New Skill?

[Sinkhan]

It wouldn't necessarily be better, but I feel like they could add just as much novelty and utility by revamping out-of-date skills as they could with making a completely new skill.

[Will H]

RuneScape doesn't need a new skill. It needs to vastly improve some of the skills it already has.

And you believe that because........?

 

 

Why would fixing a skill be better than a new skill?

 

Some skills, or rather how they're trained, are so boring that they actually detract from the game experience, and negative experiences tend to influence the player's opinion of the game than a positive experience. Firemaking and Runecrafting are the obvious contenders here. I still whine to this day about being made to get 70 Runecrafting to wield a Celestial Surgebox for Dungeoneering.

[Kimberly]

RuneScape doesn't need a new skill. It needs to vastly improve some of the skills it already has.

And you believe that because........?

 

 

Why would fixing a skill be better than a new skill?

 

Some skills, or rather how they're trained, are so boring that they actually detract from the game experience, and negative experiences tend to influence the player's opinion of the game than a positive experience. Firemaking and Runecrafting are the obvious contenders here. I still whine to this day about being made to get 70 Runecrafting to wield a Celestial Surgebox for Dungeoneering.

 

Even if Runecrafting was 'fixed' you would have still encountered training other skills to continue to speed up Dungeoneering training. Perhaps your comparison wasn't the best choice >_>

[Carl]

Indeed, Will_H. Dungeoneering detracts from my gaming experience because there's so many benefits to be had from training it to a high level...But the skill itself and the method you require is so boring it makes it horrible. I'd rather train Firemaking or Runecrafting over it, any day.

 

Fix DG Jagex!

[Saradomin_Mage]

Indeed, Will_H. Dungeoneering detracts from my gaming experience because there's so many benefits to be had from training it to a high level...But the skill itself and the method you require is so boring it makes it horrible. I'd rather train Firemaking or Runecrafting over it, any day.

 

Fix DG Jagex!

I'd say that they've tried to make various fixes to make your initial foray into Dungeoneering less painful (lower boss monster difficulty, improved XP, etc) but I think the engine they released Dungeoneering under was just too limited to make a truly dynamic environment that would really get you into the skill.

[Carl]

Indeed, Will_H. Dungeoneering detracts from my gaming experience because there's so many benefits to be had from training it to a high level...But the skill itself and the method you require is so boring it makes it horrible. I'd rather train Firemaking or Runecrafting over it, any day.

 

Fix DG Jagex!

I'd say that they've tried to make various fixes to make your initial foray into Dungeoneering less painful (lower boss monster difficulty, improved XP, etc) but I think the engine they released Dungeoneering under was just too limited to make a truly dynamic environment that would really get you into the skill.

 

My main problem with the skill is the fact doing it alone is awfully slow. You need to do it with a group. We should have the option to train a skill and receive equal amounts of XP as anyone else trianing, solo or in a group.I may have enjoyed that a lot more. I don't like having people depend on me, or playing and being unable to nip out for a few minutes.

[Sorator]

Indeed, Will_H. Dungeoneering detracts from my gaming experience because there's so many benefits to be had from training it to a high level...But the skill itself and the method you require is so boring it makes it horrible. I'd rather train Firemaking or Runecrafting over it, any day.

 

Fix DG Jagex!

I'd say that they've tried to make various fixes to make your initial foray into Dungeoneering less painful (lower boss monster difficulty, improved XP, etc) but I think the engine they released Dungeoneering under was just too limited to make a truly dynamic environment that would really get you into the skill.

 

My main problem with the skill is the fact doing it alone is awfully slow. You need to do it with a group. We should have the option to train a skill and receive equal amounts of XP as anyone else trianing, solo or in a group.I may have enjoyed that a lot more. I don't like having people depend on me, or playing and being unable to nip out for a few minutes.

THIS is my issue with Dungeoneering. And yet whenever I try to explain that to someone who likes Dungeoneering and thinks I would too if I only tried it one more time doing such-and-such slightly differently, they completely ignore me. It's wonderfully maddening.

[The Dark Lord]

Leadership skill

Engineering skill

Medic skill

Necromancer skill

[Sy_Accursed]

Indeed, Will_H. Dungeoneering detracts from my gaming experience because there's so many benefits to be had from training it to a high level...But the skill itself and the method you require is so boring it makes it horrible. I'd rather train Firemaking or Runecrafting over it, any day.

 

Fix DG Jagex!

I'd say that they've tried to make various fixes to make your initial foray into Dungeoneering less painful (lower boss monster difficulty, improved XP, etc) but I think the engine they released Dungeoneering under was just too limited to make a truly dynamic environment that would really get you into the skill.

 

My main problem with the skill is the fact doing it alone is awfully slow. You need to do it with a group. We should have the option to train a skill and receive equal amounts of XP as anyone else trianing, solo or in a group.I may have enjoyed that a lot more. I don't like having people depend on me, or playing and being unable to nip out for a few minutes.

THIS is my issue with Dungeoneering. And yet whenever I try to explain that to someone who likes Dungeoneering and thinks I would too if I only tried it one more time doing such-and-such slightly differently, they completely ignore me. It's wonderfully maddening.

 

Personally I can see jagex's view of why teams are more xp; but I still think solo should atleast be comparable even if slower.

Eg say a 12 min med nets a team around 40k xp, same floor solo should still net atleast 30k xp (assuming all variables other than team mates match like deaths, bonus rooms % etc. etc.)

[Ginger_Warrior]

So you want to turn a skill that necessitates genuine skill in teamworking, organisation and leadership in order to reach the highest XP rates, into (yet another) skill that can be done and dusted with X hours of solitary grind?

 

If anything, RuneScape needs to go the opposite direction to the one you're suggesting. The skills that are in real need of renovation are ones like Smithing, Firemaking and RuneCrafting where the above is exactly the problem with it, where success is nothing more than lazy measure of time spent rather than talent displayed.

[Quyneax]

[hide]

Indeed, Will_H. Dungeoneering detracts from my gaming experience because there's so many benefits to be had from training it to a high level...But the skill itself and the method you require is so boring it makes it horrible. I'd rather train Firemaking or Runecrafting over it, any day.

 

Fix DG Jagex!

I'd say that they've tried to make various fixes to make your initial foray into Dungeoneering less painful (lower boss monster difficulty, improved XP, etc) but I think the engine they released Dungeoneering under was just too limited to make a truly dynamic environment that would really get you into the skill.

 

My main problem with the skill is the fact doing it alone is awfully slow. You need to do it with a group. We should have the option to train a skill and receive equal amounts of XP as anyone else trianing, solo or in a group.I may have enjoyed that a lot more. I don't like having people depend on me, or playing and being unable to nip out for a few minutes.

THIS is my issue with Dungeoneering. And yet whenever I try to explain that to someone who likes Dungeoneering and thinks I would too if I only tried it one more time doing such-and-such slightly differently, they completely ignore me. It's wonderfully maddening.

[/hide]

 

Personally I can see jagex's view of why teams are more xp; but I still think solo should atleast be comparable even if slower.

Eg say a 12 min med nets a team around 40k xp, same floor solo should still net atleast 30k xp (assuming all variables other than team mates match like deaths, bonus rooms % etc. etc.)

Solo shouldn't be the same xp as teaming imo, just like rocktails shouldn't be close to barbarian fishing. One requires much more skill than the other. It's far harder to get a good team of five together than it is to use your own ring of kinship and just do a couple of floors. It's also far harder to communicate between five. A good team is much more than just five people soloing and the exchance of information is the extra difficulty that makes teaming harder. Solo, it's much easier to survive as well, you can basically only die if you choose to or at low combat levels (much the same with slayer/bossing).

[Platinum_Myr]

I wish the xp actually related closer to the skill of the team. I've found that even when I'm good.. soloing a floor is far less experience than being on a *subpar* team. This is simply because the team gets more xp overall. What I don't like about dg is how much effort it is to get 5 people together to complete a floor. We need a much better system than shouting what floors you want. Yes, this wouldn't work for the power/pro players who want the best teams. But it would help getting newer players into the skill faster by reducing the amount of effort required to get a team started.

 

I would love to see duo-trio style minigames or other things for other skills which provided either a lot less grind or quicker overall XP for working together with a friend. Right now, most of the game (besides minigames, a few D&Ds, bosses, and dg) is not really cooperative. I would love to see where you can get 2/3 people together and work on smithing together in ways where each action compliments the other person's goals. Sort of like the blast furnace, but actually *worth* doing, and not requiring full on 5-6+ people who don't all get the benefits.

 

This would promote in-game action together rather than just grinding out levels while I chat with friends.

[pulli23]

I wish the xp actually related closer to the skill of the team. I've found that even when I'm good.. soloing a floor is far less experience than being on a *subpar* team. This is simply because the team gets more xp overall. What I don't like about dg is how much effort it is to get 5 people together to complete a floor. We need a much better system than shouting what floors you want. Yes, this wouldn't work for the power/pro players who want the best teams. But it would help getting newer players into the skill faster by reducing the amount of effort required to get a team started.

 

I would love to see duo-trio style minigames or other things for other skills which provided either a lot less grind or quicker overall XP for working together with a friend. Right now, most of the game (besides minigames, a few D&Ds, bosses, and dg) is not really cooperative. I would love to see where you can get 2/3 people together and work on smithing together in ways where each action compliments the other person's goals. Sort of like the blast furnace, but actually *worth* doing, and not requiring full on 5-6+ people who don't all get the benefits.

 

This would promote in-game action together rather than just grinding out levels while I chat with friends.

Maybe they should add a "global dg lobby" - simply outside the game a specific unlimited chat lobby with 1 extra feature: to form a team and then as team join a world (and be teleported to DG). From this global dg lobby they should obviously also add some "automatic form teams" method, where you just wait a minute or 5 and then you're given 5 mates of near equal lvls.

[Saradomin_Mage]

I wish the xp actually related closer to the skill of the team. I've found that even when I'm good.. soloing a floor is far less experience than being on a *subpar* team. This is simply because the team gets more xp overall. What I don't like about dg is how much effort it is to get 5 people together to complete a floor. We need a much better system than shouting what floors you want. Yes, this wouldn't work for the power/pro players who want the best teams. But it would help getting newer players into the skill faster by reducing the amount of effort required to get a team started.

 

I would love to see duo-trio style minigames or other things for other skills which provided either a lot less grind or quicker overall XP for working together with a friend. Right now, most of the game (besides minigames, a few D&Ds, bosses, and dg) is not really cooperative. I would love to see where you can get 2/3 people together and work on smithing together in ways where each action compliments the other person's goals. Sort of like the blast furnace, but actually *worth* doing, and not requiring full on 5-6+ people who don't all get the benefits.

 

This would promote in-game action together rather than just grinding out levels while I chat with friends.

Maybe they should add a "global dg lobby" - simply outside the game a specific unlimited chat lobby with 1 extra feature: to form a team and then as team join a world (and be teleported to DG). From this global dg lobby they should obviously also add some "automatic form teams" method, where you just wait a minute or 5 and then you're given 5 mates of near equal lvls.

Those auto-select rooms have existed since the beginning of Dungeoneering, it's just that for some reason, no one ever puts them to their intended use.

[pulli23]

I wish the xp actually related closer to the skill of the team. I've found that even when I'm good.. soloing a floor is far less experience than being on a *subpar* team. This is simply because the team gets more xp overall. What I don't like about dg is how much effort it is to get 5 people together to complete a floor. We need a much better system than shouting what floors you want. Yes, this wouldn't work for the power/pro players who want the best teams. But it would help getting newer players into the skill faster by reducing the amount of effort required to get a team started.

 

I would love to see duo-trio style minigames or other things for other skills which provided either a lot less grind or quicker overall XP for working together with a friend. Right now, most of the game (besides minigames, a few D&Ds, bosses, and dg) is not really cooperative. I would love to see where you can get 2/3 people together and work on smithing together in ways where each action compliments the other person's goals. Sort of like the blast furnace, but actually *worth* doing, and not requiring full on 5-6+ people who don't all get the benefits.

 

This would promote in-game action together rather than just grinding out levels while I chat with friends.

Maybe they should add a "global dg lobby" - simply outside the game a specific unlimited chat lobby with 1 extra feature: to form a team and then as team join a world (and be teleported to DG). From this global dg lobby they should obviously also add some "automatic form teams" method, where you just wait a minute or 5 and then you're given 5 mates of near equal lvls.

Those auto-select rooms have existed since the beginning of Dungeoneering, it's just that for some reason, no one ever puts them to their intended use.

 

Cause it's not "easy" to use.. Many other games have auto selection and it works there. However in rs you simply have to stay online, and there are only 2k possible candidates (and on top of that, they only assign based on open floors, not based on skill levels). Those kind of rooms need a lot of momentum before getting popular.

[Quyneax]

I wish the xp actually related closer to the skill of the team. I've found that even when I'm good.. soloing a floor is far less experience than being on a *subpar* team. This is simply because the team gets more xp overall. What I don't like about dg is how much effort it is to get 5 people together to complete a floor. We need a much better system than shouting what floors you want. Yes, this wouldn't work for the power/pro players who want the best teams. But it would help getting newer players into the skill faster by reducing the amount of effort required to get a team started.

 

I would love to see duo-trio style minigames or other things for other skills which provided either a lot less grind or quicker overall XP for working together with a friend. Right now, most of the game (besides minigames, a few D&Ds, bosses, and dg) is not really cooperative. I would love to see where you can get 2/3 people together and work on smithing together in ways where each action compliments the other person's goals. Sort of like the blast furnace, but actually *worth* doing, and not requiring full on 5-6+ people who don't all get the benefits.

 

This would promote in-game action together rather than just grinding out levels while I chat with friends.

Quite agree with your second point.

 

It's actually faster to play solo if you're good (at 120-150k xp/hr solo vs. 40 minute larges). A subpar team isn't that much worse than solo, but not better.

[Sy_Accursed]

I think the issue we see here is the opposition of play styles.

It's all very well and good saying team dg is harder due to team skills etc etc. and sure that may justify solo being slightly lesser xp. But it certainly does not justify the massive gulf of xp difference currently existing that totally alienates anyone with a play style that prefers going it alone whether thats through personal taste or due to lag issues or w/e.

By all means dg as a team earning more is a good idea and it'd be nice to see more skills with teamwork based options. But it should not be a case where the xp rate is so vastly different that doing it alone, should you wish too, is not really a viable training method.

 

Personally I think my suggestion where by solo is around 25% less xp is still a reasonable gap to promote teamwork but not such a gulf that doing it solo is utterly pointless in terms of xp:hr; keeps the best of both worlds.

[pulli23]

I think the issue we see here is the opposition of play styles.

It's all very well and good saying team dg is harder due to team skills etc etc. and sure that may justify solo being slightly lesser xp. But it certainly does not justify the massive gulf of xp difference currently existing that totally alienates anyone with a play style that prefers going it alone whether thats through personal taste or due to lag issues or w/e.

By all means dg as a team earning more is a good idea and it'd be nice to see more skills with teamwork based options. But it should not be a case where the xp rate is so vastly different that doing it alone, should you wish too, is not really a viable training method.

 

Personally I think my suggestion where by solo is around 25% less xp is still a reasonable gap to promote teamwork but not such a gulf that doing it solo is utterly pointless in terms of xp:hr; keeps the best of both worlds.

Notice however that for comparing those things you should compare a standard team, not the pros not the bad teams.. Those teams you just form with some randoms wandering around runescape not serious about DG, yet wishing to train it and doing all their best while at it.

 

Those have around 40 minute for a large.

 

 

With a team there's a much bigger difference between the top method & the normal method than for solo play.

[Ginger_Warrior]

I think the issue we see here is the opposition of play styles.

It's all very well and good saying team dg is harder due to team skills etc etc. and sure that may justify solo being slightly lesser xp. But it certainly does not justify the massive gulf of xp difference currently existing that totally alienates anyone with a play style that prefers going it alone whether thats through personal taste or due to lag issues or w/e.

By all means dg as a team earning more is a good idea and it'd be nice to see more skills with teamwork based options. But it should not be a case where the xp rate is so vastly different that doing it alone, should you wish too, is not really a viable training method.

 

Personally I think my suggestion where by solo is around 25% less xp is still a reasonable gap to promote teamwork but not such a gulf that doing it solo is utterly pointless in terms of xp:hr; keeps the best of both worlds.

You're being slightly disingenuous to the point I was making, since I never made any reference to people's wishes to work in a team or work solo. I agree that in a true RPG, people's personal playing style shouldn't really dictate things too much, but what I actually said was that the gulf in rewards was due to the requirement of talent to complete sub-30 minute large floors in a team of five. It's simply indisputable that five individuals working as a team to beat 5:5 c6 large floors over a set period of time is a lot harder than doing 1:1 c6 medium floors over the same period; therefore the rewards (XP rates) are higher with the former. By the contrary, if "teaming" an activity makes it a lot easier to complete the activity, rather than a lot harder as is the case with dungeoneering, then the rewards per person should decrease by the same magnitude.

 

'Promoting teamwork' in a skill like firemaking is neither here nor there. What tires people of RuneScape is the grinding of mundane tasks (burning a hundred thousand logs, for example) without there being an alternative for those capable of possessing more than two brain cells. Some people see 99 RuneCrafting as an achievement, I just think they're better at staving off boredom and that the cape says nothing about that person's competencies.

 

The way that RuneScape constructs most of its skills to be irrelevant to the player's own ability is like playing a game of CoD where headshots count the same as bodyshots. Games should attempt to reward talent. RuneScape, for the most part, doesn't.

[Sy_Accursed]

I wasn't responding solely to you, but I don't see the argument to such a degree that dg rewards talent or skill any more than other skills.

Yes keeping a team organised and working efficiently does have some factoring, but at the end of that day it still comes down to clicking the right thing as the right time and doing so again and again and again and again until you get a desire level. It's not like there's huge amounts of talent involved, you just learn the lingo and the methods the same as every other skill and then with practice will find a your personal speed limitations.

 

To me it is a small factor sure, but its just kinda like the overblown idea that the combat skills are some how less of a grind than plain skills. Sure there is slightly more variations to click patterns but it still comes down to the same repetition of a basic process over and over.

 

So to me as I said before while the teamwork factor does justify some xp differentiation it does not justify the massive gulf that currently exists; especially given that there is no other way for the skill. Most, if not all, other skills have at least 2 viable training methods of decent xp rates; dg its play as a team or spend several extra months toiling away to get 1 level.

[Quyneax]

By that reasoning no skill requires skill. However people tend to find some skills much much harder to reach the highest xp rate in, ex. slayer and dungeoneering. Ask any person what skill requires most skill to get the highest xp rates in (at a given level) and dungeoneering will be one of your top answers.

[Sy_Accursed]

My reasoning was not that it takes no skill; simply that the skill required is disproportionate the xp leap it entails. Hence I don't feel such an xp gulf between team and solo is justified.

[Ginger_Warrior]

Have you ever tried keying a sub-30 minute 5:5 c6 large floor? I'm just trying to establish the basis on which you're making that assertion.

[Hedgehog]

Have you ever tried keying a sub-30 minute 5:5 c6 large floor? I'm just trying to establish the basis on which you're making that assertion.

Ya, it's very easy.

 

I could do it with my eyes closed.

[pulli23]

Have you ever tried keying a sub-30 minute 5:5 c6 large floor? I'm just trying to establish the basis on which you're making that assertion.

Ya, it's very easy.

 

I could do it with my eyes closed.

Well It's impossible for me to check wether youré actually doing this, but otherwise you would have a bet now :P.