Behind the Scenes - November 2013

[Alg]

I'd have a hard time finding ANY game that rewards players with the most elite gear in their game without putting an insurmountable effort to obtain. Look at WoW for instance, they don't just hand people Heroic Warforged gear to "casual" players just because "it shouldn't be that hard to obtain". It's the best gear in the entire game, it SHOULD be that hard to obtain. You have casual players who can get LFR gear, and now even Flex gear, but don't take away the best gear in the game from people who dedicate themselves and deserve it, just because you want it and don't want to spend the time to earn it.

Can I just point out that Runescape's "best gear in the entire game" is still tier 90? I wouldn't have any issue with it if it was higher tier (Other than the whole "getting ahead of themselves" thing), but when they've balanced level 90 armor to be earned by a team of maxed players, you have to ask yourself if they're leaving themselves with any room to grow, especially when a big part of MMOs is that when the "best" gear is dethroned it becomes good gear for people that can't afford the best (either the price or the time investment). It's basically power creep on steroids.

 

It's the same issue as rune being at 99 smithing, where you get into the silly situation of stronger armor being easier to make from scratch. Have we reached the point where it takes longer to get chaotics from scratch than it does drygores?

 

Of course, one of the other issues is that it's basically a matter of where you put your time. Take two players; one who's spent 500 hours (random numbers yaay) making money, the other who's spent 500 hours working on skills. Guess who's going to come out ahead in pretty much every possible area? You're playing the game your own way and it works, then one day you look up and suddenly realize that all of your effort was wasted and you can't really catch up.

[Lord Zophar]

So let me get this straight--- once you kill one brother, the others stop attacking?

[Reliable]

 

I'd have a hard time finding ANY game that rewards players with the most elite gear in their game without putting an insurmountable effort to obtain. Look at WoW for instance, they don't just hand people Heroic Warforged gear to "casual" players just because "it shouldn't be that hard to obtain". It's the best gear in the entire game, it SHOULD be that hard to obtain. You have casual players who can get LFR gear, and now even Flex gear, but don't take away the best gear in the game from people who dedicate themselves and deserve it, just because you want it and don't want to spend the time to earn it.

Can I just point out that Runescape's "best gear in the entire game" is still tier 90? I wouldn't have any issue with it if it was higher tier (Other than the whole "getting ahead of themselves" thing), but when they've balanced level 90 armor to be earned by a team of maxed players, you have to ask yourself if they're leaving themselves with any room to grow, especially when a big part of MMOs is that when the "best" gear is dethroned it becomes good gear for people that can't afford the best (either the price or the time investment). It's basically power creep on steroids.

 

It's the same issue as rune being at 99 smithing, where you get into the silly situation of stronger armor being easier to make from scratch. Have we reached the point where it takes longer to get chaotics from scratch than it does drygores?

 

Of course, one of the other issues is that it's basically a matter of where you put your time. Take two players; one who's spent 500 hours (random numbers yaay) making money, the other who's spent 500 hours working on skills. Guess who's going to come out ahead in pretty much every possible area? You're playing the game your own way and it works, then one day you look up and suddenly realize that all of your effort was wasted and you can't really catch up.

 

 

I do agree with that point, yes.

 

Luckily, (as long overdue as it is) rune smithing will be adjusted down to level 50 and be more consistent with the gear currently in game during the smithing tiers.

 

I do think though even if they introduced a T99 armour, they could still have room to grow on that. They could give them different abilities, making them a bit more useful than previous T99 counterparts, at a higher cost or effort to obtain, or even could have more damage bonuses / armour values / LP boosts than their other T99 counterparts. Levels aren't the only thing that gives opportunity for growth, it just depends where Jagex will want it to go once it reaches that inevitable point. However, I do believe it will be a LONG time before these T90 sets will be outclassed.

 

On the part of where you put your time however, there will always be someone who will come out on top when comparing 2 players. It's like saying if you have someone spending 500 hours skilling via buying stuff from the GE and someone spending 500 hours DIY'ing the same skills, obviously you would have someone who came out on top. It's up to the players to spend their time wisely based on the goals they wish to achieve. Ie - If someone has a goal to max their skills, they should spend their time doing that, whereas someone who wants to own the newest uber-gear should be spending their time making money to afford it.

[Ambler]

No, it stops attacking you, and cannot be killed.

Each brother needs to die within 30 seconds of the previous one, so when I was doing it I was just leaving them at 5-10k hp each, and dying before I could get all of them down to low enough hp. :lol:

[Lord Zophar]

 

I'd have a hard time finding ANY game that rewards players with the most elite gear in their game without putting an insurmountable effort to obtain. Look at WoW for instance, they don't just hand people Heroic Warforged gear to "casual" players just because "it shouldn't be that hard to obtain". It's the best gear in the entire game, it SHOULD be that hard to obtain. You have casual players who can get LFR gear, and now even Flex gear, but don't take away the best gear in the game from people who dedicate themselves and deserve it, just because you want it and don't want to spend the time to earn it.

Can I just point out that Runescape's "best gear in the entire game" is still tier 90? I wouldn't have any issue with it if it was higher tier (Other than the whole "getting ahead of themselves" thing), but when they've balanced level 90 armor to be earned by a team of maxed players, you have to ask yourself if they're leaving themselves with any room to grow, especially when a big part of MMOs is that when the "best" gear is dethroned it becomes good gear for people that can't afford the best (either the price or the time investment). It's basically power creep on steroids.

 

It's the same issue as rune being at 99 smithing, where you get into the silly situation of stronger armor being easier to make from scratch. Have we reached the point where it takes longer to get chaotics from scratch than it does drygores?

 

Of course, one of the other issues is that it's basically a matter of where you put your time. Take two players; one who's spent 500 hours (random numbers yaay) making money, the other who's spent 500 hours working on skills. Guess who's going to come out ahead in pretty much every possible area? You're playing the game your own way and it works, then one day you look up and suddenly realize that all of your effort was wasted and you can't really catch up.

 

And this is why I firmly believe the best items should be obtained through a solo-only skills-based minigame (like Ports) that uses 99 skills requirements. Reward all the players who worked for their skills and actually PLAYED THE GAME, instead of the ones who simply got lucky or spent months flipping items.

[Reliable]

 

 

I'd have a hard time finding ANY game that rewards players with the most elite gear in their game without putting an insurmountable effort to obtain. Look at WoW for instance, they don't just hand people Heroic Warforged gear to "casual" players just because "it shouldn't be that hard to obtain". It's the best gear in the entire game, it SHOULD be that hard to obtain. You have casual players who can get LFR gear, and now even Flex gear, but don't take away the best gear in the game from people who dedicate themselves and deserve it, just because you want it and don't want to spend the time to earn it.

Can I just point out that Runescape's "best gear in the entire game" is still tier 90? I wouldn't have any issue with it if it was higher tier (Other than the whole "getting ahead of themselves" thing), but when they've balanced level 90 armor to be earned by a team of maxed players, you have to ask yourself if they're leaving themselves with any room to grow, especially when a big part of MMOs is that when the "best" gear is dethroned it becomes good gear for people that can't afford the best (either the price or the time investment). It's basically power creep on steroids.

 

It's the same issue as rune being at 99 smithing, where you get into the silly situation of stronger armor being easier to make from scratch. Have we reached the point where it takes longer to get chaotics from scratch than it does drygores?

 

Of course, one of the other issues is that it's basically a matter of where you put your time. Take two players; one who's spent 500 hours (random numbers yaay) making money, the other who's spent 500 hours working on skills. Guess who's going to come out ahead in pretty much every possible area? You're playing the game your own way and it works, then one day you look up and suddenly realize that all of your effort was wasted and you can't really catch up.

 

And this is why I firmly believe the best items should be obtained through a solo-only skills-based minigame (like Ports) that uses 99 skills requirements. Reward all the players who worked for their skills and actually PLAYED THE GAME, instead of the ones who simply got lucky or spent months flipping items.

 

 

Can't say I'd be opposed to that, as long as it takes considerable effort to obtain these items. Ports was a great start, though outside of time, it didn't require an awful lot of effort in the grand scheme of things.

[Lord Zophar]

No, it stops attacking you, and cannot be killed.

Each brother needs to die within 30 seconds of the previous one, so when I was doing it I was just leaving them at 5-10k hp each, and dying before I could get all of them down to low enough hp. :lol:

That's just an unnecessary, irritating mechanic. I've seen it repeatedly in other games, and I loathe it just as much there. From the way they made this sound, also, is the team split into teams of two, so each fight is 3 v2?

 

All around, I am not liking what I've heard about this. If they want to make an SNK boss and give him Fake Difficulty so that you will die 90% of the time, it ought to be a "safe" minigame so that your items don't degrade when you die.

[Ambler]

Yeah, though as each brother has 50k hp, it's really not too difficult. Much like any other boss by Chris L:

Die a few times on day 1

Get a decent team with t80+ gear (It's possible with t80 weps/ports armour if you know what to do)

Learn the mechanics

Eventually gain the ability to farm it for bankloots, and upgrade gear. :P

 

Oh, and the shields have a base value of 300m each in ge, making the pets requires 50(0?) of the energy and a barrows armour set.

[Lord Zophar]

 

 

 

I'd have a hard time finding ANY game that rewards players with the most elite gear in their game without putting an insurmountable effort to obtain. Look at WoW for instance, they don't just hand people Heroic Warforged gear to "casual" players just because "it shouldn't be that hard to obtain". It's the best gear in the entire game, it SHOULD be that hard to obtain. You have casual players who can get LFR gear, and now even Flex gear, but don't take away the best gear in the game from people who dedicate themselves and deserve it, just because you want it and don't want to spend the time to earn it.

Can I just point out that Runescape's "best gear in the entire game" is still tier 90? I wouldn't have any issue with it if it was higher tier (Other than the whole "getting ahead of themselves" thing), but when they've balanced level 90 armor to be earned by a team of maxed players, you have to ask yourself if they're leaving themselves with any room to grow, especially when a big part of MMOs is that when the "best" gear is dethroned it becomes good gear for people that can't afford the best (either the price or the time investment). It's basically power creep on steroids.

 

It's the same issue as rune being at 99 smithing, where you get into the silly situation of stronger armor being easier to make from scratch. Have we reached the point where it takes longer to get chaotics from scratch than it does drygores?

 

Of course, one of the other issues is that it's basically a matter of where you put your time. Take two players; one who's spent 500 hours (random numbers yaay) making money, the other who's spent 500 hours working on skills. Guess who's going to come out ahead in pretty much every possible area? You're playing the game your own way and it works, then one day you look up and suddenly realize that all of your effort was wasted and you can't really catch up.

 

And this is why I firmly believe the best items should be obtained through a solo-only skills-based minigame (like Ports) that uses 99 skills requirements. Reward all the players who worked for their skills and actually PLAYED THE GAME, instead of the ones who simply got lucky or spent months flipping items.

 

 

Can't say I'd be opposed to that, as long as it takes considerable effort to obtain these items. Ports was a great start, though outside of time, it didn't require an awful lot of effort in the grand scheme of things.

 

He'll, I'd even be okay if they made the "skiller" armor just marginally inferior to the "boss hunter" armor. Like if they decide to make t99 boss drop armor, they should make t98 skiller armor. So that the skillers can compete just as well as the uber rich elite, and the uber rich elite still maintain the ability to flaunt their wealth with what is "technically" the best gear (even though the difference between it and the non-tradeable skiller version is so small it is nearly unnoticeable).

[Lord Zophar]

Oh, and the shields have a base value of 300m each in ge, making the pets requires 50(0?) of the energy and a barrows armour set.

What do you mean?

 

They're using the old barrows sets as base items to upgrade? Please tell me they're not, or else it'll just be something the manipulator shitbags monopolize for months.

 

Well, actually. That's going to happen regardless if it upgrades the old or are new items :\

[helring]

My point is that it should be more balanced. Different ways to obtain similar items. Bossers use risk to get things quicker, merchants can use cash to get the best items, and skillers should also have a method that may take effort but ultimately reaches the same or similar goals. Dungeoneering was a way to reward effort even for those who weren't very rich. I'm not saying that it has to be fast to obtain the best gear, I just believe that there should be methods for each of the main playstyles to obtain equivalent gear. 

[Reliable]

Honestly, I'd love that, especially as one who likes to DIY alot of things, would be nice to be able to set a goal to DIY a set of high tiered gear. Atm you can only get this gear while teaming with multiple people. This is kind of why I liked the mechanic of the Ascension Crossbows, but a skilling alternative would be nice too, just unsure how they could introduce it outside of a ports-like mechanic.

[Hedgehog]

 

 

 

Oh, and the shields have a base value of 300m each in ge, making the pets requires 50(0?) of the energy and a barrows armour set.

What do you mean?

 

They're using the old barrows sets as base items to upgrade? Please tell me they're not, or else it'll just be something the manipulator shitbags monopolize for months.

 

Well, actually. That's going to happen regardless if it upgrades the old or are new items :\

I think the barrows armor is just for the pets, hopefully.

[Ambler]

Yeah, energy can be used to make armour, or to make pets.

The armour looks awesome, though obviously couldn't grab a screenshot on site. it's basically very cool looking barrows armour, with particles etc.

[Lord Zophar]

Yeah, energy can be used to make armour, or to make pets.

The armour looks awesome, though obviously couldn't grab a screenshot on site. it's basically very cool looking barrows armour, with particles etc.

Oh, so for completing it you get "energy" which you turn into the armor? Does it require any particular skill?

 

Sounds like it degrades to dust, too. At least they're consistent with that mechanic.

[Ambler]

Every person who finishes the battle gets 1 energy (unstable) escaping the area makes it stable and tradable. The exact details of escaping are something you'll have to see for yourself. Let's just say you have a decent chance of death at first. :P

[helring]

Every person who finishes the battle gets 1 energy (unstable) escaping the area makes it stable and tradable. The exact details of escaping are something you'll have to see for yourself. Let's just say you have a decent chance of death at first. :P

 

Do you lose that energy on death or do you keep it but can't trade it and thus need to make the armour yourself?

[Lord Zophar]

How many energy does it take to make a set of armor? And does it require any skills?

[Nobody]

inb4trimmed requirement :(

[Saradomin_Mage]

inb4trimmed requirement :(

Funny you should mention that; AlmostLost mentioned that beating Super Barrows was going to be a new trimmed req :P

[Ambler]

It really should be a trim req, if you have trim, you should have at least some level of pvm skill. :lol:

[Sy_Accursed]

It really should be a trim req, if you have trim, you should have at least some level of pvm skill. :lol:

 

Well you do already have to of at least visited all the bosses for the music reqs, killed a significant number of QBDs for the journals, beat the fight caves and fight kiln and not only beat Vorago but be the one to do the killing blow. So its not like the cape is lacking in pvm reqs thus far.

[Lord Zophar]

 

It really should be a trim req, if you have trim, you should have at least some level of pvm skill. :lol:

 

Well you do already have to of at least visited all the bosses for the music reqs, killed a significant number of QBDs for the journals, beat the fight caves and fight kiln and not only beat Vorago but be the one to do the killing blow. So its not like the cape is lacking in pvm reqs thus far.

 

Killing blow is a lot less difficult than you think it is. It has nothing to do with doing the most damage.

 

Vorago can ONLY be killed by using the maul of omens (at various stages of the fight, when you complete the stage, he drops 1 of the 3 pieces of the maul) on him. The last part of the fight is a damage race-- you are on a long bridge and as he damages you, he knocks you backwards. As you damage him, you push him back. When you get him to the end of the bridge, the person with the maul of omens in their inv receives a "Finish him" left click option on Vorago which ends the battle. Your team just decides ahead of time who wants to do the maul, and you have that person collect the pieces throughout the fight and then assemble it at the end and kill him.

[Yoko Kurama]

 

 

Really though if you play 4-5 hours per day, you shouldn't have any trouble earning 500m+ per month, just from killing frosts or something.

 

If you don't have money, it's because you haven't earned it.

This is just ridiculous.

I think 500 mil is probably more than my lifetime earning in like 8 years of playing. (excluding the 300mil I bought off Jagex with 50 gloves of samid)

Please go camp frost dragons every day for 4-5 hours for months to earn a level 90 armor that turns to dust in a couple of hours and isn't much better than level 80 or even 70.

I don't play that game.

Casuals don't play that game.

My point is that there's a tradeoff. The reason why you've never had more than 500m is because you've never tried to earn more than that. If you put time into making money, like you're supposed to, you'd have a lot more money. It's that simple.

 

 

It's a game, not a factory. Simply because a small minority of players have nothing better to do with their game time and real life time than to sit at the GE all day pulling accounting tricks or exploiting other people (price manipulation), or camping Frost Dragons for hours everyday for months, does not mean we should all be forced to play on that ridiculous standard. It's that simple.

[Alg]

It really should be a trim req, if you have trim, you should have at least some level of pvm skill. :lol:

Better this than another CW-style requirement. :twss: