Botting in Runescape

[Carbi]

Please dont think that kids using bots learn anything about programming.

> google runescape bot > download > MOMMMYY ITS WORKING!! > 'Good, come eat breakfast now'

is most likely how it works to be honest.

[n64jive]

yea 1k players with higher ranks decide to just skip membership before bxpw, note that 1k player have not drooped out like that before... i think not.

I did not add those ranks to get the 10k, i did a simple analytically oversight, something i should have a fairly good sense of considering 3 years at uni doing more or less exactly that.

 

I'm sorry, I have never heard that term before, and google turns up nothing. Not really sure what you are saying you did...maybe you could explain your process.

 

Please dont think that kids using bots learn anything about programming.

> google runescape bot > download > MOMMMYY ITS WORKING!! > 'Good, come eat breakfast now'

is most likely how it works to be honest.

I would agree that a good percentage of the botting population are users and not developers. However, there is a good size developer based filled with some smart kids, as well as kids who aren't developers, but would like to learn.

 

Please don't generalize an entire group under one category. I could just as easily say that everyone who still plays runescape is a 12 year old kid or this guy:

 

[Carbi]

Yes, ofcourse, a few. should of mentioned that.

But most likely 95% or even more are users that are just lets say stupid.

[Fresi]

not everyone here has grown up with English, and some have dyslexia.

 

I do not feel the need to writhe you a report on my analyse of the nuke, just for you, as it seams to me that its clear that this is no usual subscription letdown, for all others than you. Feels like i had to explain that kids like candy in a essay if i had to do that.

 

analytically

in Spanish | in French | in Italian | English synonyms | in context | images

 

Concise Oxford English Dictionary © 2008 Oxford University Press:

analytical/anəˈlɪtɪkl/

▶adjective

relating to or using analysis or logical reasoning.

– derivatives

analytically adverb.

or is it oversight u do not understand? might be that you can not say it that way using english.

google translator tells me it should probably be overview.

[n64jive]

not everyone here has grown up with English, and some have dyslexia.

 

I do not feel the need to writhe you a report on my analyse of the nuke, just for you, as it seams to me that its clear that this is no usual subscription letdown, for all others than you. Feels like i had to explain that kids like candy in a essay if i had to do that.

 

analytically

in Spanish | in French | in Italian | English synonyms | in context | images

 

Concise Oxford English Dictionary © 2008 Oxford University Press:

analytical/anəˈlɪtɪkl/

▶adjective

relating to or using analysis or logical reasoning.

– derivatives

analytically adverb.

or is it oversight u do not understand? might be that you can not say it that way using english.

google translator tells me it should probably be overview.

 

English is my first language. The two, in combination, I have never heard of, and I figured it what some sort of process. I also laugh at the fact that you "define" analytical as "relating to or using analysis"...It's a good thing you told me.

 

And I wasn't asking you to write a report on the analysis of the nuke, just how you came up with the figure of 10k. Aren't you the one who mentioned you were in the programming industry, and how programmers these days are horrible, etc. I'll go back and check, but I would likely be fired if I submitted a report using specific figures, and I didn't explain how I came up with those figures. It's considered pretty nonsensical if you do.

 

EDIT: Just checked, and it was someone else.

 

Still, if you could let me know how you came up with 10k, I would appreciate it.

[Makoto_the_Phoenix]

Please dont think that kids using bots learn anything about programming.

> google runescape bot > download > MOMMMYY ITS WORKING!! > 'Good, come eat breakfast now'

is most likely how it works to be honest.

 

There is a huge difference between a script kiddie and any sort of hacker (whichever color hat they may be; white, black, grey, blue, etc).

[Danqazmlp]

As for the argument that it "teaches kids to cheat"...with that, I reply it's a video game. The same argument could apply that runescape teaches you to murder, steal, gamble, etc...(which is a ridiculous argument)...

 

Not really. When you cheat in a computer game, you are actively cheating. When you kill somebody in a computer game, you are not actively killing.

 

Ok, it is only a very small study, but cheating in games is not consequence free and as much as people want to say 'its just a game', it can have mental ramifications.

http://www.gamesradar.com/study-says-social-game-cheaters-more-likely-cheat-real-life/

[n64jive]

As for the argument that it "teaches kids to cheat"...with that, I reply it's a video game. The same argument could apply that runescape teaches you to murder, steal, gamble, etc...(which is a ridiculous argument)...

 

Not really. When you cheat in a computer game, you are actively cheating. When you kill somebody in a computer game, you are not actively killing.

 

Ok, it is only a very small study, but cheating in games is not consequence free and as much as people want to say 'its just a game', it can have mental ramifications.

http://www.gamesradar.com/study-says-social-game-cheaters-more-likely-cheat-real-life/

 

When I was in highschool, everyone cheated at some point. Doesn't make you a bad person.

 

Sorry, this study is pretty vague...

 

"Offering a few specifics, the report indicated 53% of social game cheaters said they had cheated on tests at school, over 43% revealed they'd stolen condiments from restaurants, and nearly half admitted to stepping out on a committed relationship."

 

As opposed to the number of people who don't cheat on video games? What if just roughly half of all people have cheated on a test...Stolen condiments from a restaurant...Wow...that's a horrible crime. And with divorce rates at around 50%, it's no surprised that half of people who aren't married have cheated...

 

Sorry, but bullshit studies are often...bullshit. For instance, over half of runescape players are virgins. Someone could interpret this as "They are virgins because they play runescape"...but in reality, they are virgins because they are 13....

[Danqazmlp]

As for the argument that it "teaches kids to cheat"...with that, I reply it's a video game. The same argument could apply that runescape teaches you to murder, steal, gamble, etc...(which is a ridiculous argument)...

 

Not really. When you cheat in a computer game, you are actively cheating. When you kill somebody in a computer game, you are not actively killing.

 

Ok, it is only a very small study, but cheating in games is not consequence free and as much as people want to say 'its just a game', it can have mental ramifications.

http://www.gamesradar.com/study-says-social-game-cheaters-more-likely-cheat-real-life/

 

When I was in highschool, everyone cheated at some point. Doesn't make you a bad person.

 

Sorry, this study is pretty vague...

 

"Offering a few specifics, the report indicated 53% of social game cheaters said they had cheated on tests at school, over 43% revealed they'd stolen condiments from restaurants, and nearly half admitted to stepping out on a committed relationship."

 

As opposed to the number of people who don't cheat on video games? What if just roughly half of all people have cheated on a test...Stolen condiments from a restaurant...Wow...that's a horrible crime. And with divorce rates at around 50%, it's no surprised that half of people who aren't married have cheated...

 

Sorry, but bullshit studies are often...bullshit. For instance, over half of runescape players are virgins. Someone could interpret this as "They are virgins because they play runescape"...but in reality, they are virgins because they are 13....

 

 

The difference is that cheating can be done at any age, so a link can be made. You seem to be entirely missing the point by assuming that just because a form of cheating or stealing isn't large scale it isn't still the wrong thing to do.

 

As I said, the numbers are incredibly small for a study, but do show that there is a high possibility that cheating in a computer game can lead to cheating in other aspects of life. This doesn't mean they are a certainty, but logically it makes sense. If you find that you can easily cheat in one aspect of life, cheating and the punishments that stem from them become less dramatic. In essence, desensitising you to the cheating. Now again, I say that the study was small and there may be problems with it, but the numbers are there and are quite dramatic.

 

The crux of my argument is that just because it is a game doesn't mean it has no link to real life.

[n64jive]

As for the argument that it "teaches kids to cheat"...with that, I reply it's a video game. The same argument could apply that runescape teaches you to murder, steal, gamble, etc...(which is a ridiculous argument)...

 

Not really. When you cheat in a computer game, you are actively cheating. When you kill somebody in a computer game, you are not actively killing.

 

Ok, it is only a very small study, but cheating in games is not consequence free and as much as people want to say 'its just a game', it can have mental ramifications.

http://www.gamesradar.com/study-says-social-game-cheaters-more-likely-cheat-real-life/

 

When I was in highschool, everyone cheated at some point. Doesn't make you a bad person.

 

Sorry, this study is pretty vague...

 

"Offering a few specifics, the report indicated 53% of social game cheaters said they had cheated on tests at school, over 43% revealed they'd stolen condiments from restaurants, and nearly half admitted to stepping out on a committed relationship."

 

As opposed to the number of people who don't cheat on video games? What if just roughly half of all people have cheated on a test...Stolen condiments from a restaurant...Wow...that's a horrible crime. And with divorce rates at around 50%, it's no surprised that half of people who aren't married have cheated...

 

Sorry, but bullshit studies are often...bullshit. For instance, over half of runescape players are virgins. Someone could interpret this as "They are virgins because they play runescape"...but in reality, they are virgins because they are 13....

 

 

The difference is that cheating can be done at any age, so a link can be made. You seem to be entirely missing the point by assuming that just because a form of cheating or stealing isn't large scale it isn't still the wrong thing to do.

 

As I said, the numbers are incredibly small for a study, but do show that there is a high possibility that cheating in a computer game can lead to cheating in other aspects of life. This doesn't mean they are a certainty, but logically it makes sense. If you find that you can easily cheat in one aspect of life, cheating and the punishments that stem from them become less dramatic. In essence, desensitising you to the cheating. Now again, I say that the study was small and there may be problems with it, but the numbers are there and are quite dramatic.

 

The crux of my argument is that just because it is a game doesn't mean it has no link to real life.

 

I would say you are way off base by saying that there isn't different levels of immortality. And the article is completely bogus. First off, one of their main selling points is stealing condiments. You know, that shit that McDonald's gives out for free.

 

You are stretching to even show a correlation, and even if you do make that comparison, you cannot say one caused the other. Maybe people who steal in other aspects of their life are more likely to cheat at video games. The study has no control. Maybe just 50% of all people cheat in some form or another. And the study only portrays that these percentage are based on at least 1 past experience. There is a huge difference between a person who actively steals/cheats/whatever versus a person who had in the past, at some point in their life.

 

You want to say that you dislike the people that cheat at this game, that is fine. But to try and compare botters with people who steal, or cheat on their wives/girlfriends is just retarded. People are people, and people behave differently in all sorts of situations, and much more, different people behave differently in different situations.

[Danqazmlp]

As for the argument that it "teaches kids to cheat"...with that, I reply it's a video game. The same argument could apply that runescape teaches you to murder, steal, gamble, etc...(which is a ridiculous argument)...

 

Not really. When you cheat in a computer game, you are actively cheating. When you kill somebody in a computer game, you are not actively killing.

 

Ok, it is only a very small study, but cheating in games is not consequence free and as much as people want to say 'its just a game', it can have mental ramifications.

http://www.gamesradar.com/study-says-social-game-cheaters-more-likely-cheat-real-life/

 

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

Danq you obviously arent posting that study if you dont agree with it. If you do agree with it I would say thats more telling about your personal biases then about cheaters.

 

Having seen your beliefs on the off-topic forum I am not surprised you feel this way.

 

 

 

Oh yeah Danq, I play runescape only to bug abuse. When I started it was the first time in years that runescape was fun outside of pvp. And while it would be "cheating" and "breaking" the game, it is a hell of a lot more fun and rewarding to sit there thinking about how to do something rather then repetitively sitting in a bank fletching logs all day and night

 

I posted the study because it shows that there is the possibility of a link. It is in direct confrontation with those who say that it is just a game, therefore doesn't matter and doesn't have any relation to real-life activities. Whether you believe it or not, it is there to show that cheating in a game is no different to cheating elsewhere in life, big or small, cheating is cheating.

 

I would like to know how you surmise my views in OT? Care to enlighten me?

 

If you play simply to bug abuse, you should be banned, short and simple. You are not enjoying the game for what it is, and what it strives to be, instead being a part in tearing down what many people worked hard to put together. Now if you did it for no personal gain in the game and reported all things you found so that they could be fixed, it would be a different matter. Put simply, many things in life may be fun, but we don't do them because it isn't the right thing to be doing.

 

EDIT: to your edit, if you want to feel rewarding, do something which actually benefits people. Learn to code for real, debug your own software, learn how to actually be helpful towards society for your kicks.

[n64jive]

As for the argument that it "teaches kids to cheat"...with that, I reply it's a video game. The same argument could apply that runescape teaches you to murder, steal, gamble, etc...(which is a ridiculous argument)...

 

Not really. When you cheat in a computer game, you are actively cheating. When you kill somebody in a computer game, you are not actively killing.

 

Ok, it is only a very small study, but cheating in games is not consequence free and as much as people want to say 'its just a game', it can have mental ramifications.

http://www.gamesradar.com/study-says-social-game-cheaters-more-likely-cheat-real-life/

 

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

Danq you obviously arent posting that study if you dont agree with it. If you do agree with it I would say thats more telling about your personal biases then about cheaters.

 

Having seen your beliefs on the off-topic forum I am not surprised you feel this way.

 

 

 

Oh yeah Danq, I play runescape only to bug abuse. When I started it was the first time in years that runescape was fun outside of pvp. And while it would be "cheating" and "breaking" the game, it is a hell of a lot more fun and rewarding to sit there thinking about how to do something rather then repetitively sitting in a bank fletching logs all day and night

 

I posted the study because it shows that there is the possibility of a link. It is in direct confrontation with those who say that it is just a game, therefore doesn't matter and doesn't have any relation to real-life activities. Whether you believe it or not, it is there to show that cheating in a game is no different to cheating elsewhere in life, big or small, cheating is cheating.

 

I would like to know how you surmise my views in OT? Care to enlighten me?

 

If you play simply to bug abuse, you should be banned, short and simple. You are not enjoying the game for what it is, and what it strives to be, instead being a part in tearing down what many people worked hard to put together. Now if you did it for no personal gain in the game and reported all things you found so that they could be fixed, it would be a different matter. Put simply, many things in life may be fun, but we don't do them because it isn't the right thing to be doing.

 

EDIT: to your edit, if you want to feel rewarding, do something which actually benefits people. Learn to code for real, debug your own software, learn how to actually be helpful towards society for your kicks.

 

Code for real?

[brunokiller]

@ring world Graphicals are at the same level as a 'bot' that can alch by clicking on the same spot every few seconds, not sure why you'd post a picture of that.

 

@danq Jagex doesn't care and they certainly don't care enough to debug their content (I almost think they put in bugs on purpose).

 

@n64 Coding real, like making something that doesn't destroy something another person has coded.

[rsp]

You will never know the satisfaction from debugging a script, but I can tell you solving a really difficult bug is a hell of a lot more rewarding then that 99.

 

Not that Im telling anyone to go down the cheaters road but there is definitely solid reasons NOT to play legit

 

Reserve the satisfaction of building and debugging software to get satisfaction out of your daily work, or at helping improve open source projects that offer useful functionality.

 

Don't do it as a means to cheat at multi-user games, ruining it for normal players!

 

If you like to combine programming and gaming, have a look at games where you program as part of the game and let your programs battle it out. Those types of game are a lot of fun, but a different kind of fun than you get out of games like RS.

[brunokiller]

@Brunokiller I posted that for the same reason that you censor your name even though everyone knows who you are. Also i love how it looks ;)

Better to be safe than sorry, and I have no burning desire to tell people my usernames.

[Nawty Zoot]

So far I have not seen one person who supports bots or cheating that has shown that cheating or bots it is better for the game. Nor have any of them proven that they are better people or better players because they bot or cheat.

[n64jive]

So far I have not seen one person who supports bots or cheating that has shown that cheating or bots it is better for the game. Nor have any of them proven that they are better people or better players because they bot or cheat.

 

"Instead of playing runescape, I let my bot play for me, while I went to the gym and worked out" -Person A

Person A is now a better person because he cheats.

 

"Instead of playing runescape, I study for my exams" -Person B

Person B is now a better person because he cheats.

 

"Instead of playing runescape, I volunteer at a the local hospital"-Person C

Person C is now a better person because he cheats.

[brunokiller]

So far I have not seen one person who supports bots or cheating that has shown that cheating or bots it is better for the game. Nor have any of them proven that they are better people or better players because they bot or cheat.

 

"Instead of playing runescape, I let my bot play for me, while I went to the gym and worked out" -Person A

Person A is now a better person because he cheats.

 

"Instead of playing runescape, I study for my exams" -Person B

Person B is now a better person because he cheats.

 

"Instead of playing runescape, I volunteer at a the local hospital"-Person C

Person C is now a better person because he cheats.

I fail to see how you must bot in order to study, volunteer or work out.

 

You can also, you know, NOT play runescape for a few hours and do all of the above?

[Platinum_Myr]

Yes.

 

The rules of the game state that using a bot program to play for you is not allowed. You need to explain precisely and logically *why* using a bot program is moral in this. The burden is on you, because the rule exists. Maybe the rule is immoral. But that is unlikely considering that the game is for entertainment purposes, and is designed by a company with the rules in place. They are not forcing you to play. If you don't want to play by the rules you shouldn't play. It is not your right for someone to provide entertainment at their expense (in this case maybe not financial). They can choose to offer whatever service they want to you for whatever price. You can choose to decline or accept.

 

You as the botter are breaking contract, and should not be allowed to play. Yes, there are times where breaking contract is immoral. But the burden of proof lies on you, not on the other end of the contract. In this case you aren't following an accepted moral highground for breaking that contract you sign up for by playing.

 

(I don't accept that botting prevents repetitive and unfun gameplay as a valid moral highground here. Simple: Don't play a game if it isn't fun. If you want a different game, go write that yourself, or pay someone else to make the game you want.)

 

Botting in runescape is quite similar steroids in sports. It gives you an unfair competitive advantage that the people who run the game don't want to allow. (Whether they can prevent you or not is an entirely different story.)

 

The game of runescape is (in part) a social game which botting helps lessen/destroy, because players might not be real. It is *in part* a competition about who can play better or more efficiently, which botting ruins because a legitimate player is not capable of playing as much as a bot forever. (Nor as precisely as a bot in some situations.)

 

Unless you can show these concerns false in general (not just for one user in particular!) or show a higher reason why botting should be acceptable, your position not sound.

[stonewall337]

As for the argument that it "teaches kids to cheat"...with that, I reply it's a video game. The same argument could apply that runescape teaches you to murder, steal, gamble, etc...(which is a ridiculous argument)...

 

Not really. When you cheat in a computer game, you are actively cheating. When you kill somebody in a computer game, you are not actively killing.

 

Ok, it is only a very small study, but cheating in games is not consequence free and as much as people want to say 'its just a game', it can have mental ramifications.

http://www.gamesradar.com/study-says-social-game-cheaters-more-likely-cheat-real-life/

 

When I was in highschool, everyone cheated at some point. Doesn't make you a bad person.

 

Sorry, this study is pretty vague...

 

"Offering a few specifics, the report indicated 53% of social game cheaters said they had cheated on tests at school, over 43% revealed they'd stolen condiments from restaurants, and nearly half admitted to stepping out on a committed relationship."

 

As opposed to the number of people who don't cheat on video games? What if just roughly half of all people have cheated on a test...Stolen condiments from a restaurant...Wow...that's a horrible crime. And with divorce rates at around 50%, it's no surprised that half of people who aren't married have cheated...

 

Sorry, but bullshit studies are often...bullshit. For instance, over half of runescape players are virgins. Someone could interpret this as "They are virgins because they play runescape"...but in reality, they are virgins because they are 13....

 

 

Well if they said "they are virgins cuz of RS" they'd be using the logical fallacy of correlation = causation.

[stonewall337]

So far I have not seen one person who supports bots or cheating that has shown that cheating or bots it is better for the game. Nor have any of them proven that they are better people or better players because they bot or cheat.

If you want to make that claim, then YOU have to defend WHY the burden of proof is on them. You havn't done so, as such the conclusion can be logically drawn that said burden of proof does not exist. (Philosophical burden of proof, we aren't talking legal here.)

 

 

EDIT: Sorry double post. Merge please.

[Veiva]

So far I have not seen one person who supports bots or cheating that has shown that cheating or bots it is better for the game. Nor have any of them proven that they are better people or better players because they bot or cheat.

 

The only basis from what I understand from the anti-bot crowd is that bot makers are breaking the Terms of Service, are infringing on Jagex's copyrights (as far as reflection bots are concerned), and/or are playing immorally (whatever that means) or against the spirit of the game. So, explain how these points hurt the game (e.g., your experience and enjoyment from playing RuneScape?). The only viable option is that low-level supply gathering (maybe all supply gathering) is not worth it, but other than that...

[Guest jrhairychest]

So far I have not seen one person who supports bots or cheating that has shown that cheating or bots it is better for the game. Nor have any of them proven that they are better people or better players because they bot or cheat.

 

The only basis from what I understand from the anti-bot crowd is that bot makers are breaking the Terms of Service, are infringing on Jagex's copyrights (as far as reflection bots are concerned), and/or are playing immorally (whatever that means) or against the spirit of the game. So, explain how these points hurt the game (e.g., your experience and enjoyment from playing RuneScape?). The only viable option is that low-level supply gathering (maybe all supply gathering) is not worth it, but other than that...

 

Does wanting a fair and level playing field ever have to be justified?

[stonewall337]

So far I have not seen one person who supports bots or cheating that has shown that cheating or bots it is better for the game. Nor have any of them proven that they are better people or better players because they bot or cheat.

 

The only basis from what I understand from the anti-bot crowd is that bot makers are breaking the Terms of Service, are infringing on Jagex's copyrights (as far as reflection bots are concerned), and/or are playing immorally (whatever that means) or against the spirit of the game. So, explain how these points hurt the game (e.g., your experience and enjoyment from playing RuneScape?). The only viable option is that low-level supply gathering (maybe all supply gathering) is not worth it, but other than that...

 

Does wanting a fair and level playing field ever have to be justified?

 

Um, yes? Everything has to be justified...or its baseless. That doesn't mean its HARD to do, but it is still necessary.

[n64jive]

So far I have not seen one person who supports bots or cheating that has shown that cheating or bots it is better for the game. Nor have any of them proven that they are better people or better players because they bot or cheat.

 

"Instead of playing runescape, I let my bot play for me, while I went to the gym and worked out" -Person A

Person A is now a better person because he cheats.

 

"Instead of playing runescape, I study for my exams" -Person B

Person B is now a better person because he cheats.

 

"Instead of playing runescape, I volunteer at a the local hospital"-Person C

Person C is now a better person because he cheats.

I fail to see how you must bot in order to study, volunteer or work out.

 

You can also, you know, NOT play runescape for a few hours and do all of the above?

 

Ah, yes, but can you do all of the above and play runescape?

 

Ok, so 24 hours in a day.

 

I spend 9 hours working, 8 hours sleeping, 2 hours eating. That leaves me 5 hours leisure time. If I work out every day, that leaves me 3 hours.

 

Let's say my end-game goal is to create an account I can stake with.

 

If one can obtain combat xp at an average rate of 60k xp an hour, that is a minimum of 215 days, or over 7 months just to get a maxed combat account.

Now let's say I need about 500m as a staking budget. That's going to take another 160 days or so.

 

You would have to dedicate over a year, playing every day, 3 hours a day, just to get to some end-game content.

 

or you could just buy it from some random player. It probably would cost you around $500, which is roughly 50 hours, or about a week of work for your average person, or 2 days of work for me.

 

And this is why people RWT....