Macroers and Economy

[Lep]

After Pure Essence was made, look how expensive and hard getting Pure Essence is now.

 

 

 

A little thought: Are we sure we want to get rid of macroers? If we do, Merchanters and Stakers will be the ones who can really afford anything. :?

[mrmyk]

macroers = bad

 

 

 

end of story :?

 

 

 

 

 

this game isn't meant to be a walk in the park (well some could argue otherwise) with everyone just quickly logging onto forums and bang! 100k pure ess for 100each...

 

 

 

yes it has made pure ess harder to get but that means others can try mining for THEMSELVES instead of just buying O:)

[Flame_guy3]

Meh you'll see yew prices skyrocket and pure ess prices spiral out of control... Its a good thing because then you can afford stuff. Get used to it people there are always cheaters in life. Pfft no point complaining.

[Ts_Stormrage]

Ok, this obviously requires my analysis once more for the ignorant

 

 

 

WARNING: Long read ahead

 

 

 

The one thing Macro-ers do, is put more materials in the economy:

 

Coals, Yew logs, Essence (before the update then), Flax, you name it.

 

 

 

Why? To sell for gp, and having that gp sold for real money.

 

 

 

What if we take the Macro-ers out of the equation? Will prices soar into the unaffordable? I highly doubt it, and here's why:

 

 

 

At any given time, a certain ammount of a product (lets use the old situation essence, for example) is bring produced, and a certain ammount of that is used (for runecrafting obviously).

 

 

 

Now, if all of a sudden, a large portion of that product is suddenly taken away, taking into account supply and demand, the prices will go up. But then what?

 

 

 

Luckily, supplies here in RuneScape are endless (unlike, say, oil is in this world) so there will never be an absolute shortage of it. And with rising prices, more and more people will see it as a good way of making money, because now they can sell for much higher.

 

 

 

The result would be that the prices will stabalize, but at higher price. No harm in that is there? It will just cause prices of runes to go up as well. And with that, more people will go runecrafting, just to gain a piece of the action.

 

 

 

With all the GP flowing into the RS economy every day, I doubt this will be much of a problem. Just that you will have more GP to buy more expensive Essence with.

 

Its like a loaf of bread now costs you 50 cents, which isnt much at all. Back in the days, a loaf costs maybe 1 cent, again, not much at all to anyone. The loaf of bread stays the same in value, but the worth of your money drops.

 

 

 

This is also not a problem up to a point where some people are rather payed with other items then the GP. in real life this is where governments step in and re-valuate the worth of their currency.

 

 

 

In the end, who will lose?

 

The fletchers (basicly anyone) who buy their supplies. So you need to do a little work yourself... So what..?

 

 

 

 

 

This did gave me an idea however. Something like forming a Consortion.

 

What if you formed a very large group of miners who camped as long as possible at every Coal spawn available. And never sold it (using is ofcourse allowed, as long as the market of coals will dry out).

 

 

 

This way you could drive up the prices of Coal to some extent, then selling them in small ammounts for huge profits.

[Made0f12une]

Ok, this obviously requires my analysis once more for the ignorant

 

 

 

WARNING: Long read ahead

 

 

 

The one thing Macro-ers do, is put more materials in the economy:

 

Coals, Yew logs, Essence (before the update then), Flax, you name it.

 

 

 

Why? To sell for gp, and having that gp sold for real money.

 

 

 

What if we take the Macro-ers out of the equation? Will prices soar into the unaffordable? I highly doubt it, and here's why:

 

 

 

At any given time, a certain ammount of a product (lets use the old situation essence, for example) is bring produced, and a certain ammount of that is used (for runecrafting obviously).

 

 

 

Now, if all of a sudden, a large portion of that product is suddenly taken away, taking into account supply and demand, the prices will go up. But then what?

 

 

 

Luckily, supplies here in RuneScape are endless (unlike, say, oil is in this world) so there will never be an absolute shortage of it. And with rising prices, more and more people will see it as a good way of making money, because now they can sell for much higher.

 

 

 

The result would be that the prices will stabalize, but at higher price. No harm in that is there? It will just cause prices of runes to go up as well. And with that, more people will go runecrafting, just to gain a piece of the action.

 

 

 

With all the GP flowing into the RS economy every day, I doubt this will be much of a problem. Just that you will have more GP to buy more expensive Essence with.

 

Its like a loaf of bread now costs you 50 cents, which isnt much at all. Back in the days, a loaf costs maybe 1 cent, again, not much at all to anyone. The loaf of bread stays the same in value, but the worth of your money drops.

 

 

 

This is also not a problem up to a point where some people are rather payed with other items then the GP. in real life this is where governments step in and re-valuate the worth of their currency.

 

 

 

In the end, who will lose?

 

The fletchers (basicly anyone) who buy their supplies. So you need to do a little work yourself... So what..?

 

 

 

 

 

This did gave me an idea however. Something like forming a Consortion.

 

What if you formed a very large group of miners who camped as long as possible at every Coal spawn available. And never sold it (using is ofcourse allowed, as long as the market of coals will dry out).

 

 

 

This way you could drive up the prices of Coal to some extent, then selling them in small ammounts for huge profits.

 

 

 

You said what I was going to say in more words. Good job nonetheless

 

 

 

You had a good idea boycotting the coal. I think it would be impossiable. Say theres what maybe 200+ coal spawns in runescape. Thats 200 people for our 132 worlds. Thats 26,400 poeple mining coal in every world in every spawn. Now, to completely boycott the system we'd have 26,400 people mining coal for 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. We could do it, but the chances of it happening. Extremely UNLIKELY

[Ts_Stormrage]

but not impossible.

 

 

 

And you dont need to be at EVERY spawn. Just the good ones (aka own all the coal trucks and all the mining guilds)

 

 

 

and hog all the coal.

[b0nes37]

yep, impossible

[Notorious_Ice]

Well Made0f12une your theory is a well thaught one, but you forgot about a couple things.

 

 

 

The runescape economy is at a different level to the economy irl. Atm runescape money isnt worth enough. In classic money was harder to get, thus worth more. But in rs2 money is much easier to get. People are spending millions and millions at a time and thinking nothing of it.

 

 

 

Now we all know about the huge gap between the rich and poor, so big its rediculous. We have the rares to thank for this. They are growing in price quickly, and soon there won't be enough money to pay for them, because it isn't worth enough. This gap is getting bigger and bigger every week. Eventually anyone without a rare, will not be able to afford a rare without paying in billions of gp worth of items which will be near impossible.

 

 

 

 

 

Autoers mine/cut etc much more than legit players do.

 

So even if autoers are stopped, and legit people mine or whatever to make up for them, it still will be nowhere near the amount autoers put into the economy. So again, raw materials will become cheaper, and money will become worth more.

[Kashi]

You could still macro pure ess ...

 

 

 

Getting your mining to 30 would take maybe two hours, and then a $5 membership. If I'm making hundreds of dollars a month selling GP, that $10-15 a month for my macro accounts is like a drop in the bucket.

[iwldwonu]

well if the prices of runes get higher than in the shops evry 1 will make them theirselves or buy them in the shops...

 

 

 

and if the runescape currency gets worth nothing the newbies find it harder and harder to climb up to the level of the rich guys

 

knowing jagex they will try to fix this problem by resetting the values of the rs gp then people like with the euro will think they have less money and keep asking high prices witch results in the same untill more and more people will lose their items with staking scamming and pking and evrything gets into the hands of a very rich elite group and there will be nothing left for evry 1 this is where all prices i think will go down agean and people will start over and make their own stuff untill they get to buying it and it all starts over....

 

this all looks like an rs version of the verelendungs theorie of karl marx...

 

 

 

i dont know if this makes sense at all to u but it was a nice try :P

[Biabf]

I want less macroers but I would never want NO macroers. SImply for the reasons above.

[nutter1988]

U were saying about tryin to dry out the coal market. U'd prob need bout 10-20k ppl mining coal and the mining guild, thats the main source of coal. Thats about 10-20 ppl at each world (im allowing for ppl sleeping and stuff, so dont critasie bout the numbers not adding up). But more importantly than this u need alot of very rich ppl buying loads and loads of coal for 200 gp ea prob. Then hold on for a few weeks, and prob a few billion coal are owned between the group all sell for a set amount, mayb 350gp ea, as long as every1 refuses to sell for less than the set amount, u should have to leak it back into the market slowly! Would require bout the 10k richest ppl in rs tho. And thousands of macros as well lol as the cud mine without sleep, and just mine untill the account was banned, so the coal wudnt actually b goin back into the market!

 

 

 

However this would require alot of effert, and wud b hard to pull off. Id b pretty sure that if the top 100 richest ppl, decided to all spend all of their money buyin coal at 150-200 gp each, they could make enough of a dint in the market to increase the price of coal. once the forums start geting flooded wit 'selling 100k coal 300 gp ea' most other ppl selling coal will raise the price that they were selling for, and the rich ppl, could pretty much time their money by 1.5!!! Which is a massive increase!

[Jack12338]

I know this is completely random, and offtopic, well sorta', but runescape should make the wild everywhere, and things wouldn't respawn, for a whole week. It'd be an awesome rush to get to the resources and the like.

 

Wouldn't that be pretty interesting?

[n64jive]

After Pure Essence was made, look how expensive and hard getting Pure Essence is now.

 

 

 

A little thought: Are we sure we want to get rid of macroers? If we do, Merchanters and Stakers will be the ones who can really afford anything. :?

 

 

 

you're going with the greatest good policy here, but you're not using it correctly. You think that macroer's might be alright because they bring many resources into the game which make them cheaper for everyone.

 

 

 

Who you're forgetting is all the players who play the game legitly, and all the people who spends months getting thousands of an object, only to have the price of that object fall.

 

 

 

Long story short: Macroers are bad for the game.

[Duke_Freedom]

This did gave me an idea however. Something like forming a Consortion...

 

 

 

Not practically possible. Theoretically probably not even very useful.

 

 

 

I can't really follow the logic of people here who are arguing macroing is 'good' because it is supposively 'good' for the economy though.

 

 

 

Aside from the macroers themself, the only ones who are somewhat profitating from the macroing are the rich players. They have an enhanced buying power due to the custom low prices of materials caused by macroing and they profit from the indirect effect that rares raise more due to autoing as well.

 

 

 

The main part of the legit community only suffers the downsides, which are customly low prices on the materials they sell and perhaps also the higher prices on the rares they want to buy.

[icecube]

Take advantage of the so called "high" prices for pure essence. If you truly think they're too high... then why not go mine essence and sell them? Or even merchant them.

 

 

 

Problem solved.

[Canacas]

Lets say you cut yew trees for a living.

 

 

 

Because of macroers the price of the logs are only "210gp" each. So, if you get 2000 logs at a week. You get 420k.

 

 

 

Lets say all the macroers left runescape. Now the prices of yew logs skyrocket to 300gp, and Runes go up "x" number of gp etc etc.

 

 

 

Everything will be more expensive. But hey, you can make much more money than before because now you get 300gp each log instead of 210gp. Thus. You are now "richer". So when you go buy runes, the prices did go up, but so did your income from woodcutting.

 

 

 

So you are basicly not affected by all.

[Ts_Stormrage]

U were saying about tryin to dry out the coal market. U'd prob need bout 10-20k ppl mining coal and the mining guild, thats the main source of coal. Thats about 10-20 ppl at each world (im allowing for ppl sleeping and stuff, so dont critasie bout the numbers not adding up). But more importantly than this u need alot of very rich ppl buying loads and loads of coal for 200 gp ea prob. Then hold on for a few weeks, and prob a few billion coal are owned between the group all sell for a set amount, mayb 350gp ea, as long as every1 refuses to sell for less than the set amount, u should have to leak it back into the market slowly! Would require bout the 10k richest ppl in rs tho. And thousands of macros as well lol as the cud mine without sleep, and just mine untill the account was banned, so the coal wudnt actually b goin back into the market!

 

 

 

However this would require alot of effert, and wud b hard to pull off. Id b pretty sure that if the top 100 richest ppl, decided to all spend all of their money buyin coal at 150-200 gp each, they could make enough of a dint in the market to increase the price of coal. once the forums start geting flooded wit 'selling 100k coal 300 gp ea' most other ppl selling coal will raise the price that they were selling for, and the rich ppl, could pretty much time their money by 1.5!!! Which is a massive increase!

 

 

 

Yup, all that is what I meant;

 

 

 

This did gave me an idea however. Something like forming a Consortion...

 

 

 

Not practically possible. Theoretically probably not even very useful.

 

 

 

He's right tho...

 

 

 

It would require an ammount of people 10 times larger then the largest clans combined...

 

 

 

But just fantasising about how you can actually influence the market, would be nice.

 

 

 

The again, it does not HAVE to be Coal, I'm quite sure that there is some other raw product that you can monopolise a bit easier (Runite ore? Clay for the tablets?)

[Plod2]

The bad things about rising prices in ess, coal etc... is that people much lower level than me can easily make as much money as me. There will be not much point getting high skills for money making (like 91 runecrafting) when you can just make as much by mining essense.

[Ts_Stormrage]

The bad things about rising prices in ess, coal etc... is that people much lower level than me can easily make as much money as me. There will be not much point getting high skills for money making (like 91 runecrafting) when you can just make as much by mining essense.

 

 

 

and then a lot of people would mine essence, and not craft natures...

 

 

 

less natures = less alching happening

 

more essence = cheaper essence

 

 

 

in the end it bounces back a little...

[Kenshinjapan]

Think about it, if there was never anymacroers, then we would never have had to get pure ess...I hate them...

[Duke_Freedom]

It would require an ammount of people 10 times larger then the largest clans combined...

 

 

 

Aside from the fact that trying to monopolize a free market is practically not possible as you simply cannot unite so many people, there is another issue as well... Assuming you could unite all those people, it would probably still not be profitable for the simple reason that you also need to SELL the material stocks you own at some point.

 

 

 

Anyway, manipulating markets solely by just buying up massive amounts of the product for a short period, with the intention to let the prices peak and then quickly unload your stocks, is the most reasonable and practical way to do it. This way you prevent the need of uniting tons of people, although you'll still need a considerable amount of money to try this ofcourse.

 

 

 

However, even if you can pull off the buying part of that succesfully and also succeed in driving up the prices considerably above what you paid, it remains questionable whether you can really profit enough from it for it to be worthwhile. The issue of selling your stocks will remain; as soon as you start your massive selling, prices are likely to collapse quickly.

 

 

 

Furthermore, rares typically increase 15% / month, so in order for it to be interesting it needs to be worth the time and effort you spend in it, plus that it should earn you (a lot) more then what rares typically go up in price. ;)

 

 

 

Simple merchanting combined with just investing your money in rares, however boring it may be (:P), will probably beat these risky money making idea's any time.

 

 

 

Unless ofcourse, you can trigger a doom scenario for the material market that I discussed about with someone else here (will have to read a bit further in that thread): the possibility of permanent increases in the prices of materials.

[XshinobizX]

dudez,online games are fulled with cheaters,macroers,scammers...and bad people...but,the question is,are u a good person?if yes,than think as good :wink:

[computerwiz77]

I know this is completely random, and offtopic, well sorta', but runescape should make the wild everywhere, and things wouldn't respawn, for a whole week. It'd be an awesome rush to get to the resources and the like.

 

Wouldn't that be pretty interesting?

 

 

 

i would get into poistion at the begininig and not log on for that whole week till the exact moment its back...and be selling my cafe food in the middle of the wars!!

[meesa]

but you guys are missing the whole point.

 

 

 

Its been proven that if macroers all go "boom" and leave... the prices for everything would go up... so lets see:

 

 

 

you would make more gp:

 

merchanting

 

cutting yews

 

mining coal

 

making runes

 

 

 

you name it... but, you would also spend more on everything else. Maybe a few 10's of gp difference here and there, but heck, mostly the same.

 

 

 

 

 

I think a big reason jagex is taking offence at macroers is simply that they are making real life money off of a game Jagex made, they own rights to, etc.

 

 

 

It is illegal to sell the runescape client for say, 5 bucks... why? Jagex owns it. If they wanted to sell the client, then ok, they could. $5 up front fee to play the game. One time fee. But others cant do that.

 

 

 

So, can others sell gp for cash? no. Jagex could if they wanted. They truly own all the gp. If you are selling it for real, hard cash, its not only cheating, but also rights-infringement. Plain and simple.

 

 

 

While the macroers may not be a massive problem for runescape gp, how would you like it if somebody sold the drawing you made, or the program you wrote, or the music you record without your permition?

 

 

 

 

 

I think that is the real thing about this. Jagex just says in their rules explanations that its just "to make the game fair". while partly true, its mostly to protect themselves. Its like why stores put in security cameras... they may say its "to keep you safe", but no, the real reason is to catch the theives.

 

 

 

Thats my take on this whole thing. I don't really care if you flame me or not, as has happened before. I fully expect that it will happen again. 'Tis what happens when you get a bunch of 12 and 13 yr old kids together.

 

 

 

 

 

edited for spelling