Should the tradeable items of the past be taken out off rs?

[ctim]

Rares are like the stockmarket. The shares are a investment, you buy them as a investment.

[Captainkidd]

I don't belive easters are 2m I think there like 6m or what ever, just cause you can't get one don't mean every one else who CAN has to suffer cause they got 2147m in the bank and nothing to spend on.

[Adam007]

Thanks zsandmann. I've heard of rares compared to stocks before, but never made the connection with what would happen if rares were actually removed so clearly like that. :)

[MasterSamus]

 

It's still possible to get rares. There is no reason that rares should be taken out of the game.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Easters heal 12 hp.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And where do you get off saying that most people got the money for a rare in a dishonest way? :roll:

 

 

 

hes mad beacause he doesnt have enough money for one so he automatically assumes if he cant get the money no one can without cheating..... :roll:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

so what if i dont have the money, everyone one should be equal, thus everyone should be getting a santa hat,etc

[swampjedi]

Everyone should be equal? What drivel.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sure, make everyone equal. Within two hours you'll again be separated into rich and poor.

[zsandmann]

 

 

It's still possible to get rares. There is no reason that rares should be taken out of the game.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Easters heal 12 hp.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And where do you get off saying that most people got the money for a rare in a dishonest way? :roll:

 

 

 

hes mad beacause he doesnt have enough money for one so he automatically assumes if he cant get the money no one can without cheating..... :roll:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

so what if i dont have the money, everyone one should be equal, thus everyone should be getting a santa hat,etc

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Everyone DID! Four+ years ago when they were dropped.

[swampjedi]

And everyone does NOW. Anyone can earn the cash to get one, given enough time.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you don't have the time, I don't care - this is a game, not life.

[SaidinWoT]

Everyone should be equal, eh? Let's continue under the idea that every single player in the game should be considered equal in the eyes of Jagex. Here are a few scenarios:

 

 

 

Person A joined the game before Person B? Person B hasn't had the same amount of time to train his skills as Person A! Quickly! We must reset all accounts so everyone can be equal!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Person A played the game more intelligently than Person B? Person B is no longer equal! Quickly! We must either bring Person B's stats up to those of Person A, or we must bring Person A down to Person B's status!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Person A got a new item which Person B has yet to procure? No, this cannot be! Person B has yet again been inconvenienced by Person A! Quickly! Eliminate the item Person A received because Person B doesn't have it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Person A has more time to play the game than Person B? How dare he use his extra time as an advantage! Quickly! Limit everyone to the same playing time per day (and force everyone to meet this amount of playing time, or we'll have to shorten it)!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I could continue, but I think I've proven my point: you cannot consider everyone equal. There will always be a player who plays more intelligently, plays for a longer period of time, acheives more than another person. Saying that someone who has invested hours of time and plenty of effort to get an item should not be permitted to, simply because someone who does not wish to put forth this effort, is not an effective way to keep people playing this game.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

To tack on to this point, if we're going after making everyone equal, Jagex would have to eliminate all visible status symbols. Capes of Acheivement? Gone, they prove not everyone's equal. Multiple types of armour? Gone, they prove that not all people can equally afford items. Multiple versions of any single item (pick axes, hatchets, etc.)? Gone, everyone should be on an equal standpoint. The highscores? Gone, they also prove not everyone is equal. If we're going this far, we might as well destroy the ideas of people advancing levels, or even gaining experience, because every single experience point difference is further inequality.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You cannot attack only rares as a status symbol, just because they are the most highly priced type. Every single higher-level variation of an item is a status symbol, and in order to treat everyone equally, one would have to eliminate all status symbols from the game. This is not viably possible, either from an ingame standpoint or a business standpoint. RuneScape is based on variable abilities; people play the game differently, and trying to claim equality in RuneScape would be like trying to claim that everyone is the exact same as each other - it simply is not true.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hurray for long-winded posts :)

[Burzuk]

I think someone should change the title make it "How Rares affect the game"

 

 

 

I think this is what this topic is about.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There are 2 points on how to look at rares. Rares as an investment and rares as an achievement. "Hard-workers" such as myself look at a rare as an achievement something to strive for. Merchanters look at it as something to make money out of. Personally i don't like the merchanters point of view (but i respect it) as it makes hard for me getting the money to buy the rares. If i buy it from a merchanter which is pretty much what will happen if i decide to acquire one i'll buy it 1-2M above market price, but is the sentence true? What makes the prices on Runescape? The players. So i do not understand why some of you keep posting like "a easter is 6M".

 

 

 

Yes you can generally know a price of a rare by seeing how much they are sold at, but if someone decides to buy a lot of rares and selling them "above market price" you really have no choice except buying them from that person at the price they say it for. Oh and i can tell you for sure that Jagex can control the economy if they wanted to.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Zsandmann your missing "the red collars". Investors/Merchanters, those people will not be homeless and the only ones that really would survived the Great Depression (unless they reach the final stage of Merchanting which is Merchanting with rares). The "blue collars" would transform theirselves in "white collars" (as they would have to use the resources they gathered) and the "white collars" would either quit or transform theirselves into "blue collars" to support their high-levels (this applied to Runescape obviously).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If i didn't make it clear i'm for rares staying in the game, especially because i see a rare as something to strive for.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is a little off-topic

 

 

 

Oh, and note how just a little bit of pressure in the right direction can make a dead thread show promise.

 

 

 

This is what made me post just now.

[spatulus13]

 

 

It's still possible to get rares. There is no reason that rares should be taken out of the game.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Easters heal 12 hp.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And where do you get off saying that most people got the money for a rare in a dishonest way? :roll:

 

 

 

hes mad beacause he doesnt have enough money for one so he automatically assumes if he cant get the money no one can without cheating..... :roll:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

so what if i dont have the money, everyone one should be equal, thus everyone should be getting a santa hat,etc

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

the main reason communism doesnt work (in my opinion, others may have thiers but im using mine, no offence to any communists) is that while being equal may appeal to some, it doesnt appeal to others.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

also i think your just doing this because you cant afford a rare, nothing is worse then saving uo for something then losing it because some randm person decides they feel its unfair.

[zsandmann]

Zsandmann your missing "the red collars". Investors/Merchanters, those people will not be homeless and the only ones that really would survived the Great Depression (unless they reach the final stage of Merchanting which is Merchanting with rares). The "blue collars" would transform theirselves in "white collars" (as they would have to use the resources they gathered) and the "white collars" would either quit or transform theirselves into "blue collars" to support their high-levels (this applied to Runescape obviously).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Point taken. There are those people who don't play the game, therefore they are outside the realm of needing or caring about white or blue collars. They find fun in the trade/economic angle of the game. Some people call this "manipulation" but it isn't. Every player has the choice to buy or pass on buying and item. If no one bought from "merchanters" they would have no choice but to lower the prices. So obviously some people do buy. I have no problem with this either. Whatever makes YOU enjoy the game is what matters.

[A107]

me thinks he is just jealous that he will never get one. me personally i like santas better becaus all a party hat is is just virtual paper. lol. i think what he is talking about wildy-wise is the luring part. say everyone should be equal for a sec. there are 1m players in the game. 999,999 of those people have no money. u have 1m. would u give them all part of your money in the name of equality? no u would hoard it because u are like the poor noobs who think everything should be equal, until u are rich and then anyone who thinks it should be equal, u just flame em. my first tip.it post ever. later people, soz bout my grammar.

[Burzuk]

Point taken. There are those people who don't play the game, therefore they are outside the realm of needing or caring about white or blue collars.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well i disagree. Red Collars actually play the game and Red Collars is not a collar, it's a sub collar, as people who merchant do actually level. Any White or Blue Collar can become a red collar at any given point yet Blue Collars don't tend to do so.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

With the rest i agree.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Swordwind is that really necessary? What you said tons of people before yourself already did. You really didn't add anything to the debate. If you agree with the others and have nothing to add up to the debate don't post simply.

[manatea3O5]

Holiday, and other items from the old rsc, prove that people may or may not have experience in the game, but it shows they have been playing longer than most people. or macro... but on the other hand, those old items (such as party hats, halloween masks, etc.) show that the player has massive wealth, whether wealthy with experience, or wealth with money, either way people work for months, maybe even years to buy rares, and i guess the runescape economy wouldnt crash, but it would have to big of an impact for jagex to remove the rare items from runescape...

[Guitarted7]

I think rares are a benefit to runescape, they add goals to new and experience players alike because of their difficulty to attain and admiration it gains. However, it induces scamming, hacking, and most of all...pixel hugging AKA greed. Friendships are made and broken through rares, and many people take their rare so seriously, when they lose it, it is a big blow to their lives, even outside of runescape.

[insane]

No, I don't play anymore, and yes, I'm hoarding three party hats and a Halloween mask in my bank for absolutely no reason other than to appreciate in value.

[A107]

just to clear something up i was talking to the author of this thread

[The_Bacon_Man]

This would totally destroy the economy for the next year or so. Not to mention it would destroy the game experience for many players. It's a nice idea, but in all due respect, it just wouldn't work out.

[WolfhunterXZ]

And people who are wanting to talk about the economy and have replied on this thread about "Rares are what make a major contribution to the Runescape economy!" (Or things along those lines). Or even say that rares are what make our Runescapian economy, these are... FALSE.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Why you may ask? It's really a very simple answer to this.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Economies are NEVER surrounded by certain ITEMS that are in SHORT SUPPLY. Ever. Never.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is simply put really, of all economic infrastructure there are a basis of a few needs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

People, food, shelter, export, import.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now, of course for Runescape, you take out a few things. But the Runescape economy as we know is not a "real" economy. And Rares do not effect it, whatsoever. They're like a rare painting. And if they were removed, then it wouldn't effect the majority of the population. Only the merchenters and those striving to get them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So I'd support a removal or atleast making the remaining rares, untradable (the wearable ones), and as for the edible ones, they can melt or vanish or whatever happens. As for the disk, it can just vanish or something because it's useless, unless they return the bottomless pit.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I probably won't post again in this thread, I may or may not, depending on the first person who decides to react and reply to my message, if it's mostly a flame or countermeasure, forget it. Why? Because really, there isn't a truly good argument versus the basis of economics.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

How do I know all of this finally? I'm taking an economics class online for Running Start. :) mwahaha.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-Wolfy

[swampjedi]

Must not be a very good one, honestly. You're very mistaken.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

RS has an economy with unrealistic underpinnings.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Infinite resources.

 

 

 

No money supply control.

 

 

 

No necessities of living.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The second one is the controlling factor here. Even if there were no rares, there would still be about the same amount of raw gp in the game. Now where would that cash be spent? Everyday items. Rampant inflation would ensue.

[Duke_Freedom]

Economies are NEVER surrounded by certain ITEMS that are in SHORT SUPPLY. Ever. Never.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Why?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is simply put really, of all economic infrastructure there are a basis of a few needs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

People, food, shelter, export, import.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There are no basic needs in RuneScape. You don't need food, water, or a home to keep on living.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But the Runescape economy as we know is not a "real" economy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Why? What do you define as a "real" economy?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And Rares do not effect it, whatsoever. They're like a rare painting. And if they were removed, then it wouldn't effect the majority of the population. Only the merchenters and those striving to get them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Lot's of cash is stored away in people bank accounts with the plan to buy a rare with it at some point... If you remove rares this money HAS to be used for something else. Arguing the removal of rares would have NO influence on the economy is just plain ridiculous.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Because really, there isn't a truly good argument versus the basis of economics.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What exactly is this mysterious 'basis of economics' that seems to be the answer to everything?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

How do I know all of this finally? I'm taking an economics class online for Running Start. :) mwahaha.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sounds like you don't actually "learn" anything there.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

They seem to teach you to state that some things are the "uber truth" without giving you the knowledge and ability to explain why. Economics does not mean that you can just state that some things are true and others are not true without arguing why.

[zubeedoo]

And people who are wanting to talk about the economy and have replied on this thread about "Rares are what make a major contribution to the Runescape economy!" (Or things along those lines). Or even say that rares are what make our Runescapian economy, these are... FALSE.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Why you may ask? It's really a very simple answer to this.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Economies are NEVER surrounded by certain ITEMS that are in SHORT SUPPLY. Ever. Never.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now, of course for Runescape, you take out a few things. But the Runescape economy as we know is not a "real"

 

 

 

-Wolfy

You sort of shot down your own argument here. RS is in no way a "real" economy, at least not one that would follow an economy's standard rules. Why? Because any real life economy is based on needs before wants. People will always buy food, houses etc because we need them, whereas other things will have a much smaller (but much more varied) effect on the economy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In RS the economy is based solely on wants, and it's run mainly by 13 year olds. Not exactly the definition of stable.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now, let's look at what would happen if rares were removed:

 

 

 

It would not be unreasonable to say that rares have a total value of about half of the gp in the game (go read some of duke_freedom's articles if you havn't already). Though it's entirely possible that this is no longer true, you can't argue that rares have a total value that would take a large part of the total gp in runescape to gather up.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now, let's look at some very simple logic:

 

 

 

All the money in rs = all the items in rs

 

 

 

If the amount of money in game rises too much for the number of items, the value of the gp goes down until the problem is solved (it works the other way too)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now, if rares take up half (using loose numbers to make this easier to follow) of the gp in the game,removing them would have the same effect on the gp-item balance as doubling the total amount of gp in the game. What then happens to the value of a coin? It gets chopped in half.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This means removing rares would not only hurt the rare owners, but it would hurt anyone who depends on the npc market to make gp (alchers for example, as well an anyone who sells something that can be bought in an npc store) as well as anyone who has more of their wealth in gp then in items. You now have a large chunk (if not the majority) of people who have little/no gp. The economy has now changed very fast, in a way that affects a massive number of people in a negative way, it's a crash.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now, instead of the wealth being controlled by some people lucky enough to have been here when rares were dropped, it's being controlled by the people who were lucky enough to get dragon drops. Is that really any better? Yes some people would really put the effort in to getting dragon drops, but would that be any different then the people who put all the time and effort into owning rares?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh and taking an economics class IRL means NOTHING in game. That's the rough equivalent of me saying that you do more range damage while running towards someone, and using the fact that I'm taking physics as an argument. RL physics and RS physics are about as different as RL economics and RS economics.

[Duke_Freedom]

In RS the economy is based solely on wants, and it's run mainly by 13 year olds. Not exactly the definition of stable.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry, but when did "the economy is run by a bunch of 13 year olds" become a valid arguement in economic debates?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It was funny when I first saw someone use it (even though the person meant it seriously), but it seems it has now become a widely accepted valid reason why RuneScape's economy is like it is, as I've seen several people use it in debates now.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The arguement is completely ridiculous mind you - the economy would have worked exactly the same way if you had putten a bunch of 30 year olds together.

[redserpent4]

 

2. The gold piece limit/cap (not sure if I remember the amount correctly) of approximately 2.1 billion gp. Add in the rumor (fact?) that anyone passing that limit would lose all their money.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Its a fact, at least, if it is based off of the same way that lineage II did it. And I know for a *fact* that in lineage II if you go above 2.1bil it will turn into a negative number.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Then something else is used. If you try to make a pile bigger than 2147483647 it just says "you can't make a pile that big"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

and no, rares should not be removed from the game, the rares are doing little harm, they are just there. If you want one, you have to work for it and that's all there is to it

[04arch3r]

Rares support the use of Ebay.