Do YOU believe in God?

[Greatsilverwyrm]

 

 

 

 

 

There are some positive aspects of religion though, so it still has some purpose.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You conveniently left out the part of religion making better people, something science and your petty insults could and will never do.

Except you don't NEED religion to be a good person, have morals and make people a better person.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I didn't say that you needed it; I just said that science and insults wouldn't.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Science tends to make people more intelligent. More intelligent people tend to be more aware of the world around them, and more considerate; i.e. good.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Science tends to make people more intelligent. More intelligent people tend to think they're better than those around them, which makes them inconsiderate, i.e. bad.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Intelligent people who act arrogant were arseholes to begin with, in which case religion wouldn't help 'em out either.

[Astralinre]

 

 

 

 

 

 

There are some positive aspects of religion though, so it still has some purpose.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You conveniently left out the part of religion making better people, something science and your petty insults could and will never do.

Except you don't NEED religion to be a good person, have morals and make people a better person.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I didn't say that you needed it; I just said that science and insults wouldn't.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Science tends to make people more intelligent. More intelligent people tend to be more aware of the world around them, and more considerate; i.e. good.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Science tends to make people more intelligent. More intelligent people tend to think they're better than those around them, which makes them inconsiderate, i.e. bad.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Intelligent people who act arrogant were arseholes to begin with, in which case religion wouldn't help 'em out either.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I can say from personal experience with myself and many people I've known that Christ can make even the most arrogant arseholes humble and considerate.

[Greatsilverwyrm]

Fair enough. Let me say though, Magical Trevor would be ashamed of you.

[Anesthesia]

Religion can also turn people into arrogant arseholes. So can money. So can a good hairstyle. Whoop dee doo.

[Yoshi161]

I don't believe in god. If there was one and a heaven and hell, i'd rather die and go to hell than go to heaven with a god that is evil...And anyway, my dad is a pastor, i've been in church 16 years and I have no proof a God exsist.

[insane]

 

 

 

 

Happiness != goodness. I'll bet Hitler was really happy after the first millionth Jew was murdered.

That may very well be your opinion, but it isn't mine. There is no such thing as good people, there are just people who like to think of themselves as better than others. People such as you and me. As for the Hitler comment, if fits in pretty well considering a lot of people here claim to be pro-life, so I won't dismiss it as nonsense (w00t, flamebait!).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well your ethical views are consistent with your metaphysical views, I'll give you that :P. Though I disagree with subjectivism and reductionism, I won't go into it - that's another argument for another time.

[Astralinre]

Fair enough. Let me say though, Magical Trevor would be ashamed of you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Shhh... Trev doesn't have to know anything about this. :wink:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Religion can also turn people into arrogant arseholes. So can money. So can a good hairstyle. Whoop dee doo.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yup, in other words, people are naturally arrogant and will look for any justification for their pride, no matter how ridiculous it is.

[MyPurpleCrayon]

 

 

 

 

Happiness != goodness. I'll bet Hitler was really happy after the first millionth Jew was murdered.

That may very well be your opinion, but it isn't mine. There is no such thing as good people, there are just people who like to think of themselves as better than others. People such as you and me. As for the Hitler comment, if fits in pretty well considering a lot of people here claim to be pro-life, so I won't dismiss it as nonsense (w00t, flamebait!).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I guess that you mean insulting people who are trying to make a difference is how you enjoy not being a good person?

Yes, that's the gist of it. I don't want the difference most Christians do.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So what are you basing this on, moral relativism?

 

 

 

Lmao, what a horribly ridiculous philosophy. :roll:

[Death_By_Pod]

 

 

 

You conveniently left out the part of religion making better people, something science and your petty insults could and will never do.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So there arenÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t such secular things as psychologists and topic specific (e.g. marriage) counseling? Secular society does a better job in this area; I donÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t see your point.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Happiness != goodness. I'll bet Hitler was really happy after the first millionth Jew was murdered.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Define goodness

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

However, an atheist cannot ever be a good person if his beliefs are true. Without an eternal, external standard (God) that determines true good and evil, no person can be truly good. There is no real morality, only made-up, subjective rules. In a materialist worldview, who's to say that feeding the homeless is any better than slaughtering and eating them? Both are simply forms of matter and energy moving around; there's no real difference between good and evil.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Conclusion: It is inconsistant for an atheist to claim to be a good person.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Define Good and Evil

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Science tends to make people more intelligent. More intelligent people tend to think they're better than those around them, which makes them inconsiderate, i.e. bad.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

ThatÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s a pretty big call, how about those people who think they are holier then thou and as a result of their holiness think they are better then you? It exists everywhere there is some sort of formalised system (a measurement of intelligence or how close to god you are); some people want to feel like they are at the top no matter what. Thinking you are better then someone else due to your intelligence is ignorance plain and simple.

[dwarfie76]

However, an atheist cannot ever be a good person if his beliefs are true. Without an eternal, external standard (God) that determines true good and evil, no person can be truly good. There is no real morality, only made-up, subjective rules. In a materialist worldview, who's to say that feeding the homeless is any better than slaughtering and eating them? Both are simply forms of matter and energy moving around; there's no real difference between good and evil.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Conclusion: It is inconsistant for an atheist to claim to be a good person.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But in terms of made up lists of rules, what makes say the ten commandments and better than say the universal declaration of human rights?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There are plenty of people who subscribe to a utilitarian viewpoint that holds that a definitive set of ethics can indeed be drawn purely from a secular standpoint, myself included. However there is also nothing stopping an atheist from following all the practical teachings of christianity. Would they not then be a 'good' person?

[gonpost]

Edit: Decided to leave that out...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I believe in everything, and I believe in nothing. Keep your mind open...that is the key. Do not adopt a system of beliefs...take them all in...think about each one...be open to any possibility.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Anywho...read this...just tell me what you think of it. I won't tell you where it's from or who wrote it...and this is only part, there's a lot more but it'd be too dang long.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Question: What are the characteristics of being human?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It is impossible to create an accurately prioritized list of characteristics because the order would depend on personal preference. Should it be prioritized in order of ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¢â¬ÅimportanceÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬ÃâÃ

[insane]

 

 

 

 

You conveniently left out the part of religion making better people, something science and your petty insults could and will never do.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So there arenÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t such secular things as psychologists and topic specific (e.g. marriage) counseling? Secular society does a better job in this area; I donÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t see your point.

 

 

 

Again, I never said that religion was the only way to better yourself. Whether or not secular society does a better job is up to you, I guess.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Define goodness

 

 

 

Though I disagree with subjectivism and reductionism, I won't go into it - that's another argument for another time.

[Guest GhostRanger]

So there arenÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t such secular things as psychologists and topic specific (e.g. marriage) counseling? Secular society does a better job in this area; I donÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t see your point.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't think that's true at all.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1) "Better" is so subjective.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2) My father is a marriage counselor and was a minister for twenty years. Would being secular make him better? I have some books and papers for you to read if you try and seriously defend that.

[____]

Define Good and Evil

 

 

 

Don't exactly have to, since I'm sure we're all aware that good/evil doesn't actually exist? Or are some of us too arrogant to accept that good/evil is just an excuse to look down on people who don't follow your set of rules that you chose to live by.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nature has no concept of either. We made it, we seem to live by it, and somehow many of us seem to think we have the right the claim 'betterness' over others because of it. Rather sad really, we all have different beliefs, and we know damn well that they don't match up.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

IMO, if people want to believe that some divine being created the world and whatnot - good for them. If others want to believe that the mighty Okak is our true origin, go for it. And for me, I just don't want to hear that anyone is made a 'better' person because of what they believe in.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Because when you start preaching that you are (not the irony here) you have crossed into that land of being inconsiderate of other people and their beliefs, which isn't exactly good - no matter what you think.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Any questions as to how I came to that conclusion?

[Greatsilverwyrm]

The problem with these debates is that we quickly get into even more existential debates. Namely "why are we here" ?

[Pyro]

 

 

 

So what are you basing this on, moral relativism?

 

 

 

Lmao, what a horribly ridiculous philosophy. :roll:

I refuse to "base" my opinions on anything. The need to have others form a system of opinions for you is for lesser individuals. I have presented my opinions and if they happen to be the same as systems of opinions that have already been labeled, so be it. But yes, moral relativism is obviously one of few universal truths. As for your last comment, I find this new record-low level of debate amusing.

[SickTwisted]

The problem with these debates is that we quickly get into even more existential debates. Namely "why are we here" ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thats just the thing. Call me crazy but I have always believed that: There is a 'higher up' if thats what you want to call it, but I believe that it is not anything close to what people say it is. What proof do people have that god is real? Woopdidoo we got a bunch of books that say he is real. Since when did people believe everything they read in a book. I believe that "God" was created to control our society and keep the world from going into a riot of people asking themselves this question: " How can we just appear here? If there is a god, then how did HE get here." Thats something that I believe is way above our comprehension and that even if we did know the truth it would be too odd to take in all at once.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In other words. I think God is a waste of time and was only created to keep our society under control. I myself do not believe in god. But I do believe that there is something out there, that is bigger than us humans and no one has any clue what it might be. That thought of that makes me shudder.

[HugATree]

Gyr, you are looking at the far extreme parts of religion. Today, in this world, most religious people are much better off morally than non-religious.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Odd then that the religious states in America have higher rates of divorce, teen pregnancy, abortion and violence. Yea, they sure are better off.

[HugATree]

 

 

 

However, an atheist cannot ever be a good person if his beliefs are true. Without an eternal, external standard (God) that determines true good and evil, no person can be truly good. There is no real morality, only made-up, subjective rules. In a materialist worldview, who's to say that feeding the homeless is any better than slaughtering and eating them? Both are simply forms of matter and energy moving around; there's no real difference between good and evil.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Conclusion: It is inconsistant for an atheist to claim to be a good person.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Complete rubbish, good is a synonym for beneficial.

[Mercifull]

May i reccomend to both theists and atheists alike a book by Dr Michael Shermer called The Science of Good and Evil: Why People Cheat, Gossip, Care, Share, and Follow the Golden Rule. To put it in a short sentance its basically about the evolutionary origins of morality and how to be good without God. Go into it thinking what you want but you certainly wont come out of it thinking that the only way to be a better person is through God.

[Evilperson]

Okay, to lighten the mood, I want someone to answer this question:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If there was a god, and Lucifer, and Heaven and Hell, WHY would you be PUNISHED for not believing in god? Wouldn't you go to hell, and become friends with the devil or something? Aren't they mortal enemies?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Arriving soul: Aww Sh*t I'm in hell

 

 

 

Satan: You don't believe in god?

 

 

 

Arriving soul: Nah, looks like a lifetime of hellfire and damnation for me. . .

 

 

 

Satan: Nah I hate god too! Up top!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*Loud Slap*

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now they are best friends

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The end.

[____]

Now that's perhaps the most amusing thing I've read in regards to heaven/hell in a long time.

[Mementh]

Okay, to lighten the mood, I want someone to answer this question:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If there was a god, and Lucifer, and Heaven and Hell, WHY would you be PUNISHED for not believing in god? Wouldn't you go to hell, and become friends with the devil or something? Aren't they mortal enemies?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Arriving soul: Aww Sh*t I'm in hell

 

 

 

Satan: You don't believe in god?

 

 

 

Arriving soul: Nah, looks like a lifetime of hellfire and damnation for me. . .

 

 

 

Satan: Nah I hate god too! Up top!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*Loud Slap*

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now they are best friends

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The end.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

nah.. you just need to be a moral person IMHO...

[Fiery_Gyr]

Okay, to lighten the mood, I want someone to answer this question:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If there was a god, and Lucifer, and Heaven and Hell, WHY would you be PUNISHED for not believing in god? Wouldn't you go to hell, and become friends with the devil or something? Aren't they mortal enemies?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Arriving soul: Aww Sh*t I'm in hell

 

 

 

Satan: You don't believe in god?

 

 

 

Arriving soul: Nah, looks like a lifetime of hellfire and damnation for me. . .

 

 

 

Satan: Nah I hate god too! Up top!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*Loud Slap*

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now they are best friends

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The end.

 

 

 

You are sooooooo right!

 

 

 

The whole heaven/hell thing just can't be true, cuz if it was, such a thing would happen! :wink:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

To Insane:

 

 

 

I'm not gonna quote all your posts but let me tell you this: you really honor your name ^^

[insane]

I'm not gonna quote all your posts

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's probably because you have nothing to say to them. If I "honour my name", then perhaps you could prove this, by quoting my posts.