The Back Room

[Earth]

Exactly..

[Seraphin]

RA RA RA SCANDINAVIA IS SUPERIOR TO YOUR PEASANT COUNTRY

[Alg]

RA RA RA SCANDINAVIA IS SUPERIOR TO YOUR PEASANT COUNTRY

To be fair, he's right about some of the fast food here. Probably wrong about everywhere/everything else, but right about McDonalds in the States. Their burgers are only technically made with meat, but it fills a niche: Ridiculously cheap "food" that you can get in a few minutes.

[Retech]

Except it's not really cheap either.

[Nexaduro]

It is a culinary representation of America's rampant apathy and gullibility.

[Alg]

Except it's not really cheap either.

Probably more than actually making a burger.

 

...Aaand I've crossed over to defending McDonalds. So this is what deep and unending shame feels like.

[Seraphin]

Except it's not really cheap either.

Probably more than actually making a burger.

Perhaps if you mix gold leaf into the mince.

[Alg]

I'm guessing it would help if the last time I was in one wasn't close to 7 years ago :razz:

[archimage_a]

Probably relevant.

 

I wonder if, in 100 years, someone will sing a similar song about Mather.

 

 

Anywho...

 

 

Norwegian Quality

 

 

The fact that MacDonald's uses 'local' meat (seriously, over 30 miles and you are pushing 'local' to the limit) is probably more due to the fact that the MacDonald's burger imported from the USA would cost considerably more due to protectionism on the part of the Norwegian Government. (Not neccessarily a bad thing)

However the quality of of Norwegian Beef is somewhat overplayed, it is true that they are generally raised to a quite high standard (mostly paid for by subsidy from the Government), but there is a general lack of competition in the marketplace, so the meat is far overpriced...

 

In perspective, if America introduced a Beef tax of, say:

2,526.23(Norwegian Subsidy on Beef averages at 15,000 NOK per household) / 47,000 (Average US wage)

So 5.3%

After introducing this Beef Tax they introduced 'Local Beef' from Texas and other States, while slapping a 67.5% tarrif on imported beef(The actual tarrif is in flux, between 60 and 75%).

As such the Texans are extremely happy at the fact they get huge wads of cash for producing what they have always produced, and so put very little effort in wringing every last dollar out of cows(Which is good) while making no real effort to increase their flock (Which is bad), while everyone else has to pay to be charged higher prices.

 

Out of which you get a burger which is mildly better quality...though really, for £4.31 (The price of a Bigmac in Norway), I could buy:

1.81 Kilograms of Chips (Iceland, £1)

8 Quarter Pound Burgers (Iceland, £1)

Iceburg Lettace (Iceland, 80p)

400 grams of Cheese (Iceland, £1)

18 Buns (Iceland, £1)

 

So, I could make 8 Burgers, with chips, and still have 10 buns and probably alot of chips, left over, for 50 pence more than the price of ONE Norwegian burger.

 

Supposing I went up market somewhat, and brought the more expensive burgers, at 4 for £1, still a profit of 300%...

Supposing I went upmarket on everything else:

Angus Beef Quarter Pound Burger, 4 for £1

American Style Chips, 1 kilo for £2

Sesame Seed Buns, 4 for £1

Lettace, £1.30

Extreme Vintage Chedder, 500 grams for £4

 

So £9.30 overall. I am still, STILL, paying £7.94 LESS than I would for 4 Nowegian Big Macs.

Average of £1.985 LESS per burger.

 

Though obviously cooking it would cost some money...and the 'luxury' of being able to shop while you are out and about weighs something.

Just...you know...adding some facts to what would otherwise be 'My Country is better than your Country' (Co-incidentally my country IS better than your country.)

[The_Mather1]

You know why that scale is highly misleading? Because it doesn't take wages into considderation. Norway has some of, if not the, highest wages in the world. Thus the reason why no one comes to Norway for their shopping.

Work immiggration however is high. To take one of the nations on that list of yours; Polish doctors and similarly high educates people often come here to Norway, taking jobs such as strawberry pickers (no really, this is a very common occupation for highly educated Poles) and still earn many times what they earned in Poland.

And people don't only come from poor nations, a lot of Swedes take jobs in Norway, driving a long way just to benefit from the higher wages, similarly to how a lot of us Norwegians go to Sweden to do our shopping cheaply.

[archimage_a]

You know why that scale is highly misleading? Because it doesn't take wages into considderation. Norway has some of, if not the, highest wages in the world. Thus the reason why no one comes to Norway for their shopping.

Really?

 

United Kingdom:

Disposable Income: 26,312

Gross Income: 34,854

 

Norway:

Disposable Income: 25,224

Gross Income: 37,094

 

United States:

Disposable Income:31,410

Gross Income: 42,028

 

(all in US Dollars)

 

So yeah, on average Norwegians are paid slightly more than the UK citizen, but is taxed more, so has less actual money.

Similarly they are paid less than the US citizen, and are taxed much more...

 

And in both cases, are charged more.

 

 

 

And yeah, Poland...That country that leaks people like a sieve.

Personally, I think you have been taken in by the propaganda that Norway is swimming in immigrants, the situation is nowhere near as 'amazing' as the Norwegian press make out...or your politicans for that matter.

[The_Mather1]

Sadly the percentage of the population with foreign origin is a matter that both the press and politicians are avoiding.

 

And I find those numbers of yours hard to believe unless your tycoons and celebrities really have that much to say on the avarage. A look at the common Norwegian household compared to the British or American would get anyone else to do so as well.

[archimage_a]

Norway comes 47th...Behind the Ukraine and Bangladesh.

A nation's GDP at purchasing power parity (PPP) exchange rates is the sum value of all goods and services produced in the country valued at prices prevailing in the United States in the year noted. This is the measure most economists prefer when looking at per-capita welfare and

 

when comparing living conditions

 

or use of resources across countries.

 

 

Also your 'questioning' (Going 'I don't believe it' doesn't really count as 'questioning', but anyway) of the statistics is rather baseless.

 

If we look at the share of the household income by the top 10% in both countries we find:

Norway: 21%

Britain: 28.5%

 

A difference of some 7.5%.

 

Compared to the lowest 10%:

Norway: 10%

Britain: 2.1%

 

A difference of 7.9%

 

Ergo a difference of 0.4% IN FAVOUR of the UK estimate being an underestimate.

 

So effectively it means nothing.

[The_Mather1]

You compare the TOTAL GDP(PPP)? How's that good for anything? If you want a number that says something about the public rather than the state as a whole, shouldn't you look at GDP(PPP) per capita?

You know where we have the 8th highest in the world.

 

Or you could look at the average annual gross salary:

Norway: $82,908.

UK: $66,552.

USA: $47,390.

[archimage_a]

You could also look at the I am automatically right index too:

 

United Kingdom: $1,000,000

Norway: $1

 

Or you could look at sources...

[The_Mather1]

You mean post sources?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Norway

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_UK

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_US

[archimage_a]

Wasn't hard was it...try getting it in one post though....Anywho, will read through.

[The_Mather1]

You don't have to, the numbers are listed to the right.

[archimage_a]

Well it is source checking...Since Wikipedia isn't exactly the most trustable resource (Better than no resource, but anyway).

[Resistance]

Sadly the percentage of the population with foreign origin is a matter that both the press and politicians are avoiding.

I love how Brievik completely got the opposite result to what he wanted to happen! Any sort of discussion about immigration in a negative light is now taboo.

[Ieyfura]

I must say. I surprisingly learn a lot about the world whenever there is a debate in the Tavern. You guys really know your stuff. O_o

[The_Mather1]

Actually it was like that way before he did anything, there has been discussion about the immigration policy, but nothing about how many refuse integration.

 

Anyways, the annual average salary in Norway was actually $88,000 in 2011.

Thank you Statistisk Sentralbyrå. http://www.ssb.no/lonnansatt_en/

[Resistance]

Actually it was like that way before he did anything, there has been discussion about the immigration policy, but nothing about how many refuse integration.

 

He is right though, intergration doesn't work as well as people like. Different cultures and religions only serve as a barrier and often I think I would agree to multiculturalism shouldn't be encouraged. In his memoirs he describes how he was shocked at how his Islamic friend was taken from the country to a forced arranged-marriage, this to him (and to me) is quite shocking and proves the issues surrounding intergration. Obviously murdering a load of children probably isn't the best way you get your opinions voiced, though.

[Earth]

Well Mather, that was surprisinly helpful. You're arguments now have more weight than if you had just pulled statisics or statements seemingly out of the air.

[archimage_a]

The statistics are based on information from a sample of enterprises with a total of 1 605 354 employees in the third quarter of 2011. The sample covers all industries except for agriculture, hunting and forestry.

 

Sounds like a good average...Only a third of your country not included...oh, and the poorest third...but you know...88,000 Dollars sounds better than 44,000 Dollars.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_average_wage

 

Also not including tax...But you know...You can trust Statistics Norway.

 

Obviously murdering a load of children probably isn't the best way you get your opinions voiced, though.

I disagree.