Botting in Runescape

[JoWie]

Something being "pointless" without context is never a good argument (context: I want to do X, do I need Y?). Everything can be argued to be pointless, even existence itself.

[brunokiller]

n64, because cheating by its very definition is unfair and wrong?

[stonewall337]

n64, because cheating by its very definition is unfair and wrong?

The problem is that not everyone defines cheating the same. Is using Autohotkeys cheating? If using stev's macros to item switch at TDs cheating? What is cheating?

[brunokiller]

n64, because cheating by its very definition is unfair and wrong?

The problem is that not everyone defines cheating the same. Is using Autohotkeys cheating? If using stev's macros to item switch at TDs cheating? What is cheating?

Whatever jagex defines as cheating?...

[n64jive]

n64, because cheating by its very definition is unfair and wrong?

The problem is that not everyone defines cheating the same. Is using Autohotkeys cheating? If using stev's macros to item switch at TDs cheating? What is cheating?

 

Cheating is what jagex defines as cheating.

 

The problem here is, we have different groups of different people who have different views.

 

There is a group who follows all the rules and anything Jagex says, they do.

There is a group who is more about doing what makes them happy. If jagex's makes a rule, and they don't agree with it, they won't follow, because they think it is frivolous.

 

Within those groups are subgroups, and so fourth and so on.

 

I don't expect to change any of your views. They are your views, your opinions, and you can have them. But I ask the same from you. You shouldn't expect to change mine.

 

There is a good social aspect of MMO's, which I agree with. Then there is the other, anti-social aspect.

There is good and bad in this game. I feel the bad greatly outweighs the good, and I feel like the bot developer community (minus all the immature kids and leachers) had it right.

 

Again, these are all my opinions, I expect some (or most of you) to disagree. This is, after all, a fansite.

[brunokiller]

Why was the bot developer right? You know you're not being forced to grind anything, right?

[Danqazmlp]

cheat (cht)

v. cheat·ed, cheat·ing, cheats

v.tr.

1. To deceive by trickery; swindle: cheated customers by overcharging them for purchases.

2. To deprive by trickery; defraud: cheated them of their land.

3. To mislead; fool: illusions that cheat the eye.

4. To elude; escape: cheat death.

v.intr.

1. To act dishonestly; practice fraud.

2. To violate rules deliberately, as in a game: was accused of cheating at cards.

3. Informal To be sexually unfaithful: cheat on a spouse.

4. Baseball To position oneself closer to a certain area than is normal or expected: The shortstop cheated toward second base.

n.

1. An act of cheating; a fraud or swindle.

2. One who cheats; a swindler.

3. A computer application, password, or disallowed technique used to advance to a higher skill level in a computer video game.

4. Law Fraudulent acquisition of another's property.

5. Botany An annual European species of brome grass (Bromus secalinus) widely naturalized in temperate regions.

 

Only from an online dictionary, but you get the point. Just because you see the rules as wrong, doesn't mean you are cheating any less by not following them. As they creators of the game, they have the right to create the rules which they see fit, be them good or bad.

[Stev]

A lot of other MMOs, you start a new account and BAM! There's action right away. WarRock/Battlefield, for example. You start an account, you're given a gun and thrown into the game with immediate action. 15 seconds from registering and starting up the game, your in as much of the action that the game has to offer.

 

WulframII had a 15 hour training servers. Training was boring and a lot of people quit before reaching the good content. They didn't want to sign up to sit 'practicing' for any number of hours. They wanted to fill out the form and play with the big boys.

 

RuneScape is the same... Only people have a method to automate the training process. You sign up, get given a few GP, some runes and arrows, and are forced to grind like hell to reach anything even remotely close to good content. I remember each account I started, killing goblins, then guards, etc etc. It's boring as hell.

 

These people want to see and reach the good content but aren't willing to sit through countless hours of training to reach it.

 

It's a fault on Jagex' end. If they gave lower levels more crap to do then sit chopping trees, bank standing, etc... Give them a reason to play besides the, "Well, in 40 hours of playing grinding, I can unlock ___. Then I can do that for 80 hours until I can do ___. Then I can finally start to ___!" Honestly, what is there for lower levels to do? Boss hunt? Merch? Minigames? Grind?

[stonewall337]

Thus creation implies a unchangeable, unchallenged right to create whatever rules one wants?

[Veiva]

To those who support botting/botters, how about this analogy...? I am going to play Monopoly, but when no one looks take a $500 bill out of the coffers every chance. Everyone else has the ability to do so. I am not taking anything away from another player. But does it not ruin the enjoyment of the game? Does it not give me an advantage over the other players who chose to play by the rules? The claims that those who choose to play by the rules shouldn't is absolutely disgusting, in my opinion.

 

Let's add to this and say I find Monopoly boring at the beginning (e.g., low level: no houses and no monopolies). I only enjoy the Monopoly end game (every property bought up, hotels everywhere, four players or so). Does this give me the right to hurry the process up, just because I want to play the end game? No. Consequently, why do you think you should place yourselves above the rules in an online game? Is it because it's online? Or is it because you can get away with it so easily?

 

Rules are rules in order to make it fair for all players. They aren't there for silly reasons. How would anyone enjoy Monopoly if cheating was rampant and depreciated the achievements of others? Hmm? There would be no point in it. Just because everyone can bot, does not make it right, just as just because everyone can sneak a $500 out of the coffers every so often does not make it right. Right is defined by the rules of the game, in this case RuneScape, not by some self-defined interpretation.

 

Append: We are not talking about "real life" where morals are considered relative by the majority. We are talking about a game where the rules are set forth and should be followed. Otherwise, you're changing the game. If you don't like the grind, don't grind. Play one of those awesome MMOs that allow you to have fun from the start instead of sticking onto ill-conceived nostalgia.

[Jonanananas]

A lot of other MMOs, you start a new account and BAM! There's action right away. WarRock/Battlefield, for example. You start an account, you're given a gun and thrown into the game with immediate action. 15 seconds from registering and starting up the game, your in as much of the action that the game has to offer.

 

WulframII had a 15 hour training servers. Training was boring and a lot of people quit before reaching the good content. They didn't want to sign up to sit 'practicing' for any number of hours. They wanted to fill out the form and play with the big boys.

 

RuneScape is the same... Only people have a method to automate the training process. You sign up, get given a few GP, some runes and arrows, and are forced to grind like hell to reach anything even remotely close to good content. I remember each account I started, killing goblins, then guards, etc etc. It's boring as hell.

 

These people want to see and reach the good content but aren't willing to sit through countless hours of training to reach it.

 

It's a fault on Jagex' end. If they gave lower levels more crap to do then sit chopping trees, bank standing, etc... Give them a reason to play besides the, "Well, in 40 hours of playing grinding, I can unlock ___. Then I can do that for 80 hours until I can do ___. Then I can finally start to ___!" Honestly, what is there for lower levels to do? Boss hunt? Merch? Minigames? Grind?

 

I have reached everything I've wanted so far without real grinding(aka I've never felt really bored about doing it). Sure, I don't have access to all the equipment and content that I'd like to have....but I'm okay with that because for me, it wouldn't be worth the time to get there. For others, it may be. This is no reason for me to start botting. if you don't like the game, QUIT. If you're so bored at a game that you have to resort to cheating, why not just move on? It's not like there aren't any alternatives out there. Yes, Jagex is responsible for creating a game that encourages botting in this way, but that doesn't mean that the botter suddenly would have a justification. Let's face it, Runescape is in large parts built upon grinding, and it won't be possible to change that in such a drastic way that botting would suddenly become uninteresting. This is what Runescape is like, either play it or don't, but don't start cheating.

[Danqazmlp]

RuneScape is the same... Only people have a method to automate the training process. You sign up, get given a few GP, some runes and arrows, and are forced to grind like hell to reach anything even remotely close to good content. I remember each account I started, killing goblins, then guards, etc etc. It's boring as hell.

 

These people want to see and reach the good content but aren't willing to sit through countless hours of training to reach it.

 

It's a fault on Jagex' end. If they gave lower levels more crap to do then sit chopping trees, bank standing, etc... Give them a reason to play besides the, "Well, in 40 hours of playing grinding, I can unlock ___. Then I can do that for 80 hours until I can do ___. Then I can finally start to ___!" Honestly, what is there for lower levels to do? Boss hunt? Merch? Minigames? Grind?

 

A great many of us played at the lower levels without grinding. I would also bet a great many didn't know a thing about the endgame at the time. We all found the game fun, through quests, socialising, lower level minigames etc. Just because you don't find the hundreds of hours of content laid out over the last 10 years fun, then it does't give you the right to simply skip it. Again, nobody is forcing anybody to do anything. Don't like it? Don't play it. You gain the ability to do the endgame content by playing the game, it is a reward for the effort of playing.

[n64jive]

They can quit or they can cheat... It's up to jagex to do something about it... A better solution is to create content where less people will be inclined to cheat...

[Stev]

A better solution is to create content where less people will be inclined to cheat...

Which is the point I was trying to make.

 

And to note, I'm not in support of botters and I don't encourage it. I dislike them. However, with the way the current game is laid out I can understand their arguments as to why they would. Call it immoral or what ever you wish. It's a game. People cheat in relationships, on exams, in real life where there are real consequences. Of course people will be tempted and give into cheating on a game where there are no real consequences.

[Kimberly]

Most MMO's I see (and I don't think you can compare botting in other games to botting in MMOs) combat this problem by buying items that make leveling easier to get to the better content. It kills games like Conquer Online, AdventureQuestOnline, etc. I would rather stick with the typical MMO (where grinding is part n' parcel of the game) than see RuneScape go down that path. Not saying that's what you're arguing - just that they would take the easiest and most profitable solution, and I don't want them to do that.

[Platinum_Myr]

Hey guess what. Grind is a part of many real life skills. It can take *thousands* of hours to get good at instruments, sports, etc.

 

Many societies now are based on instant gratification though. We don't want to wait for good things, we want them right now. But I like having value to my achievements. It took time and energy. But when someone else gets it for free, (botting) it devalues my effort because they get the rewards without the work.

 

I think everyone talking here agrees. I agree with Stev, that more interesting content should be created for lower levels, but done in such a way that higher levels can't crash it. I'm not sure how this would work, although I think the best solution would be to instance the areas, so that higher level players literaly can't access the easier content. (Sort of like how each person has their own barrows brothers. but make their abilities/level increase as the player does)

 

Then again, instanced bosses have been on a wishlist of players for a long time.

[n64jive]

I think it has been Jage'x goal to avoid microtransactions, however just because they aren't selling the gold, doesn't mean other people aren't.

 

I assume the reason gold farmers exist is to sell the gold. Therefore, it's likely safe to say, that some of these "buy gold" sites are legitimate.

If Jagex would sanction the sale of gold through their own distribution, I would think more people would take that action then currently do through these shoddy sites.

 

I see an upside and a downside to it. The upside is the obvious that your "work" on runescape might have actual value. The downside is that the wealthy would inherently gain an advantage over those less fortunate in game.

 

I really don't know how many of Jagex's rules actually deter rule breakers. I wouldn't be deterred. My punishment is banishment from the game...which to me, is hardly punishment. They have tried to take a legal stance, which they have apparently won against a certain botting company, but I don't see it holding up in court against the users. If I was a judge, I would laugh at it.

 

Like I said before, I understand Jagex's rules, and why they set them, but to me, they are more hindering then good. I really don't care about my accomplishments in game, as to me, the stats are just a number, and the reason I trained them to the level I did was to access content in game. If I really had the urge to spend money to buy progress in this game, I would, simply because I value my time, and the experience I get from the game doesn't alleviate that value.

 

If I had the time to write scripts for the bots 6 months ago, I probably would have given it a shot. The challenge of automating the game while putting my programming skills to the test seems way more exciting to me then anything else the game has to offer.

 

But I didn't, and I won't.

 

Again, I understand why all of you who enjoy this game dislike bots. But at some point, I think it's important to understand there is more to life than runescape. (If you feel you already know this, then just ignore it...)

[Randox]

I think its worth fighting to keep the game the way it is, rather than cave to the instant gratification generation. As long as there are still enough of us that actually enjoy the game in its current format, it should stay that way, and people who don't like that should suck it up and not play (obviously people are going to try to cheat, but people do this in literally every game where its possible). When there aren't enough people left who enjoy RuneScape to keep it afloat, then it should go the way of Classic and make way for a new game, one that caters to people who want all the rewards without any of the work (which is a hilariously bad way to prepare you for life unless your born into old money).

 

As it stands, I would rather see RuneScape die honest to its roots and be replaced, than see it be destroyed by the people who feel the need to bot. I want to see the game go out with honor when the day comes.

[n64jive]

I think its worth fighting to keep the game the way it is, rather than cave to the instant gratification generation. As long as there are still enough of us that actually enjoy the game in its current format, it should stay that way, and people who don't like that should suck it up and not play (obviously people are going to try to cheat, but people do this in literally every game where its possible). When there aren't enough people left who enjoy RuneScape to keep it afloat, then it should go the way of Classic and make way for a new game, one that caters to people who want all the rewards without any of the work (which is a hilariously bad way to prepare you for life unless your born into old money).

 

As it stands, I would rather see RuneScape die honest to its roots and be replaced, than see it be destroyed by the people who feel the need to bot. I want to see the game go out with honor when the day comes.

 

You act as if most people don't work for real money. The only people who are going to see instant gratification are those who pay for it. Chances are, they had to work to get that money. If they didn't, then they fall into the category you mentioned above, in which case, they are already on easy street.

 

Sorry, but Runescape only consumes time from people, which is great for people who are looking to waste time. I would argue the game helps contribute to a lazy society...

[Bonez899]

I hope this won't get me screwed, but I've botted in the past and I feel really ashamed of it. I had an account with amazing stats which I could do just about anything with, I abandoned it and went to an account I had trained only by hand and abandoned at a time. I find the grinding very, grinding? but I also feel that it adds a level of accomplishment. I mean I have 900k until I reach level 96 cooking (all by hand) and I don't want to face it, but when I do and get the level I will feel a great level of accomplishment. As much as I hate playing and grinding I feel that if you stick with it you will feel accomplishment and want to play, currently in game I've played about 2 weeks over the past 3 months as I haven't really been in the mood for playing, but I've had that sense of accomplishment everytime that I log in with several hundred thousand xp til my next level and logged out with a ton less xp to go or even on a different level.

 

I don't like botting because it takes away from the main things I find in Runescape since the old community died, now that I can't have conversations when skilling that sense of accomplishment is what I have so I strive for it and enjoy it when I can, the only thing I can't wait for is when I achieve 99 cooking and my first ever 99 skill.

[Kimberly]

Again, I understand why all of you who enjoy this game dislike bots. But at some point, I think it's important to understand there is more to life than runescape. (If you feel you already know this, then just ignore it...)

 

What the heck does not liking bots have to do with "understanding there is more to life than runescape"? That's an insulting insinuation with very little grounds for saying it.

[Bonez899]

Again, I understand why all of you who enjoy this game dislike bots. But at some point, I think it's important to understand there is more to life than runescape. (If you feel you already know this, then just ignore it...)

 

What the heck does not liking bots have to do with "understanding there is more to life than runescape"? That's an insulting insinuation with very little grounds for saying it.

He is again saying that, runescape requires grinding and people want to enjoy what time they have, so when they bot they can have more enjoyment and less grind. But what is the destination without the journey?

[Platinum_Myr]

You achieve more moments of the initial satisfaction but it has less value. (The individual satisfaction is lower for me at least.) It also means we automatically begin to devalue other's achievements, because we believe that person didn't rightly do the work themselves.

 

If you value your time more than playing rs the answer isn't to bot rs, the answer is to not play rs. Very simple.

[n64jive]

^agreed...

[Fallstar]

Hey guess what. Grind is a part of many real life skills. It can take *thousands* of hours to get good at instruments, sports, etc.

 

Many societies now are based on instant gratification though. We don't want to wait for good things, we want them right now. But I like having value to my achievements. It took time and energy. But when someone else gets it for free, (botting) it devalues my effort because they get the rewards without the work.

 

I think everyone talking here agrees. I agree with Stev, that more interesting content should be created for lower levels, but done in such a way that higher levels can't crash it. I'm not sure how this would work, although I think the best solution would be to instance the areas, so that higher level players literaly can't access the easier content. (Sort of like how each person has their own barrows brothers. but make their abilities/level increase as the player does)

 

Then again, instanced bosses have been on a wishlist of players for a long time.

 

I agree here. People spend vast amounts of time on skills doing boring things to get to 'the good stuff' in terms of real life too. For example, the person who said that jacmob got lucky by breaking the rules. No he didn't. He spent a considerable amount of time working with computers, and after he has finished the bot problem will be moving onto working on the engine. Whilst his role at a botting site may have helped keep him in contact with Runescape, it is the fact that he worked for a long time that got him the job. Spending a long time working on something for a reward. Sounds familiar.