Do YOU believe in God?

[HugATree]

I'm still seeing Microevolution in textbooks. I mean, oh noes...the creationists are writing our textbooks now!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Seeing as alot of people have been affected by creationisms misconceptions, its not surprising textbooks would still explain it even if they both work from the same mechanisms.

[Noobsaregae7]

Im Agnostic

 

 

 

I belive in god but i think the prophets s t r e t c h e d it a bit

[Fiery_Gyr]

Death by Pod:And as for the pagan thing, the general term refers to non-big 3 religions, but specifically the worship of nature. I was so happy to date a girl from the old country, but she failed to tell me she worshiped the Celtic nature spirits in addition to God...yeah, that did'nt last long.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I LOVE it when guys run away from me when I tell them I'm a pagan. Telling them I'll put an evil spell on them is even better :lol:

 

 

 

Most of them don't run away, but the gaze in their eyes is funny enough for me ^^

 

 

 

I like it best when they told me they like me, their reaction is soooooo nice to see :wink:

 

 

 

Seriously, they call themselves MEN, omg they are really losers. xD

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Back on-topic,

 

 

 

I kind of understand your situation though, I won't be able to live with a christian or muslim guy as well... :wink:

[Spikestrip98]

Yes I do. Even if youre one of the people who dont believe in him I think you should. If you do and he isnt real, what have you lost? If you do and he is real then youve earned eternal life in Heaven.

[Mercifull]

estrip98"]Yes I do. Even if youre one of the people who dont believe in him I think you should. If you do and he isnt real, what have you lost? If you do and he is real then youve earned eternal life in Heaven.

Thats a really bad reason to be part of a religion. :-/

[Anesthesia]

estrip98"]Yes I do. Even if youre one of the people who dont believe in him I think you should. If you do and he isnt real, what have you lost? If you do and he is real then youve earned eternal life in Heaven.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This argument is known as Pascal's Wager. It has several flaws.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Firstly, it does not indicate which religion to follow. Indeed, there are many mutually exclusive and contradictory religions out there. This is often described as the "avoiding the wrong hell" problem. If a person is a follower of one religion, he may end up in another religion's version of hell.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Even if we assume that there's a God, that doesn't imply that there's one unique God. Which should we believe in? If we believe in all of them, how will we decide which commandments to follow?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Secondly, the statement that "If you believe in God and turn out to be incorrect, you have lost nothing" is not true. Suppose you're believing in the wrong God -- the true God might punish you for your foolishness. Consider also the deaths that have resulted from people rejecting medicine in favor of prayer.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Another flaw in the argument is that it is based on the assumption that the two possibilities are equally likely -- or at least, that they are of comparable likelihood. If, in fact, the possibility of there being a God is close to zero, the argument becomes much less persuasive. So sadly the argument is only likely to convince those who believe already.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also, many feel that for intellectually honest people, belief is based on evidence, with some amount of intuition. It is not a matter of will or cost-benefit analysis.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Formally speaking, the argument consists of four statements:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1. One does not know whether God exists.

 

 

 

2. Not believing in God is bad for one's eternal soul if God does exist.

 

 

 

3. Believing in God is of no consequence if God does not exist.

 

 

 

4. Therefore it is in one's interest to believe in God.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There are two approaches to the argument. The first is to view Statement 1 as an assumption, and Statement 2 as a consequence of it. The problem is that there's really no way to arrive at Statement 2 from Statement 1 via simple logical inference. The statements just don't follow on from each other.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The alternative approach is to claim that Statements 1 and 2 are both assumptions. The problem with this is that Statement 2 is then basically an assumption which states the Christian position, and only a Christian will agree with that assumption. The argument thus collapses to "If you are a Christian, it is in your interests to believe in God" -- a rather vacuous tautology, and not the way Pascal intended the argument to be viewed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also, if we don't even know that God exists, why should we take Statement 2 over some similar assumption? Isn't it just as likely that God would be angry at people who chose to believe for personal gain? If God is omniscient, he will certainly know who really believes and who believes as a wager. He will spurn the latter... assuming he actually cares at all whether people truly believe in him.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Some have suggested that the person who chooses to believe based on Pascal's Wager, can then somehow make the transition to truly believing. Unfortunately, most atheists don't find it possible to make that leap.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In addition, this hypothetical God may require more than simple belief; almost all Christians believe that the Christian God requires an element of trust and obedience from his followers. That destroys the assertion that if you believe but are wrong, you lose nothing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Finally, if this God is a fair and just God, surely he will judge people on their actions in life, not on whether they happen to believe in him. A God who sends good and kind people to hell is not one most atheists would be prepared to consider worshipping.

[Fiery_Gyr]

estrip98"]Yes I do. Even if youre one of the people who dont believe in him I think you should. If you do and he isnt real, what have you lost? If you do and he is real then youve earned eternal life in Heaven.

 

 

 

We have a word for that: "Naive"

 

 

 

And what if you accidently did something wrong? You're going to a place where it is very hot 8)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Beside that, I think it's getting very very very crowdy in heaven and hell. It's impossible that such a place could ever exist. :shock:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There's another issue that doesnt fit in christianity and islam: dinosaurs! These creatures lived millions of years ago and according to "the books" is only a few thousand years old. You cannot say they never existed, because we found enough dinosaurbones for prayer lvl 36590387! :shock:

 

 

 

This isnt meant cynical, but someone has a theory about that as well? >.<

[Barihawk]

 

Death by Pod:And as for the pagan thing, the general term refers to non-big 3 religions, but specifically the worship of nature. I was so happy to date a girl from the old country, but she failed to tell me she worshiped the Celtic nature spirits in addition to God...yeah, that did'nt last long.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I LOVE it when guys run away from me when I tell them I'm a pagan. Telling them I'll put an evil spell on them is even better :lol:

 

 

 

Most of them don't run away, but the gaze in their eyes is funny enough for me ^^

 

 

 

I like it best when they told me they like me, their reaction is soooooo nice to see :wink:

 

 

 

Seriously, they call themselves MEN, omg they are really losers. xD

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Back on-topic,

 

 

 

I kind of understand your situation though, I won't be able to live with a christian or muslim guy as well... :wink:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well, she never told me. She invited me to a tree grafting. I thought it would be a nice date, but she wanted me to wear a tux. I asked why and she said it was a wedding? Yeah, explanation and breakup soon followed.

[terley]

answer to title - no..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

theres no evidence, if u put it down to faith your just gullable.. the bible talks of Adam and Eve yet we've got mountains of evidence that we evolved from apes.. you could jst say it's a fictional story.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If I knew God was real, still wouldn't live by religion.. It only ends badly, every war is a result of someones religious beliefs..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

just ... no... theres nofin good about religion... :?

[MyPurpleCrayon]

every war is a result of someones religious beliefs..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This statement is entirely inaccurate.

[Greatsilverwyrm]

 

every war is a result of someones religious beliefs..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This statement is entirely inaccurate.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Even if it was true, the argument is still asinine.. If it wasn't religion, it would be something different.

[terley]

well obviously not 'every' war. certainly most, which are the several ones generally everyone knows about, take whats happening atm... ww1/2, Vietnam etc..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

would it help if I just said, IMO religion seems to be behind a lot of pain and misery..

[Blue-To-Die]

Religion is so F'd up. How many different versions of god are there? Most killing others who believe in a different version.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's my way or the highway. That's what its all about. Damn, I hate religion.

[Greatsilverwyrm]

well obviously not 'every' war. certainly most, which are the several ones generally everyone knows about, take whats happening atm... ww1/2, Vietnam etc..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

would it help if I just said, IMO religion seems to be behind a lot of pain and misery..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Like I said, it's not religion. Religion is just a front for people's baser views and philosophies. It's not religion they're fighting over, it's their view. So, if there were no religions, we'd still be fighting over our different views.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Religion is so F'd up. How many different versions of god are there? Most killing others who believe in a different version.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's my way or the highway. That's what its all about. Damn, I hate religion.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That is the single most narrow-minded view of religion I have ever heard.

 

 

 

You're talking about religious extremism, which is far from the majority of religious populations.

[haihong]

... God is not true... y cuz there are many reasons

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

firstly.... there are so many people in the world n all from different races... but thebible say taht God created adam n eve first... Den u tink adam and eve can give birth to so many ppl meh? he can give birth to different races ar? IF IT IS TRUE DEN A SAME RACES CAN PRODUCE A DIFFERENT RACE BABY...BUT THIS IS NOT TRUE...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Moreover True to some ppl God exists....but it is now is yr faith tell u that God exists... but in reality... i stress reality... did u see God? some may say God hints u n cannot be show or dunno wad crap la...But ... May i ask who write the bible..fro the bible jesus go alot of places to help ppl... but is there really someone who see all his works everwhere!!! u say his diciples who wrote it... but after jesus died they are all dispersed.. who is the one who can combine all these deed jesus done and make it intio bible?If it is the God words, den y ppl are making new bible and upgrading the meanings,,, apparently some words which are changed may change the meaning of the whole sentence... u no?if it is God words den is is a kind of disrespect liao... cuz it should be God who wrote the book and not a human lol... is there true in it?... if it is a human who wrote teh bible den we are listening to human advice... lol...haha... and not God advice... the person who wrote the bible muz have seen all the good deed of jesus la but in the bible there is no such person...so who really wrote the bible?IT is a person who wrote it..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

that was like 2000 years ago where jesus come to earth

 

 

 

rmb last time they got pen to write book ar? they using wad so call brush nia..

 

 

 

no paper somemore...write on bamboo la... N how u no it is true tat jesus rise from the dead... Did u see it? it was written 2000 years ago...i stress is 2000 years ago... 2000 years ago still persists ar?Logicall speaking the thing more or less got change leh..u check the first bible n the new bible

 

 

 

i bet there is different... Even i bet u dunno yr 1 st ancestors name lor... den how u no there is god when u cant even no yr first ancestor name.. Somemore if There IS A GOD DEN Y THERE IS SO MUCH SUFFERING IN THE WOLRD!WAD BIRD FLU SARS TSUNAMI>>>SOME MAY SAY IS THE PUNISHMENT OF OUR SINS!>>>But for GODNESS SAKE.... is it true:?U say u ll go heaven if u died if u belioeve in christ.. but u died before... if u didnt die before how u no u go to heaven...UNless u can ask the DEAD TO WAKE UP N TELL U LA>>>WHICH IS LAME...ALl these are doubts but that doesnt show that god doesnt exist... which is true.... FOR WAD I BELIEVE Why CARE SO MUCH THING>>> LIFE Is SO SHORT.... if u cant do this or do tat u better go die fast... as u believe in yr God when u died u can go heaven... so why u dun kill yr own baby so to let him have a happy day living wif God... den the whole world population get killed laso to enjoy their life with God.. LAme..

 

 

 

THere is no fact stating thus is yr belief but i dunno y ppl care so much... Maybe is the fact tat u guys ppl beleive in enternity life which u guys care so much... den if i say i can give u eternity life when u died u should pray me....lol...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

ALAS>>> anyway it juz my opinion... as i bleieve in living my life better without having any religious affecting my life.... i willing to accept anyone who want to debate oin this topic

[rocketman089]

Haihong, I have to give it to you, you put up one hell of a post. You're the first person that ever made me go "hey, I need some aspirin, or at least a hammerblow to the face".

[Blue-To-Die]

Will somebody please help haihong?? I swear...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

People will do anything to make others believe in 'what they think' because it's "true" or whatever. Just last year I had a chinese exchange student stay at my house for a month and my own father was shoving the "christian way" down his throat. Totally not taking in foreign customs and ways. It's people like this that should be shot.

[MyPurpleCrayon]

Haihong, I have to give it to you, you put up one hell of a post. You're the first person that ever made me go "hey, I need some aspirin, or at least a hammerblow to the face".

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hahahahahahha.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I <3 you. :P :D

[Barihawk]

Haihong...that was an incredibly mature argument. However, you knocked it down 300 IQ levels with the misuse of the English language. We are now all dumber for reading it. You are awarded no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

[MyPurpleCrayon]

WAD BIRD FLU SARS TSUNAMI

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

FOR WAD I BELIEVE Why CARE SO MUCH THING

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

All ur base, r belong to us.

[Death_By_Pod]

 

 

 

What I'm just wondering is how many fossils we uncover that are definitely intermediate species as compared to fossils that are extremely similar to species that exist at the present?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not sure I understand you here. Are you saying that in saying nothing once existed in my premise I'm assuming God exists?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Maybe faith isn't a good scientific excuse :P or a bad proof. But it definitely has its advantages.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I donÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t know, it depends on how you define intermediate. In my definition there are 6.5 billion intermediate Homo sapiens living among the world now.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I was trying to say is, you canÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t state a premise about whatÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s going on outside the universe since there is no way to validate it or infer it. Your conclusion isnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t valid if the premise isnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t assumed true. It isnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t assumed there was nothing before the big bang; anything could have happened we just canÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t see it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah it has its advantages if youÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢re applying it to a supernatural idea, not evolution.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

About your expiriments. While they do show extraordinary adaptation, they do not fulfill the "survival of the fittest" aspect. The bird flu has not died out, it has just expanded to feed on humans after a mutation. Its microevolution (which is scientifically still held as a separate theorum than macro, and more believable in my eyes) which explains why africans are black, euros are white, and our eyes and hair colors, etc. Adaption is completely different than evolution. The bird flu is still the bird flu, it has just adapted to add a new host to its repetois. Thanks for the information, I respect your opinion now and I pray that you will respect mine.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Survival of the fittest is just a generic term, the virus is creating new opportunities to increase the number of hosts it infects and hence increase its survivability. If you had a bird with a very long beak so it can reach deep inside a flower to get nectar, then you have a bird with a small sharp beak to catch small animals, you wouldnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t automatically say they are the same species. They clearly have different methods of providing sustenance, which impacts on other areas of how the bird lives and breeds creating even more disparity between the two birds to the point where you might not call them the same bird.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Evolution isnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t separated by micro and macro, it is the same theorem. Adaptation = microevolution = macroevolution, your saying the same thing yourself. I would respect your opinion if it wasnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t so blatant the opinion was founded on ignorance of what evolution is and means. If macroevolution didnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t exist then how come chickens have left over genetic material of their ancestors (alligator type creatures)? http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=000E9965-99A6-13FB-99A683414B7F0000 ItÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s not about disrespect, its about correcting your misconceptions.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, because me saying "I am a Christian" is just as bad as saying "I am going to blow your face off with the gun that I have in my pocket". :roll:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

YouÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢re the one who said I'm impeding on free speech (when I wanted stricter punishment for communicating falsehoods in science), now you demonstrate there are times when itÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s practical to impede on free speech. Why did you create the original post in the first place?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm still seeing Microevolution in textbooks. I mean, oh noes...the creationists are writing our textbooks now!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sure these are real, defined terms but they have been high jacked by creationists to claim that macroevolution doesn't exist; which is completely false. How do we get macroevolution without having to resort on a base of microevolution? ItÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s like having a head without a neck; Microevolution sprouts the head of macroevolution in a sense.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The definitions of macro and microevolution were created in a time when genetics didnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t exist which made it hard to understand how a banana was related to a human when looking at fossils.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/ - a well maintained collection of articles which explain and demonstrate macroevolution with proper citation. I have yet to see something as comprehensive as this article.

[MyPurpleCrayon]

YouÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢re the one who said I'm impeding on free speech (when I wanted stricter punishment for communicating falsehoods in science), now you demonstrate there are times when itÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s practical to impede on free speech. Why did you create the original post in the first place?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No no no no.... That is the complete wrong interpratation of my post, which was a reply to yours BtW.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Misscommunication FtW.

[whoami]

I'm an atheist myself, so i don't believe in "God" because science can't prove it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I believe that we came from monkeys :oops:

 

 

 

and the world began as space dust because science says so..

[insane]

Will somebody please help haihong?? I swear...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

People will do anything to make others believe in 'what they think' because it's "true" or whatever. Just last year I had a chinese exchange student stay at my house for a month and my own father was shoving the "christian way" down his throat. Totally not taking in foreign customs and ways. It's people like this that should be shot.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Principle vs. application. Just because religious people are bad doesn't mean religion is bad (when a plane crashes you don't blame aerodynamics, do you?). Also, this is completely irrelevent to God's existence.

[Death_By_Pod]

 

 

 

No no no no.... That is the complete wrong interpratation of my post, which was a reply to yours BtW.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Misscommunication FtW.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now I'm just lost. Nonetheless what we were talking about really doesnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t have much to do with the topic specifically.