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Saradomin_Mage

20-Aug-2013 - Divination

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>They

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Noobs: We pay we say

JaGeX: How much will you pay?

 

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At this point, for the sake of the players, I would rather prefer that they were all sharing their accounts rather than actually putting in 20-22 hour gaming sessions.

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Same here, but it's a shame if someone "wins" this way...

Edited by Quyneax

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Same here, but it's a shame if someone "wins" this way...

 

There is no shame in this, and nor I do wish that Jagex cracks them down. Jagex is the only entity responsible for incentivizing this sort of obsessive and unhealthy gameplay, no one else. So I am all for players defying their will and making a mockery out of them in any way possible. They deserve it for catalyzing this disgraceful race and circus.

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Same here, but it's a shame if someone "wins" this way...

 

There is no shame in this, and nor I do wish that Jagex cracks them down. Jagex is the only entity responsible for incentivizing this sort of obsessive and unhealthy gameplay, no one else. So I am all for players defying their will and making a mockery out of them in any way possible. They deserve it for catalyzing this disgraceful race and circus.

What a joke. That type of mentality is what drives the core of spiteful and graceless players in the runescape community and whats more bothering than that? - That your ilk are the majority of this community. No other gaming community is more volatile than the runescape community.

 

I bet you think that Jagex is responsible for game addiction too?




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What a joke. That type of mentality is what drives the core of spiteful and graceless players in the runescape community and whats more bothering than that? - That your ilk are the majority of this community. No other gaming community is more volatile than the runescape community.

 

The only joke here, a rather predictable one at that, is you coming to Jagex's defense no matter what. I refuse to be cowed around by people like you because I actually care about the health and well-being, physical and mental, of other people and of other players. I understand that you think it's no big deal if people throw their lives away (in every sense of the word) for the noble purpose of numbers in a virtual world, but I don't share your disgusting lack of regard towards my fellow human beings and players. Not only is the inherent design geared towards this sort of thing, but so are their policies (slow rates, no bonus, server wide messages, skill capes, Hiscores, etc.). As long as Jagex designs a game which requires and incentivizes this sort of behavior, I shall be here to criticize them.

 

I bet you think that Jagex is responsible for game addiction too?

 

For RS addictions, yes. It's been discussed on these forums that the very design of MMORPGs exploits the Skinner box to entrap people and induce addiction. Runescape is one of the worst examples of this because of its uniquely excessive focus on grinding.

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Except that there's similar cheating in basically every game, regardless of how competitive they are. At what point does it stop being the developers' fault and start being the player's?

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Except that there's similar cheating in basically every game, regardless of how competitive they are. At what point does it stop being the developers' fault and start being the player's?

Exactly my point I was going to raise before hitting the damn refresh button and losing my post. You can't just take the easy route and say its the developers fault. That is comparative to explaining to your boss how it was the cops fault you were late for work when you were clearly speeding and didn't get yourself together and leave in a timely manner.




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Except that there's similar cheating in basically every game, regardless of how competitive they are. At what point does it stop being the developers' fault and start being the player's?

 

We are not talking about cheating in general. We are talking about cheating by top players who are immersed into this mindless race. That is a unique case. Also, I am discussing mainly RS, which is also a unique case for its excessive grinding and efficiency culture. The situation at the top of the hiscores is entirely Jagex's fault, they are the ones who encourage it. It certainly wasn't always this way, and is only a few years old, and largely of their own doing.

 

Also, it's been proven time and time again that human beings are social creatures, malleable to fault. Our surrounding environment has a tremendous effect on us. The fact that RS players weren't always this way, and now suddenly are, is very telling. And it didn't simply happen because people woke up one day feeling some irresistible urge to get 200M and play 20 hours a day.

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Exactly my point I was going to raise before hitting the damn refresh button and losing my post. You can't just take the easy route and say its the developers fault. That is comparative to explaining to your boss how it was the cops fault you were late for work when you were clearly speeding and didn't get yourself together and leave in a timely manner.

 

Completely irrelevant analogy. It's more like complaining about your boss because your boss has subtly incentivized you to work for ungodly amounts of hours in the worst of conditions.

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Except that there's similar cheating in basically every game, regardless of how competitive they are. At what point does it stop being the developers' fault and start being the player's?

 

We are not talking about cheating in general. We are talking about cheating by top players who are immersed into this mindless race. That is a unique case. Also, I am discussing mainly RS, which is also a unique case for its excessive grinding and efficiency culture. The situation at the top of the hiscores is entirely Jagex's fault, they are the ones who encourage it. It certainly wasn't always this way, and is only a few years old, and largely of their own doing.

 

Also, it's been proven time and time again that human beings are social creatures, malleable to fault. Our surrounding environment has a tremendous effect on us. The fact that RS players weren't always this way, and now suddenly are, is very telling. And it didn't simply happen because people woke up one day feeling some irresistible urge to get 200M and play 20 hours a day.

Are you kidding 'grinding' is a broad base term. People don't just grind in runescape. I've played WoW and they grind hardcore there too. Whether it be for materials or boss instances. Grinding excessively is in no way "unique" to runescape. I"m sorry, you are wrong.

 

^^^ At the post above: You completely misunderstood me and the relevancy obviously went over your head. The relevancy is that there is misplaced blame on both the cop and the company. It reality its the persons fault for not assessing thier situation.




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Guys, remember that it's not okay to claim that someone's breaking the rules without also posting definite proof (and it better be good, not just based on 20 hour days being hard to keep up). Since you mostly seem to be discussing it in a non-personal way, it's okay, but make sure it stays that way.

 

'They' also has a function as third-person singular neutral pronoun, which may be appropriate in this case.

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Guys, remember that it's not okay to claim that someone's breaking the rules without also posting definite proof (and it better be good, not just based on 20 hour days being hard to keep up). Since you mostly seem to be discussing it in a non-personal way, it's okay, but make sure it stays that way.

 

'They' also has a function as third-person singular neutral pronoun, which may be appropriate in this case.

Yes, good thing to remember. I would like to clarify that I haven't accused anyone of rule-breaking. I have however spoken of it in a completely hypothetical way, "I would prefer it they were account sharing so that their health wouldn't suffer so much".

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Are you kidding 'grinding' is a broad base term. People don't just grind in runescape. I've played WoW and they grind hardcore there too. Whether it be for materials or boss instances. Grinding excessively is in no way "unique" to runescape. I"m sorry, you are wrong.

 

I have never stated that RS is the only place with grinding. I have also explicitly acknowledged that this is a general problem with MMORPGs. I do however think that RS is one of the more egregious offenders in this respect. Furthermore, since I play RS rather other MMORPGs, I am more familiar with it, and thus I am more inclined to critique it.

 

^^^ At the post above: You completely misunderstood me and the relevancy obviously went over your head. The relevancy is that there is misplaced blame on both the cop and the company. It reality its the persons fault for not assessing thier situation.

 

No. I understood it perfectly. This is not a 'personal responsibility' scenario. There are various factors at work here, such social engineering on Jagex's part, and the perverse incentives they set up -- that's far more important than 'personal' choice.

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Except that there's similar cheating in basically every game, regardless of how competitive they are. At what point does it stop being the developers' fault and start being the player's?

 

We are not talking about cheating in general. We are talking about cheating by top players who are immersed into this mindless race. That is a unique case. Also, I am discussing mainly RS, which is also a unique case for its excessive grinding and efficiency culture. The situation at the top of the hiscores is entirely Jagex's fault, they are the ones who encourage it. It certainly wasn't always this way, and is only a few years old, and largely of their own doing.

 

Also, it's been proven time and time again that human beings are social creatures, malleable to fault. Our surrounding environment has a tremendous effect on us. The fact that RS players weren't always this way, and now suddenly are, is very telling. And it didn't simply happen because people woke up one day feeling some irresistible urge to get 200M and play 20 hours a day.

 

 

I certainly don't speak for anyone else here, but your posts are really starting to get boring. Your attitude was bad enough before Divination was released - now it's worse.

 

Runescape isn't a product of Satan and it certainly isn't unique in regards to excessive grind and efficiency. Almost every major MMO in existence today has both of these features and the very nature of the genre makes these unavoidable.

 

No matter how many times (pretty much every post I've read) you lace your comments with backhanded comments about Jagex being the sole reason why players no life as much as they do - nothing will change.

 

You care about players and therefore people, that's great. But what you need to understand is, at worst, Jagex are taking advantage of addictive personalities. Nobody is forcing these players to deprive themselves of sleep, just as nobody is forcing them to spend an ungodly amount of time playing the game.

 

You don't have to grind or spend your life on Runescape to enjoy it. I certainly don't, and I'm sure the majority don't either. I play content I enjoy - that's it.

 

In the end, if you feel THAT strongly about Jagex's evil intent, then complaining about it on a forum really isn't the right way to go about tackling it.

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Someone correct me if I am wrong but is it not analogous to saying that fast food outlets "take advantage" of our hunger to sell their products.


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(22:28:44) <@Leik> LE INTORNUTZ SPEEK xDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD


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Someone correct me if I am wrong but is it not analogous to saying that fast food outlets "take advantage" of our hunger to sell their products.

 

Fast food outlets are responsible for the obesity epidemic. Didn't you know that?

 

/sarcasm

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Except that there's similar cheating in basically every game, regardless of how competitive they are. At what point does it stop being the developers' fault and start being the player's?

Never, it's always somebody else's fault.

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Well, I wouldn't mind it if Jagex wouldn't put silly requirements on things, like getting 20k renown to just get an emote at the BoL, or having to grind every single day the 3K limit to just get the rewards. Also, stuff like the Esteem at RuneSpan, the mindnumbing hours at Livid Farm, and should I forget, the dreadful amount of hours you have to "play" Castle Wars. Most of the players want rewards. Jagex knows this, and it's kinda sad they just add more and more of these time consuming stuff in, which could be handled very differently. I'm not saying that the game shouldn't have grindy stuff, but seriously, who in the right mind thought 5000 games of Castle Wars was a good idea to put as a requirement in a game? :s

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I certainly don't speak for anyone else here, but your posts are really starting to get boring. Your attitude was bad enough before Divination was released - now it's worse.

 

Let me be perfectly clear: I don't give even the most minuscule of thought as to what you think about my posts. I am not here to be interesting or entertaining to you. If you wish to defend Jagex, that is your prerogative. I, however, am here to share my thoughts, and I will continue to do so until the people who own this site ask me to stop, or I no longer feel the need to do so. I have my supporters as well as my critics.

 

 

Runescape isn't a product of Satan and it certainly isn't unique in regards to excessive grind and efficiency. Almost every major MMO in existence today has both of these features and the very nature of the genre makes these unavoidable.

 

Complete straw man. I have never given the impression that is pure evil. What I have stated explicitly is that it has, in addition to its escapist benefits, various disadvantages and adverse effects on players if it is played in excess, and that unscrupulous companies such as Jagex exploit that for profit. They should be more mindful of their social responsibility to their player base.

 

No matter how many times (pretty much every post I've read) you lace your comments with backhanded comments about Jagex being the sole reason why players no life as much as they do - nothing will change.

 

There's a lot that's wrong with the game, and with Jagex, particularly in recent years. I am going to tell it how I perceive it. I refuse to sugarcoat this and pretend that I like what they're doing when I don't feel that way. I have praised them in the past, though only when I see that it is deserved. Not for the sake of some erroneous need to be 'balanced' or be 'nice'. If it's an ugly situation, then I will paint an ugly picture, it's that simple.

 

You care about players and therefore people, that's great. But what you need to understand is, at worst, Jagex are taking advantage of addictive personalities. Nobody is forcing these players to deprive themselves of sleep, just as nobody is forcing them to spend an ungodly amount of time playing the game.

 

No. They are exploiting psychologically predatory designs and structures (the Skinner box) in order to get people hooked onto the game and make profit. They don't force these people in the literal sense to engage in this behavior but they do strongly encourage it. And that is my problem with them.

 

You don't have to grind or spend your life on Runescape to enjoy it. I certainly don't, and I'm sure the majority don't either. I play content I enjoy - that's it.

 

There are other people who are not as sensible as you and I, and Jagex preys on them. I blame them for this.

 

In the end, if you feel THAT strongly about Jagex's evil intent, then complaining about it on a forum really isn't the right way to go about tackling it.

 

Last I checked, forums are a place to share your thoughts and insights, and that is precisely what I am doing. If my thoughts and insights offend your loyal sensibilities to Jagex, then that is no concern of mine. Last I checked, forums are also a place for critiques, not just some orgy of praise.

 

----

 

Someone correct me if I am wrong but is it not analogous to saying that fast food outlets "take advantage" of our hunger to sell their products.

 

Depends. They certainly exploit the poor, and certain chemicals and our attachment to them. In nature, we are attracted to sweets because the sweetest things in nature are the most nutritious: fruits and for vitamins. What a place like Macdonalds does is it preys on that by lacing everything with sugar, extra sweet sauce, extra sweet bread, extra sweet meat, and so on. To such an extent that it's so sweet that it's far more sweeter than anything found in nature. It's not hard to deduce why people like that stuff.

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Except that there's similar cheating in basically every game, regardless of how competitive they are. At what point does it stop being the developers' fault and start being the player's?

Never, it's always somebody else's fault.

 

That simplistic libertarian rhetoric is pure nonsense. Individuals are not sovereigns who do they as please. Individuals are a social construction, and they are social creatures who act out of a social context. Their environment has a tremendous effect on their being and how they understand themselves and how they relate to their surroundings and how they act. This is a sociological, psychological, historical, anthropological, philosophical, and scientific fact. It will take a lot more than some one-liner to discredit this.

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Except that there's similar cheating in basically every game, regardless of how competitive they are. At what point does it stop being the developers' fault and start being the player's?

Never, it's always somebody else's fault.

 

That simplistic libertarian rhetoric is pure nonsense. Individuals are not sovereigns who do they as please. Individuals are a social construction, and they are social creatures who act out of a social context. Their environment has a tremendous effect on their being and how they understand themselves and how they relate to their surroundings and how they act. This is a sociological, psychological, historical, anthropological, philosophical, and scientific fact. It will take a lot more than some one-liner to discredit this.

You're trying too hard with this. My comment was a sarcastic joke, you should really lighten up.

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You're trying too hard with this. My comment was a sarcastic joke, you should really lighten up.

 

My apologies, then. I wasn't aware you were joking. I have heard that line before in serious contexts, so I assumed you were being serious. Cheers.

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