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What updates would you like to see in EoC?

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Just a note, I have no idea what forum this would fit best in. It's not really a suggestion, and while it would make sense to go for questionnaires, it'll probably be more of a discussion than a survey. Also, I don't mind giving the mods more paperwork mwahaha

 

Simple enough question. What sort of updates and tweaks should they be making for the EoC? What direction should they take it in, in terms of equipment, abilities, and mechanics?

 

For the record, I'm expecting better from you guys than "They should get rid of it" - ideally, the details are what will make this thread interesting. Rather than posting that, have something like "more like pre-eoc" and give details as to how they can do it.

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1) Adrenaline starts at full instead of empty. Natural regeneration doesn't have to be quick (pre-eoc was 10%/30s).

2) Level and equipment should be multiplied again, like it used to be.

3) Prayer bonus should be like lp bonus.

4) Abilities should be more general, ex. Slice, Piercing Shot and Wrack should just be the same.

5) Strength should affect ranged & magic damage as well.

 

When I think of more I'll post :P.

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I think the failing of EoC is that they started trying to bring all the combat styles in line with each other, and then gave up and went back to a melee centric game, and even gave melee new weapons that are above the rebalanced combat triangle entirely. Melee still has the lions share of the abilities and the equipment despite everything they did trying to bring other skills up to snuff. In general, I also still find the new system to be quite restrictive. Your choices for tactics seem to be stunning or not, and whether you want to go defensive. Yaaaay? That's a sliding line scale with a check box for stunning, and I would have preferred to see something more than that. Melee is already situated for much more specialization to attack and strength, and even though range and magic lack the extra skill, they could have been given abilties that specialize further as well.

 

I'd also like to see proper counter moves, both for use against other players and bosses. A counter move would be something that should negate or reduce a specific attack and give you a chance to score a guaranteed hit in return.

 

And looking at Quyneax above me, I'd like to see adrenaline start at around 50-70%. I'd rather not have the ultimate's be the first moves out the door, but I shouldn't be scrambling to maintain it between fights, or fighting bosses who are very nearly dead by the time I get up to that point.

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I would prefer it if they got rid of it, but I accept that's never going to happen, so what I actually think regarding improvements:

 

Introduce more complexity. Pre-EoC, RS's style of combat wasn't unique, but it was rare. There weren't many games to compare it to.

 

There are however, many games that use abilities/talents/whatever you want to call them, and the EoC is an objectively bad example of that style of combat system. Which was to be expected considering most other MMOs & game series have had developers working with this style of combat for a decade or more, whereas this is Jagex's first stab at it.

 

So things I'd like to see:

 

1. Each elemental type of magic spell has a unique effect, similar to the ancient spell book but a bit simpler. E.g. Fire spells always add a DoT, earth has a small chance to stun, air has a chance to slow movement speed, water has a chance to slow attack speed. That applies to the base spellbook only, the ancient spells should still count as the type of elemental damage in terms of weaknesses, but shouldn't get these effects in addition to the ones they already have.

 

2. A wider range of abilities, and making the less useful abilities more viable options. Current abilities of the type "Does extra damage if enemy is stunned" being an example of an ability that is basically useless atm. The basic 'Fury' is also completely useless, other than perhaps as a way of boosting adrenaline.

 

3. Increase the spike damage output of all bosses significantly. Increase the health of all bosses, and remove the damage cap. Death should be a very real possibility at all GWD bosses (obviously including Nex) and KK. Right now, they deal very little damage in comparison to a player's max LP wearing void or better gear. Increasing health & removing the damage cap will help make ultimates more useful.

 

4. Increase the effect of a player's levels on their combat ability. Someone with a whip and level 99 attack/strength should be able to deal at least as much damage as someone with 80 att/str and a 1h chaotic, which is not the case atm. This will also make prayer and herblore useful skills in combat again. (They are doing this already I think)

 

5. Take a comprehensive look at slayer. Cannons are severely underpowered at the moment (which appears to be a bug - they still have a max hit of 300 I believe, so looks like a JMod just forgot to change it) as is the steel titan. Most slayer tasks need a moderate nerf in xp/hr of around 20%. Obviously you'd have to go through task to task and check, as IMO mutated velds should receive a reasonable buff to slayer xp/hr, so should the xp gained for completing a Jad task. (Atm the slayer xp/hr gained doing a Jad task is significantly under the average slayer xp/hr, even if you are extremely good at powering through the fight caves)

 

6. Take a look at the way accuracy works. It's broken at the moment, and seems like you either almost always hit, or almost never do. This is most likely a result of having the stats on gear follow an exponential, meaning the gaps between tiers become much more noticeable at higher levels. I wouldn't completely do away with the exponential, as it is nice having gear paralleling xp. Just make it so it doesn't increase as sharply.

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I would disagree with you somewhat on the combo potential of bosses; nex can rip you in half incredibly quickly in void, especially if you are tanking... I would say bosses need a bit of improved dps(specially normal gwd), but frankly, they just need more Aoe attacks... KK the same.


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A lot of damage at Nex can be avoided, or recovered with SS through knowledge of game mechanics. E.g standing in the right split to SS umbra & take no damage from Nex whilst taking that minion, attacker standing behind Nex on blood & soulsplitting.

 

Even in void, she never does enough damage to actually KO you. Yes she might drain your supplies quickly if you don't know when to SS, but the big spike damage can always be easily avoided. E.g barricade on the 1st prison of ice, and have someone free you on the 2nd (as tank.) Same with the constant damage on shadow when you're MD. Yes that can do a lot of damage quickly, but no one actually takes damage that way after their first trip with maul/drygores.

 

Perhaps making Nex's spike damage less easily avoidable would be better.


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Longer momentum would be nice. I dont see what the news said about only needing a click every 20 minutes. You need to work up the adrenaline bar again. Unless i'm missing something.

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Longer momentum would be nice. I dont see what the news said about only needing a click every 20 minutes. You need to work up the adrenaline bar again. Unless i'm missing something.

It's apparently going to become a toggle ability, so that's probably going to be the case.

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I thought about this question for quite some time. All I could think of though was more customization. More basic, melee abilities would be a good start. I am sure Jagex will be filling up with these as we go on through. Overall I am very satisfied with EoC as it is right now.


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More basic abilities that do damage. Otherwise, it's fine.

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-More "imbue" options to make already acquired weapons and armours which add either improved set effects or more (critical) bonus' in general from minigames, quests, 99 smithing and specific monsters. Everything is rather bland at the moment, not much inbetween or difference.

-Double actionbar.

-Accuracy fixing.


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Personally, at nex, i find the contain attack to be extremely annoying, and it's almost a guaranteed combo in void, unless you have used anticipate/use freedom in under 1-2 attacks, because the contain att hits 3-4k, stuns you, and turns your prayer off, meaning the next few mage atts she does will destroy you. Shadow bombs, with lag, are very hard to avoid also :P

 

However, nex tanking is just ridiculous; I could probably last 6 hrs tanking without banking, if i hd a good team :P

 

What I want to see in the eoc: More abilities, specially for mage/range, improving/equalization of the combat line(triangle), fixing of dks/making them non-dead content... Fixing of bosses, to make them challenging, addition of some sorta system, like spec attacks; I do kinda miss them, as abilities arn't unique. Ill think of more later


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Just a few things off the top of my head:

 

-Bring back the combat experience rates back to whatever they were pre-EoC.

 

-Fix Dungeoneering so it's actually challenging (the monsters; give them more health, a lot more health). Right now Dungeoneering is a joke.

 

Revert the boosts of OVL back to what it was pre-EoC.

 

-Remove the new combat formula, it is atrocious. Being level 200 combat should mean that you have actually mastered all the combat skills, not 2 out 8. That's ridiculous. It's the equivalent of giving out Max Capes for having only gotten 2/8 x 25 skills to 99.

 

-Introduce a Chaotic Wand and a Chaotic 2h Sword.

 

-Stop giving sooo much free bonus experience all the time, it is destroying the game and upsetting what used to be a good equilibrium.

 

-Fix Unicorns. Pre-EoC they used to be able to heal nearly half of your XP, now their healing is pitiful and worse yet, it reduces your adrenaline.

 

-Give Magic more useful specials, most of the current ones are sort of lame. Magic needs some more hard hitters.

 

-Give high level monsters/bosses a lot more HP, and slightly more DPS.

 

-Fix autocast spells so that you don't have to set autocast back on every new dungeoneering floor.

 

-Nerf Drygores and the exponential curve. Tiers should be obviously better than their previous tier, but against the combat style that they are weak to, a strong tier weapon should not guarantee automatic victory, it should still be a challenge. So, for instance, a warrior in level 90 Melee gear should still have to struggle against a Mage in level 85 Mage gear.

 

-Undo the recent update whereby Mage weapons can no longer be used to Melee with or use Melee specials. It's very annoying, lame and illogical. I should be able to whack a person with a Battle-staff if I want, with the understanding that it would be vastly inferior in Melee in comparison to real Melee weapons.

 

-Give Range cape and the Max cape Ava's ability. As it currently stands, Rangers are at a disadvantage: Meleers/Magers can use their respective skill capes without any major hurdles, with the understanding that the critical boost will be lower than Fire Cape/Mage Arena cape, but Rangers can do no such thing because of the annoyance of picking up arrows.

 

-Give Tokhaar-Kal and Fire cape critical boosts in all 3 combat styles, with the amount of effort it takes, it is ridiculous that they have worse stats than Skill capes and the ever cheap Obby cape. I know that Jagex wants to standardize all 3 combat styles, so each item has an equivalent in the other 2 styles, but the combat styles and inherently different, this approach shouldn't be taken to an extreme. They should be relatively equal, but still different. I know they want to pretend that the 2 Tzhaar capes are the Melee equivalent of Ava's Alerter and Mage Arena capes, but they obviously aren't.

 

These are all just small things that annoy me as of late. I have a bunch of other stuff but don't have time and I am sort of blanking.

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A) Something I'd like to see is an improvement to how they "teach" the new combat. Not, saying the tutorial is bad, because it does the job. However, they sorta just how you abilities and what they do, when you'd use them on their own and have you kill a few skellies, then send you on your way. I'd like it if they showed abilities, told you the types and what they do in each combat style, as in the current tutorial, but also:

 

1) Take multiple abilities and show a short of sample combo, not just use basics until max bar then ultimate. More like giving you the task like "receive no hit from this melee type monster" where they say, "use stuns to keep the monster in place, then attack him with basics and a threshold. Your stun only last for 6 secs so you only have 6 sec to do the job". Something that forces you to think about a combo of sorts for each combat style.

 

2) Use actual monsters instead of weak to everything weak skeletons, according to your level, better showing you why range would be better than melee, and why using bolts would be the best on a bolt weak monster.

 

3) Go over prayer and potions as how they are good boost (for new players).

 

4) Review weapon tiers and appropriate tiers for your level (again, mostly for new players)

 

B) I'd like for them to strictly stick to the combat triangle even at high tiers. I once had a slayer task of Black Dragons and was completing against a guy with an Arma Battlestaff. Black Dragons are suppose to be strong against magic, so their should be no reason for him to hit constant 2k+ even with 99 magic. 1k hits are fine given his 99 magic but even if my crystal bow and range level is 10 below him (89 range at the time) I should out damage him. Even at 80/90 tier weapon unless it is a boss I really think the combat triangle needs to be enforced.


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Personally, at nex, i find the contain attack to be extremely annoying, and it's almost a guaranteed combo in void, unless you have used anticipate/use freedom in under 1-2 attacks, because the contain att hits 3-4k, stuns you, and turns your prayer off, meaning the next few mage atts she does will destroy you. Shadow bombs, with lag, are very hard to avoid also :P

 

However, nex tanking is just ridiculous; I could probably last 6 hrs tanking without banking, if i hd a good team :P

 

What I want to see in the eoc: More abilities, specially for mage/range, improving/equalization of the combat line(triangle), fixing of dks/making them non-dead content... Fixing of bosses, to make them challenging, addition of some sorta system, like spec attacks; I do kinda miss them, as abilities arn't unique. Ill think of more later

 

Yeah my clanmembers were joking about two iteming most of the GWD bosses; seems entirely plausible nowadays.


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Just a few things off the top of my head:

 

-Fix Dungeoneering so it's actually challenging (the monsters; give them more health, a lot more health). Right now Dungeoneering is a joke.

 

Revert the boosts of OVL back to what it was pre-EoC.

 

-Introduce a Chaotic Wand and a Chaotic 2h Sword.

 

-Fix Unicorns. Pre-EoC they used to be able to heal nearly half of your XP, now their healing is pitiful and worse yet, it reduces your adrenaline.

 

-Nerf Drygores and the exponential curve. Tiers should be obviously better than their previous tier, but against the combat style that they are weak to, a strong tier weapon should not guarantee automatic victory, it should still be a challenge. So, for instance, a warrior in level 90 Melee gear should still have to struggle against a Mage in level 85 Mage gear.

That would make dg floors longer, not require more skills, weaknesses should play more of a role.

 

Overloads have the same boost now but they don't drain health, making it better.

 

We have virtus wand for chaotic wand.

 

Eating food reduces adrenaline and unicorns still heal a lot of health.

 

Drygores shouldn't be nerfed, they are tier 90 and will be best until tier 90 mage/range get released.


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I'd say, merge attack and strength abilities (so say, ability x would require 40 attack, 50 strength, sofort..)

 

Prayer bonus is also underpowered to be honest, it feels like I am drinking ppops constantly.

 

 

 

Some of the things mentioned so far are already being worked on I believe.

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Two things, and two things only:

 

1: Remove the Wilderness Toggle and bring back the zones.

 

2: Levels should have a far greater impact on combat. Aka, lvl 99 att/str should hit a helluva lot harder AND more often with a whip, than a lvl 70 attack/ 1 strength person does... This would also go for Magic levels and the dmg your spells and abilities do, as well as Range dmg and accuracy being improved with a higher level... Also Defense should do more for overall (all three styles) armor rating...

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Fix minigames especially Mobilizing Armies so that they're no longer useless. I would say for MA, either buff the current imbued rings or add newer rings to the list that can be imbued. Adding seems like a better way of dealing with new content but then I'm not an expert. :P


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I would like to see them cut and paste the combat system in RS07 over the EOC combat system.

All we need is more HP for all the BS overpowered weapons.


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Since all the above has been about EoC in DG or PvE, except a couple things I'll speak about the changes I'd like to see based on PvP.

 

1) One of Jagex's objective on EoC was to not have to worry about switching interfaces to be good. In order to achieve this, we need to be able to see what affects we have on us while our inventory is up. A status bar that hovers somewhere else would be very handy. Also one that shows our enemy.

2) Damage output is way too high. The "strategy" is lost when all you have to do is get up to threshold level and just keep using those making your opponent unable to do anything because they have to spam eat, keeping their own adrenaline down. The only real strategic fights that lead to death mathces come when both players use protect to reduce damage by 50%, and then you can't put out enough damage to KO. We need a happy medium.

3) Range has to risk almost nothing to be at tier 65 gear armor with a tier 80 weapon making it way overpowered for the risk.

4) Make the protect item mechanic also protect off hand if you choose to protect main hand, otherwise this is a huge disadvantage between 2h's and dual wield.

5) Give us some sort of actual non-risk PvP. Maybe a rated arena with small teams. Castle Wars and all is cool, except there's it's too big and no rank. We want to be able to see who's the best without losing a ton of stuff, which makes us not able to use top-end armour. 3v3, or 4v4's or something similar. Possibly reward tokens that give us PvP only armour usable only in safe minigames, similar to Hybrid armour. Maybe weapons too.

 

Or split armours/weapons/abilities into PvP and PvE, and re-work all of EoC around that because I think Jagex is having a hard time building something that is balanced in both realms and have almost given up on PvP. (which to me is the only real end-game, that's why I'm playing 07 even though I enjoy EoC PvE.


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5) Strength should affect ranged & magic damage as well.

 

The variations are a lot.

For example (in my opinion the best one is)

- Strength affects the damage of melee, ranged and magic

- Attack (renamed Accuracy) affects the accuracy of melee, ranged and magic

- A new combat skill - Melee takes all the abilities requirements and melee equipment requirements.

 

In other words you'll have 3 neutral skills affecting the accuracy, the damage and the defense and 3 class specific skills which affect your Melee techniques, Ranged techniques, Magic techniques and what equipment you can wear.

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I don't see why you would want a whole new skill for that (or why you'd want to rename attack for that matter). That way, you have three skills which are completely pointless for anything but equipment, and two which actually buff the damage you do. No other skill is like that, e.g. wc/mine/fish/hunt all unlock things and boost effectiveness at the same time. It'd be really weird to have 'physics' boost 'mining' - these are practical skills we're dealing with. The reasons I pick strength to affect all skills, rather than attack, is as follows:

 

1) Melee level requirements are almost entirely attack-based, like ranged/magic level requirements are all, well, ranged/magic.

2) Strength makes more sense - shooting/aiming, casting spells and close combat are clearly different techniques, but generally being 'strong' can easily boost all three. Generally being 'accurate' seems weird to me, I don't see how a good aim with a bow would lead to a good aim with a sword or something, they're quite different. It's weird enough that an unskilled combatant can't use a high-quality sword (certainly doesn't work that way irl) so I'd rather keep it sensible.

 

Reasons against splitting accuracy & equipment:

1) It requires a whole new skill which has to be trained etc.

2) Accuracy is typically less valuable than strength; keeping all combat skills more or less equally useful is better imo.


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I would like to see them cut and paste the combat system in RS07 over the EOC combat system.

All we need is more HP for all the BS overpowered weapons.

 

I think Alg meant for this not to be a response when he said

I'm expecting better from you guys than "They should get rid of it"
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That would make dg floors longer, not require more skills, weaknesses should play more of a role.

 

Weaknesses certainly need to be looked into, but the main concern is the HP, it's a far more pressing concern. At the moment people just run through rooms spamming specials and it drops everything. Pre-EoC, you actually had to prep up a bit and think through it, now you just spam specials.

 

Overloads have the same boost now but they don't drain health, making it better.

 

Actually their boost was nerfed. Pre-EoC, Overloads boosted (assuming you had 99 in all combat stats) to 125 Att/Str/Def, 122 Ranged, and 107 Mage. Now they just give a flat 116 in all combat stats. As far as the health-drain I sort of liked it, but I don't care too much on that, I suppose.

 

We have virtus wand for chaotic wand.

 

Virtus Wand is a luxory item. High levels need another Wand that is accessible, and what better way to introduce it than Dungeoneering?

 

Eating food reduces adrenaline and unicorns still heal a lot of health.

 

Unicorns heal 30% of your HP, if you unload all 3 specials. Before it used to be 42%.

 

Drygores shouldn't be nerfed, they are tier 90 and will be best until tier 90 mage/range get released.

 

Drygores are completely overpowered, not just in relation to hypothetical 90 mage/range gear, but just in comparison to everything. This needs to be fixed, just like Dharok's got fixed. It's how Dharok's was... on steroids. It's completely antithetical to the notion of EoC (you know... balancing the combat triangle). If they love drygores so much, Jagex should just reroll EoC back, because it shits on the entire premise of the project. Also, unless I am mistaken, we have absolutely no idea when 90 mage/range will be released. It's already been 3 months.

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