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Behind the Scenes - November 2013


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By the way, you can start rcing nats at 45 which is roughly 3-6m per hou

Even at 92 you'd have to craft 8000 ess/hr for 3m/hr RCing. Runewiki states you can craft 3000 ess/hr grahking, so lets say 4000 max? yeah nowhere near 3-6m/hr even at 92, let alone 45.

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DK drops (solo/LS): 66 hatchets, 14 archer rings, 13 berserker rings, 17 warrior rings, 12 seerculls, 13 mud staves, 7 seers rings

QBD drops: 1 kite, 2 visages, 4 dragonbone kits, 3 effigies, lots of crossbow parts

CR vs. CLS threads always turn into discussions about penis size.
...
It's not called a Compensation Longsword for nothing.

I've sent a 12k combat mission to have Aiel assassinated (poor bastard isn't even Pincers-tier difficulty).

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By the way, you can start rcing nats at 45 which is roughly 3-6m per hou

Even at 92 you'd have to craft 8000 ess/hr for 3m/hr RCing. Runewiki states you can craft 3000 ess/hr grahking, so lets say 4000 max? yeah nowhere near 3-6m/hr even at 92, let alone 45.

 

 

Ok, yea, thats what I figured but didn't want to call him wrong because I haven't runecrafted in a year or two, at least not outside of span.

R.I.P. The olde nite. A legend is gone but not forgotten.

 

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What would happen if we made t90 equipment cost 50m for the whole set (t90 in every slot) without decreasing moneymaking capabilities overall?

 

People who want to set cash goals can do so through rares or upgrading their PoH or collections or whatever.

People who want to do high-end PvM can do so because they can afford the equipment.

People who want to do high-end PvP can do so because they can afford to risk the equipment.

People who want to just finish the game equipment-wise don't have to grind moneymakers for months.

 

Equipment, or gp, is not a requirement for the completionist cape, so as such it is not part of the 'main goal' of the game. That's for a reason - it shouldn't be a goal at all: cash is meant to be a go-between to exchange effort between players. It's much better to have a large investment to unlock equipment, followed by cheap items - think smithing untradable t90 platebodies from untradable ores at a quest-unlocked furnace built with 90 construction and using t90 cut stone (crafting), requiring untradable t90 logs and 90 firemaking to light, and it takes half an hour to smith (think ceremonial swords but bigger).

 

There is absolutely no reason to make equipment the cash-goal. The best equipment doesn't have to be expensive at all. There's really no in-game reason to make drygores 100m, even if that's fairly cheap - they work just as well at 30m (just make them more expensive than lower-tier items, please). Expensive equipment is, for example, horrible for PvP, because you can never risk good gear - cheap, high-end gear is way better.

 

Just like real life: getting cash is not useful (and in any case, doesn't really make you much happier past a certain point - you see that in RS also, once you can afford to throw around cannons and barrages on everything, it doesn't really get any better). Getting awesome things with your cash is more useful. The most useful is getting stuff that will remain with you forever - experience(s) (I don't think owning a really fast car is really any fun if you don't experience driving really fast*, for example, unless you think having an unused Ferrari is the mark of a champion. Regardless, e-fame is most definitely not a goal of the game).

 


*As such, I don't think owning a really fast car is any fun.

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Supporter of Zaros | Quest Cape owner since 22 may 2010 | No skills below 99 | Total level 2595 | Completionist Cape owner since 17th June 2013 | Suggestions

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Tormented demon drops: twenty effigies, nine pairs of claws, two dragon armour slices and one elite clue | Dagannoth king drops: two dragon hatchets, two elite clues, one archer ring and one warrior ring

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See I used to be like you guys, complaining about prices of items.  Then I took all the energy wasted in complaining and did something about it.  Now bring on the people saying I cheated or merched or staked or bought gp or whatever.  I did none of that.  Also bring on the people saying I'm lucky or whatever. 

 

Are prices insane? Yes.  But unlike real life you can do something about it.

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See I used to be like you guys, complaining about prices of items.  Then I took all the energy wasted in complaining and did something about it.  Now bring on the people saying I cheated or merched or staked or bought gp or whatever.  I did none of that.  Also bring on the people saying I'm lucky or whatever. 

 

Are prices insane? Yes.  But unlike real life you can do something about it.

 

And this kinda of response is where people are as dense as a brick wall and do not get the point:

 

The point is not we are 'whining' or could just be doing it or people 'cheating,' its not even whether or not we are or are not making the money.

The point is we SHOULDN'T have to spend hours doing something we don't enjoy, we SHOULD be able to earn equally regardless of what avenue of the game we enjoy the most.

 

If we all just accept the unbalanced status quo and make do and say nothing how do we expect it to get fixed?

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What would happen if we made t90 equipment cost 50m for the whole set (t90 in every slot) without decreasing moneymaking capabilities overall?

 

People who want to set cash goals can do so through rares or upgrading their PoH or collections or whatever.

People who want to do high-end PvM can do so because they can afford the equipment.

People who want to do high-end PvP can do so because they can afford to risk the equipment.

People who want to just finish the game equipment-wise don't have to grind moneymakers for months.

 

Equipment, or gp, is not a requirement for the completionist cape, so as such it is not part of the 'main goal' of the game. That's for a reason - it shouldn't be a goal at all: cash is meant to be a go-between to exchange effort between players. It's much better to have a large investment to unlock equipment, followed by cheap items - think smithing untradable t90 platebodies from untradable ores at a quest-unlocked furnace built with 90 construction and using t90 cut stone (crafting), requiring untradable t90 logs and 90 firemaking to light, and it takes half an hour to smith (think ceremonial swords but bigger).

 

There is absolutely no reason to make equipment the cash-goal. The best equipment doesn't have to be expensive at all. There's really no in-game reason to make drygores 100m, even if that's fairly cheap - they work just as well at 30m (just make them more expensive than lower-tier items, please). Expensive equipment is, for example, horrible for PvP, because you can never risk good gear - cheap, high-end gear is way better.

 

Just like real life: getting cash is not useful (and in any case, doesn't really make you much happier past a certain point - you see that in RS also, once you can afford to throw around cannons and barrages on everything, it doesn't really get any better). Getting awesome things with your cash is more useful. The most useful is getting stuff that will remain with you forever - experience(s) (I don't think owning a really fast car is really any fun if you don't experience driving really fast*, for example, unless you think having an unused Ferrari is the mark of a champion. Regardless, e-fame is most definitely not a goal of the game).

 


*As such, I don't think owning a really fast car is any fun.

This is the most compelling argument against the best gear being "status symbols" that I've ever read. Kudos.

 

And really, by continuously releasing extremely challenging bosses with lousy drop rates, they ensure that the drops are just that-- STATUS SYMBOLS. Rares and those silly Barrows pets that will apparently require FIVE HUNDRED energy to make are great status symbols. Anything useful should never be a status symbol. It shouldn't require 20 hours a week for six months just to get one item. That is a [bleep]ing part-time JOB, not a game. People seem to be blind to this fact.

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By the way, you can start rcing nats at 45 which is roughly 3-6m per hou

Even at 92 you'd have to craft 8000 ess/hr for 3m/hr RCing. Runewiki states you can craft 3000 ess/hr grahking, so lets say 4000 max? yeah nowhere near 3-6m/hr even at 92, let alone 45.

 

 

I am derp. Pff, I really wanted it to be that much :(

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When you start comparing working long hours in RL to achieve your goals to working long hours in a video game, that tells me something is very wrong with the video game.

 

Stop whining, you loser. Don't you know that cool people can not only afford to throw hundreds of hours of their life for one in game item, but more over that they actually enjoy doing this? 

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When you start comparing working long hours in RL to achieve your goals to working long hours in a video game, that tells me something is very wrong with the video game.

 

Stop whining, you loser. Don't you know that cool people can not only afford to throw hundreds of hours of their life for one in game item, but more over that they actually enjoy doing this? 

 

Absolutely. Because everybody totally cares about and respects people who have amassed tens of billions of imaginary gold in a video game that is more than 12 years old. At least, that's what moronic wealth hoarders tell themselves as they wade through their heaps of gold like Scrooge McDuck.

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When you start comparing working long hours in RL to achieve your goals to working long hours in a video game, that tells me something is very wrong with the video game.

 

Stop whining, you loser. Don't you know that cool people can not only afford to throw hundreds of hours of their life for one in game item, but more over that they actually enjoy doing this? 

 

That feel when my RS game time is more than 378 DAYS, and I don't have a teenth of what some of these [wagon] have.

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When you start comparing working long hours in RL to achieve your goals to working long hours in a video game, that tells me something is very wrong with the video game.

 

Stop whining, you loser. Don't you know that cool people can not only afford to throw hundreds of hours of their life for one in game item, but more over that they actually enjoy doing this? 

 

Funny, because you are quoting the guy who sunk hundreds of hours into perfecting how to kill Jad on many different types of accounts in many different ways. All for one item also, technically.

 

 

 

See I used to be like you guys, complaining about prices of items.  Then I took all the energy wasted in complaining and did something about it.  Now bring on the people saying I cheated or merched or staked or bought gp or whatever.  I did none of that.  Also bring on the people saying I'm lucky or whatever. 

 

Are prices insane? Yes.  But unlike real life you can do something about it.

 

And this kinda of response is where people are as dense as a brick wall and do not get the point:

 

The point is not we are 'whining' or could just be doing it or people 'cheating,' its not even whether or not we are or are not making the money.

The point is we SHOULDN'T have to spend hours doing something we don't enjoy, we SHOULD be able to earn equally regardless of what avenue of the game we enjoy the most.

 

If we all just accept the unbalanced status quo and make do and say nothing how do we expect it to get fixed?

 

Except that doesn't work for any game.  There will always have to be something in the way, whether or not you enjoy it, to get the best items in any game.  Also, you forget that the point of this game is to get people playing as long as possible.  Even without you getting the best items, and even though you are mad, you still are playing right?  If you had all the best items, there is less of a chance of you playing.  It's just how it works.

 

And it's funny how I didn't include in my original statement that I barely play and when I do it's not even a crazy amount, so everyone assumes I play runescape like it's a full time job.  Meanwhile if I log in, many of the people I see complaining will be on at that given moment.  Now how about that?

 

It took time yes, but I still got what I wanted.  No one has patience, it's all about instant gratification.

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When you start comparing working long hours in RL to achieve your goals to working long hours in a video game, that tells me something is very wrong with the video game.

 

Stop whining, you loser. Don't you know that cool people can not only afford to throw hundreds of hours of their life for one in game item, but more over that they actually enjoy doing this? 

 

Funny, because you are quoting the guy who sunk hundreds of hours into perfecting how to kill Jad on many different types of accounts in many different ways. All for one item also, technically.

 

 

Not only did he do that to help other people, but he did it voluntarily (there was no in game requirement forcing him to do it several times), and because he found it fun, and because at that point in his life he could play quite a bit of Runescape (I believe he works 60-70 hours weekly now). I also believe he did that over the course of several years in aggregate, rather than being forced to do it in a 5 month period continuously in order to obtain some item. So it's not even a relevant or accurate point. It is in no way comparable to Jagex's ridiculous insistence whereby everyone is forced to play several hundred hours on activities they don't particularly care for, so that they can access top gear. Nice ad hominem derailment though. Don't make assumptions about other people when you don't know them.

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When you start comparing working long hours in RL to achieve your goals to working long hours in a video game, that tells me something is very wrong with the video game.

 

Stop whining, you loser. Don't you know that cool people can not only afford to throw hundreds of hours of their life for one in game item, but more over that they actually enjoy doing this? 

 

Funny, because you are quoting the guy who sunk hundreds of hours into perfecting how to kill Jad on many different types of accounts in many different ways. All for one item also, technically.

 

 

Not only did he do that to help other people, but he did it voluntarily (there was no in game requirement forcing him to do it several times), and because he found it fun, and because at that point in his life he could play quite a bit of Runescape (I believe he works 60-70 hours weekly now). So it's not even a relevant or accurate point. It is in no way comparable to Jagex's ridiculous insistence whereby everyone is forced to play several hundred hours on activities they don't particularly for, so that they can access top gear. Nice ad hominem derailment though. Don't make assumptions about other people when you don't know them.

 

It's fine, because you are also assuming that 1) people are forced 2) nobody is having fun 3) no one can play quite a bit of runescape, and you are ignoring everything else I posted, and when you reply you will probably ignore everything here too.  We can all make fallacies and assume wrong together.

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I thought it as obvious that he was saying that, in the event that you DO want to get the top gear, then you ARE forced to do it.

While it is true that there are people who are having fun doing it and that there are people that can play quite a bit of RuneScape, in no way does it mean everyone can or would be willing to.

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When you start comparing working long hours in RL to achieve your goals to working long hours in a video game, that tells me something is very wrong with the video game.

 

Stop whining, you loser. Don't you know that cool people can not only afford to throw hundreds of hours of their life for one in game item, but more over that they actually enjoy doing this? 

 

Funny, because you are quoting the guy who sunk hundreds of hours into perfecting how to kill Jad on many different types of accounts in many different ways. All for one item also, technically.

 

 

Not only did he do that to help other people, but he did it voluntarily (there was no in game requirement forcing him to do it several times), and because he found it fun, and because at that point in his life he could play quite a bit of Runescape (I believe he works 60-70 hours weekly now). So it's not even a relevant or accurate point. It is in no way comparable to Jagex's ridiculous insistence whereby everyone is forced to play several hundred hours on activities they don't particularly for, so that they can access top gear. Nice ad hominem derailment though. Don't make assumptions about other people when you don't know them.

 

It's fine, because you are also assuming that 1) people are forced 2) nobody is having fun 3) no one can play quite a bit of runescape, and you are ignoring everything else I posted, and when you reply you will probably ignore everything here too.  We can all make fallacies and assume wrong together.

 

 

Number 1 is not a presumption. I regard Jagex putting ridiculous requirements for things they know we want to be a kind of 'soft' force. Number 2 is not an assumption on my part. I can speak for myself and several others who do not find spending ridiculous amount of hours at the GE flipping, or making money so we can access high tier items to be fun. This isn't an assumption, this is a fact -- that's how I feel, and that's how they feel (therefore my statement reporting what myself and others find to be fun or unfun is a fact). Remember, I didn't say everyone finds this to be unfun, I said some people find it to be unfun-- and that's obviously true. 

 

I haven't ignored anything of yours. It's all been addressed a dozen times, only for yourself and others like you to come and make the same ridiculous argument about how we all just need to work harder, and how we have no patience and are just in it for 'instant gratification'. It's literally been addressed a thousand times, it seems you are the one ignoring replies and making straw man arguments.

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When you start comparing working long hours in RL to achieve your goals to working long hours in a video game, that tells me something is very wrong with the video game.

 

Stop whining, you loser. Don't you know that cool people can not only afford to throw hundreds of hours of their life for one in game item, but more over that they actually enjoy doing this? 

 

Funny, because you are quoting the guy who sunk hundreds of hours into perfecting how to kill Jad on many different types of accounts in many different ways. All for one item also, technically.

 

 

Not only did he do that to help other people, but he did it voluntarily (there was no in game requirement forcing him to do it several times), and because he found it fun, and because at that point in his life he could play quite a bit of Runescape (I believe he works 60-70 hours weekly now). I also believe he did that over the course of several years in aggregate, rather than being forced to do it in 5 month period continuously in order to obtain some item. So it's not even a relevant or accurate point. It is in no way comparable to Jagex's ridiculous insistence whereby everyone is forced to play several hundred hours on activities they don't particularly for, so that they can access top gear. Nice ad hominem derailment though. Don't make assumptions about other people when you don't know them.

 

=D>

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Understood.  Then what do people plan on doing about it? Complaining like they have for the past 7+ years?  I've heard this same tired argument over and over again every time something was expensive.  All I see is complaining, no solution making. I'm done complaining.  Say whatever you want to say about me, but sitting here isn't going to change anything.

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Understood.  Then what do people plan on doing about it? Complaining like they have for the past 7+ years?  I've heard this same tired argument over and over again every time something was expensive.  All I see is complaining, no solution making. I'm done complaining.  Say whatever you want to say about me, but sitting here isn't going to change anything.

 

Firstly, this argument is not 7+ years old because Jagex didn't always insist on such a ridiculous standard. Believe it or not, Runescape was once quite a reasonable thing, with regards to its requirements. 3B Wands and Orbs never happened before. This is something I have repeatedly pointed out is a recent phenomenon in my various posts. 

 

As for what we plan to do, we plan to criticize this as we have been doing in the hopes that Jagex will listen. Not only is this our right, but it is also a completely constructive activity and one which Jagex theoretically approves of and welcomes.

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Understood.  Then what do people plan on doing about it? Complaining like they have for the past 7+ years?  I've heard this same tired argument over and over again every time something was expensive.  All I see is complaining, no solution making. I'm done complaining.  Say whatever you want to say about me, but sitting here isn't going to change anything.

 

Firstly, this argument is not 7+ years old because Jagex didn't always insist on such a ridiculous standard. Believe it or not, Runescape was once quite a reasonable thing, with regards to its requirements. 

 

As for what we plan to do, we plan to criticize this as we have been doing in the hopes that Jagex will listen. Not only is this our right, but it is also a completely constructive activity and one, which Jagex theoretically approves of and welcomes.

 

You seem to forget how much abyssal whips and barrows were.  And rares have always been something unreachable to many.  Yes, this argument is very old, it just doesn't seem that way.  It comes up every time something big is released and the price doesn't drop fast enough.  Last time it was Nex stuff.

 

Don't worry guys, maybe in 2 years when seismics are at alch price you can get some, since it seems no one wants to actually try and get them.

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As for what we plan to do, we plan to criticize this as we have been doing in the hopes that Jagex will listen. Not only is this our right, but it is also a completely constructive activity and one which Jagex theoretically approves of and welcomes.

...And apparently, saying "Make skills matter" doesn't qualify as anything other than complaining.

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Understood.  Then what do people plan on doing about it? Complaining like they have for the past 7+ years?  I've heard this same tired argument over and over again every time something was expensive.  All I see is complaining, no solution making. I'm done complaining.  Say whatever you want to say about me, but sitting here isn't going to change anything.

 

Firstly, this argument is not 7+ years old because Jagex didn't always insist on such a ridiculous standard. Believe it or not, Runescape was once quite a reasonable thing, with regards to its requirements. 

 

As for what we plan to do, we plan to criticize this as we have been doing in the hopes that Jagex will listen. Not only is this our right, but it is also a completely constructive activity and one, which Jagex theoretically approves of and welcomes.

 

You seem to forget how much abyssal whips and barrows were.  And rares have always been something unreachable to many.  Yes, this argument is very old, it just doesn't seem that way.  It comes up every time something big is released and the price doesn't drop fast enough.  Last time it was Nex stuff.

 

Don't worry guys, maybe in 2 years when seismics are at alch price you can get some, since it seems no one wants to actually try and get them.

 

barrows and whips were never at the level seismics, or even ascensions are at. 

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DK drops (solo/LS): 66 hatchets, 14 archer rings, 13 berserker rings, 17 warrior rings, 12 seerculls, 13 mud staves, 7 seers rings

QBD drops: 1 kite, 2 visages, 4 dragonbone kits, 3 effigies, lots of crossbow parts

CR vs. CLS threads always turn into discussions about penis size.
...
It's not called a Compensation Longsword for nothing.

I've sent a 12k combat mission to have Aiel assassinated (poor bastard isn't even Pincers-tier difficulty).

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Understood.  Then what do people plan on doing about it? Complaining like they have for the past 7+ years?  I've heard this same tired argument over and over again every time something was expensive.  All I see is complaining, no solution making. I'm done complaining.  Say whatever you want to say about me, but sitting here isn't going to change anything.

 

Firstly, this argument is not 7+ years old because Jagex didn't always insist on such a ridiculous standard. Believe it or not, Runescape was once quite a reasonable thing, with regards to its requirements. 

 

As for what we plan to do, we plan to criticize this as we have been doing in the hopes that Jagex will listen. Not only is this our right, but it is also a completely constructive activity and one, which Jagex theoretically approves of and welcomes.

 

You seem to forget how much abyssal whips and barrows were.  And rares have always been something unreachable to many.  Yes, this argument is very old, it just doesn't seem that way.  It comes up every time something big is released and the price doesn't drop fast enough.  Last time it was Nex stuff.

 

Don't worry guys, maybe in 2 years when seismics are at alch price you can get some, since it seems no one wants to actually try and get them.

 

 

Abyssal whips were expensive for a very short time (they were like 30M or so, for a very short while, nowhere near the current situation). They quickly plunged and became affordable as there were several people in the 85 slayer race. Also, you were guaranteed to get them if you achieved a particular skill, 85 slayer (and in those days, just about everyone was racing for them). So it was not an unreasonable expectation. Furthermore, we also had an alternative weapon which was almost as good in the Dragon Scimitar, which was extremely cheap (100k, I think), and even had uses that the whip didn't (strength training). This was actually great balancing on Jagex's part. Not at all comparable to the current situation. They aren't even in the same galaxy of unreasonableness, whips in 2005 and the current situation.

 

As for Barrows, the best barrows set, Guthans was a paltry 15M -- which is absolutely nothing now, and certainly not then. There were a myriad of ways to obtain it very easily and it was by far the best armour in the game for various activities, and it had a groundbreaking effect (healing). Even at 1M/hour (which one could easily make, even low level players), that would only take 15 hours for the best armour in the game. That's extremely reasonable. So not comparable at all, again, to the current situation. I have gone over both the example of the whip and barrows in previous posts.

 

Also, you are once again launching your desperate and tried "no one wants to do work" argument. For the millioneth time, we are not asking for free stuff, we are asking for a reasonable standard for obtaining items, so that the game is more fun, dynamic, and the community is healthy. That is NOT the same thing as being impatient or wanting free stuff. How many times am I going to have to explain this elementary concept to you? You keep ignoring it, or refuse to understand it.

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Abyssal whips were expensive for a very short time (they were like 30M or so, for a very short while, nowhere near the current situation). They quickly plunged and became affordable as there were several people in the 85 slayer race. Also, you were guaranteed to get them if you achieved a particular skill, 85 slayer (and in those days, just about everyone was racing for them). So it was not an unreasonable expectation. Furthermore, we also had an alternative weapon which was almost as good in the Dragon Scimitar, which was extremely cheap (100k, I think), and even had uses that the whip didn't (strength training). This was actually great balancing on Jagex's part. Not at all comparable to the current situation. They aren't even in the same galaxy.

 

As for Barrows, the best barrows set, Guthans was a paltry 15M -- which is absolutely nothing now, and certainly not then. There were a myriad of ways to obtain it very easily and it was by far the best armour in the game for various activities, and it had a groundbreaking effect (healing). Even at 1M/hour (which one could easily make, even low level players), that would only take 15 hours for the best armour in the game. That's extremely reasonable. So not comparable at all, again, to the current situation. I have gone over both the example of the whip and barrows in previous posts.

 

Also, you are once again launching your desperate and tried "no one wants to do work" argument. For the millioneth time, we are not asking for free stuff, we are asking for a reasonable standard for obtaining items, so that the game is more fun, dynamic, and the community is healthy. That is NOT the same thing as being impatient or wanting free stuff. How many times am I going to have to explain this elementary concept to you? You keep ignoring it, or refuse to understand it.

 

I understand what you are asking for.  What I'm saying that it isn't possible from a business view. The part that I was saying that you ignored was this, which I posted: the point of this game is to get people playing as long as possible.  So far, it has worked very well, so much that people who are saying it is impossible to get X item will stay play despite that belief.  The fact that people have these complaints about the game not being fun yet still continue to play and discuss it is remarkable.

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What fun is there when you eventually get the top end gear? You go and kill a boss with this top end gear for lower gear?

Having lots of money in this game is also pretty boring, especially when you can afford everything.

The reason why seismics are so expensive is because people aren't doing the boss at the moment due to believing that it is a hard boss when infact it is easy and the drop rate is currently very close to the drop rate of items at nex.

Robbstarkded.png

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