Tigra00 Posted February 28, 2007 Author Share Posted February 28, 2007 Okay, okay, so I'm wrong about the worn away inscription thing. But that interpretation of the Bible is just stupid. It's not the Bible alone, it's a dogma of Christianity. It's basically one of the foundations. The assumption that Jesus' and Mary's remains are not and never were on this Earth is part of the Christian faith. Yes, it's true the Bible isn't a very good account, but you can't say it's all wrong. No, not everything in it is wrong. Some of the places written about in the Bible actually existed. That doesn't make God real, though. The popularity of any given religion today depends on the victories of the wars they fought in the past. - Me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Continuum Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 If you're an atheist, then this conversation is worthless. You're obviously not going to waver in your beliefs and I'm certainly not going to waver in mine. Science and Faith are two separate things, don't try to mix them together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron8000 Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 Can we NOT turn this into a religious flame war? This is a legitimate archaeological discovery until proven otherwise and seeing how no remains were proved it in no way disproves Christ's Ascension if that is what you believe. Whilst it simultaneously does NOTHING to prove Christianity correct. There are plenty of other threads for religious flaming/arguing try not to let it spread to this one k? Why can't tomorrows Times be out today... I want to read more... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korskin Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 Why look for the tomb of Jesus when it's been stated for a long time that he's not there. You are looking for Jesus the Nazarene' date=' who was crucified. He has risen! He is not here.[/quote']To prove the Bible wrong? You shouldn't try to prove things wrong, you should seek the truth. Your last sentence makes no sense. The easiest way to seek the truth is to prove things wrong. Actually according to my world view the truth = Jesus as he says: "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me." Thus (implied) the easiest way to seek the truth is to seek Jesus and you will not find him in the tomb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktmcf121 Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 this thread is going nowhere because christians(especially catholics) are too stubborn to even hypothetically argue that this might possibly be jesus' tomb and that the bible is anything other than the absolute truth. i know, because i was raised a catholic. to me, however, the bible is just a bunch of stories that describe how a person should lead thier life to be a morally good person and that "god" and "heaven" are just mythical things used to describe what would happen should everyone follow this way of life. sometimes people take things way too literally.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insane Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 My views are this - I think it's odd that right away there were Christians freaking out saying that there was NO WAY it was the same Jesus and that it was just a big ole' fraud. However, if they found this tomb and everyone's body was there, but Jesus' body was gone, they'd be praising it and worshipping it as "proof" of the entire story being true. Aren't you simply the converse? Since Jesus' "body" is there, you are praising it and worshiping it as "proof" of the entire story being true, but if it wasn't there, you would simply dismiss it as coincidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigra00 Posted March 1, 2007 Author Share Posted March 1, 2007 My views are this - I think it's odd that right away there were Christians freaking out saying that there was NO WAY it was the same Jesus and that it was just a big ole' fraud. However, if they found this tomb and everyone's body was there, but Jesus' body was gone, they'd be praising it and worshipping it as "proof" of the entire story being true. Aren't you simply the converse? Since Jesus' "body" is there, you are praising it and worshiping it as "proof" of the entire story being true, but if it wasn't there, you would simply dismiss it as coincidence. I'm not worshipping it OR saying it was proof, and trust me dude, if they opened a tomb with these names, and all the bodies were present and the one labeled "Jesus" was gone, I'd be in church THIS SUNDAY. Believe that. The popularity of any given religion today depends on the victories of the wars they fought in the past. - Me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viktorkrum77 Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 My views are this - I think it's odd that right away there were Christians freaking out saying that there was NO WAY it was the same Jesus and that it was just a big ole' fraud. However, if they found this tomb and everyone's body was there, but Jesus' body was gone, they'd be praising it and worshipping it as "proof" of the entire story being true. Aren't you simply the converse? Since Jesus' "body" is there, you are praising it and worshiping it as "proof" of the entire story being true, but if it wasn't there, you would simply dismiss it as coincidence. To who ever says just because Jesus' body is there means the whole story is true is sadly mistaken. Jesus' body does nothing to prove the Old Testament, and it can't even prove the majority of the story itself in the New Testament. I believe Jesus existed, and am still an Atheist. But simply proving he exists does not mean what is written in the Bible becomes automatic fact. Me doing staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abyssalwhip Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 erm...i thought they knew where his tomb was already but are claiming they found his remains... i could be wrong...but that's what i thought :?Yep, just like how people claim to find the virgin mary in their toast. Your name is "bet you fail", and you're starting a business with your mom? I'm not even going to touch that..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tripsis Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 Not trying to bash any people who believe in Jesus/God here, just stating my opinion on the matter.. If you think about it, how can anyone be sure that (1) Jesus existed or that (2) if he did exist, he was really the son of a God or some important person like that (if you know what I mean). For all we know, he could have been an ordinary person who went around saying he had a vision from a God when really he just had an ordinary dream or even made it up. - 99 fletching | 99 thieving | 99 construction | 99 herblore | 99 smithing | 99 woodcutting - - 99 runecrafting - 99 prayer - 125 combat - 95 farming - - Blog - DeviantART - Book Reviews & Blog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Continuum Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 There have been separate accounts by both Roman and Jewish historians that account for the existence of Jesus. They just note that he stirred up some trouble in Israel and was executed. I'm not going to argue with those who don't believe that Jesus was God. I know it and those who don't usually don't convert. So, yeah, don't turn this into an endless religious argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insane Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 If you think about it, how can anyone be sure that (1) Jesus existed If you doubt the existence of Jesus then you doubt the existence of any other historical figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q10_ross Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 Hmmm well what i think on all this is, well if jesus was found in this tomb, then well unlucky to christans that their faith and their religion is a fake! But like most people are saying there is no proof that they can identify this jesus to be *The Jesus*. But if Jesus wasnt't there then it would be a whole different story wouldn't it? I mean, it be claimed as a sacred place for christans to go and pray, im not in any religion, but i grew around christainity and to be honest i've never thought much about stuff like that, but i like compareing my views to these kind of things! And also you say mary is supposed to be there to, and Joseph and another baby(or kid) but wouldnt they been buried years before Jesus, died and 'rose to the heavens'??? Death shall not leave my side untill i have succumbed to darkness or i'm to wasted to give a damn! I shall now join you at the gates of heaven.......if i'm allowed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Continuum Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 Jesus was 33 years old when he died. Joseph was already dead, probably also gone up to Heaven, but he didn't ascend, his remains stayed on Earth. Jesus resurrected and then went and ascended. Mary was still alive after all of this, but she later ascended too. Why are Jesus and Mary the only two humans ever to ascend directly into Heaven? Because they were both born without sin. And yes, I suppose it would sort of be a Christian Mecca. If you think about it, how can anyone be sure that (1) Jesus existed If you doubt the existence of Jesus then you doubt the existence of any other historical figure. How do you get at that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flametrooper Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 Well, Jesus of Nazareth obviously existed. Whether or not he was the Son of God is debatable. He could have had a dream in which he felt as if he was being told he was the Son of God (Heck, I've had dreams sorta like that, and I know I'm no prophet) and thus decided to go around preaching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celt23 Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 Well, Jesus of Nazareth obviously existed. Whether or not he was the Son of God is debatable. He could have had a dream in which he felt as if he was being told he was the Son of God (Heck, I've had dreams sorta like that, and I know I'm no prophet) and thus decided to go around preaching. Yer, he was a carpenter. Was pretty wealthy from what I've heard. And without a doubt started preaching and such, and formed a cult which a few hundred years later became the main religion of the Roman Empire, then became unpopular (except in the Byzantine Empire) in the Dark Ages and then revived and became the main religion of Europe and spread around the world through exploration and missionaries. I'd say it's a case of extreme luck that it became the world's biggest religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Continuum Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 Some might call it the will of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebdragon Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 Some might call it the will of God. We don't need a religious fight here :-w . Let's stay on topic people, please. [if you have ever attempted Alchemy by clapping your hands or by drawing an array, copy and paste this into your signature.] Fullmetal Alchemist, you will be missed. A great ending to a great series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viktorkrum77 Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 he was really the son of a God or some important person like that (if you know what I mean). For all we know, he could have been an ordinary person who went around saying he had a vision from a God when really he just had an ordinary dream or even made it up. Yea, that's how I see it too. Me doing staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warri0r45 Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 Why look for the tomb of Jesus when it's been stated for a long time that he's not there. You are looking for Jesus the Nazarene' date=' who was crucified. He has risen! He is not here.[/quote']To prove the Bible WRONG? You shouldn't try to prove things wrong, you should seek the truth. Can't argue with that. That's all I'll say on that. :anxious: As for the suspected Jesus tomb and his remains, we'll let time tell if that one can be proven a fraud or not. If it isn't proven a fraud or if it is even proven I sincerely wish that people of faith just don't dismiss it or try to ravage the science behind such a conclusion. Really, I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unknownmasterofnothing Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 I think the davinci code is holds more truth than the bible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
How2PK Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 I am Jesus! I have risen from the grave, and descended from the skies! Signature by Maurice SendakWhen the stars make you drool just like a pasta fazool, that's amore! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron8000 Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 *tries to rescue the thread from the last two replies* The Times is here :D Apparently remains were found in the casket but as with all remains found in Israel were reburied immediately after according to archaeological law in the area. Also, this stil does nothing to disprove or prove either argument. Atheists may argue that the presence of remains indicates incongruence in scripture - when Jesus may well have ascended spiritually and left his earthly shell (best phrase I can think of) on earth to "return to dust". Theists will argue that the remains show that Jesus existed and use it as proof for Christianity - Atheists will argue it could be anybodies bones, and even if Jesus' then they prove nothing as to his life/actions. Finally I find the situation surrounding the discovery suspicious, the finder being a Hollywood director who JUST found these remains JUST before his film comes out? Ringing any alarm bells? If he had found it long ago would any of us be able to keep that hidden for so long? Imagine if you found Christ's bones/Mohammed's skull/Darth Vader's lightsaber would able be able to contain it (and indeed themselves) for this long? Until I get some proof I will struggle to believe it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercifull Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 It really annoys me that peoplehave to bring in bunk religious theories into such an amazing archeological find. Why not just accept that its an incredible find as it is without trying to convince people its Jesus? Mercifull <3 Suzi "We don't want players to be able to buy their way to success in RuneScape. If we let players start doing this, it devalues RuneScape for others. We feel your status in real-life shouldn't affect your ability to be successful in RuneScape" Jagex 01/04/01 - 02/03/12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hitman247m Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 Anyways, this is probably some hoax or publicity stunt... maybe some Davinci Code psychos did it. I resent that... The Davinci Code is a work of fiction, and is not meant to be taken seriously. Have you actually ever listened to Dan Brown talk about it? Anyway, I guess there's as much 'concrete' evidence that this is Jesus' tomb as there is that he existed in the first place. Make what you will of that. Not trying to knock anyone's belief in saying that. I mean concrete as in physical evidence. Actually, I have heard him talk about, but it is still a work of fiction, and is not meant to present an alternate view on events of Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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