What updates would you like to see in EoC?

[Alg]

Subject to weapons equipped, sure it could probably be improved further but at least that way it'd give a more accurate idea of their overall combat prowess for what they are doing.

 

In all seriousness, I'm 192 combat, but that really doesn't reflect my combat potential: I have 99 attack, 92 magic, 91 defense, and everything else is in the mid-80s. In terms of equipment, I'm probably around 150 at most (80 weapon, 70 armor).

[thejollyroger]

My pet peeves are mostly with sloppy post-EoC fixes and changes.

 

1. (and foremost for me) Fix Livid Farm, specifically with Pauline and the Suqah distraction. Although Energy Transfer was removed from the Lunar spellbook, it still technically exists, and also requires the corresponding runes, for this instance. It worked wonderfully with the old Special Attack code, since the SA bar was full by default. Modified to use the Adrenaline bar, it fails miserably. It makes no sense to me to be grinding something non-combat by design, to suddenly run out of the Farm and do some combat to fill the bar to 50%. just to recover some runes.

 

It's probably very, very low on Jagex's priority list, because it's been broken for quite some time.

 

2. Poison is a joke. I appreciate that the current implementation created a demand for weapon poison potions (and that it counts broadly to all attack types), but... they just aren't practical that I can see. It's almost as if they negated need for antipoisons, because I used to need them for the Jade Vine, cave slimes, etc. but now, I can usually tank it out.

 

Since Jagex has no problem borrowing ideas from other games, I'd prefer to see poison return to weapons, but with limited use. In other words, weapons hold only so much poison, then it must be reapplied. This should reinstate Karambwan paste nicely. I'm not sure how it would be cleanly implemented, but I'd figure ranged ammo should be one use per projectile.

 

I'm disappointed disease (Zogres at Jiggjg) was dropped entirely, but... I won't go into that here.

 

3. Bring back use of catalytic runes. I wish Jagex would have thought things through before largely eliminating the need for catalytic runes on the Modern and Ancient spellbooks. Lunar remains unchanged... how is that fair? It seems like an awkward bot-preventing measure by Jagex, more rather when you consider that Daily Challenges and the Rune Mysteries/Rune Memories quest seem to be saturating the market with essence as if to make them almost free.

 

The reworking of Ancient Magicks to being elementally based seems... weird. See #2. I'd suggest at least that Smoke Spells return alongside the reworked "Gale" versions with full catalytic rune requirements. I don't know how Jagex would "keep" an option to let mages poison with Modern spells, but again, drinking potions is ... dumb, IMO.

 

4. Divine Storm. All I want, really, is some sort of quest/storyarc explanation-- y'know, a PROPER retcon! Claws of Guthix was an old favorite spell of mine, but, a proper retcon is all I want.

 

5. I agree the combat formula is busted, and I suspect that it has a broader impact on Herblore than just Overloads. I've read the previous comments, lots I would respond to, but I've rambled enough.

[Sy_Accursed]

^ To point 3 I'd say WHY?

 

The whole point of spell cost changes was to lower costs to get magic on par with others and to begin moving away from consumable ammo.

There is no reasons or need to bring them back and lunar remained largely unchanged because it was the evolution of COMBAT - the non-combat spells on normal and ancient didn't get changed either cost wise.

[Platinum_Myr]

As for (1), yes it should be fixed, but I didn't think anyone did those diversions anyways.... They only give you back a few runes.

[Miss Lioness]

I would like to see a new type of GWD-esque for Tier 90 Armours!

[Sy_Accursed]

I would like to see a new type of GWD-esque for Tier 90 Armours!

 

It'd be great for like a week - then Jagex would patch their precious Nex armours more so the usefulness of t90 would be questionable/borderline.

[Estoc]

I would like them to make some effort to release armor and weapons at the same time. Drygores are cool but we need armor to counter it. Been playing soulwars a lot lately and if you don't have either drygores or hybrid armor+barrage you are pretty much worthless.

[Quyneax]

I'd say the tiering system is so random that armours can't really be considered 'tiered'. For example comparing Ahrim's to Ganodermic, you can hardly say it's an increase in difficulty to obtain the item. The increases from Dragon/royal d'hide to Barrows to GWD to Nex/Ports are part of how viable an armour is, but Jagex doesn't seem to take it into account.

 

Based on the idea of skill armour vs. combat/boss armour, I'd say a tiering system would be:

- Alternate tiers of skilling and boss armour, make t99 require both, minigames/specials in between.

- Have at least one special at each tier. Ranging from Dragith Nurn to void to EE, there's a lot of options here. These should be actually worth getting (so not like imbueds or dt gloves >.>).

- Lower tier armour is also shop-bought, apart from specials.

 

Melee-only example:

Level 1 Bronze (skill).

Level 5 Cower shield, raider chainbody (goblin flash mob), Mask of Dragith Nurn etc. (boss).

Level 10 iron (skill).

Level 15 ...

Level 20 steel (skill).

Level 25 black/white (sort of boss, lots of monster drops, white armour shop depends on monster kills as well).

Level 30 mithril (skill).

Level 35 ...

Level 40 adamant (skill).

Level 45 Fremmenik items (berserker helm etc.)

Level 50 rune (skill).

Level 55 Spirit shield, Neitiznot helmet

Level 60 dragon (boss)

Level 65 third-age (special, mostly boss though)

Level 70 Bandos (boss) Barrows (boss)

Level 75 Sigil shields (magic has ganodermic here, which requires monster drops but also skills)

Level 80 Torva (boss)

Level 85 Tetsu (skill)

Level 90 ... (something boss-dropped)

Level 95 ... (something skill-based)

Level 99 ... (both)

 

If you want to be strict in your progression, you'd have to make dragon smithable and add a lot of monster drop tiers, and some craftable tiers, and move a lot of armour around (all metals past bronze could come down 5 levels for example). More realistically, you treat dragon as special (so 55 and 60 are both boss drops) and add a t65 and t75 skill tier. That fits the current progression much better.

[NukeMarine]

Herblore: Create lower tier non-tradeable combo potions since it'd be nice to have something like Att+Str+Def or Rng+Def or Super Magic+Super Defense combo potions. Create more skill improvement potions (although herblore habitat kind of does this).

 

Prayer: Create skill based prayers bringing it into line with herblore and summoning.

 

Skills: Create abilities for skills and adapt resource gathering like they did combat. I've said it before, but mining, fishing and woodcutting are sort of like slayer only you're target is high defense with 1 hit-point and a guarenteed drop. I could see Jagex changing it so that resources now have "hit points" that you can drain while abilities let you gather faster.

[ohhh]

Mounts

[Saradomin_Mage]

Prayer: Create skill based prayers bringing it into line with herblore and summoning.

I'm interested. Do you mean stuff like saying a few chants while mixing potions to give a chance of extra XP/an extra dose (increased benefit), or something like a mantra while cooking to reduce your chance of burning food (reduced penalty)?

[muggiwhplar]

Prayer: Create skill based prayers bringing it into line with herblore and summoning.

I'm interested. Do you mean stuff like saying a few chants while mixing potions to give a chance of extra XP/an extra dose (increased benefit), or something like a mantra while cooking to reduce your chance of burning food (reduced penalty)?

 

I always imagined it'd be like 5/10/15% boosts to non-artisan skills that deplete prayer the same way the combat prayers work. Kind of like the skilling auras except with prayer.

[thejollyroger]

^ To point 3 I'd say WHY?

 

The whole point of spell cost changes was to lower costs to get magic on par with others and to begin moving away from consumable ammo.

There is no reasons or need to bring them back and lunar remained largely unchanged because it was the evolution of COMBAT - the non-combat spells on normal and ancient didn't get changed either cost wise.

 

I'm primarily a skiller, dude. I'm also in a hell of a lot of pain IRL. Don't piss me off.

 

Think about it... if they brought back Energy Transfer, or changed Adrenaline pots, or introduced a weaker versions of Adrenaline (and made untradeable Adrenaline "Extreme Adrenaline"), there might be less complaints about the Adrenaline bar, and maybe reworked Lunar in certain ways, people would start taking Lunar mages as defensive support a little more seriously than the "I just want Vengeance to be a spe-shul PKer" crap we've had in the past.

 

Or even a few instanced versions of the Modern/Lunar hybrid spellbook from Daemonheim... I haven't really looked to see if it factors into sinkholes... I'm already antisocial enough that the idea of playing with others, period, didn't lead me to look more closely at it. My gut and usually uncanny memory says it had little to no relevance.

[Sy_Accursed]

^ To point 3 I'd say WHY?

 

The whole point of spell cost changes was to lower costs to get magic on par with others and to begin moving away from consumable ammo.

There is no reasons or need to bring them back and lunar remained largely unchanged because it was the evolution of COMBAT - the non-combat spells on normal and ancient didn't get changed either cost wise.

 

I'm primarily a skiller, dude. I'm also in a hell of a lot of pain IRL. Don't piss me off.

 

Think about it... if they brought back Energy Transfer, or changed Adrenaline pots, or introduced a weaker versions of Adrenaline (and made untradeable Adrenaline "Extreme Adrenaline"), there might be less complaints about the Adrenaline bar, and maybe reworked Lunar in certain ways, people would start taking Lunar mages as defensive support a little more seriously than the "I just want Vengeance to be a spe-shul PKer" crap we've had in the past.

 

Or even a few instanced versions of the Modern/Lunar hybrid spellbook from Daemonheim... I haven't really looked to see if it factors into sinkholes... I'm already antisocial enough that the idea of playing with others, period, didn't lead me to look more closely at it. My gut and usually uncanny memory says it had little to no relevance.

 

I agree with all your points there, but I fail to see how it remotely replies to my case. I was just disagreeing with re-raising spell costs because cheaper is better and pointing out that none of the skill spells get altered because it was a combat update. Skill spells probably could do with a rehash in line with the combat spell changes and, as always, it would be good to see Lunar become more fully fledged in combat support capabilities but that requires a lot of new spells and some well designed bosses that actually NEED a support unit present.

[Hajutze]

...

There is no need for something like this ... just make the bosses/monsters drop materials (NOT RAW MATERIALS LIKE ORE AND BARS) and make the armors crafted only - a bar + the drop from the monster + a person with the appropriate smithing level = new armor. This way both the gathering community (miners in this case), the PvE community (the people who kill the monster for the part), the artisan community (those who make the armors) and the PvP community (those who will use the armors) will be happy

[Quyneax]

Skill armour is not the same as armour that can be made with skills, sorry about the confusion there, of course things like bronze-runite are all tradeable, but those are relatively low-tier armours also available in shops. Things like ganodermic require skills to repair it continuously but not to access it. True skill armour is stuff like superior tetsu, which absolutely requires 90 smithing to access (and another 90 skill).

 

So basically, you have:

Untradeable boss drops (uh, Mask of Dragith Nurn)

Untradeable skill armour (ports)

Tradeable boss drops (Nex etc.)

Tradeable skill armour (ganodermic)

 

Now obviously tradeable skill armour and boss drops aren't really different to the person who's buying them; the requirement is still just cash and some combat stats. The first two are pretty different.

 

In the tiering system I wrote up above, I mean untradeable skill armour where it says skill (except bronze-dragon), and tradeble boss drops where it says boss.

The reason for that is that you need combat stats to wear the equipment anyway, and those combat stats would allow you to kill the boss anyway, but you don't need skills to wear armour, even if it's crafted (e.g. no crafting req to wear gano). Under the current system, anyone who can wear torva (and at least chaotic maul) can kill Nex, whereas not nearly anyone who can wear ganodermic can also craft it.

 

The idea is that there is some combat benefit to having high skills that can't be bought from people with the skills, the equivalent of extremes and overloads basically. More tradeable crafting armour wouldn't make skilling useful to combat, it would make skilling more profitable perhaps, which is a good thing, but not what the tiering system is for.

[Platinum_Myr]

I would actually enjoy a system of untradable drops that uses some new system to help determine who gets it. (better than/different than lootshare points)

 

Maybe not for full items, but like the ideas of bind-on-pickup, and bind-on-equip which. Maybe for small attachments. This would enable more boss hunting for more than just straight up gp/hr because you are hunting for a non-tradable. Not really sure how well it would carry over to RS though.

[NukeMarine]

Prayer: Create skill based prayers bringing it into line with herblore and summoning.

I'm interested. Do you mean stuff like saying a few chants while mixing potions to give a chance of extra XP/an extra dose (increased benefit), or something like a mantra while cooking to reduce your chance of burning food (reduced penalty)?

 

I always imagined it'd be like 5/10/15% boosts to non-artisan skills that deplete prayer the same way the combat prayers work. Kind of like the skilling auras except with prayer.

It could be both. A skill prayer book where some prayers are the 5/10/15% boosts to gathering skills while other prayers could benefit such as xp boosts or reduced penalties from failing. Basic idea is get the cool things that went to combat and utilize those in non-combat skills.

[Pinata]

I would like to see either Attack or Strength be a universal skill to the combat triangle.

 

I would like to see combat levels have more affect on damage output, and defence on damage reduction. This would also benefit herblore.

 

Remove the level 80 cap on magic spells and tier them to 90. Release level 90 weapons for Range and Magic. Only problem I see for T90 Armour is that would make port armours rather pointless. Not that they shouldn't eventually be out shined, but many still don't have access to all three sets and those who do have access probably got the armour within the past month or two. I'll admit that I miss the Pre-Eoc uniqueness for items. I would actually support making Superior armour level 90 and the tradable version level 85. Make it so the tradable version can be repaired via coins or port resources or something. I don't think Nex armour being devalued should hold back release of higher tiered armours considering all the dungeoneering melee weapons recently had better alternatives and Dungeoneering isn't too much older than Nex.

 

 

 

I'd like to see skills play more of a role in armour than cash or luck. Firemaking gives you the ability to light arrows/swords on fire (it's a fantasy game). Smithing allows you to harden armours or something.. etc.. etc.. Basically...

 

Kill Nex = Torva platebody

 

Torva platebody + 80 Crafting/Smithing = Spiked Torva platebody

Torva platebody + 80 Runecrafting = Torva platebody (i)

Torva platebody + all 3 = Spiked Torva platebody (i)...

 

Well this is just some of the stuff I'd like to see.

[thejollyroger]

I agree with all your points there, but I fail to see how it remotely replies to my case. I was just disagreeing with re-raising spell costs because cheaper is better and pointing out that none of the skill spells get altered because it was a combat update. Skill spells probably could do with a rehash in line with the combat spell changes and, as always, it would be good to see Lunar become more fully fledged in combat support capabilities but that requires a lot of new spells and some well designed bosses that actually NEED a support unit present.

 

You asked "why", I answered. What else do you want? To be more precise, it seems odd that catalytic runes don't have much use anymore, more so outside the Lunar spellbook. It also doesn't help that many players will get them from combat drops, NOT likely actual Runecrafting... because supposedly, Runespan is now the way to go (and yes, it's quick XP, all right).

 

A friend of mine suggested that combat drops should be rebalanced against gatherable/raw items, so that there's incentive to gather them again. The way Jagex has things now, with skills effectively being a moneysink, is rather irritating to skillers... and I think that's why some went to '07, all nostalgia aside.

 

 

I'd like to see skills play more of a role in armour than cash or luck. Firemaking gives you the ability to light arrows/swords on fire (it's a fantasy game). Smithing allows you to harden armours or something.. etc.. etc.. Basically...

 

Kill Nex = Torva platebody

 

Torva platebody + 80 Crafting/Smithing = Spiked Torva platebody

Torva platebody + 80 Runecrafting = Torva platebody (i)

Torva platebody + all 3 = Spiked Torva platebody (i)...

 

Flaming arrows have been suggested before, long ago, and I might have been part of that discussion. (Bonfires were also discussed here, which we did get.) I'm not quite sure why it's never really been implemented, but Jagex seems to be fumbling too much with poison and disease right now to really consider other damage types outside Magic. Ice arrows are in the game (Temple of Ikov area), but not enough quantities to be meaningful. I suggested gem tips be changed to be independent of metal type so rangers could have some access to elemental-type damage, but... maybe you remember how well that went over.

 

About the idea of skill-enhancing prayers-- interesting, but that niche seems to be filled by auras and scrimshaws right now, so I'm not sure how it would be implemented yet balanced by that existing niche. One thing that's always bothered me, albeit in a more combat way, is how priests aren't a discrete part of the combat triangle. They're always regarded as mages that happen to wield a mace once in a while. Healing of others is a Lunar spell, not a Prayer ability. I also have yet to see a guide that recommends putting Prayers on the Action bar or that using an amulet of zealots from Daemonheim is a worthwhile strategy. I dunno. Maybe we'll see something with god-affiliation updates, or Seren content.

[Platinum_Myr]

The fundamental issue with skills being worth while is because the goal is xp. As long as the goal is xp, prices for items will shift till it isn't profitable anymore, unless all it takes is time. Even then, it will end up being not worthwhile because the price of producing that output will either be worse xp/hr or worse gp/hr than other methods.

 

Combat is interesting because people do it for things other than xp. But other skills don't quite work that way.

 

I would be interested in having skill bonuses that don't give xp (so the method can't be used to train) but it gives other benefits. Ex: high lvl potions, though they can be used to train they also create a reason to train) and so forth.

 

Prayer for example, use != training, so you want the lvl and then get a benefit.

 

I would also love to see non-combat stuff that has effective hp, sort of like a rock that you mine and your mining actually does dmg instead of having a low accuracy but only 1 hit point. Just like combat, but you can get special rewards from it and stuff. This would enable abilities and stuff you could add for non-combat.

[thejollyroger]

The fundamental issue with skills being worth while is because the goal is xp. As long as the goal is xp, prices for items will shift till it isn't profitable anymore, unless all it takes is time. Even then, it will end up being not worthwhile because the price of producing that output will either be worse xp/hr or worse gp/hr than other methods.

 

Combat is interesting because people do it for things other than xp. But other skills don't quite work that way.

 

I think I see what you're trying to say, but I don't agree. I've never leveled many skills for pure levels alone, which how I interpret your statement of "goal is xp". For Runecrafting alone, there were quite a number of goals I had that WERE NOT directly XP, including:

• Player-owned Port content (the end goal there will eventually be Seasinger Robes)
  
• Giant Pouch (from Abyssal area)
  
• Massive Pouch and other Runespan rewards. I use Wicked items along with agility clothes to make planking mahoganies easier by hot air balloon travel. I also plan to grab the greater runic staff for saving space in inventory when I need it (Dominion Tower, teleportation spells when gathering raw mats)
  

My firemaking goals included:

• Inferno Adze (easier access to the Abyss while runecrafting, getting rid of logs while tree farming, although Bonfires help more now)
  

I burn Shades and Vyres on a regular basis for making money AS well as getting Shattered Heart rocks for additional XP. I unlocked the full power of the Ivandis Flail before Blisterwood weapons were introduced, although that benefit gets poured back into the previously mentioned activity (burning for coin).

 

I could go on and on, but I shouldn't have to.

 

Now you may protest "most players don't play that way" but I am not most players-- and I would gather some don't play conventionally either. Although bossing and the EoC *have* made it harder to play this way, I say again that I do know some players who have gone "Old School" for much this reason; they'd rather go back to profit-driven skilling. Furthermore, I would argue that Runescape has cultivated a lot of different playing styles, some quite foreign to MMOs generally (but not at all uncommon to other types of games). I just don't buy leaning to conventional so-called wisdom and "that's the way everybody does it". I find it lazy, disingenuous, and even insulting. Even if this is Jagex's design-- they ignore these aspects at their business peril. We're already fighting stereotypes that this is a kid's game that is doomed to commercial collapse. (Gamers in general are already fighting stereotypes that video gaming is kid's stuff.)

[Saradomin_Mage]

The fundamental issue with skills being worth while is because the goal is xp. As long as the goal is xp, prices for items will shift till it isn't profitable anymore, unless all it takes is time. Even then, it will end up being not worthwhile because the price of producing that output will either be worse xp/hr or worse gp/hr than other methods.

 

Combat is interesting because people do it for things other than xp. But other skills don't quite work that way.

 

I think I see what you're trying to say, but I don't agree. I've never leveled many skills for pure levels alone, which how I interpret your statement of "goal is xp". For Runecrafting alone, there were quite a number of goals I had that WERE NOT directly XP, including:

• Player-owned Port content (the end goal there will eventually be Seasinger Robes)
  
• Giant Pouch (from Abyssal area)
  
• Massive Pouch and other Runespan rewards. I use Wicked items along with agility clothes to make planking mahoganies easier by hot air balloon travel. I also plan to grab the greater runic staff for saving space in inventory when I need it (Dominion Tower, teleportation spells when gathering raw mats)
  

My firemaking goals included:

• Inferno Adze (easier access to the Abyss while runecrafting, getting rid of logs while tree farming, although Bonfires help more now)
  

Your goals directly require you to obtain 90 runecrafting and 92 firemaking, which means that you need to acquire XP, and therefore your goal was to obtain XP to acquire these items.

 

Whether or not you grind for levels or for items associated with levels, your output is still XP and your goal is intrinsically tied to it. In none of your activities is XP a worthless byproduct, because you need it to obtain the level requirements for the Port and Adze. In Myr's example, combat XP is a worthless byproduct from bossing with maxed combats.

[thejollyroger]

Your goals directly require you to obtain 90 runecrafting and 92 firemaking, which means that you need to acquire XP, and therefore your goal was to obtain XP to acquire these items.

 

Whether or not you grind for levels or for items associated with levels, your output is still XP and your goal is intrinsically tied to it. In none of your activities is XP a worthless byproduct, because you need it to obtain the level requirements for the Port and Adze. In Myr's example, combat XP is a worthless byproduct from bossing with maxed combats.

 

Semantics. I know what's important to me, and it's not the XP. It's what it grants me.

 

Describe for me another part of the elephant, blind man.

[Saradomin_Mage]

Semantics. I know what's important to me, and it's not the XP. It's what it grants me.

Most people don't grind to get their XP up for no reason, but because there's an item or unlock related to hitting a milestone. However, you still need that XP to get your unlock, and that's what you're training for. Whether you like it or not, that XP is important to you.