"Rate my room" thread removed. Reason:

[MyPurpleCrayon]

 

Dwarfie, much of the strife here comes from the fact that this rule is just one in a slew of recent (past 6 months to a year) that has been slowly choking out our freedom and our fun.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If they had these rules in the first place we would never have joined. The forums used to be lots of fun. But now we're worrying over useless crap for useless reasons and that fun is now all but vanished.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I agree, most of the rules enforced here are quite stifling for anyone over the age of 13. But hey, that's life. Rules change and complaining about them rarely gets them changed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There is a slight possibility this time though...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Otherwise all of us, as in everyone that has posted on this topic, wouldn't try.

[Anesthesia]

How much money do you contribute to the upkeep and maintenance of this site?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Given the amount of money you contribute to the upkeep and maintenance of the site, what amount of say do you feel entitled to as to how this site should be run?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We all contribute to the costs of running costs of this forum by being served adverts.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also, if myspace is censored in message bodies, how come it is allowed in a person's 'website' section in their profile?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Anyway, I very much appreciate that this has been left open for comments.

[jaklumen]

 

It is the parents' job to ensure the safety of their children

 

 

 

This is a good point and one I agree with.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I agree with this, too. This reminded me of something...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

My wife Cimmorene used to be a library page, a long time ago, and she told me of numerous incidents where parents would come up to her and say, "Why is my child reading this book?" and having to remind them that the library did not supervise what their children read. My sister and brother-in-law are librarians, too, and I'm sure they could add comments of their own regarding censorship and parents supervising their children.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sure, the library computers are filtered, but that doesn't mean there isn't a way to get around them-- my brother-in-law told me that much. No, parents need to be aware of what their kids are doing. As a parent, I'll say this much: computer in a bedroom=bad idea.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'll respect GSW's opinion as he has been a staff member in the past.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Having said that, I also respect Sunli's concerns. There has been much debate concerning the Internet eventually being regulated as other media are... and not so much if, but when. There is always a possibility that legal entanglements can arise, i.e. civil or criminal lawsuits.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

One real-life case involving a lawsuit that I can think of is "Cyberspace vs. Engler". For various reasons, I will leave it at that.

[Greatsilverwyrm]

Having said that, I also respect Sunli's concerns. There has been much debate concerning the Internet eventually being regulated as other media are... and not so much if, but when. There is always a possibility that legal entanglements can arise, i.e. civil or criminal lawsuits.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'll repeat this again. This is the one and only site I know with a userbase that isn't 95% sub-13 years old that has this much of an, honestly, bordering extremely close on retentive personal information ruleset.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What's ironic, is that not only do we have a lame ruleset for, let's face it, the off topic forum(s), where the userbase is especially above-13. Where in the RS forums, we have a rants board. What the heckl? Honestly.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'll also repeat that I think the admins are choking our freedoms on the extremely vague possibility that somone will be tracked victimized based solely off the information gleaned from these forums.

[RaenonD]

If I was still here, I'd say "yay! they're banned! hooray!"...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But only because they're silly and annoying, not because they're that serious of a risk.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If someone is posting their name, address, and phone number all over their room, and then taking a photo, split it off or edit it out.

 

 

 

Deal with it on a case by case basis.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Seriously now, even I'm saying this is going too far.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh, and dwarfie, do you even hear yourself, telling former staffmembers what contributing to the site is all about?

[Fat_Slug]

this is why simply i try and watch my kids when they play on pc.

 

 

 

i know tip it is trying to keep everyone safe, but trouble is you can't please everyone. the elder ones of us know all about safety, and are hopefully sensible enough to give info out, but only to those we can trust.

 

 

 

lots here are not trustworthy tho, and thats why i think the admins have done this.

 

 

 

i do think its been taken a lil too far in this case, but if a kid has access to a camera, and to take a pic of his room, then put it on the web, and post it here- i'd like to know whether the parents know what they have done? chanses are the parents didn't know, otherwise they wouldn't have let them put it on the net in the first place. i know that is why my daughter who is 12 has a pc in her room, but no net. nor will she ever have. if she wants to put pics on the net she will haveto do it on the pc's downstairs which are supervised. but then again she managed to accept a file on msn with which virused this pc(tis cleaned :mrgreen: ) while i was in the same room watching her.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

its a fact of life there are bad people out there- but we can't do anything about it here to change that by taking down post about pic of rooms. and tbh i don't see how stopping peoples pic being posted will change much either- peeps will just go to another forum and post them there. we are in a minority here and we won't survive as a forum if we don't adapt.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

sorry if this is a lil too ott :twisted:

[Sunli]

Dwarfie, much of the strife here comes from the fact that this rule is just one in a slew of recent (past 6 months to a year) that has been slowly choking out our freedom and our fun.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If they had these rules in the first place we would never have joined. The forums used to be lots of fun. But now we're worrying over useless crap for useless reasons and that fun is now all but vanished.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In average, we get 4200 new users every month. How does this look like a forum that is "choking the users fun"? We are ranked as the 6th largest RPG forum in the world! I like to think this is partly because of the staffs decissions and rules - and staff.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I want you all to know that we will discuss this and your input on this are greately appreciated (as long as the input is input and not immature flames) and will be taken into consideration when we decide what to do.

[Mercifull]

I saw this post a few days ago but didnt really know what to say. I kinda hoped it was a mistake by the admins, an oversight on common sense perhaps but i guess not.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No real life pictures... fair enough, banning personal details being posted... fair enough. But now banning a picture of inside a house, on the off chance that someone has an envelope in the background that the address is on is ridiculous. Have there actually been any cases of this? I would very much doubt it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If there are any issues with a person posting an image that could potentially lead to trouble then it should be sorted on a one to one basis with an administrator contacting the user to explain that its no "safe" to do what they did. Thats much better than a blanket ban taking away peoples fun and community spirit.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

All the new rules and changes in the last 6 months have just taken more and more fun away from us. The suggestions board was ignored before then taken away completely, then the admins go ahead and make a rule such as this. We are becoming so bland and faceless, you cant imagine what the person you are talking to is like anymore because you cant describe or say what you like to do anymore. How about banning giving out email addresses and instant messenger contact details, afterall people might have a rl pic in their avatar?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Theres so many things i want to say about this issue but i just cant be bothered, our cries seem to fall on deaf ears and i dont really want to start a massive row about this issue. All i am going to say now is that i am very dissapointed with the decision. That is all.

[Anesthesia]

In average, we get 4200 new users every month. How does this look like a forum that is "choking the users fun"? We are ranked as the 6th largest RPG forum in the world! I like to think this is partly because of the staffs decissions and rules - and staff.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Do you not think that many of them will join just because its big? Just because this is 'the institute' and one needs to be a part of it to get something done - to get help with the game and to buy and sell wares. A huge number will join just because its got lots of users.

[Mercifull]

After 6 months how many of those 4200 users are regular day to day posters? Afterall its the regular posters who are the ones at "risk" here dont you think the community should cater more for thier needs?

[How2PK]

No real-life pictures is something, I could understand, the reasons were reasonable. But this is just plain ridiculous, I'm sorry. Your need to 'protect' the users of this forum is going too far, the reasons for our 'protection' are getting more farfetched every day. This is removed because somebody might post a picture where you might see a paper where somebody might zoom in on and then that person might see where you might live. Doesn't that sound a tad weird? And, did it ever occur that there could be members that don't want all that protection, that they can think for theirselves? That people can decide by theirselves weither they want to post their pictures. Instead of banning it completely, a good guide where people can get good information on why not to post a picture would be better, after reading they can still decide if they want to post a picture of their room, pet, telephone or whatever.

[Arcticrunite]

 

 

 

I dont think hes been here long enough to know they are former staff members, so hes making himself look even stupider than he already is

 

 

 

Yes, because join date is the one and only measure of the validity of someone's point. Do the world a favour and die in a fire.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Youve just turned a sensible debate into a flame war, and with that, you have just lost respect of most of the users on the Tip.It Forums

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now, GETTING BACK TO THE ORIGINAL TOPIC!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I do think this has gone a little bit too far. All this kid was doing was showing the inside of his room. Ok, its his room, i dont see a streetsign in the background, nor did i see envelopes with addresses and etc. I agree with Wyrm to a certain extent. The reason i joined this forum was to chat with other users and to meet new friends. Isnt that what Runescape's all about? Making new friends? It's just a little bit pathetic that we can only make friends anymore being based on what their Runescape character does. What about getting to know someone from say London England for an example. Londons a big town. All a person has to say is "Hey im from London". You don't have to show a picture of your neighborhood, or say what street and address you live on. If a person does that, they should be liable for what they do. And if the person is underage, their parents should be liable for what they do. In all honesty, tip.it staff, i have this to ask. How many people do you think say theyre above 13 so they dont have to get something signed by their parents? I'd say about 70-80% do that. It's also the same with pornographic material, we all know that little kids say theyre 18 just to do it. People should be liable for themselves and Parents should be liable for little kids.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That being said, i wanna make this final statement, i think this is a step out of line. If we cant have SOME personal freedom on here, then why do we even bother trying to make friends?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you dont agree with what i said, thats cool, your entitled to your opinion.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you do agree with what i said, and how i said it, and what i meant, i congradulate you.

[Greatsilverwyrm]

 

Dwarfie, much of the strife here comes from the fact that this rule is just one in a slew of recent (past 6 months to a year) that has been slowly choking out our freedom and our fun.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If they had these rules in the first place we would never have joined. The forums used to be lots of fun. But now we're worrying over useless crap for useless reasons and that fun is now all but vanished.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In average, we get 4200 new users every month. How does this look like a forum that is "choking the users fun"? We are ranked as the 6th largest RPG forum in the world! I like to think this is partly because of the staffs decissions and rules - and staff.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

How many of those users actually become regular posters? How many of those regular posters are regular off-topic posters?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I would also love to beleive that our comments actually are being taken into consideration, but, as Matt said, it seems like our comments have fallen on deaf ears too many times to retain any hope.

[Lightning]

i'm not going to argue with anyone here about whats been done or why.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just my point of view as a mother of two kids.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I just looked around their room and if they took pictures of their room ,, well i wouldnt be happy, as they had school books laying around with their name on, a poster up of our seaside town and pictures of fmaily. not hard to figure out. Some Kids wouldnt think first before doing such a thing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

However i will bring this issue up with the other admins here but what Sunli did as far as im concerned was for the best.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ye sit is up to the parents to keep a eye on their kids on net but not always can we keep our eyes on them 100 percent of the time. It was done for your own protection.

[biox]

I think this is a great idea.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not because I think that it would be feasible for a predator to somehow identify a residence/address/etc from a picture of a room, oh no.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Look at how mad you've made the OT'ers Sunli!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Bravo!

[Rizla]

I've been away so i'm not going to read through 6 pages of arguing but here's my (simple) take on things.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm 21 years old (22 in less than 2 weeks) - i don't see why i should have to be told where and if i can post a picture of a room in my house. I can understand that some parents might get mad if they thought their kids were posting personal information on a website, but i don't even live with mine!

 

 

 

I feel i'm old enough and mature enough to take care of myself, and i really don't think i'd be in any danger if i posted a picture of myself on this, or any other website (with obvious exceptions, but let's just say the websites i frequent on a daily basis). Regardless of the "dangers" involved, i'd be considered an adult in any country in the world, and i feel this should mean i can decide if i want my picture made available in any online domain.

 

 

 

Surely people over the age of 18 could post pictures without this site being in any sort of legal trouble? If that's the only concern, why not just put something in the T&C during the sign up process?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry if any of this has already been said.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edit: Looking through the thread i've seen some good arguments, and it's good to see some mods agreeing with the user base. I can understand (to a certain extent) why there's been such a clampdown on personal information but i really think it's gone too far. There's a fine line between being cautious about user safety, and completely choking the life out of the community.

 

 

 

I posted a picture of my car the other day in which the license plate is visible, should this be deleted? Soem people have their home state in their location - should this be allowed?

 

 

 

The way things are going here i can't see myself staying around too long - i've outgrown the game this community is based around, but at least i could, in the past, enjoy myself in the offtopic section.

[dusqi]

 

 

 

How much money do you contribute to the upkeep and maintenance of this site?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Given the amount of money you contribute to the upkeep and maintenance of the site, what amount of say do you feel entitled to as to how this site should be run?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

None :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

However, we're not trying to start a revolution - some problems can be reformed without having to take the drastic option of leaving and starting a new forum. We're giving our opinions after being implicitly invited to do so (by this open thread) in the hope that change can be made to benefit everyone. Just because the administrators have 'all the power' and can do what they please, it doesn't mean that they won't consider our opinions also :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sadly if they don't then eventually, as a few people have been saying, some of us will take the option of 'moving on'. But taking the time to give our opinions before that suggests that we like it here in general, and think it's worth trying to get things changed for the better :)

[jaklumen]

Topic has been removed of drift/flames. Please stay on topic.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now, having said that, I don't think this topic should be locked. I think this should continue to be discussed.

[Death_By_Pod]

 

 

 

I do understand your point - but still we cant take those chanses. Another aspect we have to consider is the possible lawsuits we could get amongts us if the worst case scenario should happen.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not a certified lawyer but it would be pretty common sense that a forum has absolutely 0 liabilities (unless itÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s hosting criminal activities, i.e. warez) over what a person posts regardless of age. If the worst comes to worst and someone wants to sue you, how on earth will that be done? Most likely they are in a different country, pretty much making it impossible to sue.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If it actually comes to court you can pretty much defend yourself (no doubt someone would take your case pro-bono, since something like this would be great for their resume) by saying itÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s the parentÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s responsibility to monitor the childÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s internet activities and that you use the COPPA system for children under 13. Come off it, this is like buying volcano insurance when you live in a country without volcanoes, sure it could happen but its amazing close to zero of actually occurring. Has there ever been such a case where a forum has been sued for letting someone post identifiable information?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I just looked around their room and if they took pictures of their room ,, well i wouldnt be happy, as they had school books laying around with their name on, a poster up of our seaside town and pictures of fmaily. not hard to figure out. Some Kids wouldnt think first before doing such a thing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ye sit is up to the parents to keep a eye on their kids on net but not always can we keep our eyes on them 100 percent of the time. It was done for your own protection.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I know you canÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t keep an eye on kids 100%, but wouldnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t it be irresponsible on the parents part to allow a child to own a camera if they didnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t understand certain things arenÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t allowed to be photographed (for e.g. your child nude)? Why not extend this to the internet, if you donÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t teach your child about the hazards of the internet, donÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t give them the internet.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

ItÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s not the issue of keeping an eye on your child, its teaching responsibility and delegating rights as a reward for their responsibility. If you buy something like the internet and you give your child free reign and they get stalked as a result you are a failure of a parent. How hard is it to drill ideas as donÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t post personal information, donÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t post pictures etc.? If they donÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t want to play by your rules then take the internet away, simple. Once you teach them the responsibility, then you donÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t need to keep an eye on your child 100%.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I donÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t think TIF wants to restrict your posting; itÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s the legal repercussions that come as a result of posting freedoms. The problem that liability is a perceptive threat much like communists are under your bed or that the world is going to end because of a religious war. ItÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s a load of fud hyped by the media; people won't sue you over not proving enough serviettes with your burger meal, they won't win and get millions of dollars in 'damages'. Most of these cases are complaints filed against a company, they use the media for publicity and then you never see them file a court order, you never hear from them again.

[frizoid]

I don't know of any other fansites that have a policy such as this, most allow real life pictures etc.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Most of the users here aren't kids, they are fully aware of what they are doing and what implications it may have on their lives. Seriously how many news articles have you seen where someone has been abducted due to posting a picture of their room on an internet fansite? I can't recall any.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Tip.it may have a large number of registered users, but they aren't all regular posters, just because its one of the largest fansites doesn't mean that its one of the best (no offense).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Restricting users like this can bring nothing but harm, they will be forced to show their friends pictures by other means that aren't moderated, at least if they do it out in the open on the forums then a mod can remove pictures that might compromise the users safety.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If someone did, in the extrenely likely circumstances, get stalked due to posting a picture on the site I can't see the site having any liability, they didn't force the user to post the picture, so it is their problem.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You let us show our email addresses, and I know my email address has my full name and my location, are you going to stop this as well?

[RoyalKnight]

I know I just switched forums to here from RSC.com, but that ban is ridiculous :| I doubt if even Sherlock Holmes would find out where I live if I take a picture of my room.

[TheRealist]

Off topic is my favorite (and only) section of the forum to go on. I agree with us deciding ourselves if we want to give personal information out, that's our decision, not an admins.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Besides, looking at the room pictures, I had some good ideas I wanted my dorm to look like :)

[Rizla]

I don't mean to try and stir up trouble here, but there seem to be a lot more members of staff against the closing of the topic (and subsequent rules) than for it.

 

 

 

Either the people for this rule aren't speaking up, or the opinions of the majority of staff have been overlooked.

[Anesthesia]

Merely that they are what they are and the person who foots the bill has the right to set them any way they choose.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The users foot the bill, as I said before - they are served adverts which pay the costs. Other than that, if there are any extra costs I believe Silverion pays - and as far as I know he has virtually nothing to do with the rulemaking.

[MyPurpleCrayon]

 

 

 

 

I dont think hes been here long enough to know they are former staff members, so hes making himself look even stupider than he already is

 

 

 

Yes, because join date is the one and only measure of the validity of someone's point. Do the world a favour and die in a fire.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Youve just turned a sensible debate into a flame war, and with that, you have just lost respect of most of the users on the Tip.It Forums

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now, GETTING BACK TO THE ORIGINAL TOPIC!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I do think this has gone a little bit too far. All this kid was doing was showing the inside of his room. Ok, its his room, i dont see a streetsign in the background, nor did i see envelopes with addresses and etc. I agree with Wyrm to a certain extent. The reason i joined this forum was to chat with other users and to meet new friends. Isnt that what Runescape's all about? Making new friends? It's just a little bit pathetic that we can only make friends anymore being based on what their Runescape character does. What about getting to know someone from say London England for an example. Londons a big town. All a person has to say is "Hey im from London". You don't have to show a picture of your neighborhood, or say what street and address you live on. If a person does that, they should be liable for what they do. And if the person is underage, their parents should be liable for what they do. In all honesty, tip.it staff, i have this to ask. How many people do you think say theyre above 13 so they dont have to get something signed by their parents? I'd say about 70-80% do that. It's also the same with pornographic material, we all know that little kids say theyre 18 just to do it. People should be liable for themselves and Parents should be liable for little kids.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That being said, i wanna make this final statement, i think this is a step out of line. If we cant have SOME personal freedom on here, then why do we even bother trying to make friends?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you dont agree with what i said, thats cool, your entitled to your opinion.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you do agree with what i said, and how i said it, and what i meant, i congradulate you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just to let you know, I agreed with every single thing you said in the post. :P

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ecspecially the part in bold, thank you.