SoF Feedback Response

[Powerfrog]

I'm not skeptical that 90% of us have used the SoF, I'm skeptical that 90% "appreciate" it and that it is "the most widely appreciated content release to date."

 

That's nothing but spin and manure shoveling.

I'd be surprised if 10% of people that logged in didn't just spin to get fast xp/get rid of the annoying persistent interface. What i was suspicious of was that 90% of players even log in every day and play runescape, SoF be damned. Completely fabricated statistic, either way.

 

If someone offered you a free video game on the street, or 100s of video games for a price, are you really supporting his right to sell those games by taking the free one?

[Quyneax]

I'm not sure if the statistic includes inactive players. Maybe they just measured the weeks since the release of SoF, so accounts that went inactive before then are simply not counted.

[Mr_G_W]

Still hatin those buyable spins...

[Zerker_Jane]

Jagex wants to make money, they don't give a [bleep] what the players want. Why should they?

[SwreeTak]

Jagex wants to make money, they don't give a [bleep] what the players want. Why should they?

 

Because if enough players don't like what they do anymore, they won't make any more money. I think that all these protests against the SoF shows quite clear what a big part of, if not the majority so at least close to, thinks about all this RWT.

[aerendil]

had no expectations jagex would even mention that people didnt like the steal of fortune, or that they knew what the rants forum was, so was pleasantly surprised they even addressed it at all.

 

mind i was expecting the bullshit; no expectations, no disappointments!

[Tip It]

I personally don't know what the new owners plan on doing in this game, but it's incredibly clear that they intend on squeezing as much money as quickly as possible out of this. For the most part, when any sort of business is taken over and run this way, it's usually run into the ground.

Sure, the minority of dedicated players will remain, but many will leave.

 

I see this as, maybe, the beginning of the end for rs.

[Bxpprod]

I personally don't know what the new owners plan on doing in this game, but it's incredibly clear that they intend on squeezing as much money as quickly as possible out of this. For the most part, when any sort of business is taken over and run this way, it's usually run into the ground.

Sure, the minority of dedicated players will remain, but many will leave.

 

I see this as, maybe, the beginning of the end for rs.

 

A) That's what venture capitalists do. High risk, high reward investment aimed at, oh, making money.

B) The second RS was turned on, is, and forever will be, the only "beginning of the end"

[Alg]

B) The second RS was turned on, is, and forever will be, the only "beginning of the end"

And today's young, happy players will be tomorrow's bitter "veterans". The game's not dying, it's just shifting away from us, and we seem hell-bent on taking the community with us when we leave. I'm actually a bit curious about whether or not our unrealistically cynical discussions and uncontrolled elitism isn't turning new blood away from the site, when we're not actively chasing them away.

 

I hate to be 'that guy' that defends Jagex (inb4 "traitor!"), but I'm just starting to think the community deserves what it's been getting. We're very similar to all of those guys that pirate games and wonder why the new ones have crippling DRM, down to the assertion that we're not to blame for any of it. We even use many of the same arguments. :wall:

[Frozen]

And today's young, happy players will be tomorrow's bitter "veterans". The game's not dying, it's just shifting away from us, and we seem hell-bent on taking the community with us when we leave. I'm actually a bit curious about whether or not our unrealistically cynical discussions and uncontrolled elitism isn't turning new blood away from the site, when we're not actively chasing them away.

 

I hate to be 'that guy' that defends Jagex (inb4 "traitor!"), but I'm just starting to think the community deserves what it's been getting.

 

Exactly what I've been thinking lately. Jagex has made mistakes without a doubt but in many instances we're far too overzealous. Everyone needs to relax a little and just enjoy the game for what it is. Not a thing wrong with critique and voicing valid concerns and feelings but the attitude I've been seeing in the community is just terrible. That includes myself of course - I've lost my temper recently but I've started to think better of some things. I wouldn't be surprised if the people working in Cambridge have started to tire of it and truly are caring less and less about what we think because we surely haven't spared them all of the first nasty thoughts that come to our minds. Everything's become so much more dramatic even than when I left in 2008. It is always six of one and half a dozen of another but I really think that if we as the community want to see a change then we need to adopt a slightly more pragmatic view of our own behavior and our relationship with the developers. It's not really about defending Jagex, it's about not going with the first wild ideas and responses that pop up in our brains.

[TheRealSycz2k]

ooh well they must needed extra money :D

[Sir_Squab]

B) The second RS was turned on, is, and forever will be, the only "beginning of the end"

And today's young, happy players will be tomorrow's bitter "veterans". The game's not dying, it's just shifting away from us, and we seem hell-bent on taking the community with us when we leave. I'm actually a bit curious about whether or not our unrealistically cynical discussions and uncontrolled elitism isn't turning new blood away from the site, when we're not actively chasing them away.

 

I hate to be 'that guy' that defends Jagex (inb4 "traitor!"), but I'm just starting to think the community deserves what it's been getting. We're very similar to all of those guys that pirate games and wonder why the new ones have crippling DRM, down to the assertion that we're not to blame for any of it. We even use many of the same arguments. :wall:

 

Life is complicated. I'd argue that it simply reveals that despite how addicting they can be, people don't really like grinding in games. Who actually enjoys the process of grinding most skills or grinding for gold? Virtually no one. So people look for an easier way. Ultimately there is.

 

Imho, the heart of the issue is that grindy games are a flawed system - players want to look for a way to get around the grinding but are told it's against the rules.

 

What would have happened if Jagex response to the SoF was that they were abandoning their "pay to get ahead is wrong" policy in favor of "players don't like grinding and will pay to get around it so we may as well make money off it instead of bot sellers"? How would the community of responded then?

 

At least half the issue here is how ignorant and stupid and dishonest Jagex is being in response to this. 90% of members do NOT enjoy the SoF. It isn't a fun piece of content, its a rewarding piece of content and it's pseudo-gambling. At least I can understand why they deny that it's gambling - they can't say "it's not technically gambling so it's legal" while admitting that it's pretty much gambling.

 

However, it is essentially RWT for exp.

 

[spoiler=An aside]As an aside, in regards to pirating and such, I could bring up things like kickstarter, how the traditional model for, well, media is changing from big corporations ruling it, to more say indie games, different methods of distributing media...a good way is to offer people some music (or product) and then say, hey, if you want more I need money. People would pay if they like the product. Also remember that one of the reasons people justify pirating is that people at the head of corporations are so obscenely rich that people pirating from them won't "hurt" their income. If they make several million a year, and suddenly make 15% less due to pirating, they're still making several million a year. Works different for small indie game developers or small indie bands or even writers and stuff.

 

Also, with the help of google come up with a number of games that you can tell just by the title and cover that they were made to try and cash in on the success of something as opposed to try make an actual good game.

 

This aside was longer then I intended. Not that coherent, but it was meant to be a brief aside. Basically, life is complicated. And ultimately, changing mass human behavior is kinda difficult. The internet is still semi-new. It's certainly older then a lot of business models... The internet is new enough that there's no one tried and true business model for it. Traditional business models fail with it tho.

 

This could easily make it's own topic. And this is a response to one sentence >_<

 

 

[gingerdaniel]

Naturally the team and I are saddened that some players are upset about free spins and some also dont like the ability to also purchase additional spins, however, the reality is 90% of our members are enjoying the Squeal of Fortune on a daily basis and over 70% of our free players utilise the Squeal of Fortune daily too - making it some of the most widely appreciated content release to date. The majority of our players also continue to take advantage of the many free ways to earn extra spins, so its certainly here to stay.

 

Are you serious?! if you put people in a smokey room there still gonna breath that smoke, widely appreciated content runescape are turning into a bunch of money hungry losers.

 

Since my son has purchased some SoF using credit from his phone I wonder if I should bring a lawsuit against Runescape for allowing underage gambling.

[Bxpprod]

Are you serious?! if you put people in a smokey room there still gonna breath that smoke, widely appreciated content runescape are turning into a bunch of money hungry losers.

 

You are comparing...breathing...to clicking a button...on runescape?

Really?

[Crocefisso]

B) The second RS was turned on, is, and forever will be, the only "beginning of the end"

I absolutely agree. I wrote an article on this here and was completely dismissed. Good to see someone else shares my view.

 

I think what people mean to say when they say that 'x will cause the end' is that x will hasten the end.

[Guest jrhairychest]

B) The second RS was turned on, is, and forever will be, the only "beginning of the end"

And today's young, happy players will be tomorrow's bitter "veterans". The game's not dying, it's just shifting away from us, and we seem hell-bent on taking the community with us when we leave. I'm actually a bit curious about whether or not our unrealistically cynical discussions and uncontrolled elitism isn't turning new blood away from the site, when we're not actively chasing them away.

 

I hate to be 'that guy' that defends Jagex (inb4 "traitor!"), but I'm just starting to think the community deserves what it's been getting. We're very similar to all of those guys that pirate games and wonder why the new ones have crippling DRM, down to the assertion that we're not to blame for any of it. We even use many of the same arguments. :wall:

 

 

Some pretty intelligent points there. In particular I think you're spot on about the community reaping what it sows. I can't help but feel that all those who whinged RS was a grindfest got slapped in the face with 'buyable' XP.

[Ts_Stormrage]

Don't you think that the popularity (thats what Jagex calls it) of the SoF is in part because there are still aspects of some skills that are too grindy, too expensive, too slow, or otherwise bad?

Granted; killing off bots and goldfarmers (and their pimps) was a perfect opportunity for Jagex to capitalise on it with buyable spins, but if all the skills out there were actually enjoyable to do, you wouldn't need effigies, lamps, peng points, etc...

 

What Jagex calls the popularity of the SoF, I call the lack of popularity of training the skills. Cuz we all know that the lamps is the one thing that makes people spin, as the rest is of the wheel is either useless or terribly rare (unless you happen to be F2P, then you get the good stuff all the time)...

 

PS: Is it me, or did I pay membership to get away from ads and popups? If so, why am I still getting "requests" to buy more spins in-game by having that annoying goblin on my screen every time I log in? Is Jagex misinforming me about a product?

[Krazyck]

Ahem!

 

I would just like to take this opportunity to invite you all to the world of pure F2P players! Considering that most game content updates do not affect F2P, why not take this time to express your outrage! Your indignation! Disgust! At Jagex and play in a world where (almost) nothing changes! Skills aren't hardcore buyable, and for the most part, it is a level playing field (except for bots, but they aren't people anyways so we don't need to give a crap about them!) Yes, it's boring coming from a members point of view, but that's just the addiction talking! You'll be better in no time! Everything just looks better with time, and you don't have worry about any crazy updates affecting you, you don't exist because you have no money! In the end, F2p and P2P are the same! At the end of the day its just clicking, pixels, and numbers! So yes, come one, come all! Join F2P! It's the Runescape you knew, the one you started with, the one you grew up with!

 

Really guys, come on! We need more F2P!

 

...

 

Anybody?

 

lol.

 

Well hopefully ONE person makes the switch because of my heartfelt words! As for the SoF, I would echo the general sentiment about it being terrible and greasy and money grabby, but really someone else said it a bit earlier in this thread and it is what prompted me to post; the intelligent ones, the informed consumer, the people who can all see past the ridiculous crap and the horribly, OBVIOUSLY broken logic for explaining things as Jagex does these days, **we are not the target audience anymore**. Jagex needs/wants to bring in new blood, and these stupid juvenile tactics are suited, well, most probably for the kids who I'm guessing they are focusing their efforts at capturing. Wording like that used in the ridiculous feed back letter probably seems perfectly fine and justified and great to kids/people new to the game, and those who are OUTRAGE!@!!!!!!! are still here (for the most part), so whatever gets the job done right? Once you are a long time player, they don't really need to do much more to convince you to stay. Getting new players would probably yield much more profitability than doing the things that just keep everyone happy. A lot of the recent events do alienate and enrage many people, but most of those same angry outraged people are still playing. Probably over 99% of them, if i had to guess.

 

I cant say i didn't see it coming, these money grabbing tactics are essentially part of the reason I stayed f2p for 10 years or whatever it has been, because that's how I viewed membership when it came out. Pay money for a unfair advantage, getting MUCH faster exp (omfg can you believe dragon longsword? broken omg), so I stayed out. Anyways this entire SoF process has been TERRIBLE and lame and everything, but at the end of the day, money is number one! Every time I hear about things like this happening to Runescape I am always reminded about how I read somewhere that a venture capital investment group has taken the majority ownership share in rs, and I remember reading on wikipedia that they specialized in essentially running games into the ground, grabbing all the stacks of cash they can on the way down. It might not be true, but it doesn't seem to be too far off the mark.

 

Sorry for the wall of text!

 

One benefit of living in the gutter is that when you get some crap thrown on you, you don't really care, you're already filthy!

 

(Join F2P! :^_^: )

[Guest jrhairychest]

Don't you think that the popularity (thats what Jagex calls it) of the SoF is in part because there are still aspects of some skills that are too grindy, too expensive, too slow, or otherwise bad?

Granted; killing off bots and goldfarmers (and their pimps) was a perfect opportunity for Jagex to capitalise on it with buyable spins, but if all the skills out there were actually enjoyable to do, you wouldn't need effigies, lamps, peng points, etc...

 

What Jagex calls the popularity of the SoF, I call the lack of popularity of training the skills. Cuz we all know that the lamps is the one thing that makes people spin, as the rest is of the wheel is either useless or terribly rare (unless you happen to be F2P, then you get the good stuff all the time)...

 

PS: Is it me, or did I pay membership to get away from ads and popups? If so, why am I still getting "requests" to buy more spins in-game by having that annoying goblin on my screen every time I log in? Is Jagex misinforming me about a product?

Jagex only ever presented us with ways of training and other alternative methods to do it. Nobody ever forced anyone to train a particular way or even at all. The problems you list aren't the dynamics of the game but the attitude of the players that use them. We had more alternative methods of training that we ever had before, yet still players complained. The community provided Jagex with the opportunity to bring this in instead of understanding that they needed to think about their gameplay more or that RS just wasn't for them.

 

Considering that the high scores are pretty much defunct these days it shouldn't really matter one iota whether someone now buys their xp in or not. If a player 'knows' that they've trained

their own skills rather than bought them then that should be good enough.

[Poptart King]

I like using my quest spins + daily spins just another daily thing i can use to get free stuff im never going to spend money on it but its still good content in my opinion and I love runescape so why should it matter if they use money making ploys to get money I enjoy the game for what it is and I dont have to use all the content.