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Tip.It Times - 3rd July 2011


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#1
Racheya
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Time for a new release of the: >>>Tip.It Times!<<<

I'd like to remind people of the rules pertaining to Times threads:

Read these rules before posting in this thread


When replying please make sure to clarify the article you are replying to! Thanks!

If you spot any typos or mistakes in the article then please PM them to me :)

Enjoy the articles!


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#2
Jonanananas
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Quite nice articles this week ;)

I'm happy to see I fulfilled every requirement of Hamtaro :P


I fully agree with Crocefisso. It's just such a cheap trick, especially that consecutive months give more points. Unsubscribing for one month HURTS in this aspect, and I'm pretty sure it's an efficient way to squeeze one or two months out of those who are normally a member and only sometimes let their membership elapse. There is only one part where I think he's not right, and unfortunately it's the positive aspect: "At the end of the day, I do not believe for one second that many people will fall for this". I am pretty sure that the MLP works out as intended. Heck, for a second I've been thinking about resubscribing too, at least partly for that reason.

I'm also disappointed that so many people freak out over not getting points for membership in the past. It drowns out the other opinions on the MLP which show the problems with this kind of stuff...which would be way more important imo.


Also looking forward to the interview with S U O M I(Is it that hard to type?). It's kind of interesting how there's just a completely normal guy behind this account, who doesn not sacrifice everything for efficiency and honestly says he does what's fun for him and not *just* strive to get there first. Sounds like quite a nice guy :)

#3
Hobgoblinpie
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S U O M I has two spaces in certain places, and people seem to get confused :P

It's a very interesting read. Of course I'm bound to say that, but I do think it is very interesting.

#4
Jonanananas
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S U O M I has two spaces in certain places, and people seem to get confused :P

It's a very interesting read. Of course I'm bound to say that, but I do think it is very interesting.


Oh....now that explains a lot :P
I didn't even know that ;)

#5
Wessan
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Best article by far is the preview to the interview with SUOMI. SUOMI seems like a level-headed person, and I can relate to the fact that I cannot do merching either. I flat out suck at it. I really look forward to the rest of the interview.

The other two articles were good, but I feel they were more of a summary of a few topics discussed here in the forums over the past two weeks.

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#6
Dormado
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Allright, I do have to say the first article shocked me.

I always valued tip.it times as an informative source of runescape news and overviews, but to encounter something so blatantly incompetent in there...

Crocefisso who wrote the article clearly tried to represent only one side of the argument, he obviously was enraged, and he did well on hiding the rage though his brutal vulgarity showed up in some places like:

Not even Jagex’s abysmal trailer they produced for this update could distract from the stench of faeces



He also implied that such an update would never exite anyone beforehand, yet he obviously has no idea how many people (including me) eagerly waited for it, and were very happy with it.

After I read his statement that the rewards are useless I was confused, who exactly was his man, Crocefisso ? A troll? because if he is one, then good for him, he suceeded in making me rage. If not, then why write such blatant lies? yes, lies, most of that article was lies. Of course he has the right to have his own opinion (and I respect it), but to ignore any research that has been made on the aura effectiveness, (and mind you, we have the lowest of the lowest tier auras available now) is inexcusable.

I could dissect the article further and point out where the lies cross the typical RSOF ranter arguments (which, mind you, have all been negated by reasoning and research), but I see no need.
The clock is ticking, and your time is running out, mortals.

#7
jasignhagj
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First article was a bit strongly worded, although I agree with what was said. When I started the second article, I thought it would be just another 'don't tell your friend your password' article, but it was quite interesting and informative. The S U O M I interview looks like it will be a good read next week. He's definitely my choice for first to 200m.

EDIT: Strange, even if you double space using BBcode on one of the spaces, it still appears as a single space when displayed.

#8
Hamtaro
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@Dormado

It's not much of a loyalty rewards program. I've had membership for well over 60 consecutive months, but apparently I'm on par with some kid who was previously F2P and just got a Katana is just as loyal as I am? Why wasn't I rewarded for my over 60 consecutive months of pure loyalty? Because it's not a rewards program, it's alluring people to keep paying for membership even when they know they won't be playing (like the many who are only subscribed during the summer months). It also pressures F2P who were unsure of whether to go P2P or not to subscribe, not because of legitimate content, but because of rewards that can only be "earned" for months of membership (as opposed to actual content which could be completed whenever). The featured article stands as a dogmatic and rigorous critique of Jagex's money grabbing schemes from 2010 to 2011. Just because someone differs in opinion to you does not mean that it is trolling.

As the editor of the article, I would like you to please point out which "lies" that I apparently missed. Saying that research was ignored is not the same as providing research that discredits statements made in the article.
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#9
All_Is_Great
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The first article was pretty garbage. And that's the first time I've been this harsh with the Times.

Seriously? I get that articles can sometimes be biased, but that was just brutal. I do not agree with anything Crocefisso said, the MPL was very well executed IMO. Most rewards are only cosmetic, and even the auras themselves have limits which balance out their effects. I don't see anything wrong with a loyalty program, other companies do it ALL THE TIME, why can't Jagex? Lots of stores have point programs to give you incentive to keep on going to their store, and this is no different. The rewards are actually nice, and I for one am looking forward to next month where I can buy my "rofl" emote, with which I'll use to rofl at this article.

Also, using a youtube vids "likes/dislikes" ratio? "ROFL".

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#10
Articultural
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Unlike traditional goals of, for instance, level 99 in a particular skill, attaining 200 million xp in even a single skill is a test of efficiency, consistency, and the will to actually achieve it.


That's a perfect example of why efficiency is so mainstream nowadays, people don't see 99s as being hard anymore. Had you asked someone 5+ years ago whether getting 99 Agility, Mining, Slayer, Runecrafting or most other slower skills was a test if efficiency, consistency and the will to achieve it, I'm sure they would have agreed that it was.

It's not so much that people are suddenly more ambitious than ever before, it's the rapid increase in XP/h and popularity of the "99s are no big deal" mindset which has pushed people to set 200Ms as their goals.

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#11
dangerouslysafekid
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How often do you see EA or Bungie offering these sorts of schemes?


First of all, I don't think one could really compare a company like EA or Bungie with Jagex as the offered products are completely different.
However when you do compare the companies, wouldn't you agree that receiving a bonus for pre-ordering one of their upcomming games is just like the MLP? For a pre-order you often pay the full price, while when you would wait a week after a game comes out you can often already get the game for at least 5-10 bucks cheaper, but therefore also "less loyal".

Anyways, I personally think that Jagex is rewarding people in a maybe a little bit unoriginal manner, but nevertheless tons of poeple are satisfied with the program.
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#12
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@Dormado

It's not much of a loyalty rewards program. I've had membership for well over 60 consecutive months, but apparently I'm on par with some kid who was previously F2P and just got a Katana is just as loyal as I am? Why wasn't I rewarded for my over 60 consecutive months of pure loyalty? Because it's not a rewards program, it's alluring people to keep paying for membership even when they know they won't be playing (like the many who are only subscribed during the summer months). It also pressures F2P who were unsure of whether to go P2P or not to subscribe, not because of legitimate content, but because of rewards that can only be "earned" for months of membership (as opposed to actual content which could be completed whenever). The featured article stands as a dogmatic and rigorous critique of Jagex's money grabbing schemes from 2010 to 2011. Just because someone differs in opinion to you does not mean that it is trolling.

As the editor of the article, I would like you to please point out which "lies" that I apparently missed. Saying that research was ignored is not the same as providing research that discredits statements made in the article.



Allright, in a few days time ill make an article discrediting everything that was said.

Your argument about the previous membership is valid, but only partially, JaGEx chose to measure loyalty from a set point in time, which is the release of the loyalty rewards system, unfair? not really, they did provide arguments to why it was done so later, - they had some technical difficulties (i remember coming across a thread about it in RSOF, didn't read much into it, but ill search for it), and the main reason was that the ammount of people which would have very unproportionally more points is much lower than those who would have FAR less than them, which would lead to similiar ranting as yours, but reversed, and larger in several orders of magnitude.

And of course lets not forget JaGEx is a company, which needs to make money, so they want to release the program with everyone starting equal so the rewards would take longer to get, thus encouraging more people to (hopefully) remain subscribed longer

Somehow you seem to disregard the fact that they are actually making RuneScape, the game we play, if they're getting more money, we should be happy, not anything else.

Also, you don't have to remain subscibed to get the rewards, you can subscribe one month at a time, and still get points, albeit alot lower then you would get when many months in advance, (hence the term "loyalty"). Getting the top armour in game would take months upon months for an average player, if not years. I see no diffirence between this and waiting those months (even if you subsribe one month at a time, only when you play). Actually it's even better, it's free stuff you get for doing nothing.
The clock is ticking, and your time is running out, mortals.

#13
Low C
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I liked the S U O MI interview teaser, sorta wish they just waited to release the full interview though.

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#14
kamykazee
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And of course lets not forget JaGEx is a company, which needs to make money, so they want to release the program with everyone starting equal so the rewards would take longer to get, thus encouraging more people to (hopefully) remain subscribed longer


That's the whole point - they are 'forcing' people to get more membership by such methods instead of making them want to do it on their own for the quality of the content and game itself.

Somehow you seem to disregard the fact that they are actually making RuneScape, the game we play, if they're getting more money, we should be happy, not anything else.


Why should i be happy or care that they are making money? The only thing i care about, with regards to Runescape, is that i enjoy it. Sure, theoretically speaking more money can mean more investment into Runescape, but im not seeing that. All i'm seeing is more money in their pockets for an increasingly less relevant game.

I see no diffirence between this and waiting those months (even if you subsribe one month at a time, only when you play). Actually it's even better, it's free stuff you get for doing nothing.


Again, that's the point - you get things for doing nothing and it's all just to make you pay money for a game you aren't even playing.


The article about MLP was ok in my opinion. It voiced my views on it, although i dont play the game anymore so i can't really say that i care or am affected by it. I have to say that it was actually wrong by saying that the majority of players disliked the MLP. From reading several threads here my opiinion was that the community was divided about 60-40 in favour of the update. In any case there were atleast as many positive replies towards it as there were negative. Either way i think those who dislike it now will eventually get accustomed to it regardless.

The interview with SUOMI was predictable. No particular questions or answers that seemed interesting or any information that i couldn't obtain by searching the forums. Perhaps the full article will pose more challenging topics. Again my apathy towards it is probably due to the fact that i am not that active with regards to the Runescape community. Also it's possibly due to the fact that big hiscores names come and go - SUOMI is the flavour of the month now like others were years ago. The only interesting thing would be the achievement itself and not what the player thinks about it or his views on the subject. No disrespect towards him intended :)

Haven't read the second.

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#15
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I thought the MLP article was quite accurate. Not looking forward to the rest of Suomi's interview, because I don't like really long articles, which that one will be. Second article is really a no brainer, although I might actually go update my recovery questions now.

#16
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Okay, a couple things.

About EA, google "sin to win".

As for Bungie...

Also, many games are going free to play in order to get more customers.

I think all these principles we claim to have are more flexible than they appear to be.

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#17
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Suomi teaser was great. But I thought it was the actual interview at first :( I am hyped for next week though because of it!
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#18
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Alright, I'll await that article. Be sure to submit it as a Letter to the Editor as opposed to a guest article because it's replying directly to an article.

The set point in time is fine and good, but the thing is actual loyalty can't just me measured from a set point in time. If they were rewarding for actual loyalty, I would have 917k more loyalty reward points than what I was given this week. They aren't rewarding for loyalty at all, or I would have those points. From what I pulled out of your post, you're assuming that everyone is in a similar situation to players like us with perpetual membership. That's not the case at all...

I'm assuming you're familiar with what is known as the "summer crash" when many dump their P2P items before going F2P for 9 months at the end of summer. This obviously signifies that a good portion of players are only subscribed during the summer months when they are available to play. These three consecutive months will earn a dismal 8,500 points per year because according to Jagex, "Should you leave it for over 30 days, you will go right back to the start." If anyone wants to take advantage of these rewards and doesn't want to wait 10 years, they have to stay subscribed for 9 inactive months where they spend $45+ to do absolutely nothing with it. This also goes along with how Jagex runs bonus XP weekends. Instead of hosting ones during December and July when most are available to play, they host them in March and September to make people pay 30 days of membership for 3 days. Or how about Christmas of 2006 and 2010 when they had members only rewards? Jagex is essentially trying to get you to pay for not playing. From a business standpoint, it's brilliant, but from a PR standpoint, it's absolutely terrible.

It's shady marketing at best and I don't approve of it at all. Having more money doesn't mean a whole lot anyway. I would say that Jagex could use the money to hire more people to ban bots, but with this rollback BS, they probably just want $ from the bots too. Having more money here isn't improving the game - it's making it worse (inb4bots lower prices). The P2P game should be inherently entertaining enough in and of itself to draw members to its content. Not some points 12 days out of the year, bonus xp 6 days out of the year, and holiday events 4 days out of the year. This isn't pay-to-play anymore. It's pay-for-365-days-and-play-for-a-third-of-that. Sounds legit.

Instead of wasting dev time on garbage like this for artificially inflated membership numbers like this, they could be working on the Eastern Lands, the ROTM quest line, or even Prifddinas, which we have been waiting over 5 years for. This would actually improve the game instead of giving someone the ability to use a a hand shake emote (which doesn't even look like a hand shake...) or a barely useful aura (and how could I forget the extremely useful recolors and outfits + the totally unannoying titles).

RuneScape will never be looked upon as a respectable game by video game critics or anyone else if they continue crap like this. Just look what happened with Team Fortress 2 - it was an extremely popular game amongst the PC gamers until Valve started selling hats in the game (for real cash), which didn't quite collapse their player base, but certainly diminished it enough to have them release it for free on Steam. Strategies like this have failed in the past. They will certainly generate much temporary revenue, but will ultimately decline due to a lack of continuous substantial content (which is what I'm subbed for). If Jagex doesn't stop with these semi-microtransactions, so too will the enjoyment of the players fall into a dismal abyss of non existence.

@strilmus
Bungie is done with Halo other than tracking stats after the 7th of July (Bungie Day). That is a goodbye gift to their fans, not some quick marketing gimmick.
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#19
Guest_jrhairychest_
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The intention is purely to attract free players to the members’ game, and encourage current members to keep paying (especially when summer ends), with the enticing prospect of yet more content. I’ve never seen a lazier marketing ploy by a developer. Jagex are not offering these loyal customers of theirs anything new in terms of deeper gameplay, or anything even remotely as good; in a nutshell, they’re offering people who pay over extended periods of time the ability to make their avatar literally roll on the floor laughing.


Probably one of the daftest things I've ever read. I guess the likes of Tesco, Game etc. have it all completely wrong then. :rolleyes:

That's the whole point - they are 'forcing' people to get more membership by such methods instead of making them want to do it on their own for the quality of the content and game itself.


Nobody is forced to do anything. If players don't like it they don't pay. Simple.

Why should i be happy or care that they are making money? The only thing i care about, with regards to Runescape, is that i enjoy it. Sure, theoretically speaking more money can mean more investment into Runescape, but im not seeing that. All i'm seeing is more money in their pockets for an increasingly less relevant game.


They don't make money the game doesn't survive. You don't care because you've stated you don't play. I think the general playing population does care that the company makes money. I've seen enough updates over the last year to disagree with your investment statements. The money has to come from somewhere.

Again, that's the point - you get things for doing nothing and it's all just to make you pay money for a game you aren't even playing.


Actually there's many AFKers so technically some are already doing this. There are also the efficiency trolls pushing for 'xp while logged out'. . Never saw the point of it but hey [garden tool]..............

#20
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At the end of the day, my opinion boils down to this:

Jagex is a games company. The company part means that they are of course entitled to make money. But the games part means that they really should be doing it by making the game - the crux of their business, after all - a good quality product. This means ensuring that it is engaging, fun and so on.

Instead, they are trying to get people to play by offering lots of superficial rewards, none of which make any substantial difference to the game. Cramming a game with stuff does not make it a better game, and encouraging people to get these rewards quicker by not ending their subscription, even, as some do, putting it on hiatus, is a sly trick indeed. Coupled with the examples of devaluing the free game that I've mentioned in the article, none can deny that all of this is as transparent as it is lazy.


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