What updates would you like to see in EoC?

[Hedgehog]

I think the best way to do it is to combine attack and strength into one skill: melee. Then there will be melee, ranged, and magic. As you become better in each skill, you become stronger and more skilled in that perspective. Being able to hit hard with a sword does not directly translate to being able to use a stronger bow, or hit harder with a spell; they're different kinds of strengths.

[Rinc3Wind]

I think the best way to do it is to combine attack and strength into one skill: melee. Then there will be melee, ranged, and magic. As you become better in each skill, you become stronger and more skilled in that perspective. Being able to hit hard with a sword does not directly translate to being able to use a stronger bow, or hit harder with a spell; they're different kinds of strengths.

 

Does attack affect you in EOC that much anymore?

[Hedgehog]

The only affects that attack really has atm is allowing you to wield weapons, and, more importantly, giving melee way more abilities than ranged and magic have.

[Quyneax]

Being able to hit hard with a sword does not directly translate to being able to use a stronger bow, or hit harder with a spell; they're different kinds of strengths.

Except that it does. Your all-round strength training (e.g. workout) improves every weapon, and someone who is strong from, say, mining all the time (0 every stat, 50 strength), would be able to swing a sword for a hell of a lot more damage than a trained person who spent two months in bed sick and just got up (50 every stat, 0 strength). The same miner would be able to draw a crossbow/bow the soldier couldn't. I'm not a fitness expert by any means, but as far as I know, people in all sorts of sports get stronger overall even if they mostly focus on one area. For example a gymnast specializing in the rings would still have strong legs.

[Unknown_Warrior]

Being able to hit hard with a sword does not directly translate to being able to use a stronger bow, or hit harder with a spell; they're different kinds of strengths.

Except that it does. Your all-round strength training (e.g. workout) improves every weapon, and someone who is strong from, say, mining all the time (0 every stat, 50 strength), would be able to swing a sword for a hell of a lot more damage than a trained person who spent two months in bed sick and just got up (50 every stat, 0 strength). The same miner would be able to draw a crossbow/bow the soldier couldn't. I'm not a fitness expert by any means, but as far as I know, people in all sorts of sports get stronger overall even if they mostly focus on one area. For example a gymnast specializing in the rings would still have strong legs.

 

That's applying real life physique to a game genre which never dealt in that.

By that notion, Agility should also train strength.

[Hedgehog]

Swinging a sword and pulling back a bowstring use different muscles (I think). Regardless, being super buff doesn't translate to having increased mental acuity.

[Sy_Accursed]

I know some discussion already occurred on this but especially as EoC split prayers into 'attack and 'strength' even for ranged and mage. I really think It'd make sense to rename Attack to something like Swordsmanship or Warrior or Melee.

Then make it so that it effects accuracy for melee, whilst mage and ranged do it for their classes; whilst Strength effects the max hit for all classes.

It would make sense, as others have touched on, theres the current type of strength where you literally throw your whole power into smashing a weapon into them. But there's also strength to pulling a bow tighter to fire harder or fling something harder, heck even avoiding recoil on crossbows via strength would give it a bit more punch. And as for magic it could make sense in both the sense of flinging the spell away from your stronger and mental strength to channel the magic into a more forceful hit.

 

I know it'd be a departure from what Strength currently is, but it wouldn't be outside the realms of what a strength skill could encompass.

[Ammako]

(i do agree, the current system is absolutely shit, doesn't display how skilled people are at alllll.)

But the previous system prevented Mages and Rangers from getting max combat without training Melee.

[Quyneax]

That's applying real life physique to a game genre which never dealt in that.

By that notion, Agility should also train strength.

The game deals with real life physique and physics all the time. Yes, there are always things changed to fit the game, and things related to magic, but overall, we are humans and all 'basics' concerning humans are expected to hold. As evidenced by the fact that you can train strength through fishing and wield a primal maul with perfect skill (though not many abilities), there is such a thing as 'all-round strength'.

 

And yes, agility courses could totally train strength, I'd be up for that. Agility is next (and the only one) on the list of combat skill candidates.

 

Swinging a sword and pulling back a bowstring use different muscles (I think). Regardless, being super buff doesn't translate to having increased mental acuity.

We don't have a mental acuity skill at all :(. We do have the magic skill of course, which takes its place when combat magic is concerned. But physical strength/capability as prerequisite for magical strength is a pretty basic idea that exists in numerious fantasy settings. Again, I think it makes perfect sense that a sickly yet skilled mage casts less powerful (purely in the sense of power-filled) spells than a strong yet unskilled apprentice, although the mage might cast more complex ones, which can achieve greater things in the end.

[AirlessWig]

Let us bind implings again

[Platinum_Myr]

I don't mind sacrificing realism for obtaining good gameplay. That means converting strength to a general skill applying to all range/mage/melee would be good. It fixes a lot of the disparity between the styles and doesn't feel too out of place.

[Unknown_Warrior]

Why don't they just fix 'levels mattering' by applying a simple formula:

(Stat/3)+2x(Wep tier/3) = Weapon power

 

Say you're lvl 99 Attack and using a Drygore rapier (lvl 90), with my formula it'd have the accuracy of a lvl 93 weapon.

Pot up with an overload? It'll have the accuracy of a T98 weapon.

Same applies for strength to melee weapon damage, range and mage to both their respective accuracy and strengths and defence and constitution to armour rating and lifepoints boost respectively.

[Ambler]

Let us bind implings again

This. One thing I was surprised to see not working in Beta. :(

[Saradomin_Mage]

Let us bind implings again

This. One thing I was surprised to see not working in Beta. :(

Can't target then cast bind? Granted it is more tedious ...

[Ambler]

Invalid Target or something. :/

[Z_Berenice]

I'm still waiting for non-target aoe abilities.

[Quyneax]

Why don't they just fix 'levels mattering' by applying a simple formula:

(Stat/3)+2x(Wep tier/3) = Weapon power

 

Say you're lvl 99 Attack and using a Drygore rapier (lvl 90), with my formula it'd have the accuracy of a lvl 93 weapon.

Pot up with an overload? It'll have the accuracy of a T98 weapon.

Same applies for strength to melee weapon damage, range and mage to both their respective accuracy and strengths and defence and constitution to armour rating and lifepoints boost respectively.

That does require that the exponential formula be applied after you determine weapon power. For damage, it is simply trading our 2:25 level:weapon ratio with a 1:2 ratio.

 

Personally I prefer multiplication. Ex.:

Maximum hit = C * ([stuff goes here] + (8 + [level]) * (64 + .1 * [weapon damage]) / 16)

Which is based on the max hit formula we had pre-EoC, but it takes current weapon damage values. The C can be anything (to not spoil the lovely powers of two), I made the following table with C = 1.059:

Weapon            Level    Damage    New max    Old max    Factor
Primal rapier        99    1212    1,312    1311    1.00
Promethium rapier    90    1102    1,130    1192    0.95
Gorgonite rapier    80    980    944    1060    0.89
Katagon rapier        70    857    773    927    0.83
Argonite rapier        60    735    619    795    0.78
Zephyrium rapier    50    612    481    662    0.73
Fractite rapier        40    490    359    530    0.68
Kratonite rapier    30    367    253    397    0.64
Marmaros rapier        20    245    164    265    0.62
Bathus rapier        10    112    90    122    0.73
Novite rapier        1    61    42    62    0.67

 

There curve is a bit steeper and a bit... curvier (not a linear progression). If you wanted a little more linear progression, you could for example add level to the whole thing. To help damage at lower levels, it helps to add a constant, for example 8. Doing both, you get (C = .974):

Weapon            Level    Damage    New max    Old max    Factor
Primal rapier        99    1212    1,311    1311    1.00
Promethium rapier    90    1102    1,135    1192    0.95
Gorgonite rapier    80    980    954    1060    0.90
Katagon rapier        70    857    787    927    0.85
Argonite rapier        60    735    635    795    0.80
Zephyrium rapier    50    612    499    662    0.75
Fractite rapier        40    490    377    530    0.71
Kratonite rapier    30    367    270    397    0.68
Marmaros rapier        20    245    178    265    0.67
Bathus rapier        10    112    100    122    0.82
Novite rapier        1    61    47    62    0.76

 

Haven't looked at using weapons below or above your strength level, too tired now, but I think this is worth considering. The linear progression means that strength and attack levels offer lower percentual increases as you level up, while the levels take longer to get. Personally I don't like that, so I would prefer this system.

 

Ideally the C should be accounted for in the weapon damage stat, but for now it sort of works to compare different formulas.

[ACK]

Why people don't like EoC ? its the best update Jagex ever made since 2001

No EoC, Runescape is boring

 

 

and i would like to see more high-level abilities and mixed combat style abilities

[Fallstar]

Why people don't like EoC ? its the best update Jagex ever made since 2001

No EoC, Runescape is boring

 

 

and i would like to see more high-level abilities and mixed combat style abilities

 

I say the same thing about the spider Eek, but people never take me seriously for some reason.

 

Probably something to do with me not providing any reasons for my opinions, but hey, screw the haters.

[Quyneax]

Perhaps all the reason someone needs to like an update is that it's boring without it, eh? Perhaps it pays to offer constructive criticism?

 

Anyway, tables for both formulas mentioned in my earlier post, with all weapons used at level 99:

Variant 1:

Weapon            Level    Damage    New max    Old max    Factor
Primal rapier        99    1212    1,312    1311    1.00
Promethium rapier    99    1102    1,234    1201    1.03
Gorgonite rapier    99    980    1,147    1079    1.06
Katagon rapier        99    857    1,060    956    1.11
Argonite rapier        99    735    974    834    1.17
Zephyrium rapier    99    612    887    711    1.25
Fractite rapier        99    490    800    589    1.36
Kratonite rapier    99    367    713    466    1.53
Marmaros rapier        99    245    627    344    1.82
Bathus rapier        99    112    533    211    2.52
Novite rapier        99    61    496    160    3.10

 

Variant 2:

Weapon            Level    Damage    New max    Old max    Factor
Primal rapier        99    1212    1,311    1311    1.00
Promethium rapier    99    1102    1,239    1201    1.03
Gorgonite rapier    99    980    1,159    1079    1.07
Katagon rapier        99    857    1,079    956    1.13
Argonite rapier        99    735    1,000    834    1.20
Zephyrium rapier    99    612    920    711    1.29
Fractite rapier        99    490    840    589    1.43
Kratonite rapier    99    367    760    466    1.63
Marmaros rapier        99    245    681    344    1.98
Bathus rapier        99    112    594    211    2.82
Novite rapier        99    61    561    160    3.51

 

Much more power with low-tier weapons, which is nice. Unarmed max hit would be 453 and 521 respectively, at 99 strength.

[Blutters]

It really bothers the hell out of me when I'm meleeing and it spams my chatbox saying I don't have a target. If you click a targetable entity, it should automatically become your target! I thought I could get around this frustration by pressing "T" and clicking a monster, then pressing an ability key, but at least with melee when you do that it tells you you're not close enough. Why can't my character just run into melee range??

 

Related more to the ability bar itself, we should be able to further customize each key and select what option it corresponds to on the item and have multiple keys for the same item, just with different options. I have NO idea why they didn't think of that/do that already. JaGEx was smart enough to have your familiar attack your current target if you have familiar option set to attack and you put it on the action bar, yet we can't have one keybind for attack and one for special move, practically making it worthless.

[Th e Doctor]

I would like the abilities to auto target and attack the nearest targetable monsters.

[Sy_Accursed]

I would like the abilities to auto target and attack the nearest targetable monsters.

 

I dunno if thats a good idea.

I mean what if your near a dungeon wall and the thing on the other side of the wall is closer than the things your attacking?

What if your in a multi-enemy room and only wanna fight one thing?

What if your running through somewhere/standing around using chat and accidentally trigger something?

[Deletion]

It could be toggle-able?

[Th e Doctor]

I would like the abilities to auto target and attack the nearest targetable monsters.

 

I dunno if thats a good idea.

I mean what if your near a dungeon wall and the thing on the other side of the wall is closer than the things your attacking?

What if your in a multi-enemy room and only wanna fight one thing?

What if your running through somewhere/standing around using chat and accidentally trigger something?

 

Easily fixable with a limited range or not being able to go through walls