you're not editing it for Jagex, you're editing it for other players.

Unfortunately, as evidenced by the Zezima entry pictured above, some of those other players are only out to mess with the rest of us. The wiki will need to have some kind of editing control, otherwise it will become a horrible quagmire of ignorance and trolls. I think one 4chan on the internet is plenty. :P

That Barrows guide is one of the worst guides I have ever read. I simply can't get around the first-person tone of it and just the ridiculous number of grammatical and and spelling mistakes made.

 

To even suggest that you should try Barrows with a dlong and dsquare is just... :shock: I do however agree with the use of the RoW since you only need it as a ring switch when you actually open the chest.

 

I still do all of my barrows runs with at most 1 dose of prayer pot, recharging with ardy 3, and I can almost guarantee that I have faster and cheaper runs than what I would get with this piece of pure troll and garbage.

 

I don't understand how the RSWiki managed to remain so readable after so long, but props to them for doing it.

I don't understand how the RSWiki managed to remain so readable after so long, but props to them for doing it.

Very much more present player administration must have helped.

 

If it's wrong....correct it, that's the whole point. Eventually it will be totally correct. It's ridiculous to look at it and complain about it being wrong when you have the knowledge and capabilities to correct it, but instead you just sit back and sound 'sulky', you're not editing it for Jagex, you're editing it for other players.

This is what fansites are for, actually.

If it's wrong....correct it, that's the whole point. Eventually it will be totally correct. It's ridiculous to look at it and complain about it being wrong when you have the knowledge and capabilities to correct it, but instead you just sit back and sound 'sulky', you're not editing it for Jagex, you're editing it for other players.

I'd estimate that about a third of my work for Wikipedia has been spent dealing with vandals or people who add content that is against its guidelines, and therefore needs removing. I know people on there who spend their entire time on Wikipedia dealing with said nuisances, and as such they can't contribute meaningfully to article improvement. It's nice to imagine an altruistic world where everyone does want to help each other by collating their knowledge and sharing it with everyone else, however, I know from personal experience that it takes one *hell* of a lot of work to do that successfully without others ruining it back down again.

 

At least on Wikipedia, I can fall back on WP:V to remove incorrect/contentious content, or WP:NOTE for stuff that's completely useless, and if that fails, I can just get someone else to back me up through WP:Consensus. I would hate to imagine dealing with the same issues on this new RS Wiki, because I know if I tried to fix whatever's wrong, some other idiot will just wreck it again.

 

If I'm giving my time to help other players, I should do it in the knowledge that the organisation (Jagex in this case) is backing up the work I do and protecting it from people who want to destroy my efforts.

Lastly, I don't think you can assure me that new players are coming to the game and loving it, not unless you're privy to some marketing information that the rest of the world isn't.

 

Firstly apologies for the delay in responding...

 

I can't give you stats I told you that (and stats are likely to be incorrect because of the loss of bots), I only have my own experience, these screen shots were taken in a few moments of each other. You show me how this indicates that f2p is dying? Can you see that players are queuing to kill cows? They appear to have run out of goblins too :grin: Look at the number of white dots! And not a bot in sight, these are all real people, mostly new and enjoying their RS experience. :thumbsup:

 

 

 

If it's wrong....correct it, that's the whole point. Eventually it will be totally correct. It's ridiculous to look at it and complain about it being wrong when you have the knowledge and capabilities to correct it, but instead you just sit back and sound 'sulky', you're not editing it for Jagex, you're editing it for other players.

I'd estimate that about a third of my work for Wikipedia has been spent dealing with vandals or people who add content that is against its guidelines, and therefore needs removing. I know people on there who spend their entire time on Wikipedia dealing with said nuisances, and as such they can't contribute meaningfully to article improvement. It's nice to imagine an altruistic world where everyone does want to help each other by collating their knowledge and sharing it with everyone else, however, I know from personal experience that it takes one *hell* of a lot of work to do that successfully without others ruining it back down again.

 

At least on Wikipedia, I can fall back on WP:V to remove incorrect/contentious content, or WP:NOTE for stuff that's completely useless, and if that fails, I can just get someone else to back me up through WP:Consensus. I would hate to imagine dealing with the same issues on this new RS Wiki, because I know if I tried to fix whatever's wrong, some other idiot will just wreck it again.

 

If I'm giving my time to help other players, I should do it in the knowledge that the organisation (Jagex in this case) is backing up the work I do and protecting it from people who want to destroy my efforts.

 

I think your point is well made, I agree that if you are putting the effort in it needs to work both ways.

Lastly, I don't think you can assure me that new players are coming to the game and loving it, not unless you're privy to some marketing information that the rest of the world isn't.

 

Firstly apologies for the delay in responding...

 

I can't give you stats I told you that (and stats are likely to be incorrect because of the loss of bots), I only have my own experience, these screen shots were taken in a few moments of each other. You show me how this indicates that f2p is dying? Can you see that players are queuing to kill cows? They appear to have run out of goblins too :grin: Look at the number of white dots! And not a bot in sight, these are all real people, mostly new and enjoying their RS experience. :thumbsup:

 

-snip-

 

 

You're fine on the response. it's a holiday so I wouldn't expect dynamic replies anyway :P

 

As for the pictures...those don't really show anything. How do we know that those aren't pures training up at the very early stages? How can we be sure that these are straight-up green rookies coming over and playing RuneScape? How can we be sure that they're not gold farmers training their accounts at the very early stages? There's very little that these pictures demonstrate outside of a few accounts on an F2P server. Alternatively, it could show how few players are actually on the server (I notice that the server capacity is "missing" from that collection of pictures).

 

Maybe F2P isn't dying, but I'm just not convinced by the evidence you've put forward.

Lastly, I don't think you can assure me that new players are coming to the game and loving it, not unless you're privy to some marketing information that the rest of the world isn't.

 

Firstly apologies for the delay in responding...

 

I can't give you stats I told you that (and stats are likely to be incorrect because of the loss of bots), I only have my own experience, these screen shots were taken in a few moments of each other. You show me how this indicates that f2p is dying? Can you see that players are queuing to kill cows? They appear to have run out of goblins too :grin: Look at the number of white dots! And not a bot in sight, these are all real people, mostly new and enjoying their RS experience. :thumbsup:

 

 

 

 

Yes, look at those joyful faces, all killing cows. You do understand that the pictures you posted prove nothing, right? You don't measure "happiness" by judging the first 5 minutes of a new player's life, of which you didn't even provide verbal feedback from.

Did you run an extensive survey about the F2P community's hatred towards the new updates? No? Then you have no facts either, my friend.

 

I'm still not sure why people are saying "F2P is dying!" Is this about that whole highscores thing?

Yeah Chee, its ex players who still haunt these forums for whatever reason and 'pure' F2Pers who are looking for a reason to rage and doomsay.

 

Fact is, New members join every day fellas. It doesn't matter if you believe it or not in reality, Does it? You've provided no proof on the fact that the game is dying but you're quick to jump at someone who posts some pictures. Oh and how do we know that those aren't actually new players who are enjoying the game? Just because you don't believe it doesn't make it any less true. Quite sad really.

I think that Jagex is going the wrong direction in limiting F2P even more. RuneScape didn't and does not attract people by it's graphics and gameplay. It grew so big because it was free and playable on almost any computer in a webbrowser. Now you can argue that there are many more reasons but those are the main ones.

While other game companies are going the other direction, making more content free, Jagex is going the opposite. WoW (recently?) became free until level 20 and even more recent DC Universe Online became free. Also, not MMORPGs, Portal and Team Fortress 2 were free for a limited time on Steam.

 

Game companies make their games free to play for everyone when their game isn't selling good and they are successfull. If ad revenue isn't enough to run the game profitably there are other ways to earn money than aquiring more and more subscriptions. Microtransactions is one example.

Does that invalid his/her point? The evidence is insufficient - it only shows a part of any alleged progress that can be justified with plausible alternate viewpoints.

 

No, I'm a pretty realistic guy. I prefer to "trust, but verify", as someone named Ren would put it. Not to mention, the main point of debate is to not only make an argument, but have it backed by fact and not conjecture. I'm merely asking for facts, as I believed that Erewhon could provide them.

 

Yes, yes she bothered to get those screenshots just to make it all up. :rolleyes:. A tad silly to lecture me on debate. I've debated enough with you in the past where the debate's got the better of you so you do your ninja thing and magically disappear. Erewhon2 offered up more evidence in that single post than either of you have in the entire thread.

Does that invalid his/her point? The evidence is insufficient - it only shows a part of any alleged progress that can be justified with plausible alternate viewpoints.

 

No, I'm a pretty realistic guy. I prefer to "trust, but verify", as someone named Ren would put it. Not to mention, the main point of debate is to not only make an argument, but have it backed by fact and not conjecture. I'm merely asking for facts, as I believed that Erewhon could provide them.

 

Yes, yes she bothered to get those screenshots just to make it all up. :rolleyes:. A tad silly to lecture me on debate. I've debated enough with you in the past where the debate's got the better of you so you do your ninja thing and magically disappear. Erewhon2 offered up more evidence in that single post than either of you have in the entire thread.

 

Observational note; It's amusing and somewhat ironic that you profess prowess in debate, yet you still commit very basic flaws in reasoning/language (basic fallacies).

 

Please don't avoid the question though - did what you say invalidate his/her point?

Does that invalid his/her point? The evidence is insufficient - it only shows a part of any alleged progress that can be justified with plausible alternate viewpoints.

 

No, I'm a pretty realistic guy. I prefer to "trust, but verify", as someone named Ren would put it. Not to mention, the main point of debate is to not only make an argument, but have it backed by fact and not conjecture. I'm merely asking for facts, as I believed that Erewhon could provide them.

 

Yes, yes she bothered to get those screenshots just to make it all up. :rolleyes:. A tad silly to lecture me on debate. I've debated enough with you in the past where the debate's got the better of you so you do your ninja thing and magically disappear. Erewhon2 offered up more evidence in that single post than either of you have in the entire thread.

 

Observational note; It's amusing and somewhat ironic that you profess prowess in debate, yet you still commit very basic flaws in reasoning/language (basic fallacies).

 

Please don't avoid the question though - did what you say invalidate his/her point?

 

All I ever see him do is talk about people ranting and complaining. He does this by ranting and complaining about the ranters and complainers. :rolleyes:

Does that invalid his/her point? The evidence is insufficient - it only shows a part of any alleged progress that can be justified with plausible alternate viewpoints.

 

No, I'm a pretty realistic guy. I prefer to "trust, but verify", as someone named Ren would put it. Not to mention, the main point of debate is to not only make an argument, but have it backed by fact and not conjecture. I'm merely asking for facts, as I believed that Erewhon could provide them.

 

Yes, yes she bothered to get those screenshots just to make it all up. :rolleyes:. A tad silly to lecture me on debate. I've debated enough with you in the past where the debate's got the better of you so you do your ninja thing and magically disappear. Erewhon2 offered up more evidence in that single post than either of you have in the entire thread.

 

It seems that, every time I reply, you seem less interested in debating my points, and more interested in making attacks.. But that's besides the point. If you want to have an argument with me for whatever reason, feel free to take it to PM. If you want to debate, let's refrain from the personal attacks. :)

 

More to your point, no I don't think she was "making it all up" with those screenshots. I'm saying that the screenshots don't give concrete evidence to prove her case. That's all I'm saying. If you want to chime in with proof of your own to back her point up, feel free at any time.

 

[skeptic - I'm a male. ;)]

Newbies have limitations, normal. Doing 25K Limitation does not stop these people. Just slow down.

Once they have enough stuff, then just do more.

 

Currently, I used to know about some neural networks are doing extremely well, Hard to trace (No exactly methods) and be able to act like animals.

Jagex currently now block the stupid one, not the smart one since the smart one never read the stream, using backward to simulate the human work.

 

The construction is very difficult, even got, still have not enough evidence to prove guilty.

I'm still a little frustrated at this update. F2p merchants can no longer sell things like partyhats due to the 25k limit. Although they can just buy a membership for a month, I still find this unfair. Also, the high scores things makes me a little upset. I am going f2p next month, and I would still like to have my name on the high scores like everyone else.

The 25K limit is only on accounts made after the update. Existing accounts don't have any trade limitations. Current high end merchants won't be affected.

I'm still a little frustrated at this update. F2p merchants can no longer sell things like partyhats due to the 25k limit. Although they can just buy a membership for a month, I still find this unfair. Also, the high scores things makes me a little upset. I am going f2p next month, and I would still like to have my name on the high scores like everyone else.

 

I think if the account was created before the update it doesn't have the restriction. I'm not a 100% sure though.

 

And Makoto, anyone could make that mistake. :razz:

Observational note; It's amusing and somewhat ironic that you profess prowess in debate, yet you still commit very basic flaws in reasoning/language (basic fallacies).

 

Please don't avoid the question though - did what you say invalidate his/her point?

 

 

It seems that, every time I reply, you seem less interested in debating my points, and more interested in making attacks.. But that's besides the point. If you want to have an argument with me for whatever reason, feel free to take it to PM. If you want to debate, let's refrain from the personal attacks. :)

 

More to your point, no I don't think she was "making it all up" with those screenshots. I'm saying that the screenshots don't give concrete evidence to prove her case. That's all I'm saying. If you want to chime in with proof of your own to back her point up, feel free at any time.

 

[skeptic - I'm a male. ;)]

 

Sorry fellas you're going to have to a lot better than that. "Oh that's a logical fallacy" or "you're personally attacking me" doesn't work with me. Evidence has been provided and it's up to you to disprove it. She's actually been there, Makato, in free worlds and played. You haven't. You don't play. That makes her evidence more "solid" than your prophecies of doom. Don't forget that you're the same guy who states that F2P is boring without a single shread of evidence to prove your case.

Observational note; It's amusing and somewhat ironic that you profess prowess in debate, yet you still commit very basic flaws in reasoning/language (basic fallacies).

 

Please don't avoid the question though - did what you say invalidate his/her point?

 

 

It seems that, every time I reply, you seem less interested in debating my points, and more interested in making attacks.. But that's besides the point. If you want to have an argument with me for whatever reason, feel free to take it to PM. If you want to debate, let's refrain from the personal attacks. :)

 

More to your point, no I don't think she was "making it all up" with those screenshots. I'm saying that the screenshots don't give concrete evidence to prove her case. That's all I'm saying. If you want to chime in with proof of your own to back her point up, feel free at any time.

 

[skeptic - I'm a male. ;)]

 

Sorry fellas you're going to have to a lot better than that. "Oh that's a logical fallacy" or "you're personally attacking me" doesn't work with me. Evidence has been provided and it's up to you to disprove it. She's actually been there, Makato, in free worlds and played. You haven't. You don't play. That makes her evidence more "solid" than your prophecies of doom. Don't forget that you're the same guy who states that F2P is boring without a single shread of evidence to prove your case.

 

I'm not even sure which proposition you're claiming to be supporting. All I saw (and thus responded to) were a poor attempt at invalidating an argument by claiming that the opposition 'would've said it anyways' - leaving the truth value of the opposition's proposition unaltered.

 

My take on the argument would be that there is definitely resentment within the f2p community - evidently seen in forum posts - but I cannot be certain as to whether it is dying of inactivity. Please don't confuse my position with the other posters on this thread.

 

As a sidenote, logical fallacies weaken arguments - the very term is an alternative to saying 'flawed reasoning'. If you profess prowess in debate, you ought to be capable of avoiding the said flawed reasoning - you can't just tell someone 'it doesn't cut it' - the strength of your own argument doesn't change when you exclaim it.

 

Let's not digress any further - did what you say invalidate what Makato said? I agree, we did not post any counter evidence. However, we're simply pointing out why the evidence may not work - and you have failed to invalidate it for approximately three times.

 

This argument feels a little like this;

 

Just a note for reference purposes -- a friend of mine spotted some "bots" collecting toads in Grand Tree. We investigated them and they appeared to be bots to us. Had a couple of pmods within my clan check 'em out and they reported them too.

 

There wasn't a lot of them -- maybe 2 to 5 per world, but they were on more than one world operating all at the same time.

 

I mention this here with the hope that peeps keep an eye out for these bots and report 'em when you see them.

 

:unsure:

A lot of the "bots"are just good old fashioned chinese sweat-farm workers.

I've explained before - SIMBA and SCAR remain open.

 

The pandemic is over, the battle is won. The war, however, has just begun.

Jagex never claimed that bots would not return. They've made it quite clear up until this point that fighting bots will be an ongoing objective. Therefore, I don't see why there's so much surprise about bots--a tiny minority compared to how many there were before--returning. I'd also take up Merc's point... it is very difficult to identify something with that much certainty over the Internet when you can't actually see who's on the other end of the computer. Unbalanced trade still exists, and humans will still participate in RWT.