Power Creep

[Sinkhan]

Extra Credit - Power Creep

 

We've seen it happen in RS quite a bit. Rune gave way to dragon which gave way to bandos/barrows and then Nex gear. We got curses which are a massive boost over regular prayers as was the case with exts/ovls over supers. It's gotten to the point where a lot of monsters that were once regarded as high level and difficult to beat (like most of GWD, KBD, and Jad) have become way easier with these new additions.

 

I'm interested to see how Jagex rebalances everything with the combat rework and can perhaps effectively "reset" the power level to a normalized point.

[Donnie]

I doubt they intend to, infact from the little ive paid attention to their plans it seems like they want to further add in bigger bosses and better weapons and armor

[Kimberly]

Their answer to that so far has been to make the items produced requirements to use that content, which goes a a bit of a way towards limiting its effects. However, so long as things like buying gold, flipping, staking, bonus exp weekends, carried over stats from the old system, RaF bonuses, and so on exist, it still won't be a suitable offset.

 

Nothing will stop what "creep" we've already got in the game. They can only tweak it so much before they break it entirely. They can't mash skills together or remove them, because that kind of ties into the issue of scaled content where all your previous hours and work are now rendered useless. So you're stuck with a skeleton system where you have very little room to change what you're trying to be more profitable and more pleasing. There's just no way to save it. They've dug a ten year hole and they're playing 7 years of "catch up" on old content left virtually untouched for years because of it.

 

Literally everything about the drastic changes released in the beta highlight these flaws and instead of correcting a lot of things (although it does achieve that) they instead make these underlying issues with their previous content all the more apparent. And god forbid we start getting skill requirements to use items for skills you primarily train via MINIGAMES instead of the actual skill itself, like the Runespan.

[Quyneax]

Power creep (to a point) is functional and a natural consequence of the fact that most of the RS skills weren't totally finished on release. Most still aren't, as weapons and armour have no 90+ requirements yet, for example. So there's quite a bit more to come.

 

Harmful power creep would only come when there would be increasing tiers of level 99 gear, imo. Until the skills are filled out, new, more powerful weapons and bosses are expected and required.

 

That said, a lot of older content could do with either a high-end version or an overhaul.

 

Personally I'd like to see a variant of the KBD, Dagannoth Kings, GWD bosses etc. with prayers. The KBD praying smite and maybe the 15% prayers, Dagannoth Kings each praying the piety equivalent for their attack style, GWD bosses using protect prayers (minions using smite), tormented demons using curses and soul split flashing, the corporeal beast using a full leech with soul split... there's all sorts of opportunities for high-level content simply adding a tiny mechanic to existing bosses.

[Omnitec]

I think when Jagex introduced the completionist cape into the game, Runescape went from a game with seemingly endless possibilities to have a potential "finish". Whether 200m experience in every skill supersedes that is another argument, however I think if you maxed out now and got the cape compared to say 4 years ago you'd feel there is less to accomplish seeing as you've "completed" the game. To keep these loyal players interested with more things to do I think is where Jagex ends up "power creeping" some game content. Once many people have got the cape, what is there more to do for them? Other than introducing something like the QBD for them to kill.

 

I think Jagex has -more recently- avoided this issue though; the QBD though potentially the most difficult foe in the game doesn't actually give much high end gear. Nex however does give incredibly powered gear, but then again is more challenging as a boss to actually obtain the drops themselves. For high leveled/experienced players, when more gear is introduced which is better than their current, and they can immediately access that; sure it's power creeping from our point of view. But then again, the gaps between levels are being filled in for Jagexs' future customers, so they can easily jump from weapon to weapon as they progress up to the ultimate gear, so whether it's debilitating for Jagex's income, i'm not so sure

[Troacctid]

We've seen it happen in RS quite a bit. Rune gave way to dragon which gave way to bandos/barrows and then Nex gear. We got curses which are a massive boost over regular prayers as was the case with exts/ovls over supers.

That's not so much what I'd call power creep as all of those also came with increased level requirements, and the old gear is still (mostly) the best for its respective level range.

 

RuneScape hasn't had power creep so much as "expected level" creep (or whatever you want to call it) as new content has gradually been aimed at higher and higher levels over time. There's been some power creep, like Bandos and Armadyl superseding Barrows and d'hide, but more often Jagex has had the problem of trying to "fill in" the top of the level range, which is a related issue but one requiring very different solutions.

[Thus]

Have you played the beta at all? We have never been more powerless.

[Sir_Squab]

Honestly, I think that even adding higher tier gear is power creep in a sense. One thing that video in the link talks about is leaving a game when you have awesome gear, stats, etc, and coming back and finding out that you're gear isn't the standard anymore. Or the top end. That could happen in RS. Although RS progresses more slowly - the whip was the best weapon in the game until dungeoneering came out. That was like 5 years lol.

[Kimberly]

Honestly, I think that even adding higher tier gear is power creep in a sense. One thing that video in the link talks about is leaving a game when you have awesome gear, stats, etc, and coming back and finding out that you're gear isn't the standard anymore. Or the top end. That could happen in RS. Although RS progresses more slowly - the whip was the best weapon in the game until dungeoneering came out. That was like 5 years lol.

 

The first thing that actually comes to mind in regards to power creep and useless content - royal dragonhide.They're comparable to armadyl, beats Karils, and outclass black d'hide. Was it necessary? No. We already had things in the progression and it certainly wasn't no 95-requirement type item. It was adding equipment for the sake of making the "super strong QBD tough fight" worth it. Did we need a crossbow with a bleed effect? No, it was already matched by the Chaotic Crossbow and came close to the Karils X-bow and we had bolts that did the same thing. These items were added just to add them, placing junk in the requirement tier that wasn't even necessary and messing up the balance of armor that was supposed to be superior to it.

[stonewall337]

Why should they change it TBH? Old content almost always loses value with time. Look at raids in wow, KBD in RS, lower tiered runes in LOL, etc. As you level, and as content gets older, you get better stuff, and old content becomes obsolete.

 

The problem with RS is it doesn't handle old content well. New gear comes out too infrequently and new bosses do too, and once you max combat you can't level up any more, except through gear, and the small additional of personalskill I mean prayer or gear swapping.

 

RS needs a tier system, or heck even additions to older gear to bring it more up to date. Be able to combine a DFS with a divine, for the anti dragon + str benefit but then make the item BOUND, never able to be sold again, or something along those lines.

[decebal]

Why should they change it TBH? Old content almost always loses value with time. Look at raids in wow, KBD in RS, lower tiered runes in LOL, etc. As you level, and as content gets older, you get better stuff, and old content becomes obsolete.

 

The problem with RS is it doesn't handle old content well. New gear comes out too infrequently and new bosses do too, and once you max combat you can't level up any more, except through gear, and the small additional of personalskill I mean prayer or gear swapping.

 

RS needs a tier system, or heck even additions to older gear to bring it more up to date. Be able to combine a DFS with a divine, for the anti dragon + str benefit but then make the item BOUND, never able to be sold again, or something along those lines.

From what I've seen, RS does have a "tier" system that just naturally formed, with the ability to skip many of the tiers. From what I've seen, armour can be split into the following tiers:

• "F2P" (rune)
  
• P2P welfare (dragon, granite, black d'hide etc),
  
• Barrows and alternatives (comparable to where T13 LFR is at currently in WoW)
  
• Arguably Arma and Bandos (comparable to T13 normal)
  
• Nex armour (comparable to T13H)
  

As for bosses, I see it currently, with some outliers, as the following:

• Pre-GWD (KBD, CE, KQ, Mole in terms of loot)
  
• GWD w/o Nex
  
• Post GWD high-end monsters (Corp, Nex).
  

 

Note though that this is a very rough classification, with a few outliers (e.g. I have no clue where to classify the QBD), which is why the different tiers are melded together. Also, I am not the best person to classify content, as I've never been a member (although I've followed what's been happening in members since I've first stumbled onto Tip.it five years ago). I've only made these classifications to show how "tiers" are already existant.

 

As for a personal conclusion: power creep currently is not affecting the game that badly (except for the fact that our health can't handle the damage as it remained a constant over the years). If you look at the increases in combat the last five years, the increase in damage is nearly linear, unlike other games where damage (and health) increases exponentially. I'm morw worried on what Jagex will do once they reach level 99 equipment.

[stonewall337]

Except that damage goes up, but HP stay roughly the same. It should scale better.

[decebal]

Except that damage goes up, but HP stay roughly the same. It should scale better.

Agreed here, and noted in the last paragraph already. Jagex has already tried fixing this by using lp-boosting gear, and it seems that they want everything to boost lp, looking at the beta.

[Unknown_Warrior]

 

As for bosses, I see it currently, with some outliers, as the following:

• Pre-GWD (KBD, CE, KQ, Mole in terms of loot)
  
• GWD w/o Nex
  
• Post GWD high-end monsters (Corp, Nex).
  

 

Note though that this is a very rough classification, with a few outliers (e.g. I have no clue where to classify the QBD), which is why the different tiers are melded together. Also, I am not the best person to classify content, as I've never been a member (although I've followed what's been happening in members since I've first stumbled onto Tip.it five years ago). I've only made these classifications to show how "tiers" are already existant.

 

I would probably go for more like this:

 

• Giant Mole
  
• KBD
  
• DKS
  
• TDs
  
• CE
  
• GWD bosses (but Nex)
  
• KQ
  
• QBD
  
• Corporeal Beast
  
• Nex
  

 

Many people seem to assume some older bosses are easy solely based on the fact that they're older, without actually facing them. Kalphite Queen especially is harder than most bosses I've faced. Spamming consistent 200s+ that can't be tanked spread over two formes.

[Quyneax]

There's also the issue of how hard it is to do well at a certain boss. Killing a tormented demon or dagannoth king isn't very hard in itself, unlike killing Nex, but maintaining an efficient killrate is much harder than it is on the KQ/GWD bosses, which are essentially brewfests with a long wait in between. Definitely rank the KQ over GWD though.

[Platinum_Myr]

I agree. I hope that it changes towards more difficult to kill bosses, and requiring more efficient thought about how to stay alive longer, and away from a brew/rocktail eating frenzy. I think its a half step in the right direction (what we have now) but with 2 steps back.

[Will H]

I think Jagex saved itself quite a bit in this respect by not having early level caps (a la World of Warcraft). Power creep is only really visible if we talk about extreme examples of old content, such as Dragon armour and the KBD, which as far as MMO's go, is really pretty good.

 

That said, there is definitely some obsolete content out there, and this is something that needs to be talked about sooner than later.

 

(P.S. Extra Credits is great, I highly recommend watching the rest of their videos.)

[Guest jrhairychest]

Have you played the beta at all? We have never been more powerless.

 

Interesting comment. I'm only making an assumption here as I haven't tried the beta, so I take it the stats have been altered considerably for armour etc.?

[Zerker_Jane]

Have you played the beta at all? We have never been more powerless.

 

Interesting comment. I'm only making an assumption here as I haven't tried the beta, so I take it the stats have been altered considerably for armour etc.?

 

Yeah armour is worthless when it comes to improving damage.