Slumps in clans.

Lately some clans are experiencing so called slumps. A slump is a period of time where a clan goes trough some rough moments, but doesn't die, let's say just pull less people & have some internal issues. It's a phenomenon that not only happens in lower ranked clans, also top clans have a lot of internal problems now & then.

Let's create a virtual situation:

Clan X has problems:

- people don't listen to the staff

- some people want to PK more

- some people want to PK less

- basicly a lot of members leave because they are unhappy

How would you, saying you are a clan leader, deal with it? Would you do it the 'soft' way (trying to make a lot of posts, giving out a lot of warnings if people don't show up to events) or the 'hard' way (kicking members who make problems, demoting staff that isn't cooperative) ?

And do you think it's best to handle it the soft way or the hard way? Or somewhere inbetween?

Personally I am all in favor of the "hard way". I have been clan staff in the past and I have no respect for people who don't want to do the bare minimum for their clan.

Slump to me is just pulling less than what your clans is used to pulling. Internal problems could be a cause of a slump, but it's not a slump in itself.

We faced that problem last summer. A lot of members wanted to do more bandos events while others wanted more wars. It was oblivious that some people were in the clan only for the bandos events and couldn't care less for our wars. It got so bad that we were pulling 20% to wars even though we only had one war per week.

So on that summer we decided to ban all bandos events and to do 2-3 mandatory wars per week. This dropped our ML from 80 all the way down to 30sh. The funny thing is that we were pulling just about the same amount (this time 40%). The only real difference was that we had less inter clan fighting and we were more stable.

I am not saying that a clan leader needs go the "hard" way, but instead he needs to be clear as to what he wants the clan to be so that the ones that dont like it can find happiness in another clan.

Hard way, some people will always be dead weight. Get rid of em now or get rid of em later, the only difference is the damage they cause.

I am not saying that a clan leader needs go the "hard" way, but instead he needs to be clear as to what he wants the clan to be so that the ones that dont like it can find happiness in another clan.

Amen. =D>

That sums up my views pretty much. Of course, it has to be combined with a nice portion of listening to your members, but they have to be aware what kind of clan they are joining. Goals, visions and aspirations.

Going the "soft way" is only prolonging the problem and making it worse.

The worst thing for a leader to do is to not take a stand and let clan members fight it out in the cc and on the forums. In the end the leader has to consider the principles the clan was founded on, and the feelings of the majority of the members, then give every member an ultimatum: My way or the highway.

I tend to follow people's orders, and value other staff's opinion's so much I don't do anything without someone telling me to, but in cases like these, the leader truly needs to step up.

Hard way is what I would go with. You are the damn leader, and people damn well listen to you. Unfortunately, if you just say "Please Stop.", no one will even care about your authority. You have to take out the foolish, most of the time they were just useless anyways. I'd much rather see those people get kicked that are causing the disturbance than seeing everyone nice leave.

No one wants to pull a His Lordship (ie WHEN YOU RAID UNDER HIM HE IS YOUR GOD, etc). No offense, WG :wub:

You've got to balance stern and understanding attitudes. Some people you consider 'dead weight' right now might only be in that situation temporarily. Oftentimes, instead of outright kicking them, if you talk with them they're usually okay with temporarily taking a 'retired' position.

The problem with the 'hard way' scenario is that most people enforcing that rule are VERY MUCH caught up in 'short run' results, which could be disastrous. Yes everyone wants victories and success NOW, but if you still want to be around as a clan this time next year, you've got to think ahead.

What's a small losing streak compared to losing a reputation and community that you've worked so hard to build just because you wanted INSTANT RESULTS.

No one wants to pull a His Lordship (ie WHEN YOU RAID UNDER HIM HE IS YOUR GOD, etc). No offense, WG :wub:

 

 

 

You've got to balance stern and understanding attitudes. Some people you consider 'dead weight' right now might only be in that situation temporarily. Oftentimes, instead of outright kicking them, if you talk with them they're usually okay with temporarily taking a 'retired' position.

 

 

 

The problem with the 'hard way' scenario is that most people enforcing that rule are VERY MUCH caught up in 'short run' results, which could be disastrous. Yes everyone wants victories and success NOW, but if you still want to be around as a clan this time next year, you've got to think ahead.

 

 

 

What's a small losing streak compared to losing a reputation and community that you've worked so hard to build just because you wanted INSTANT RESULTS.

Don't slump or you will have ....NOTHING....LEFT!

I agree with you but at the same time, you have to tighten up. I think slumps can in fact benefit a clan if they are reacted too in the right way. For example, SE had a bit of a slump a few months back, and basically because of the the memberlist was trimmed down significantly, so now we have more members of higher quality.

Most clans in Runescape won't ever pull more than 90 members to an event.

Thus with low numbers like that and dedicated staff, it will be pretty darn easy to find out why half of the members aren't coming to events. Through that I could see 20 out of the 45 being kicked for simply not caring, not being active..etc, for a two week evaluation period.

The other 25 however will be entirely situational and dependent on several factors like clan staff personalities and expectations, members expectations of others, prior history with the clan...etc.

I'd say it would take a week or two to go through all of that, and then there'd probably only be 10 left who are in 'conflicting situations' in life which provides valid reasoning behind their inactivity/lack of contribution.

That's how I would deal with the slump. Question the inactives/non-contributors, discuss with appropriate staff on actions for each reasoning provided, then get more personal with whoever is left, and then give 'special' cases out to members who deserve it or need it. But after so long it's a kick/suspension from events (for a long time).

Another way is to do fun events like monster hunts, or mini-games (like soulwars, and get tons of zeal for everyone), or do skill races, or random races that include like catching 5000 lobs first in a day...etc. To raise moral and bonds.

After that though it can only last so long before things pick up again.

If it still doesn't pick up, then it's definitely not the clan, but the game that is the problem.

It's impossible to create a scheme to fix a slump that will work in every clan. All clans are different and something that might inspire success in one clan will be met by comtempt in another.

However, to beat a slump - a really big slump - the Leaders need to become proactive annd make sure they share the responsibilities among the ranks to show transparency. Cut the dead weight members so that your memberlist is more trimmed yet more active, and organise a large amount of high profile fights, first starting against weaker clans and building your way up. With a combination of consistent warring performances and effective recruiting, it is possible to escape a slump.

My brief ideas.

Another question: And what about the members?

How would you - as a member - respond to a slump? Would you be the person who steps up and asks for acitivty/positivity, or would you hold yourself on the background until it all calmed down and then act?

Another question: And what about the members?

 

 

 

How would you - as a member - respond to a slump? Would you be the person who steps up and asks for acitivty/positivity, or would you hold yourself on the background until it all calmed down and then act?

As a member and as staff I've always been the hardnose, I would step up.

Another question: And what about the members?

 

 

 

How would you - as a member - respond to a slump? Would you be the person who steps up and asks for acitivty/positivity, or would you hold yourself on the background until it all calmed down and then act?

I would try to find the problem, tell the staff what the problem is, and then wait.

I usually don't ahve much power in many clans lol.

I'm in a position in Gladz where I have the ability to make real contributions, so I'd step it up and make sure that 8 years of tradition doesn't fade away from Runescape.

As clanleader you can certainly account for certain slumps... This is currently the season of final exams and people going on holidays...

For the actual slumps as meant by the topic starter, all I can say is that you have to have a few aces up your sleeve... Dont pull out the biggest measures (which are different for each clan) you can every slight downturn you think is there...

I track my clan activity in 3 ways...

- THIS shows how much activity there is (and has been) on our FORUMS and SITE.

- We are the #2 active channel on an IRC network, with #1 and #3 both being entire games on themselves... The number of lines spoken in each of those 3 channels can be compared easily with a simple command, and the difference between us and the other channels gives me some idea of activity.

- And recently, to our IRC channel, we have added CLANTRACK (irc.swiftirc.net -> #clantrack), where I can check if levels and averages have gone up, combined with Runehead's total XP amount is a good help :)

A dead given is always the amount of people that show up to an event, but usually everyone online who doesnt have their hands full, isnt about to rush out, or doesnt have membership, turns up :)

As clanleader you can certainly account for certain slumps... This is currently the season of final exams and people going on holidays...

 

 

 

For the actual slumps as meant by the topic starter, all I can say is that you have to have a few aces up your sleeve... Dont pull out the biggest measures (which are different for each clan) you can every slight downturn you think is there...

 

 

 

I track my clan activity in 3 ways...

 

 

 

- THIS shows how much activity there is (and has been) on our FORUMS and SITE.

 

- We are the #2 active channel on an IRC network, with #1 and #3 both being entire games on themselves... The number of lines spoken in each of those 3 channels can be compared easily with a simple command, and the difference between us and the other channels gives me some idea of activity.

 

- And recently, to our IRC channel, we have added CLANTRACK (irc.swiftirc.net -> #clantrack), where I can check if levels and averages have gone up, combined with Runehead's total XP amount is a good help :)

 

 

 

A dead given is always the amount of people that show up to an event, but usually everyone online who doesnt have their hands full, isnt about to rush out, or doesnt have membership, turns up :)

I didn't even know about those first two tracking methods. I really have to give you kudos for that....

How would you, saying you are a clan leader, deal with it? Would you do it the 'soft' way (trying to make a lot of posts, giving out a lot of warnings if people don't show up to events) or the 'hard' way (kicking members who make problems, demoting staff that isn't cooperative) ?

I think making a lot of posts is senseless since 80% people don't really care about it, even if they say that they agree. In my opinion the only way to get out of slump is kicking undedicated, unloyal and inactive members, then you are sure that the rest of members are people you can trust that would help you getting your clan out of slump.

hard way for sure

As a member of BK I think I have a pretty strange view on slumping as while it does happen in BK quite often it is never something to be worried about because BK's core has been established for so long that it always stops before getting too bad (eg. we dropped past 70 people for the first time last time we slumped and yet there was very little panic, we were just getting on with things and we are now back above 80 people). I think you need to make it obvious what you expect of your members, there is no point being hard on them though, I wouldn't say you should be either of those 2 options, I would keep doing what has been done and if there is a general dislike for what is happening then look at changing it. If it is simply a matter of someone with some influence leaving and people following that person then I don't think it is worth acting upon past reassuring people as it should just be a short term thing. If you have a split then you need to try to appease both sides and if that is not possible then decisions need to be made about the path that will be taken.

I would probably lean towards a soft way but I would not have people take advantage of it.

My method would be somewhere in the middle, having been an events co-ordinator/leader in a previous clan, that was my method, somewhere in the middle. If an event had been planned and next to no one turned up, I'd tell them what they missed out on. One example of the few of those was a Castle Wars event when I was the only one there, I didn't cancel the event but carried on. At the end of that I told the clan that if they don't want to attend events either sod off or make your own.

If I were a clan leader then my method would be along the above. Make them aware and try to entice them, if that does not work then I'd get the trimmer out ^^

There are some more reasons for a slump tbh, wich you can't controle.

I got some examples from dutch clanning =P~ .

The TOP 5 was locked back at the good times, Rdc #1, Ak #2, 2M #3, RT #4 and Luna #5.

Ak died, the members where spreaded into lots of clans.

Faith(#6) Died and RT got a big member boost, most Faith joined RT.

Luna died, Lots of them went to Rt&Rdc, almost everyone wich gave Rt&Rdc a membersboost.

Rt died, everyone joined RDC, wich made RDC clearly the #1 with a big gap between the #2.

Rdc had 130+ on their main ml and lots of fa's/retireds at this point.

The most succesfull time of Rdc, with the famous uncapped run in against TR.

After couple of months, Rt reopened wich made 50+ members leave RDC. A big hit for them, but that wasn't everything.

More members started to leave after each other, wich made the gap between #1 and #2 close. Now days Rdc got a memberlist of 65 inc Fa's.

That shows that slumping isnt in controle of the staff.

But there is also a kind of slump wich doesnt happen often.

There is always a "favorite" ranker in a clan.

Lots of people join/stay (in) the clan because of this person.

The "favorite" doesnt agree with the staff, gets demoted or whatever and leaves.

Wich makes 9/10 of his "fans" go after him.

Happend in Dutch Generation.

I don't think there is a favourite in every clan. Talking from experience in BK you might lose a couple of people with 1 person but there is no one that would take all the members as has been proven with leaders leaving in the recent past and ending up coming back because their new clan wasn't the same.

I agree though that there are things that are out of peoples control. If you have a split in the clan for instance, it is a horrible situation to be in and generally if it is a big enough deal then you will lose people. Again there was a problem within BK a while back about people wanting to pk alot more than we were doing and people not wanting to do any more and it led to a split and eventually most of the warrers went to clans like DF and Corr. I think there are so many things that can cause a slump, 1 disgruntled member can lower morale and if a bandwagon is started it can be difficult to stop.

BK is a bit unique in terms of slumping though because we probably have so many retired members (our ml including retireds is nearly 200 people) and those retireds help in bad times as most have been in the clan for over 5 years and give the clan a core that is very tough to break down even if one of the "favourites" leaves the clan. We also seem to slump and rise at our own pace and so at the moment we are on the rise, gaining members and getting better at warring :D

Mmmm as a member of staff in all the clans I have been involved in I believe you need to lay down the law.

Tell members where this clan is going, what you want from them and make it clear what your clan is about, after this its time to go in hard and anyone causing issues will be politely asked to leave, if not they will be kicked.

Dump the trash.

Mmmm as a member of staff in all the clans I have been involved in I believe you need to lay down the law.

 

 

 

Tell members where this clan is going, what you want from them and make it clear what your clan is about, after this its time to go in hard and anyone causing issues will be politely asked to leave, if not they will be kicked.

 

 

 

Dump the trash.

I agree completely. People who don't want to make an effort are only hurting the clan anyway.