like I'll have to give time for the dust to settle before I head near those again to help out f2p'er newbies. Good luck flushing them out while I go sit on the sidelines, so I don't accidentally get dinged for my own slightly wacky posting style. :mellow:

 

~D. V. "Damn trolls... They're giving better people a bad name who shouldn't get shot..." Devnull

[Rainy_Day]

How it was before: They could do stuff, post stuff, say they did it, and have nothing done to them from the TIF staff

 

Poppycock. People have been warned/banned before for admitting to breaking Jagex rules. Your scenario is based on a flawed assumption.

 

I've seen plenty of people post pictures of scams, lures, etc. And yeah, they're still here. Flawed assumption, yup. :rolleyes:

If you had read the rules, you would see that we rely on our users to report content. So thanks for complaining about it being there, but not helping us to remove it by actually reporting it. :thumbup:

 

Although the Tip.It Administrators and Moderators will attempt to remove posts/images that are objectionable or in violation of the stated forum rules, it is impossible for us to review all messages. The Report Post Function may be used to alert staff members of any inappropriate topics or posts.

[ghjkl]

So how can you prove that someone's rs account is linked to their tif account?

Not everyone (including me) actively displays their rsn.

[obfuscator]

 

EDIT - Forgot to add this to my post:

 

But now that you are saying "If you post it, we will take action", people won't post it. People posted during that bug beceause they knew tif didn't do anything.

So now, they won't be posting about bug abuse. Win - win.

http://forum.tip.it/topic/285258-an-epic-glitch-that-has-sadly-just-been-patched/

I'd like to hear admins thoughts on this. - Good to see that you're not supporting bug abuse in any way.

 

That was originally posted several months ago, so you can hardly expect us to take action on it now. Also, it's not abuse at the expense of anyone else, but that's just my personal opinion...

 

As for the rest of your post, we don't deal with individual discipline in public. If you feel you've been wronged in some way, feel free to pm an admin.

[Andy]

 

EDIT - Forgot to add this to my post:

 

But now that you are saying "If you post it, we will take action", people won't post it. People posted during that bug beceause they knew tif didn't do anything.

So now, they won't be posting about bug abuse. Win - win.

http://forum.tip.it/topic/285258-an-epic-glitch-that-has-sadly-just-been-patched/

I'd like to hear admins thoughts on this. - Good to see that you're not supporting bug abuse in any way.

 

That was originally posted several months ago, so you can hardly expect us to take action on it now. Also, it's not abuse at the expense of anyone else, but that's just my personal opinion...

 

As for the rest of your post, we don't deal with individual discipline in public. If you feel you've been wronged in some way, feel free to pm an admin.

"it's not abuse at the expense of anyone else, but that's just my personal opinion..."

So bug abuse that doesn't affect other people is okay? That wasn't made very clear in the rules.

 

The rest of my post is a discussion on the rules - I'll ask the questions again:

 

How occasional do you need to "troll" to become a person that "contributes nothing to to community."

 

Some people on the forums use scripts that an un-informed retired from runescape admin could easily mistake as against jagex's rules, which they aren't - resulting in people being banned for things that are not against runescape's rules. What do you say about having retired admins policing these rules?

[obfuscator]

 

"it's not abuse at the expense of anyone else, but that's just my personal opinion..."

So bug abuse that doesn't affect other people is okay? That wasn't made very clear in the rules.

 

Like I said, it's my personal opinion. That bug in no way benefited the player or harmed another player, so in my personal opinion I see nothing wrong with it. I never said I spoke for the staff as a whole, and I don't now.

 

The rest of my post is a discussion on the rules - I'll ask the questions again:

 

How occasional do you need to "troll" to become a person that "contributes nothing to to community."

 

There's no set amount of trolling that's deemed "acceptable". Following the rules and not trolling at all will help you stay ban and warn free.

 

Some people on the forums use scripts that an un-informed retired from runescape admin could easily mistake as against jagex's rules, which they aren't - resulting in people being banned for things that are not against runescape's rules. What do you say about having retired admins policing these rules?

 

 

I know that our administrators (not all of whom no longer play, by the way) carefully examine the rs rules whenever there is any accusation of rulebreaking and make a decision with integrity. If there is some case where you feel something has been done incorrectly, once again, pm an administrator.

[Andy]

 

"it's not abuse at the expense of anyone else, but that's just my personal opinion..."

So bug abuse that doesn't affect other people is okay? That wasn't made very clear in the rules.

 

Like I said, it's my personal opinion. That bug in no way benefited the player or harmed another player, so in my personal opinion I see nothing wrong with it. I never said I spoke for the staff as a whole, and I don't now.

Surely as a global moderator you should know the rules and be clear on them?

 

 

Some people on the forums use scripts that an un-informed retired from runescape admin could easily mistake as against jagex's rules, which they aren't - resulting in people being banned for things that are not against runescape's rules. What do you say about having retired admins policing these rules?

 

I know that our administrators (not all of whom no longer play, by the way) carefully examine the rs rules whenever there is any accusation of rulebreaking and make a decision with integrity. If there is some case where you feel something has been done incorrectly, once again, pm an administrator.

Nobody knows 100% that these "autoswitchers" as 99943th calls them are against the rules - jagex have never stated them to be against the rules or legal - it's up to the players to interpret the rules for themselves - an admin who does not play the game and has to interpret the rules for himself is going to make the wrong decision if all he has as guidance is his interpretation of the rules. - This is not a specific person but simply an example where the overly strict rules can cause wrong to people.

[Saru Inc]

I don't think it's asking too much that you abide by RuneScape rules and treat people with respect. As long as you do that, you don't really have to worry about violating a rule.

 

 

That implies that everyone deserves to be treated with respect though.

 

 

I guess its whatever though.

[DyingSilent]

We are not going to ban someone for posting a semi troll post once. We are only doing it to crack down on those who are obvious trolls, who contribute nothing to the community, who just post crap after crap. Not people who occasionally post a "troll" post every now and then and when it's appropriate (as appropriate as a troll post can be anyway).

 

There's no set amount of trolling that's deemed "acceptable". Following the rules and not trolling at all will help you stay ban and warn free.

 

Is it just me, or do these statements seem to conflict each other? I was told from an Admin that some trolling is acceptable when it's appropriate, and now I'm being told from a Mod that no trolling is allowed. Just my opinion, but I think you guys should discuss it between yourselves, before telling the public multiple different things.

[Kaphias]

We are not going to ban someone for posting a semi troll post once. We are only doing it to crack down on those who are obvious trolls, who contribute nothing to the community, who just post crap after crap. Not people who occasionally post a "troll" post every now and then and when it's appropriate (as appropriate as a troll post can be anyway).

 

There's no set amount of trolling that's deemed "acceptable". Following the rules and not trolling at all will help you stay ban and warn free.

 

Is it just me, or do these statements seem to conflict each other? I was told from an Admin that some trolling is acceptable when it's appropriate, and now I'm being told from a Mod that no trolling is allowed. Just my opinion, but I think you guys should discuss it between yourselves, before telling the public multiple different things.

It's just you.

[Andy]

We are not going to ban someone for posting a semi troll post once. We are only doing it to crack down on those who are obvious trolls, who contribute nothing to the community, who just post crap after crap. Not people who occasionally post a "troll" post every now and then and when it's appropriate (as appropriate as a troll post can be anyway).

 

There's no set amount of trolling that's deemed "acceptable". Following the rules and not trolling at all will help you stay ban and warn free.

 

Is it just me, or do these statements seem to conflict each other? I was told from an Admin that some trolling is acceptable when it's appropriate, and now I'm being told from a Mod that no trolling is allowed. Just my opinion, but I think you guys should discuss it between yourselves, before telling the public multiple different things.

It's just you.

It's most certainly not just him. This is an issue that needs to be addressed by a mod/admin.

[Vulxai]

We are not going to ban someone for posting a semi troll post once. We are only doing it to crack down on those who are obvious trolls, who contribute nothing to the community, who just post crap after crap. Not people who occasionally post a "troll" post every now and then and when it's appropriate (as appropriate as a troll post can be anyway).

 

There's no set amount of trolling that's deemed "acceptable". Following the rules and not trolling at all will help you stay ban and warn free.

 

Is it just me, or do these statements seem to conflict each other? I was told from an Admin that some trolling is acceptable when it's appropriate, and now I'm being told from a Mod that no trolling is allowed. Just my opinion, but I think you guys should discuss it between yourselves, before telling the public multiple different things.

 

There is no confliction in there. It comes down to, and always has, the moderators discretion. If a moderator feels it breaks the rules, they will take action. Not every moderator has the exact same take on things, and you cannot have a group of people who do. One might let it go, one might not and take action. To me, all users that are complaining right now are trying to find trolling loop holes. Don't troll and you won't have to worry about the rules, will you?

[Andy]

We are not going to ban someone for posting a semi troll post once. We are only doing it to crack down on those who are obvious trolls, who contribute nothing to the community, who just post crap after crap. Not people who occasionally post a "troll" post every now and then and when it's appropriate (as appropriate as a troll post can be anyway).

 

There's no set amount of trolling that's deemed "acceptable". Following the rules and not trolling at all will help you stay ban and warn free.

 

Is it just me, or do these statements seem to conflict each other? I was told from an Admin that some trolling is acceptable when it's appropriate, and now I'm being told from a Mod that no trolling is allowed. Just my opinion, but I think you guys should discuss it between yourselves, before telling the public multiple different things.

 

There is no confliction in there. It comes down to, and always has, the moderators discretion. If a moderator feels it breaks the rules, they will take action. Not every moderator has the exact same take on things, and you cannot have a group of people who do. One might let it go, one might not and take action. To me, all users that are complaining right now are trying to find trolling loop holes. Don't troll and you won't have to worry about the rules, will you?

This is not about "finding trolling loop holes" it's about the moderators and admins not fully agreeing on rules and these rules not being enforced the same way. Not to try and appeal my ban or anything - just using myself as an example here: I was banned for what I did not consider a "troll" post, but obviously a moderator did. Directly after I was banned darkdude posted that you could occasionally post a "troll" post - this shouldn't be happening. If darkdude had looked at my post, I wouldn't have been banned. The rules are not being enforced correctly and moderators/admins don't even seem to all agree with them.

[tripsis]

We are not going to ban someone for posting a semi troll post once. We are only doing it to crack down on those who are obvious trolls, who contribute nothing to the community, who just post crap after crap. Not people who occasionally post a "troll" post every now and then and when it's appropriate (as appropriate as a troll post can be anyway).

Why I was banned for posting a "troll" post, when my last warning was on September 03 2010? - How occasional do you need to "troll" to become a person that "contributes nothing to to community." -

Specific questions about your situation should be discussed in private - not here publicly.

 

what about using autoswitchers, a few people even admit to using them on here.

"They are against the Runescape and Jagex rules, therefore are against our rules too."

 

Some people on the forums use scripts that an un-informed retired from runescape admin could easily mistake as against jagex's rules, which they aren't - resulting in people being banned for things that are not against runescape's rules. What do you say about having retired admins policing these rules?

Whenever there isn't a clearcut black and white situation, such as someone using a script that could be against RS rules but isn't specifically mentioned as such, we always have a group discussion. A retired admin who is not in the loop of RuneScape-related things would know better than to handle such a situation by him/herself. We normally talk it out as a team and/or contact Jagex and ask them directly.

 

But now that you are saying "If you post it, we will take action", people won't post it. People posted during that bug beceause they knew tif didn't do anything.

So now, they won't be posting about bug abuse. Win - win.

http://forum.tip.it/topic/285258-an-epic-glitch-that-has-sadly-just-been-patched/

I'd like to hear admins thoughts on this. - Good to see that you're not supporting bug abuse in any way.

Checking out graphical bugs that do not actually affect your character, other characters or the economy, etc. in any way are not something that Jagex seems to care about and ban people for. As such, we wouldn't consider it the abuse of a bug, as it doesn't actually affect the game or give you any sort of gameplay advantage.

[Andy]

We are not going to ban someone for posting a semi troll post once. We are only doing it to crack down on those who are obvious trolls, who contribute nothing to the community, who just post crap after crap. Not people who occasionally post a "troll" post every now and then and when it's appropriate (as appropriate as a troll post can be anyway).

Why I was banned for posting a "troll" post, when my last warning was on September 03 2010? - How occasional do you need to "troll" to become a person that "contributes nothing to to community." -

Specific questions about your situation should be discussed in private - not here publicly.

I gave my situation for an example and my question was not about me. Address the question rather than my example.

 

what about using autoswitchers, a few people even admit to using them on here.

"They are against the Runescape and Jagex rules, therefore are against our rules too."

 

Some people on the forums use scripts that an un-informed retired from runescape admin could easily mistake as against jagex's rules, which they aren't - resulting in people being banned for things that are not against runescape's rules. What do you say about having retired admins policing these rules?

Whenever there isn't a clearcut black and white situation, such as someone using a script that could be against RS rules but isn't specifically mentioned as such, we always have a group discussion. A retired admin who is not in the loop of RuneScape-related things would know better than to handle such a situation by him/herself. We normally talk it out as a team and/or contact Jagex and ask them directly.

Good to know that it's dealt that way.

 

But now that you are saying "If you post it, we will take action", people won't post it. People posted during that bug beceause they knew tif didn't do anything.

So now, they won't be posting about bug abuse. Win - win.

http://forum.tip.it/topic/285258-an-epic-glitch-that-has-sadly-just-been-patched/

I'd like to hear admins thoughts on this. - Good to see that you're not supporting bug abuse in any way.

Checking out graphical bugs that do not actually affect your character, other characters or the economy, etc. in any way are not something that Jagex seems to care about and ban people for. As such, we wouldn't consider it the abuse of a bug, as it doesn't actually affect the game or give you any sort of gameplay advantage.

So If I wear full primal outside of a dungeon using a graphical bug and post it here's thats okay? It needs to be made more clear what is against the rules and what isn't.

[obfuscator]

Surely as a global moderator you should know the rules and be clear on them?

 

What I'm saying is that this is a case by case basis. It's not a black and white situation - we deal with it as it happens.

 

 

Nobody knows 100% that these "autoswitchers" as 99943th calls them are against the rules - jagex have never stated them to be against the rules or legal - it's up to the players to interpret the rules for themselves - an admin who does not play the game and has to interpret the rules for himself is going to make the wrong decision if all he has as guidance is his interpretation of the rules. - This is not a specific person but simply an example where the overly strict rules can cause wrong to people.

 

If Jagex has never sated them to be against the rules, then we can hardly make them against our rules, can we?

 

 

As for my previous statement, I meant there was no certain amount of trolling that's deemed acceptable. I never said that NO trolling was deemed acceptable, but once again it's not black and white.

[DyingSilent]

So, for the record...We may or may not get a ban/warning for making a post that might be considered a troll, depending on who the Mod is?

[obfuscator]

No, all I'm saying is use common sense.

 

Posting one troll post will not get you banned.

 

Repeatedly trolling after being warned multiple times for it will.

[Pat_61]

Did I miss understand this, you can be warned for posting a picture which has an obvious bot in it? Even if its not you?

[tripsis]

Did I miss understand this, you can be warned for posting a picture which has an obvious bot in it? Even if its not you?

We don't allow people to accuse others of violating the rules (section 1.5 - Naming Names). So if you want to post screenshots of people you think are bots, edit out the name. But as long as the names are edited out, it is perfectly acceptable to post those screenshots. But the thing we're addressing in this thread is people who openly admit to botting or violating other RuneScape rules themselves.