The complete "Should F2P get updates?" Debate! 5,000 views!

[Buckeyemange]

Congrats to me, this has hit Hot Topic! Yay! Uh, right, back to the debate...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you post here, use your brain! I know some of you only have a few brain cells, but try anyway!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Should F2P get updates? The question is a big topic in half of the topics in the suggestion fourm.

 

 

 

You don't pay, you don't get updates!

 

 

 

But we give money by looking and ads!

 

 

 

True, but not as much as a assured $5 dollars a month. Not to say that I am partial to the side of no, but still an important fact.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now, the F2Per's will more than likely all say yes, while half the P2P will say no, and the other half will say yes as well. I am a member as well, and for me, I really don't care if they do or not. It doesn't effect me, but I am also in a way angry that they are not giving an update to those who do pay the fee, and giving F2P updates takes away time that TB@JT could be using to make another great P2P update.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There is the Long list of why they can't be members.

 

 

 

Our parents won't pay/Not enough time/Don't have an extra $5 dollars a month for a game/Whatever.

If your parents don't want to pay for the game, then you can create a PaypPal account and pay by cash.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Food for thought!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

With help from Nadril and Jake Corsair, I believe that I've found an decent estimate of how the money breaks down.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

These are projected numbers!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

For econimics, Jagex must make more money through members then adverts. So if M=member's profits, and N=Non-member's profits, then that means M>N.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

At that point, we find what each side pays. We know a member pays 5 bucks a month, and Non's an undifined number.M becomes member's accounts, N becomes non member PLAYERS (Not accounts!) and Y is what Non's pay through adverts. If that's true, then 5M>XY.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now, using estimates, Nadril figures that there are 2.5 million non-member players (If more, tell me), and Members now have 1,000,000 players. In that case, 5(1,000,000)>2,500,000Y, or 5,000,000>2,500,000Y.

 

 

 

So you say...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So 5,000,000>2,500,000Y

 

 

 

5,000,000/2,500,000=2, which is>y

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So a month of ads would need to be at least 2 dollars to match the member's profits!

 

 

 

So, 1 non-member's player is equal to about 2.00 a month, compared to one member being 5. So, figure that the lowest common denomenator is 10. That means it would take So, 5 F2Pers is equal to the profit gained by 2 Members.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also, a great peice on the subject.

 

 

 

Someone else used a "food" analogy earlier in this thread. I'm going to use something along those lines.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Let's say a restaurant decides to hand out 1000 free meal coupons each week. The coupon states: "You are entitled to one free meal, consisting of a hamburger and side order of fries. No substitutions."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now when someone goes in with their free coupon, they will see others eating steaks, baked potatos, salads, etc. But they only get a hamburger and fries. But the hamburger is delicious, and you are happy with it. Now after time, you want to try one of their other dishes, but all you have is the free coupon.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Why does the resaurant owe you anything other than the meal they promise? So what if your being there helps them (word of mouth - "man the food is great there, only had the hamburger, but it's great." and also people passing by the restaurant would see a full parking lot all the time, figuring it's a good place to eat.), they "paid" you by giving you a free meal each time you were there.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Even if some people decided the free coupon wasn't worth it anymore, and stopped going. There will always be others willing to grab that coupon. So there won't be a shortage of "free coupon" people. As a matter of fact, with each new person with a coupon, they extend their "word of mouth" advertisements.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No, the restaurant doesn't "owe" anything to the coupon holders. At some point, they might make changes to the coupon to allow other things but it's not like they really have too.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As for the "importance of f2p", I don't deny there is one. But it's not one that makes the balance of the game hang on. Like I mentioned before, there are tons of MMORPG's that do not have a free community, that are as good or better than RS's. If for some reason, Jagex ever decided to end f2p, it would take adjustment. But the game would go on, and who is to say not for the better? (NOTE: I'm not saying it would be better without f2p before anyone starts flaming. Just stating that it's the game might be possibly better).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So, opinions? Should F2P get updates?

[Danqazmlp]

I'm a member and I think they should get updates, just not very frequent, maybe 1 every 4-5 months.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

F2p has been almost the same since iv'e been playing, almost 3 years now, and the f2p area is VERY old fashioned in a way.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

F2p do give a bit of money to jagex, by the ads, only on an estimate by me of about 10% of what members do (correct me if its more), but its still enough for them to deserve more than just the 1 update a year.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Some of the F2p crowd cannot afford the membership, maybe because of poor family or because of other situations, but they should'nt be as punished for that as they are.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On the topic of members saying 'they could have taken time to make a members update', sereously how dumb?! Do they not realise that as a member you CAN do f2p things, #-o. It just means its probably going to be aimed at lower lvls, but so? there are lower lvl members still.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

AW :boohoo: to those who whine about members not getting as much updates if f2p get one, us members have 4 a month, thats 48 a year! can we not spare 2 or 3 of those? are we that selfish?

[Evil_Sabre]

anyone can make 5 dollars a month, even if you arent old enough for a job...cut a neighbors grass once a month for 5 bucks, maybe help do someones yard work or do a couple chores for your parents. There are tons more things you can do to get 5 bucks a month

[runnybabbit]

anyone can make 5 dollars a month, even if you arent old enough for a job...cut a neighbors grass once a month for 5 bucks, maybe help do someones yard work or do a couple chores for your parents. There are tons more things you can do to get 5 bucks a month

 

 

 

What if you are not allowed by your parents? F2p should get updates (like the SOS) about 2 a year I think

[Evil_Sabre]

 

anyone can make 5 dollars a month, even if you arent old enough for a job...cut a neighbors grass once a month for 5 bucks, maybe help do someones yard work or do a couple chores for your parents. There are tons more things you can do to get 5 bucks a month

 

 

 

What if you are not allowed by your parents? F2p should get updates (like the SOS) about 2 a year I think

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

if your parents wont let you thats not jagex's fault

[Giordano]

The only thing F2P should get in some more bank space...seriously that things tiny!! Other than that its good as it is.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You can say F2P pays for most of Jagex earnings, but they dont pay themselves. P2P deserves the stuff they get because they pay themselfs, F2P in the other hand do not. They 'view' the ad, which the ad companies record and pay Jagex. The ad companies pay Jagex, not F2P players. What the Ad companies get is a hope that you'll buy thier product...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Im probably confusing you right now so I'll make it simple:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

P2P Players -> Jagex

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

F2P Players....................Jagex

 

 

 

^

 

 

 

Ad companies -> -> -> -> ^^

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Arrows show signs of payments (periods just shows the space, ignore 'em)

 

 

 

P2P pays, so they get updates. F2P dont pay, so they dont get updates. Just because someone pays Jagex, doesn't mean F2P get rights for updates.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If YOU want something, YOU gotta pay.

[stevepole]

I think that f2p should get updates because like others mentioned its not that hard to get $5 a month. Its less then a quarter a day.

[Bufoman]

im not reely the best person to talk heer im only a life long free to player for around 3 years, with luck we will get one from classic to speek on the matter. now some of you belive they shouldent get anything becouse they dont pay. back before runescape was widely known it was All Free to play the ads used to pay for it and so did donations. many of you have not been around to see this nor have I however I have noticed a decline in the free to play worlds. over the past 3 years I have seen more scammers, less costomer support, and more need for bank space.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In eddition to this I have seen free to players become treeted like second class citizens by members. just becouse you pay does not make you a better person than those who dont. with every small update or random event I have seen the need for bankspace go up and the quality go down. okay this is starting to sound like a Rant and I do apologys but I would just like to point out to you that free to players are not all free loaders.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

we form a base to the runescape economy selling resources cheep to members and buying there goods for a high price in return. and who might you ask has the mony to buy rune (t) armour? the life long free to players who are praticaly being ignored. and who provides the yews members buy in huge quantitys? Free to players do thats who. and is this the new free to players who will probaly get membership within a few months? no its the life long free to players who either buy choice or circumstance do not get membership.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We are not second class citizens of the lands of runescape we are people too just like you behind the keyboard. yes members should get more updates than free to players maby 5 times the number but if I had my way we would get updates too. or perhaps after a few years time some of the older updates and lands/ skills for members should become free to play start giveing us more content and more to do. then what makes people want to get members you ask? simple increase the quality round the clock and make runescape the best browser based online game hands down.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

alright maby im asking for too much but as a free to player I am sick of getting even the most basic needs like more bank space denied to me simply becouse I do not pay to play the game.

[Ouchy]

i think that f2p should get some updates. For one, when will f2p get a new quest! it's boring once you've done all the f2p quests. What else is there to do? There should be at least one mini-game for f2p (isn't that the champoins place?)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I for one am p2p but with a good life friend who is f2p i think the f2p gets boring quickly and needs uptades JaGEX :evil: :evil: !!

[Mukanshin]

Hello. I've been playing since "Classic" was Runescape. I've been playing for about 6 years now, purely (what is now called) "F2P".

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

To all those members who say "we pay, we get", or something along those lines, I have news for you... Runescape did not always have a pay aspect. All it had were the ads and donations. So, the mere fact that you have either forgotten that it was free for a few years in the beginning, or that you started after the membership aspect was put in, invalidates your argument. So, please find something new to say, as it is getting quite tedious and repetitive to read this same thing over and over and over. Typing out lengthy posts to attempt to prove your "point" is just a waste of your time.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

F2P has gradually turned into basically one giant tutorial before you buy a membership. If you doubt this, then speak to others who have been playing long enough to see the changes. It's true, believe it, or not.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Have you ever noticed all the membership plugs in F2P? Strategically placed things so that you're sure to constantly see the "You must be on a member's server to do this"? Commands that have no business being in F2P? The steal command? The member spells mixed in with the F2P spells? The member prays? The strategic placing of the Stronghold of Security, and the obvious reason why its there? (<- don't get me started on that)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The quality of Runescape has seriously degraded over the years.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now, don't get me wrong, because members choose to give money to Jagex for extra features DOES entitle them to all the extra content they get.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

However, F2Ps need to be treated better. Simply paying doesn't make you better. I've seen so many members that need to be caged, in my opinion. F2Ps need more of everything, in slow release. The only emergency thing needed is more bank space.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Overall, F2P has changed VERY little since the game was entirely free. Have there been some updates and improvements? Yes. If you try to stretch these to make them seem like a lot, please don't waste your time. I don't know who you think you're fooling, but it's not me, for one.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As I see it, F2Ps DO deserve to get updates, perhaps one update every two months, while members could still get their 2-4 A MONTH that they have always gotten. You members who seem to cry about the "fact" that would make you get less updates, ...are acting quite frankly, bluntly, and honestly, like spoiled brats. All they would need is a small team to work on some F2P updates, while leaving you members with your huge team to pump out your continuous, or near continuous updates.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The "right" as I believe it was called, to get updates is a right to EVERYONE.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Members that don't care if F2P gets anything or not? That's fine. But, the next time something goes wrong in members, or turns out to be quite awkward... I don't want to hear a single peep out of you. No jumping up in arms about it or anything. Simply send your customer support queries to Jagex and be done with it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Scrounge around all the time finding odd handyman things to get $5 a month? Doing all that for an online game? Anyone who wants to say that, please step back and do it yourself first, before condescending to tell F2Ps to do it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now, this really is entirely my own opinion, but if your parents won't give you the money, or allow you to pay to play an online game... Yes, in a sense, it is Jagex's fault. Had they not made a membership aspect to the game, there would be no problem of this at all. Look at the root causes when you try to form an argument, please.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now, I have far more on this subject, but I think this is enough for now. As far as there being some debate about this matter? That's quite funny. There is no debate about something when it's a matter of fact. If I've come off as a bit harsh about this matter, I apologize. But, the truth is, I'm holding back a lot to keep it civil.

[Bobthefishy]

I'm f2p and from a business standpoint(Jagex), F2p should not get many if any update. That's not saying I don't want one, it is just saying, that every update to f2p is another batch of people not paying to play. Not to mention the money that it cost to develop that update. This is completely money lost; they don't gain anything back from a f2p update, unless it is a "tease" to members.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

To the person above who said that f2p needed a mini-game:

 

 

 

While, it would be amazing if they added a f2p mini-game, it will never happen. The only reason that Jagex has f2p is to get people to try out the game, get hooked, and pay for members. A mini-game would make f2p a lot more exciting and interesting. It may or may not get people to become a member. Maybe it would make people want more mini-games, maybe it would make people more content with f2p. I don't believe that Jagex would take the chance of losing tons of potential customers because of an update.

[yomom1919]

I think Jagex should play it smart (business-wise) and make a few f2p updates.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Why?

 

 

 

Because all members once were f2pers. Then the f2pers made a fateful decision to become members, which extended their runescape-life play by atleast a year or two. However, the other half of f2pers dont make the fateful decision to go to members. Not because they cant pay, not because their parents wont let them, but because runescape simply isnt interesting. Then the f2pers are led to believe that members is just as boring as f2p.

 

 

 

Honestly, looking back at free-to-play now, as a member, I cant really remeber what motivated me to become a member, or even play runescape at all.

 

 

 

Right now players in free to play honestly have no idea what members is like. If you head over to the "help and advice" section of our forums, I'll bet youll see an "is members worth it" post. Right now, all players in f2p get are tedious skills, small banks, very limited questing, and not much in the way of "fun stuff". If this is what a player got out of free to play, do you actually think they believe members is drastically different?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

However, giving them updates, like many people say, defeats the purpose of paying per month. However, jagex (Im assuming this) is trying to change f2p into a demo. And, like any other game demo, it must be attractive and fun to buy the full product. I dont believe Jagex should give f2p updates, I believe Jagex should give them a sample of non-tedious skill training, a sample of an extended quest, and a sample of "fun stuff".

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think Jagex needs to start thinking like a corporation. They shouldnt give f2p updates just to extend their pay-less f2p life. They should attempt to lure players into members. If a person is set on being "F2p for life", why should Jagex, now a corporation with many employees, continue acting like a free fun online games site such as miniclip or the like? I dont believe they have any reason to extend a players non paying life. They should attempt to bring them into members, so they earn revenue.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Then, Jagex would be benefiting themselves by making f2p a fun demo. They would be thinking like a real company.

[Doughnut]

anyone can make 5 dollars a month, even if you arent old enough for a job...cut a neighbors grass once a month for 5 bucks, maybe help do someones yard work or do a couple chores for your parents. There are tons more things you can do to get 5 bucks a month

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Can you send 5 dollars in cash to Jagex through the computer?

[Bobthefishy]

Your entire point of view is from being a member, as you stated. I'm saying that this is a bad thing, but there are a lot of people that play in f2p, and are not bored. I've never been a member, yet I played on a members account before. It was different and a little more fun, but for me f2p is fulfilling enough. There is plenty of "fun stuff" in f2p. As most members do, they look back at f2p and say that it's boring and no fun. When they were having a perfectly fun time when they had never been a member. The statement "ignorance is bliss" is perfect here. While p2p may be more fun than f2p, without actually experiencing it, f2p is just fine.

[Zachcorp]

for over 4 years i played f2p, so I believe I'm at a standpoint to speak, and bear with me now:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Back in the days of classic, member's was something that was crude and not extremely worth it, as being a member just got you a couple more skills and around 30 quests added on. Recently Jagex sped up the rate of making members more worth it adding to them more of everything.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now, recently I became a member (through my own cash :thumbsup: ) and I can see what all the fuss is about this once-a-week update thing. It's great to have Jagex's world revolve around you. Last thing f2p got was, yes ladies and gentlemen, the stronghold of security, but before that, nothing! And more Nothing! I can understand more f2p bank space (just like a row would make the difference) and a f2p minigame (barbarian assault is terrible IMO anyway, just let f2p play too) or even some cool new f2p stuff, like training places or whatever, and a quest or 2.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is not a terrible request, as Jagex makes at least 1 quest a month, and could make one f2p (add-on to something like rune mysteries?) I think they pump out enough junk for p2p weekly anyway

[stevepole]

 

anyone can make 5 dollars a month, even if you arent old enough for a job...cut a neighbors grass once a month for 5 bucks, maybe help do someones yard work or do a couple chores for your parents. There are tons more things you can do to get 5 bucks a month

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Can you send 5 dollars in cash to Jagex through the computer?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

but you can go to a local grocery store like Safeway and buy a prepaid credit card.

[Jake_Corsair]

for over 4 years i played f2p, so I believe I'm at a standpoint to speak, and bear with me now:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Back in the days of classic, member's was something that was crude and not extremely worth it, as being a member just got you a couple more skills and around 30 quests added on. Recently Jagex sped up the rate of making members more worth it adding to them more of everything.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now, recently I became a member (through my own cash :thumbsup: ) and I can see what all the fuss is about this once-a-week update thing. It's great to have Jagex's world revolve around you. Last thing f2p got was, yes ladies and gentlemen, the stronghold of security, but before that, nothing! And more Nothing! I can understand more f2p bank space (just like a row would make the difference) and a f2p minigame (barbarian assault is terrible IMO anyway, just let f2p play too) or even some cool new f2p stuff, like training places or whatever, and a quest or 2.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is not a terrible request, as Jagex makes at least 1 quest a month, and could make one f2p (add-on to something like rune mysteries?) I think they pump out enough junk for p2p weekly anyway

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Stronghold of Security (as you mentioned) which included 4 new monsters to train on and a new way for f2p to teleport to barbarian village. A new bank in lumby and new prayers also. All three updates within the last 6-7 months.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm all for updates for f2p (especially bank space), but I get tired of hearing how Jagex never gives f2p anything. I understand, not everyone can get members if they choose too. But that's a part of life, sometimes you just have to accept it and take what you can get.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Actually Jagex doesn't owe any of us updates (certainly not weekly updates), past the month we are currently playing. At the end of the month, my $5 doesn't entitle me to any future consideration. All paying (or viewing ads) entitles any of us to, is the current time we are playing. Updates are produced as quickly for members, in order to entice people to continue paying $5 a month or(to a good extent) start paying $5 a month. If updates came more often for f2p, some people would wonder why bother with members then. They are a business, and there goal is to make as much profit as possible. Not to just make enough money to cover expenses and a little extra. Anything they can do to help increase those profits will always be a priority for them.

[Nadril]

No.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's a free game and to be honest your lucky it *is* free, as f2p is really the only way they can get members. (honestly, who would actualy start paying for the game right away?)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It really is a simple concept, you don't pay -- you don't get updates. It's like asking for an upgraded speaker system for free on this new car you also got for free. It doesn't make sense.

[Mukanshin]

As I've stated, if anyone doesn't know, RS did not have a pay aspect.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Is Jagex a big company now? Yes, from what I know. Is it a priority to always increase profits? If you're greedy, yes. You have to remember, this is not the goal of all companies. Consider gaining members and gaining money their goals, while F2P updates (NOT related to protecting their accounts so they will have them long enough to become members) could be considered charity work. Any successful company does both. Gain profits and have charity work.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Would giving F2Ps updates at a slow, steady pace cause members to wonder why they're paying to play? If they forget about all the extra features they already have access to: all those skills, spells, those few extra prays, all the frequent updates they get, and will continue to get, all those quests, among other things, then yes. Plainly and simply, it's quite greedy of anyone to say so. You pay for the extra content that is ALREADY in the game. You pay for the next month, then you're entitled to the extra content for that month, as well as any updates they may produce.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

When it comes down to it, just because you're a member doesn't mean they HAVE to give you updates either, especially not as often as they do. Would people still remain members if they slacked-off on their updates? Why, yes, of course they would. You know why? All the member stuff they have, all the bank space they have, the fact that they've gotten used to everything a member has. The only thing that would make them stop paying, is if they decided to take a break from RS for a while, or quit. The thought of having to chuck out all that member stuff, plus more, to give you enough F2P room to do anything... why, that would be enough of an incentive to keep your membership right there.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have been told that their profits are really quite up there. So, let's say hypothetically that their profits are about 40m a year. About how much would it cost to have a small team (probably very small) to work on F2P updates at a relaxed pace? I'm guessing it shouldn't be more than 100k a year. If so, and you think that going from 40m in profits to 39.9m in profits is really hurting them, then perhaps F2P shouldn't get anything. Who in their right mind would say that going from 40m to 39.9m is a giant loss? Only the greedy, only the greedy. Even if their profits were only 5m a year, it still wouldn't be a great loss.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Greed really is such a reoccurring concept that it's quite tiresome to keep going back and pointing it out.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now, with what has been said, I can see that this, like all the other "debates" like this, is going no where. It's just going to keep going in circles. What will we all have accomplished when it's all over? Nothing, but getting a headache. So, I'm going to bow out of the debate, saving myself the trouble and the time, as well as some aspirin in the end.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Goodbye.

[Nadril]

As I've stated, if anyone doesn't know, RS did not have a pay aspect.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yup, it used to when it was small and could support its self and make a profit off of f2p. I was there back then.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Is Jagex a big company now? Yes, from what I know. Is it a priority to always increase profits? If you're greedy, yes. You have to remember, this is not the goal of all companies. Consider gaining members and gaining money their goals, while F2P updates (NOT related to protecting their accounts so they will have them long enough to become members) could be considered charity work. Any successful company does both. Gain profits and have charity work.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Your only kidding yourself if you really think giving a free game to all the pre-teens of the world "charity". Last time I checked giving something free to someone who is rich enough to own a computer and an internet connection isn't charitable.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Second, lets get something straight right here and now, ok? Jagex = Buisness. Name me a buisness that does NOT revolve around making a profit. They make a profit by creating a good game. Yeah, it's their goal to provide a fun game for people to play, and it is their goal to make money. You do not spend all the money and time it takes in the industry just to let someone play it for free.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Would giving F2Ps updates at a slow, steady pace cause members to wonder why they're paying to play? If they forget about all the extra features they already have access to: all those skills, spells, those few extra prays, all the frequent updates they get, and will continue to get, all those quests, among other things, then yes. Plainly and simply, it's quite greedy of anyone to say so. You pay for the extra content that is ALREADY in the game. You pay for the next month, then you're entitled to the extra content for that month, as well as any updates they may produce.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Giving them content again is a waste. How often do you see a games trial update their land? I, personaly, don't see anyone complaining that the Ryzom trial doesn't have anything to do. It runs off the same princaple as runescape, a free trial that lasts for as long as you would like it for with a pay to play option.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You don't upgrade demos and trials.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

When it comes down to it, just because you're a member doesn't mean they HAVE to give you updates either, especially not as often as they do. Would people still remain members if they slacked-off on their updates? Why, yes, of course they would. You know why? All the member stuff they have, all the bank space they have, the fact that they've gotten used to everything a member has. The only thing that would make them stop paying, is if they decided to take a break from RS for a while, or quit. The thought of having to chuck out all that member stuff, plus more, to give you enough F2P room to do anything... why, that would be enough of an incentive to keep your membership right there.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No, they don't and I don't see how that can even remotly prove your point. Your pretty much just saying that if members didn't get any more updates they would stay members. Yes, that probaly is true for a lot of people. It doesn't support your argument at ALL though.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have been told that their profits are really quite up there. So, let's say hypothetically that their profits are about 40m a year. About how much would it cost to have a small team (probably very small) to work on F2P updates at a relaxed pace? I'm guessing it shouldn't be more than 100k a year. If so, and you think that going from 40m in profits to 39.9m in profits is really hurting them, then perhaps F2P shouldn't get anything. Who in their right mind would say that going from 40m to 39.9m is a giant loss? Only the greedy, only the greedy. Even if their profits were only 5m a year, it still wouldn't be a great loss.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Again, companies to not upgrade their trials and if they do they very rarely do. Also with Jagex being low on customer support it would be a waste of man power and money to hire more for f2p, which is gaining them hardly any money, instead of using those people for CS.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Greed really is such a reoccurring concept that it's quite tiresome to keep going back and pointing it out.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm really getting tired of you throwing around this word. Are you ever going to get a job? If so, you are making money for providing a service to others.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Jagex provides a FREE service (note the word free) and also a premium service which makes them money. Any time and man power that is spent working on the free service is a waste that is better used for the people that keep the company up.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It is human nature to want to make money. we NEED to make profits to make money. As I told you before your only kidding yourself if you truly belive that companies out there would just hand out something for free without any gain to themselves.

[yomom1919]

I really think Jagex needs to realize what f2p is. Runescape's only method of growth is by word-of mouth. F2p serves that purpose. However, there really is no reason to update f2p. I do believe that jagex should make f2p more fun (like a demo). Real videogame demoes are as fun or more fun than the actual game.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Right now, Jagex's method is like this:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

They give f2pers a slab of bad quality, fatty steak. Then they tell the f2pers "Members is much, much better than that".

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What they should be doing (as a corporation seeking to expand itself):

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

They should give f2pers a petit fliet mignon (preety much the best cut of steak, but its very small), and tell them that "Members tastes exactly like that, only a whole lot more of it."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

With the first method, players are left asking "Well, how much is much better". Since they've never tasted anything better than a fat-filled steak, they really dont know better steak exists.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

With the second method, players realize how fun members really is, and they are left saying "Wow, that was great, I should order some more!". Since players want more, they head over to members, and bam. Revenue for Jagex.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Right now I dont think Jagex knows exactly how true videogame development and attraction works. I really think Jagex needs to realize their corporate responsibilities.

[Jake_Corsair]

Another point, is that on the jagex corporate site, under company history, they state, that their original goals were twofold. The first to make a game that was commercially viable through online advertising, THEN to create a premium subscription game.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So, the game being free in the beginning has little bearing on things. As it seems it's was always their intent to make a members version.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The question "Should F2P get updates?". The answer is that they do. Maybe not as many as they'd like or not the update they want (a teaching tool for account security). But an update is an update. If Jagex truly didn't care about F2P, then there wouldn't have been any updates at all to the free game at all once members was introduced. The free game is self supporting in that there is nothing in it that "makes" anyone have to buy members to continue playing. It's all choice. As such, if you choose not to pay, then you accept that most updates will be for the premium version of the game.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And no, being a member doesn't entitle you to updates. But with the number of other MMORPG's out there (especially ones that have better graphics and gameplay options), Jagex has to do something to keep members playing(and yes, paying). So what they can't do with graphics and gameplay options, they decided to do with almost weekly content updates.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I really think Jagex needs to realize what f2p is. Runescape's only method of growth is by word-of mouth. F2p serves that purpose. However, there really is no reason to update f2p. I do believe that jagex should make f2p more fun (like a demo). Real videogame demoes are as fun or more fun than the actual game.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Right now, Jagex's method is like this:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

They give f2pers a slab of bad quality, fatty steak. Then they tell the f2pers "Members is much, much better than that".

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What they should be doing (as a corporation seeking to expand itself):

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

They should give f2pers a petit fliet mignon (preety much the best cut of steak, but its very small), and tell them that "Members tastes exactly like that, only a whole lot more of it."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

With the first method, players are left asking "Well, how much is much better". Since they've never tasted anything better than a fat-filled steak, they really dont know better steak exists.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

With the second method, players realize how fun members really is, and they are left saying "Wow, that was great, I should order some more!". Since players want more, they head over to members, and bam. Revenue for Jagex.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Right now I dont think Jagex knows exactly how true videogame development and attraction works. I really think Jagex needs to realize their corporate responsibilities.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Name one game that the demo is more fun than the actual game?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And word of mouth is not the only way, Jagex advertises at a number of sites (which is why there are so many complaints about miniclip, etc).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And how is f2p a piece of "fatty steak"? All skills available in f2p can be trained to their max, their is no time limit and most of the content from members is also found in free worlds. So they are giving a "filet mignon". Because members is just like that, but a whole lot more of it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Earlier today when I logged in there were over 200k people playing at that time (my homeworld was actually full for the first time since construction came out, that I've seen). I think Jagex is well aware of attracting players to the game.

[Video_Tycoon]

Yes we do deserve updates... :cry:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I've finished almost all F2P quests and gotten to lvl 60 in 2 months..boring much? Heck yeah! With all of the F2Pers they may even get Jagex more money than members!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Don't blame us if our parents won't let us! LET US HAVE MORE! Maybe than Our parent will see the diff between F2P and P2P and let us get members...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't even think we get an update... -.-

[yomom1919]

Name one game that the demo is more fun than the actual game?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And word of mouth is not the only way, Jagex advertises at a number of sites (which is why there are so many complaints about miniclip, etc).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And how is f2p a piece of "fatty steak"? All skills available in f2p can be trained to their max, their is no time limit and most of the content from members is also found in free worlds. So they are giving a "filet mignon". Because members is just like that, but a whole lot more of it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Earlier today when I logged in there were over 200k people playing at that time (my homeworld was actually full for the first time since construction came out, that I've seen). I think Jagex is well aware of attracting players to the game.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Jagex doesnt advertise on miniclip. They are posted as a game on miniclip, but they do not have any banners, etc. Honestly... how many times have you seen a runescape poppup? Poppups, banners, etc. are advertising. Jagex isnt paying miniclip to host runescape, Miniclip is greatly benefiting from it because of their increased page hits. Jagex doesnt advertise period...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If f2p was truly honestly as fun as members, only less of it (thats what you are saying), then i dont see why im not in f2p. Name one fun minigame in f2p. Name one easy way to train a skill in f2p. Name one thing besides pking to do in your free time. Name one outstanding thing to merchant (besides ores and yews). F2p isnt attractive. I have many f2p friends on my friends list. They always pm me saying "hmm im bored what should i do?" Most of their skills are 60+.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You mentioned that skills can be trained to the max. Ok, but the max your gona get is swordies, a dimond ammy crafting ability, yew trees, and rune rocks in lvl 45 wildy. None of that is attractive, and none of that brings in profits.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You mentioned most of the content found in members is in free worlds. Its not. Not at all. Less than what, 10% of monsters are f2p? Less than 10% of items are f2p? Skills are very limited, obviously on puropse.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The only reason players move over to members from f2p is their own ambitions. The whole game of runescape is centered around players desire to excell, get rich, beat their friends, level skills. Good luck finding a player without a "goal" in runescape. Runescape is most certanily not centered around fun. And if anythings fun, its certanily not f2p. Members allows players to excell. That is the draw, the attraction to members at the moment. The players personal will. (I also think this would be genius on jagex's part, but they did it by accident.)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As for demos being more fun than the actual game, have you ever read a video gaming magazine... ever? Have you ever heard of an overhyped game that ends up getting bad ratings? Thats because the demos were fantastic, and the game doesnt live up to the demo's expectations. Alot of times demos are better than the actual game.

[Burzuk]

Jagex doesnt advertise on miniclip.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Err...yes they do. From your post (and your post alone) it seems to me you don't know what advertisement is. Just by appearing in the miniclip site Runescape is advertising. Runescape in the miniclip site is not "agressively advertising" but the mere fact that it's name is there makes it so that it gets thousands of clicks by people that want to know what it is (Advertising).

 

 

 

As for demos being more fun than the actual game, have you ever read a video gaming magazine... ever?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes i have read a video gaming magazine several in fact. The demos never were better than the actual games (i have demos too). The fact is that most demos capture the very best game has to offer, since Runescape is constantly evolving this makes it dificult. The expectation that the demo arises is also very different because you see the best of the game in the demo.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

My suggestion to persuade f2per's to make the "jump" to p2p is offer a one time trial that would allow people to see member's world :D

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On topic... Yes f2p only needs one update...complete the bank row that is missing.

 

 

 

i'm f2p.