Behind the Scenes - November 2013

[Reliable]

 

 

 

Really though if you play 4-5 hours per day, you shouldn't have any trouble earning 500m+ per month, just from killing frosts or something.

 

If you don't have money, it's because you haven't earned it.

This is just ridiculous.

I think 500 mil is probably more than my lifetime earning in like 8 years of playing. (excluding the 300mil I bought off Jagex with 50 gloves of samid)

Please go camp frost dragons every day for 4-5 hours for months to earn a level 90 armor that turns to dust in a couple of hours and isn't much better than level 80 or even 70.

I don't play that game.

Casuals don't play that game.

My point is that there's a tradeoff. The reason why you've never had more than 500m is because you've never tried to earn more than that. If you put time into making money, like you're supposed to, you'd have a lot more money. It's that simple.

 

 

It's a game, not a factory. Simply because a small minority of players have nothing better to do with their game time and real life time than to sit at the GE all day pulling accounting trips or exploiting other people (price manipulation), or camping Frost Dragons for hours everyday for months, does not mean we should all be forced to play on that ridiculous standard. It's that simple.

 

 

You aren't being forced to play on that "ridiculous" standard. If you don't want to invest the time and effort to afford expensive gear, then you don't get the gear. It's that simple.

 

You get rewarded (yes, in games as much as real life) for the effort you put forth. There isn't a game on this planet I can think of that hands you top of the line items for little to no effort. If that were to happen, there would be nothing to aspire for, thus making the game boring and useless.

[Nobody]

 

inb4trimmed requirement :(

Funny you should mention that; AlmostLost mentioned that beating Super Barrows was going to be a new trimmed req :P

 

 

I give up on trim :( 

 

It really should be a trim req, if you have trim, you should have at least some level of pvm skill. :lol:

I'm a great PVP tank, terrible at PVM.

 

 

 

It really should be a trim req, if you have trim, you should have at least some level of pvm skill. :lol:

 

Well you do already have to of at least visited all the bosses for the music reqs, killed a significant number of QBDs for the journals, beat the fight caves and fight kiln and not only beat Vorago but be the one to do the killing blow. So its not like the cape is lacking in pvm reqs thus far.

 

Killing blow is a lot less difficult than you think it is. It has nothing to do with doing the most damage.

 

Vorago can ONLY be killed by using the maul of omens (at various stages of the fight, when you complete the stage, he drops 1 of the 3 pieces of the maul) on him. The last part of the fight is a damage race-- you are on a long bridge and as he damages you, he knocks you backwards. As you damage him, you push him back. When you get him to the end of the bridge, the person with the maul of omens in their inv receives a "Finish him" left click option on Vorago which ends the battle. Your team just decides ahead of time who wants to do the maul, and you have that person collect the pieces throughout the fight and then assemble it at the end and kill him.

 

Assuming you can find a team, said team can last to that point, and said person survives to that point ([bleep]in fireball gets me every time)

 

 

It really should be a trim req, if you have trim, you should have at least some level of pvm skill. :lol:

Better this than another CW-style requirement. :twss:

 

I have no trouble grinding. Skill at PVM is what I lack.

[Hedgehog]

 

 

 

Really though if you play 4-5 hours per day, you shouldn't have any trouble earning 500m+ per month, just from killing frosts or something.

 

If you don't have money, it's because you haven't earned it.

This is just ridiculous.

I think 500 mil is probably more than my lifetime earning in like 8 years of playing. (excluding the 300mil I bought off Jagex with 50 gloves of samid)

Please go camp frost dragons every day for 4-5 hours for months to earn a level 90 armor that turns to dust in a couple of hours and isn't much better than level 80 or even 70.

I don't play that game.

Casuals don't play that game.

My point is that there's a tradeoff. The reason why you've never had more than 500m is because you've never tried to earn more than that. If you put time into making money, like you're supposed to, you'd have a lot more money. It's that simple.

 

 

It's a game, not a factory. Simply because a small minority of players have nothing better to do with their game time and real life time than to sit at the GE all day pulling accounting trips or exploiting other people (price manipulation), or camping Frost Dragons for hours everyday for months, does not mean we should all be forced to play on that ridiculous standard. It's that simple.

 

You're maxed, aren't you? Or am I thinking of someone else?

 

If so, I'm not sure how you don't already understand that to achieve the best things in this game, you have to work.

[Alg]

You're maxed, aren't you? Or am I thinking of someone else?

 

If so, I'm not sure how you don't already understand that to achieve the best things in this game, you have to work.

Nobody here is expecting to have the best things handed to them. They just want the amount of effort it takes to make sense.

 

That's the main thing here. This sort of thing is akin to telling someone to do a job, waiting for them to finish working, and then telling them that none of it counts because they didn't do some other job instead.

[Sy_Accursed]

 

 

It really should be a trim req, if you have trim, you should have at least some level of pvm skill. :lol:

 

Well you do already have to of at least visited all the bosses for the music reqs, killed a significant number of QBDs for the journals, beat the fight caves and fight kiln and not only beat Vorago but be the one to do the killing blow. So its not like the cape is lacking in pvm reqs thus far.

 

Killing blow is a lot less difficult than you think it is. It has nothing to do with doing the most damage.

 

Vorago can ONLY be killed by using the maul of omens (at various stages of the fight, when you complete the stage, he drops 1 of the 3 pieces of the maul) on him. The last part of the fight is a damage race-- you are on a long bridge and as he damages you, he knocks you backwards. As you damage him, you push him back. When you get him to the end of the bridge, the person with the maul of omens in their inv receives a "Finish him" left click option on Vorago which ends the battle. Your team just decides ahead of time who wants to do the maul, and you have that person collect the pieces throughout the fight and then assemble it at the end and kill him.

 

 

I know how Vorago works, it doesn't alter the fact for the req you don't just have to kill him you have to be the one to do the killing blow, which adds an extra layer of difficulty to it. I never thought there was anything to do with most damage involved, don't just assume random facts I have said nothing about.

[Hedgehog]

 

You're maxed, aren't you? Or am I thinking of someone else?

 

If so, I'm not sure how you don't already understand that to achieve the best things in this game, you have to work.

Nobody here is expecting to have the best things handed to them. They just want the amount of effort it takes to make sense.

 

That's the main thing here. This sort of thing is akin to telling someone to do a job, waiting for someone to finish working, and then telling them that none of it counts because they didn't do some other job instead.

 

Except that it is realistic to get a few bil entirely without flipping, merchanting, or getting lucky. If your income is 4m gp/hour, it's 250 hours to get 1b. That's the same as 99 divination.

[Reliable]

 

 

You're maxed, aren't you? Or am I thinking of someone else?

 

If so, I'm not sure how you don't already understand that to achieve the best things in this game, you have to work.

Nobody here is expecting to have the best things handed to them. They just want the amount of effort it takes to make sense.

 

That's the main thing here. This sort of thing is akin to telling someone to do a job, waiting for someone to finish working, and then telling them that none of it counts because they didn't do some other job instead.

 

Except that it is realistic to get a few bil entirely without flipping, merchanting, or getting lucky. If your income is 4m gp/hour, it's 250 hours to get 1b. That's the same as 99 divination.

 

 

Not to mention that when Whips were released, discounting the 50m pricetag for the first day or so that someone hit 85 slayer, the whips settled for around 25m per for a while. Income / hour wasn't even NEAR what it is today, I can't even think of any method back then that made 500k / hr, though it was a very long time ago. Yes, the effort is more now, but lets not just pretend that the best items were easily accessible by everyone back then, because they weren't.

 

To put it in perspective, if it was 500k / hr then, and 4m / hr now (think frosts are around that when you are efficient), it took 50 hours to obtain a whip when it was the best in the game. That same 50 hours now gives you 200m, which coincidentally, is enough to buy any set of drygores with money left over, the current BiS melee weapon as well. Sure, Ascensions are more, and Seismic has underlying issues that desperately need to be addressed, but in the same time it takes to get a whip back in the day, you can buy any set of T90 armour now, prob close to the 2 most expensive sets (haven't checked prices lately).

[helring]

 

 

 

You're maxed, aren't you? Or am I thinking of someone else?

 

If so, I'm not sure how you don't already understand that to achieve the best things in this game, you have to work.

Nobody here is expecting to have the best things handed to them. They just want the amount of effort it takes to make sense.

 

That's the main thing here. This sort of thing is akin to telling someone to do a job, waiting for someone to finish working, and then telling them that none of it counts because they didn't do some other job instead.

 

Except that it is realistic to get a few bil entirely without flipping, merchanting, or getting lucky. If your income is 4m gp/hour, it's 250 hours to get 1b. That's the same as 99 divination.

 

 

Not to mention that when Whips were released, discounting the 50m pricetag for the first day or so that someone hit 85 slayer, the whips settled for around 25m per for a while. Income / hour wasn't even NEAR what it is today, I can't even think of any method back then that made 500k / hr, though it was a very long time ago. Yes, the effort is more now, but lets not just pretend that the best items were easily accessible by everyone back then, because they weren't.

 

To put it in perspective, if it was 500k / hr then, and 4m / hr now (think frosts are around that when you are efficient), it took 50 hours to obtain a whip when it was the best in the game. That same 50 hours now gives you 200m, which coincidentally, is enough to buy any set of drygores with money left over, the current BiS melee weapon as well. Sure, Ascensions are more, and Seismic has underlying issues that desperately need to be addressed, but in the same time it takes to get a whip back in the day, you can buy any set of T90 armour now, prob close to the 2 most expensive sets (haven't checked prices lately).

 

 

When whip came out, it was the highest value weapon in game. In order to compare it you'd have to compare it to seismics not drygores. Also, you're comparing it to the money per hour from combat, we're arguing that there should be a path through skilling not combat. I can't think of any skilling activity that makes near that 4m per hour. The issue isn't just that bossing is too much but skills are broken compared to the money from other methods.

[Platinum_Myr]

Also, comparing RS to other top games.. most of them do not require 250 hours to achieve maximum in a *single* skill or profession. Yes you can say Runescape is internally consistent, but by no means does that make the amount of effort time sensible.

[Yoko Kurama]

 

 

 

 

Really though if you play 4-5 hours per day, you shouldn't have any trouble earning 500m+ per month, just from killing frosts or something.

 

If you don't have money, it's because you haven't earned it.

This is just ridiculous.

I think 500 mil is probably more than my lifetime earning in like 8 years of playing. (excluding the 300mil I bought off Jagex with 50 gloves of samid)

Please go camp frost dragons every day for 4-5 hours for months to earn a level 90 armor that turns to dust in a couple of hours and isn't much better than level 80 or even 70.

I don't play that game.

Casuals don't play that game.

My point is that there's a tradeoff. The reason why you've never had more than 500m is because you've never tried to earn more than that. If you put time into making money, like you're supposed to, you'd have a lot more money. It's that simple.

 

 

It's a game, not a factory. Simply because a small minority of players have nothing better to do with their game time and real life time than to sit at the GE all day pulling accounting trips or exploiting other people (price manipulation), or camping Frost Dragons for hours everyday for months, does not mean we should all be forced to play on that ridiculous standard. It's that simple.

 

You're maxed, aren't you? Or am I thinking of someone else?

 

If so, I'm not sure how you don't already understand that to achieve the best things in this game, you have to work.

 

 

Understanding something is not the same thing as endorsing it. I know how this game works, I simply refuse to accept it as sensible. There's a difference, and it's not all that subtle either. Like I said, I wish for the game to return to more sensible times. 

[Hedgehog]

Things are more realistic than ever to achieve, so I don't know what you're talking about.

[Yoko Kurama]

Things are more realistic than ever to achieve, so I don't know what you're talking about.

 

Then you're obviously out of the loop or have no agreeable concept of 'realistic'. And it's of course completely false as well. In earlier times, aside from rares, everything else was accessible (gear) for some amount of dedicated effort. No gear required hundreds of hours of monotonous grinding or insane luck to obtain. Barrows, the armour that was undeniably the best for everything and had no equal was 15-20 million GP at MOST. Even Whips quickly (and I mean really quickly) dropped in value as the amount of people hitting 85 Slayer increased.

[Quyneax]

Things are more realistic than ever to achieve, so I don't know what you're talking about.

That's like saying that the Democratic People's Republic of Korea (also known as North Korea) is more democratic than ever :D. Which, apart from anything else, I don't think it is, but that's not the point. RS is still a very grindy game, and although it's getting easier to get 99s, it's not easy (= takes a short time) to get max/comp/trim by any standards. Adding another 4b gp to afford max gear is pretty steep, especially considering that it is entirely mono-combat (or flipping, which is not the most balanced part of the game itself and could do with a change). Even obtaining dragon hatchets and pickaxes is primarily combat-based, as are many items which are high-end skilling resources that have associated gathering/processing skills (runite ore, magic logs, dragonstones, coal, royal/ascension bolts, pure essence) and so on. There are competitive skill-based armours at lower levels (armours added with EoC, see batwing and such - they still require resources obtained through combat of course), but for the most part, combat is the best or only source of high-end items even for skilling items. The argument that risk should come with greater reward (and that risk implies combat, specifically) doesn't apply either - for example, there's no reason you couldn't make a mining rock that deals damage if you fail, or a plant that takes a lot of effort to farm and dies often. Skillers are simply not given the opportunity to take risks or make lots of money, which is Jagex' fault on top of the rather high price of seismics.

 

Basically, there should be risky and safe methods of making money for combat and skilling.

There should be combat and skilling rewards for combat and skilling methods.

 

For example, the QBD could be a relatively safe combat method of obtaining skilling items: bones, hides, crossbow parts (currently not even a part of fletching, which is fairly lame).

Vorago is a prime example of a risky combat method of obtaining combat items. The KK and Nex also. They all do drop skilling items too, but that's not their primary drop item.

Most gathering skills fall into the safe skilling methods of obtaining skilling items.

Herblore is a safe skilling method of obtaining combat items.

Smithing is a safe skilling method of obtaining nothing useful, but theoretically mostly combat items - Tetsu is, of course, a good second-rate armour set.

 

Risky skilling? Maybe wishing well bushes? LRC? Err, Creature Graveyard in MTA? There's also wilderness runite rocks, and somehow none of those are good profit.

 

tl;dr PvM is living far above its station with both combat and skilling drops. Remove all ores, bars, herbs, raw fish, food, potions, logs, essence, runes and every other skilling resource and product from all monster drop tables and add some high-end skilling armours (t85-t90 minimum, power armour and weapons also), that would perhaps level the game a little.

 

The people who bring up that 500m-2b price tags are reasonable forget that not everybody's looking to spend 100-400 hours at the same boss. Variety is the spice of life and skilling has many fans, too. Even apart from the amount of grind you want to accept (which, I guarantee, isn't 400+ hours for a single item for most people), the game is seriously unbalanced.

[Urza285]

 

Things are more realistic than ever to achieve, so I don't know what you're talking about.

 

Then you're obviously out of the loop or have no agreeable concept of 'realistic'. And it's of course completely false as well. In earlier times, aside from rares, everything else was accessible (gear) for some amount of dedicated effort. No gear required hundreds of hours of monotonous grinding or insane luck to obtain. Barrows, the armour that was undeniably the best for everything and had no equal was 15-20 million GP at MOST. Even Whips quickly (and I mean really quickly) dropped in value as the amount of people hitting 85 Slayer increased.

 

Dude, really? Have you ever heard of building from a foundation? They want you to obtain things, go places, see things...Its moments like vorago and the elite barrows that are culminations of all that effort made.

[Yoko Kurama]

 

 

Things are more realistic than ever to achieve, so I don't know what you're talking about.

 

Then you're obviously out of the loop or have no agreeable concept of 'realistic'. And it's of course completely false as well. In earlier times, aside from rares, everything else was accessible (gear) for some amount of dedicated effort. No gear required hundreds of hours of monotonous grinding or insane luck to obtain. Barrows, the armour that was undeniably the best for everything and had no equal was 15-20 million GP at MOST. Even Whips quickly (and I mean really quickly) dropped in value as the amount of people hitting 85 Slayer increased.

 

Dude, really? Have you ever heard of building from a foundation? They want you to obtain things, go places, see things...Its moments like vorago and the elite barrows that are culminations of all that effort made.

 

 

'Dude really' yourself, please. If you have been following the argument that myself and have others have launched in this thread, it's quite simple to follow: the amount of effort and time needed for a lot of the items in the game is increasingly and pathologically becoming obsessive. I simply, and others in this thread as well, have a healthier and more reasonable conception of what amount of effort should be needed to access in-game content. They have a set a ridiculous and elitist standard, and we have called them out on it, that's all there is to it. There's no need to 'dude really' anyone.

[Urza285]

 

 

 

Things are more realistic than ever to achieve, so I don't know what you're talking about.

 

Then you're obviously out of the loop or have no agreeable concept of 'realistic'. And it's of course completely false as well. In earlier times, aside from rares, everything else was accessible (gear) for some amount of dedicated effort. No gear required hundreds of hours of monotonous grinding or insane luck to obtain. Barrows, the armour that was undeniably the best for everything and had no equal was 15-20 million GP at MOST. Even Whips quickly (and I mean really quickly) dropped in value as the amount of people hitting 85 Slayer increased.

 

Dude, really? Have you ever heard of building from a foundation? They want you to obtain things, go places, see things...Its moments like vorago and the elite barrows that are culminations of all that effort made.

 

 

'Dude really' yourself, please. If you have been following the argument that myself and have others have launched in this thread, it's quite simple to follow: the amount of effort and time needed for a lot of the items in the game is increasingly and pathologically becoming obsessive. I simply, and others in this thread as well, have a healthier and more reasonable conception of what amount of effort should be needed to access in-game content. They have a set a ridiculous and elitist standard, and we have called them out on it, that's all there is to it. There's no need to 'dude really' anyone.

 

Your arguments are about "pathologically obsessive nature." You arguments are predictable and more so whether or not your response will be condescending or not.

[helring]

 

 

 

 

Things are more realistic than ever to achieve, so I don't know what you're talking about.

 

Then you're obviously out of the loop or have no agreeable concept of 'realistic'. And it's of course completely false as well. In earlier times, aside from rares, everything else was accessible (gear) for some amount of dedicated effort. No gear required hundreds of hours of monotonous grinding or insane luck to obtain. Barrows, the armour that was undeniably the best for everything and had no equal was 15-20 million GP at MOST. Even Whips quickly (and I mean really quickly) dropped in value as the amount of people hitting 85 Slayer increased.

 

Dude, really? Have you ever heard of building from a foundation? They want you to obtain things, go places, see things...Its moments like vorago and the elite barrows that are culminations of all that effort made.

 

 

'Dude really' yourself, please. If you have been following the argument that myself and have others have launched in this thread, it's quite simple to follow: the amount of effort and time needed for a lot of the items in the game is increasingly and pathologically becoming obsessive. I simply, and others in this thread as well, have a healthier and more reasonable conception of what amount of effort should be needed to access in-game content. They have a set a ridiculous and elitist standard, and we have called them out on it, that's all there is to it. There's no need to 'dude really' anyone.

 

Your arguments are about "pathologically obsessive nature." You arguments are predictable and more so whether or not your response will be condescending or not.

 

 

I would say that the issue is that bosses seem to be the only real culminations that Jagex provides. They don't have that cool stuff and decent money for skills, outside of ports which I'd say is a good start on how they can do cool stuff like that for skills.

[Yoko Kurama]

 

 

 

 

Things are more realistic than ever to achieve, so I don't know what you're talking about.

 

Then you're obviously out of the loop or have no agreeable concept of 'realistic'. And it's of course completely false as well. In earlier times, aside from rares, everything else was accessible (gear) for some amount of dedicated effort. No gear required hundreds of hours of monotonous grinding or insane luck to obtain. Barrows, the armour that was undeniably the best for everything and had no equal was 15-20 million GP at MOST. Even Whips quickly (and I mean really quickly) dropped in value as the amount of people hitting 85 Slayer increased.

 

Dude, really? Have you ever heard of building from a foundation? They want you to obtain things, go places, see things...Its moments like vorago and the elite barrows that are culminations of all that effort made.

 

 

'Dude really' yourself, please. If you have been following the argument that myself and have others have launched in this thread, it's quite simple to follow: the amount of effort and time needed for a lot of the items in the game is increasingly and pathologically becoming obsessive. I simply, and others in this thread as well, have a healthier and more reasonable conception of what amount of effort should be needed to access in-game content. They have a set a ridiculous and elitist standard, and we have called them out on it, that's all there is to it. There's no need to 'dude really' anyone.

 

Your arguments are about "pathologically obsessive nature." You arguments are predictable and more so whether or not your response will be condescending or not.

 

 

I should hope my arguments are predictable. I have been consistently saying the same thing for a while. I don't know why anyone would or should expect any different from me.

 

As for condescension, I do not think I have responded to anyone with any more hostility or condescension than they have shown me. 

[Golvellius]

 

If you put time into making money, like you're supposed to...

 

No just no.

Nobody cares about GP except RWTers.

 

 

Except that it is realistic to get a few bil entirely without flipping, merchanting, or getting lucky. If your income is 4m gp/hour, it's 250 hours to get 1b. That's the same as 99 divination.

 

 

Laughable, not even remotely realistic.

The biggest problem with Runescape is the big ticket items.

You drop one and your set.

You buy all your skills with one drop.

It ruins the entire game and fills it up with knucklehead elitist that spout inane shit about how you have to train in the most expensive way possible.

It just shits on 99% of the content in Runescape.

Jagex repeatedly fails to responsibly handle tradeable item rarity.

I have would have no problem with the tectonic bath robes if they were untradeable. 

Sure they are garbage because they go to dust in 2 hours, but at least if you couldn't trade them on the GE then it wouldn't shit up the game.

 

Also, for everybody comparing this game to WOW. The good stuff in WOW is untradeable.

So it's not possible to ruin your own game experience or others.

Also, PVM is far more than Nex or Voragmo.

So let's not even remotely say that you don't PVM if you aren't fighting raid monsters.

[God Of Lego]

Caring about GP does not make you a RWT'er. Some find it fun to make mass cash. And heck I wouldn't blame them for giving into RWT'ing when they get bored.

[Ambler]

don't think this has been posted yet, shows ahrim's turret attack and Dharok's "give it all to me" attack.

[Lord Zophar]

So another tidbit I've heard is that to do Barrows Delux you need a special totem from regular barrows... No idea on drop rates, but apparently you lose it on death.

 

Yet another silly mechanic designed solely to frustrate players by adding "fake difficulty" to this, thereby making the items that much more difficult to obtain and easier to manipulate. Get a [bleep]ing clue, Jagex.

[V O R K]

waw so pretty... *dies* :D. Ooh i'm going to love those brothers!

 

I don't mind tectonic, buy it, go to vorago, degrades 5-10 percent, money made back by split. 

 

You can KK in warpriest, ascension dungeon can be duo'd or even soloed.

 

I mine runite from time to time or go cutting magics, fish a few lobsters... Why? Simply because I enjoy it at that moment and I know all these little things will keep adding up. By no chance do I believe I will get rich from these activities unless I invest time in an efficient way.... Thus which monsters are you hunting or what are you hoping for that might make you enough money to buy expensive equipment?

 

Do you want nex gear? Go kill that boss.

 

Do you want tectonic? Team up and kill that boss.

 

i'm just going to flip the tables... i'm really happy that these prices are so high, I wouldn't want someone who just smithed his way to the top to be able to buy these armours! Certainly it's unfair but it's endgame content and it's dropped by a boss. Same like you get nice things from quests and you get chaotics from dungeoneering.

 

Before runite was endgame and you smithed it, people were obscenely rich. It's only logical (imo), ofcourse skills should be more involved but even with skilling it doesn't take that spectacularly long before you can afford Nex gear and go kill every boss your heart desires to get the end gear.

 

I care about GP, it's actually the only reason I skill from time to time. 

 

Are you in a clan? Do you have a friendslist? I've went to KK with just ganodermic with friends, that really didn't cost me much and the drygore split was great. Sorry that we can't mine one ore every few hours that is worth 2b, I know the price is obscene but that should motivate you to get it yourself (and promote teamwork).

 

Really not trying to rustle jimmies; i'm kind of sad how much time I sometimes have to spend with skilling but one way or another, i'll have to work for it.

[helring]

 

Not sure if this was posted.

 

 

Vork, one of the issues with what you posted is that bossing shouldn't be the only real end-game content. Right now it seems to be their main go-to whenever they want to release new armour,weapons, etc. There really wasn't any reason they can't spread end-game gear out among a bunch of different activities.

[Ambler]

The barrows totems are trade able though, completely forgot about them as we got them for free on the test accounts :lol:

I remember someone mentioning that it made the original barrows worth doing for lower levels :P