The complete "Should F2P get updates?" Debate! 5,000 views!

[jaskkes]

I know that the simple answer is for me to say that 'you get what you pay for' and that is what i'm going to stick with. I'm F2P for most of my runescape life, although I do get runescape membership when school is not in session. To be honest, i'm sick of the 'ads bring in the revenue excuse' mainly for the fact that it is unlikely that many people ACTUALLY view the things at which they are advertising.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I know that it might seem that ad revenue PAYS for your runescape, and may even get Jagex more money. But honestly, it's not coming out of YOUR pocket, like members do for their monthly fix.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

For the younger F2P players that don't have access due to parents not allowing you too (I am in the same boat), I feel for you because of this. But although Jagex is getting money from the ads that you have to deal with, it's still not your hard earned money that your giving them, your only really giving them the numbers to increase their profit through playing the F2P version.

[Einsteven]

 

 

 

 

*Update* Wait, I do have something to prove otherwise. Neopets.com.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not sure at all how this disproves my valuation of Runescape advertisements.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Obviously it's a good investment for the advertisers, else they wouldn't be doing it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I was trying to put the point across that if a child site is successful with ads (children who have absolutely no control of money), then obviously ads on runescape, where there are more kids who work part time, would be just as successful.

[Buckeyemange]

I liked jake's peice, so I moved it to the front.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Keep the idea churning.

[Mayjest]

Also, Mayjest, putting my own opinion out bluntly: I don't believe F2P's should get a lot of updates either. Not much really. But I think there are some serious imbalances in the F2P worlds that Jagex is ignoring to attend to that makes the game unattractive to play for some people. As I have mentioned before, rangers are unpopular in the F2P world because they are not allowed to make any of their semi-reusable resources to help them train, while melee-ers can make everything they need (yes, in a long time, but still helps). As well, as you said, they could be putting out a few small bits of some skills for F2P's to be hooked onto, so that they will want to improve it by joining the P2P's.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You miss understand me slightly - I wasn't saying that F2P should be given a small amount of the theiving skill - I'm saying that the HAM caves could be opened up, the the thieve option available to everyone. But only members can actually thieve (F2P get a message similar to when they try to open the members gates now). Non-members could see exactly what they're missing and be more likely to get members.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's similar to the falador graphical update. They saw how Falador looked, and Jagex was able to say that ALL the members world looks that good.

[neovenator]

look people it's really simple:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

this topic acts like there are no updates for f2p but there are adjusting monsters is also an update for f2p, stronghold of security is also f2p so we could say that f2pers get 1 majour update a year while p2pers get one good (if ur lucky) in a month so you get what you pay for.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

jagex isnt that stupid to get f2p loads of updates they gotta earn money to you know

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

i think the 5 dollar a month is really little compared whit what you get in exchange. do just become member if you want updates and if you cant get member for any reason and you want it then i suggest you play another game

[sour_tacos]

I DO think that F2P could use a few more updates. Not as many as P2P, but after all, Runescape would have no business without F2P. Every P2P you see today probably started out as a F2P tempted by the goods that P2P has to offer. I, myself, is one of them. I am currently between subscriptions, but I must, P2P is as good as it looks from the other side of the fence. But would it really kill Jagex to give the other fraction of their business a little perk every now and then? Maybe a new quest this month, in a couple months maybe release a new item or skill. Its like this. Say you own a dry cleaning business. Half of your profits come from rich guys who bring in their suits. They pay the most money, so you give them foot massages and free martinis when they enter their luxury side of the store. The average joes who come in to get their shirts cleaned get nothing too special on their side of the shop. Maybe a holiday freebie every once in a blue moon, but definetly not as much as the rich guys. The average guy business is dropping, hurting your profits. So what do you do to keep the average joes coming to your store? Give them a couple perks now and then. Maybe they'll be convinced to bring their suits in too. Get it? No? Thats what I expected. =;

[Nadril]

I DO think that F2P could use a few more updates. Not as many as P2P, but after all, Runescape would have no business without F2P. Every P2P you see today probably started out as a F2P tempted by the goods that P2P has to offer. I, myself, is one of them. I am currently between subscriptions, but I must, P2P is as good as it looks from the other side of the fence. But would it really kill Jagex to give the other fraction of their business a little perk every now and then? Maybe a new quest this month, in a couple months maybe release a new item or skill. Its like this. Say you own a dry cleaning business. Half of your profits come from rich guys who bring in their suits. They pay the most money, so you give them foot massages and free martinis when they enter their luxury side of the store. The average joes who come in to get their shirts cleaned get nothing too special on their side of the shop. Maybe a holiday freebie every once in a blue moon, but definetly not as much as the rich guys. The average guy business is dropping, hurting your profits. So what do you do to keep the average joes coming to your store? Give them a couple perks now and then. Maybe they'll be convinced to bring their suits in too. Get it? No? Thats what I expected. =;

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thats a horrible comparison. A dry cleaner giving people massages, what? And at that you also asume that because there isn't as many "average" people coming they are hurting profits. However, you forget to remember that the f2p players in runescape don't pay anything. The money made from advertisements is not a *big* deal, and unless all of f2p up and leaves there are always other players willing to play a game for free. Just like in your example (if we could use it) if they drycleaner let people take in their cloths for free in return for filling out a survey from a company, or something trivial like that. The dry cleaning service is not as good as if you would have paid, and is slower, but you got it for free. The money they make for helping these companys advertise/whatever is minimal, but it is money. There are always people who would want to have free drycleaning so even if someone figured "hey, this service sucks!" there would be 3 to take his place.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The fact is (as I have stated before) is that Jagex has no intention on having people stay f2p. No, they want them to get members. If the person up and leaves it doesn't give them a second thought because they will have plenty more joining every day to fullfil that persons place. Jagex benifits in no way from giving free to play updates, not at all.

[GrimHams]

The purpose of f2p is to get people into playing runescape so they can get members, 4.50 a month is hardly a lot of money and anyone saying "oh i can't afford it" is probably talking rubbish, it costs more than that to keep your internet going and im sure if you can't afford 4.50 then you probably wouldnt have a computer.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

F2p doesn't "deserve" anything because they're freeloaders, plain and simple, be content with what you have and get members if you're not pleased, instead of expecting more for nothing in return. You're bloody lucky jagex lets you play f2p for longer than a month and then stopping you.

[dutchdreams]

The fact is (as I have stated before) is that Jagex has no intention on having people stay f2p. No, they want them to get members. If the person up and leaves it doesn't give them a second thought because they will have plenty more joining every day to fullfil that persons place. Jagex benifits in no way from giving free to play updates, not at all.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I agree F2P doesn't deserve updates for their longtime freeloaders.

 

 

 

However, Jagex has to walk a fine line here. And I'll use a word that you like throwing in every now and then as well: balance :P.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On one hand they have to provide a (free) trial version of the game that will make people want to play more and actually pay for it. So, to entice people to become members, they cannot make the trial version too good. On the other hand, they cannot make the trial version so lousy that people will turn away from it quickly and spread the word that RS is an outdated game with bad graphics and not good enough content (variety, playability, entertainment factor).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

To lure in a fish, one needs a good bait. If the bait isn't good, the fish will only nibble on it, then leave it be before one can lure it in. The decision whether or not the F2P version is still good enough bait compared to other baits on the market, is of course up to Jagex management. They probably have monthly figures of the number of people becoming members after playing F2P, at their disposal. If the first impression of the game is bad, causing too many potential members to quit too quickly while playing F2P, then the trial version needs to be udpated.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am guessing that the graphical updates (the first ones were F2P locations and monsters) and the introduction of the tutors, were probably induced by feedback provided by people quitting the F2P version quickly: bad graphics (compared to other games), too complex/difficult.

 

 

 

Potential customers raise their levels of expectation of a game's content as time progresses. I mean, Pong, Pacman and Atari games were awesome decades ago: there was nothing better around. If given the choice now between a Nintendo system and the Atari system, I'm pretty sure most will opt for the Nintendo. Jagex has to safeguard the content and playability of their F2P to prevent it becoming the Atari system amongst other MMORPGs on the market.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Jagex has to keep in mind that they have competition from other games. It has to keep in mind it caters to a young audience, which often decides on eye candy rather than gameplay.

 

 

 

Jagex also has to keep in check that their trial version doesn't give a wrong impression of things to do on P2P: to me the F2P version doesn't give a good representation anymore of what you can expect on P2P. Jagex has to keep in mind that it needs to stand out somehow, amongst all the other games available to potential customers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So, in short, Jagex doesn't benefit from giving F2P updates at all with their current F2P playerbase. It may benefit from giving F2P updates for a future playerbase. They don't benefit at all either from too many people turning away from F2P after only a few days of playing.

 

 

 

Do they currently have problems attracting fresh blood to F2P? No, I don't think so. Could they have trouble in the future if they leave F2P unattended/not-updated for too long ? I'd say so.

[sour_tacos]

 

I DO think that F2P could use a few more updates. Not as many as P2P, but after all, Runescape would have no business without F2P. Every P2P you see today probably started out as a F2P tempted by the goods that P2P has to offer. I, myself, is one of them. I am currently between subscriptions, but I must, P2P is as good as it looks from the other side of the fence. But would it really kill Jagex to give the other fraction of their business a little perk every now and then? Maybe a new quest this month, in a couple months maybe release a new item or skill. Its like this. Say you own a dry cleaning business. Half of your profits come from rich guys who bring in their suits. They pay the most money, so you give them foot massages and free martinis when they enter their luxury side of the store. The average joes who come in to get their shirts cleaned get nothing too special on their side of the shop. Maybe a holiday freebie every once in a blue moon, but definetly not as much as the rich guys. The average guy business is dropping, hurting your profits. So what do you do to keep the average joes coming to your store? Give them a couple perks now and then. Maybe they'll be convinced to bring their suits in too. Get it? No? Thats what I expected. =;

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thats a horrible comparison. A dry cleaner giving people massages, what? And at that you also asume that because there isn't as many "average" people coming they are hurting profits. However, you forget to remember that the f2p players in runescape don't pay anything. The money made from advertisements is not a *big* deal, and unless all of f2p up and leaves there are always other players willing to play a game for free. Just like in your example (if we could use it) if they drycleaner let people take in their cloths for free in return for filling out a survey from a company, or something trivial like that. The dry cleaning service is not as good as if you would have paid, and is slower, but you got it for free. The money they make for helping these companys advertise/whatever is minimal, but it is money. There are always people who would want to have free drycleaning so even if someone figured "hey, this service sucks!" there would be 3 to take his place.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The fact is (as I have stated before) is that Jagex has no intention on having people stay f2p. No, they want them to get members. If the person up and leaves it doesn't give them a second thought because they will have plenty more joining every day to fullfil that persons place. Jagex benifits in no way from giving free to play updates, not at all.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

:wall: It wasn't supposed to be a good comparison. I was just coming up with PERKS. Well the people who don't pay have to contribuate SOMETHING. I mean, if you started an online game, and nobody was playing OR paying, that would be a problem. F2P people are just as important to Jagex as P2P people are.

[Nadril]

It wasn't supposed to be a good comparison. I was just coming up with PERKS. Well the people who don't pay have to contribuate SOMETHING. I mean, if you started an online game, and nobody was playing OR paying, that would be a problem. F2P people are just as important to Jagex as P2P people are.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Perhaps actualy try and come up with something logical for an argument?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And no, F2P is not as important as P2P is and never will be. It's bait and as far as it is concerned it is good enough bait.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Imean, if you started an online game, and nobody was playing OR paying, that would be a problem

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well, duh? Thank you captain obvoius. However as I always explained there will always be more people to play f2p and more people who will convert to p2p. Companys lose customers every day, it is nothing

 

 

 

new. A free to play player leaving the game because of the lack of updates is not a problem because there are more players that are joining and who will play.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The point is if you run out of content in f2p you will want to join p2p. Many more will join earlier than that but the idea stands. You don't give f2p more content when you are hoping they will go through what the game has and want more.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also, in reference to dutch: More != Better impression. It only takes a short time to get your impression on what the game is like. I would go as far to say that within a week you can pretty much decide if you like the idea of the game or not. You do not need a lot of content in f2p because chances are if someone isn't going to get members after they do a lot of the current content they won't after they get a new quest / whatever.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also, imbalances are a different story in its self and I cant really comment on it not knowing the state of the game right now.

[dutchdreams]

Also, in reference to dutch: More != Better impression. It only takes a short time to get your impression on what the game is like. I would go as far to say that within a week you can pretty much decide if you like the idea of the game or not. You do not need a lot of content in f2p because chances are if someone isn't going to get members after they do a lot of the current content they won't after they get a new quest / whatever.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also, imbalances are a different story in its self and I cant really comment on it not knowing the state of the game right now.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

More quality = better impression. Better graphics, better playability, more things to choose to do gives a better first impression. After a week, people should be aware that once they pay, they get a game lightyears different from F2P. If people throw away the trial version after a week, they will not be sufficiently enough aware how much different/better the P2P game is compared to F2P (in my opinion).

 

 

 

They will have encountered a game that revolves around mostly on mining/fishing/woodcutting/combat and doing the odd quest. The later quests are so much better quality compared to the ones currently in F2P (story line, graphics, rewards). There is so much more diversity on P2P to make money, so much different items on it that fresh F2P won't know the existance of.

 

 

 

As I see it, as it is now, it's like testdriving a horse and carriage to decide on whether or not to buy a Rolls Royce. Make the test car a Mercedes and you get a better feel for what to expect of the Rolls.

 

 

 

Like I said before, it may not be a problem now to attract fresh F2P-ers, but may become in the future to keep them interested long enough (compared to what competitors have to offer) to get them hooked and start paying.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(the balance wasn't aimed at the actual item-balance for PvP combat triangle, it was just the balance that Jagex needs to keep between making an appealing appetizer and the main course)

[Nadril]

Yeh the combat ballance I was mentioning was from an earlier post in this thread.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Weather or not f2p has enough as it is is hard to tell. One of the problems is if we give them a mercadies to try out they might just keep that and not be pressured to want to upgrade to a "slightly better" model. It's a hard ballance but I think f2p has enough at the moment.

[r2-pleasent]

I would say Jagex should implement a few updates into F2P, but not for the usual reasons. I believe f2p is quite outdated, and its main purpose is to attract players towards the game, and have them become members. There needs to be several updates to f2p. Perhaps update the very first quests, such as Rune Mysteries, which are there to demonstrate to players what a quest is like in Runescape. The better these initial quests are, the more players will be drawn in by their trial version, which results in more members. A simple update like this would take less time than a Members one, and would likely generate much more business for the company.

[Baezal]

If F2P got an update, say a coal mine that is really close to a bank, wouldn't the coal prices go down for members? Both parties would benefit.

[Buckeyemange]

If F2P got an update, say a coal mine that is really close to a bank, wouldn't the coal prices go down for members? Both parties would benefit.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Only for buyers. Members trying to sell the coal they have would cause more of a problem. Buyers would be joyful, sellers angry. In fact, because members always have access to a good coal mine, this would hurt members, and only help F2P.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

F2P could now easily mine coal and buy it cheap.

[nightfire]

i'm a member and i say f2p should still get updates, but slow their updates to the point that they still think "omg, slow updates! i want members!"

[swampjedi]

But isn't that true now? They do get updates, just not very many and not very often.

[brave]

TO kam42705

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In your calculations on how much money is available to JaGex you missed out one very big expenditure - its called TAXATION. I would say that approximately 20 to 30% of the money coming in would go out again to the government.

[Dalcyte]

I like what's going atm. A few nice sized updates per year. I suspect a new quest this year maybe and a few more assorted things.

[ShakingBro]

Jagex says:

 

 

 

F2P is only a DEMO version of the game. So, they WILL get the occasional update, but the immense majority of updates will go to P2P, as they pay for extra benefits.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nuff' said.

[barnstormers]

1st of all, i am offended :evil: that you said some of us only have a few brain cells. LOL :lol: . But if you don't pay, you don't get new things. simple and short.

[Macmaster92]

I am Ptp. I think yes and no. If they got updates i think that maybe they should get 3 updates a year. Now if they are not happy with that then they just need to become a member.

[tyluke]

I am Ptp. I think yes and no. If they got updates i think that maybe they should get 3 updates a year. Now if they are not happy with that then they just need to become a member.

 

 

 

yes i agree with this partially.

 

 

 

we obviously agree as to why jagex cant be giving f2p many free updates and thats becasue they dont pay.

 

 

 

do not kid yourself you dont look at those stupid ads. either u play it or u dont. the only thing F2P needs right now is mabye a bit more bank space mabye the skill capes and if they are feelings really generous a new monster or quest. if you want a challenge join members if you dont have the money. i guss thats just tough

 

 

 

and you know what F2Pers. if you dont like it :o DONT PLAY

 

 

 

I dont think anyones holding you at gunpoint telling you to play.

 

 

 

if its that bad for updates DO...NOT...PLAY

 

 

 

i know im sounding bias as a members player but you know what. I am sastisfied for what my money pays for. that secuirty stronghold update was huge for F2P and serves as an execelent training area.

 

 

 

Lifes not perfect and people who are given less because they give out less complain because they do not understand the function of a barter society. i pay 5$ a month. i get benifits over a guy who doesnt pay 5$ a month. its the same in the real world with medicl insurace or any sort of aspect of life

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[WolfhunterXZ]

As it's been said, mostly no.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1) You don't pay, you don't get updates.

 

 

 

2) True, you "pay" somewhat buy CLICKING ads, but it's nowhere near the amount of paying $5 a month. (What, isn't it like 0.5cents or something per person clicking on the ad?)

 

 

 

3) In all honesty, I do believe F2P should get a few updates, a few a year (like 2-4). To keep them from whining to much, and not too many to make them *Bad word!* and moan for more because they get spoiled from the updates.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A few F2P updates is:

 

 

 

- Let them have that full last line of bankspace, and maybe add one more

 

 

 

- Maybe more armor

 

 

 

- Some more food (something that heals 16 like monkfish?) because the highest healing food they have is Swordfish (Heals 14).

 

 

 

- Maybe expand the F2P land a little.

 

 

 

- More monsters for them to train.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So, F2P I think obviously doesn't deserve loads of updates like the paying members (like me) get. But do deserve a few a year, just so there isn't any more annoying threads about why F2P does or doesn't deserve updates. :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's about it.