Kata_Phfract__the_slayer

This has been floating around in my head for a while, and recently pushed by the tip.it times I decided to post this. Note I will try to cover both f2p and p2p pvp and pvm; it would be of benefit if your posts tried to cover more then just say p2p-pvp. In rs today, you have melee. Supposedly strong vs. range and weak vs. mage (its overpowered, by how much is up to debate though) You also have range, able to shoot magers even when bined/frozen, with high mage defence anyway. And mage, able to bind/freeze melee with a good deal of accuracy bonus and stop them from even attacking them, but I fear for any mage that lets a meleer get close. It all works on paper, each class has there armour defence set to be high vs. there strong class, and low vs. there weak class. And the pure physical range and stuff like that working to help the triangle. fast forward to a mmorpg with humans as controllers: you got meleers stuffed to the brim in black d hide and mage levels, rangers blasting the turd out of either class with d bows, magers being balanced up to around 50 combat then falling behind very rapidly, only to shoot back up to the point of being overpowered with ice barrage, the entire time constantly costing more then a meleer or ranger could ever do. Should jagex even bother? (Combat triangle?) Should each class me made, more or less, the same as to remove/soften any loopholes? (Its hard to get an apple, banana and a pineapple and get them all to look the same) Should we stick to what we got and try to balance it, much like how jagex is trying now? we KNOW jagex can get it right, in d'nearing the combat triangle is finely tuned to the point of near perfection, each class has an advantage vs. the one it should, disadvantage vs. the one it shouldnt, and each classes armour has negative attack on each other class. now its inevitable that a player will find a hole, maybe something like fighting undead magers, a meleer can just equip leather and a salve ammy to cover up the loss of attack stats, but this but a small hole and one could call it being smart. It just depends on how big the hole is, for now they re just too big (please no jokes). Should jagex even bother: as I see it, jagex are really trying with updates like SoL and mage damage boosting staffs and pots as to mention some from only 1 side of the triangle. But is this effort misplaced? Should we have a combat triangle? Cant each class = each other class? There is no denying, this will be a huge update and huge change to the game, this would be a lot of effort to remove the triangle, although I did raise this question I do feel that the effort placed in to removing the triangle could be placed in to keeping and fixing it. It depends though, how imbedded is the triangle in the game, would removing it fix anything? Or make things worse? Should each class be made the same: a major problem with the triangle today "its hard to get an apple, banana and a pineapple and get them all to look the same". Each class is fundamentally different, One using stacks of expensive inventory sapping ammo shooting at a distance, with all sorts of ad on effects like binds or blood barrage. Other differences are thing such as lack of defence, and having defence based of mage levels rather then defence levels. Not to mention relying entirely on there low defence armour for accuracy. one using often expensive equipped ammo shooting at a distance (although not as far as mage), with moderate defence armour that adds massive accuracy boost's, sometimes having side effects with bolts and the attractor. I consider range sort of the mid way between melee and mage. And the last class, having some really heavy defence with the highest max hits (besides addy bolts), not relying on there armour for there accuracy at all allowing them to equip range or mage armour at will, having no range (but halberd), sometimes with side effects like guthins. Lastly, they have 3 different styles of attack (stab, slash and crush) totally unlike the other 2 classes. Even I didnt realise just how different they are! Only now that I finished typing that do I see. Basically "its hard to get an apple, banana and a pineapple and get them all to look the same", but its easy to get an apple, orange lemon to look the same. Now each class has things on common, more or less, but overall that is a bunch of data that just is incompatible with each other. Although I can only say the "data" is incompatible, the classes them selfs might be different (d'nearing comes to mind). To the point anyway, it is hard to balance what is by nature incompatible with each other, if each class was say forced to be more like each other with methods such as: Equipping runes like arrows, Mage armour being given defence, Melee armour given slightly less defence and giving them good accuracy stats and compensate by lowering weapon stats, Range armour given melee penalties, Each class made as to close to each other in max hits and effects, the list goes on. This would keep the triangle and put balance in to he system by default (SoL helps balance... for those who use it), and help to flatten out any unbalance. Or is this too far? Each class MUST be different, or why bother having classes if the only difference is the name of the weapons used? I guess its a trade-off, gain balance lose unquietness, is that trade off worth it then? And as always, the way we are going now. Keep what we got, just put some optional balance in to the system, and some forced. Its a simple idea, on paper, but we all know that the combat triangle on paper was the same. Although this may work I feel it is not the way to go or at least not alone, it may solve something, but it clearly cant sole everything (well no idea can solve everything but you get the idea). for a forth time I say, "its hard to get an apple, banana and a pineapple and get them all to look the same", now you may all paint them the same colour but you can still tell them apart, nothing but a superficial try at making them look the same, Yes you could mash them in a pulp and then paint them, yea they would look the same, but how is that different to above, and making each class the same? Removing the difference in a way that destroyed what you had at first? Now nearing the end of this post, lets look to the future. In 5 years time suppose jagex fixed the triangle, now looking back to now what would you think, was it any better? Worse? Same? I guess it will be the case of jagex thinking to them selfs, "wtf where we doing?!" I end this saying, do we need what we have... or dont have?

when fighting dragernoths, plain and simple, what one is faster kills?

ass i see it, its a risk v reward thing. skilling is safe, you can mine in the wildy or stuff like that but oiverall its safe. boss hunting could get you killed at any point, so basicly it should be higher income (take away deaths). its just fallen apart becouse boss hunting is too safe and too much money relitive to skilling.

just comeing to post a grats! as if your art was not obviusly awesome enough, now your name is on the front page specal mention! you truely deserve all the praise your gona get :thumbsup:

something thats been bugging me for a while now, what is the point of shops with no stock??!! i can understand b4 the shop updates, but now, as i cant buy anything from another player via shop, i can only sell stuff to them. think about the gem trade in al-karid, he sells cut and uncut gems up to dimond. and by sells i mean buys. why would i sell my gems to him when the ge price is sevreal times higher, so even if i wanted to sell my gems (want the crafting xp) that gem trader would never get any of them. if thouse gems where so worthless as to be worth selling to him, i probably would just low alc them with my lumby ring insted. imo shops should buy things baced of ge price, like the rouge. ok end rant. shops have there use in rs, many items that otherwise would cost a bajillion are cept low and in control becouse you can get them in a shop (dragon items such as dagger, scimy and baxe are what im talking about) take away the curent inflation, the dragon scimy never costed anything far from 99k to 101k, and even now its only 130ish k gp. the gen store, although its never gona recover from the GE is still a viable option for getting rid of random junk that wont sell on the GE. and lastly, profit, some items are in so much demand that even the shop price has truble keeping it under controll. vials, need i say more? shops in rs are by no way a "thing of the past", but i will not deny that thay are out dated. just be glad dragon daggers dont cost 500k! :-P

i dont really know what boss is the hardest as im not really much of a boss hunter, thay all are killable when equiped corectly. so, lets think of it form this point of vew, if there was a boss tourniment, what one would win? the kbd would die fast vs most of the bosses but that dragon fire (note, no boss hold an anti dragon shield) would really be able to deal some damage. i can see the kbd surviveing a while (but not winning) vs the corp becous of his high magic defence, remeber corp does not care for armour defence and the kbd does not have any!. the corp, although its attacks are not overly huge, man that thing has enough hp to survive allmost anything the others can throw at it, not to mention the dark core. the kq is strong indeed, thouse prayers will messup the other bosses attacks, i can see the corp haveing truble on the first form but with the corps and the cores melee the kq's first form should die, after that is gona be easy. jad probably would be hitting the highest of all the bosses, but his i would say his hp isent enough to alow a win, prorbabaly pwn the kbd but corps shear endurance and kq's prayer would end that. the draganoth kings (lets assume thay allways fight as a team), i can see that dragon fire being a problem, thay have all 3 combat styles so the kq should not be too hard (unles the kq's mage attack kills rex b4 the first form dies...), i simply cant see them geting anywhere with the corp. truth be told, i dont know where to put them. so my vote: corp > kq > jad > kbd ya know, thats basicly the same as anyone would say in it was boss v player as normal.

i remember fruogo-scape, i would never play it but one of friends did. for sake of laznyness, in that game you can type "::home::" to tely to lumbrige at any point, anywhere instantly. while playing real rs i saw some type that and realise that it does not work. got some lolz out of that! but on topic, private servers are nuthing but unsafe rip-offs of rs. if i could i would stop people playing them (or at least just the bad/iligle ones) but i cant, and thay dont really negitively efect rs. some of them dont even care about laws (more so then normal...), talking about frogo again, got sued and shut down by jagex. sometime the next week someone remade it :thumbdown: eh, if thay dont brake corpyright laws, dont try to steal acount details, and dont contain any form of malwere (can you find one thats fits all 3?), besides pointlessly makeing the game to easy and buggy. i got nuthing agaisnt them.

in rs every player is right handed (or, just taught to use the right hand for combat). yet thay still use there left hand to pull the string. now that you mention it thats is strange, i dont really have any reson as to why besides jagex mised that one.

hmm, i just was makeing my point, even if it was jubberish to anyone but me. if what i sayd was stupid, fair's fair that someone says so. but still no need to be that rude about it. anyway, lets stay on topic b4 this becomes a flame war.

firstly i would like to say, jagex loses money from bots. b4 the 2007(?) anti RWT meshures, the cost of the bots was so much higher then the money for memebrship becouse bots used stolen bank acounts to pay. falconry botters, a problem. other botts, a bigger problem. as i see it, boting, in any form (even if the makers of the game say its ok) is morally wrong. if the makers of the game say its ok its becouse the flood of bots is unstopable or thay them selfs are botters. obviusly none of thouse resons would make a good argument. i dont care if another player has higher stats then me via boting, i do care if another player has higher stats then me without boting. besides, people who buy or rent bots... your giveing money to people who brake the law. whats the difrence between paying for a bot and buying drugs of a gangster?! *hints back to stolen bank acounts* yes thay may keep some products low in price but i dont see that as a reson to compensate for even 1% of the damage thay do, and besides if the price goes up more people will get the items them selfs so its not like removeing bots = removeing 100% of the suply of botted items.

It's magic :thumbsup: It magically makes it so that you suck at magic, but can block stuff as though it were made of metal. Also, for some reason, it's rather holy. :blink: i knew someone would say its magic... well at least the holey part works.

i just realised... how does a shield thats 90% air have 46 ranged defence? :blink:

WHAT IN THE NAME OF ZAMORAK??!! not only was that painfull to whatch, but painfully funny at the same time! :thumbsup: i think you might of invented a runescape spesific rick-roll...

WTF?! the best mage outfit a few years back vs today. difrence? twice mage accuracy, half melee defence... stoped saveing air runes and started saveing water runes... and with the monk robe, 4 less prayer. man f2p mage is messed up! ontopic, nice short thread. an insightfull look in to the history of f2p mage from the users point of vew. although not too much descusion value.

if i may: what do thay, well, do? its obvius thay damage your oponent but besides that i cant find anything about them. do thay awto fire? max hit? ect anyway, i says it was good but a few changes where needed. despite i hate the update thats just becouse the rewards are sweet but i hate cwars to no end.

ohhh joy! <_< a minigame activity i totaly hate with no use, has now become an activeity i hate with awesome rewards. :wall: still, good update even if i dislike it. cw needed an update although the rewards are still very biased to melee, and now more so.

So a fight was easy when you did it not as it was intended? Well imagine that! when i did dream mentor i used a whip n sharks, nuthing fancy like barageing or godswords, dident even use super pots... ...i could of done that quest in full bronze jugeing by how easy it was. the first boss fight died in no time, used about 5 sharks, the rest combined = about half of the first monster in damage delt to me. how in runescape do people say this quest is hard??!! yes i was 105cb at the time and someone trying the quest at 80cb or so would have a chalenge but nuthing unbetable. where going off topic it apears.

monkey maddness... ohhh how i both hated and loved that quest. although by the avrige quest standard, its hard, really hard, that still means its easy :mellow: theese days (noteably cos of BoB's and run update) it will be a walk in the park to anyone willing to try, the only real things to note is the shear length of the cave with the gnome mage and not to melee the boss monster (i used melee but i only survived by praying mage and running up, attack once, hit or not, and runing back as not to let it melee you. trust me, use range) theese days quest are eather too hard via luck (desert treshure chest anyone?) or to easy via guide. in both cases ofen being long winded run-fests more then quest. do any of you ever run as much as you did in legends quest? well as to not look like im ranting, monkey maddness is an easy quest, long yes, many confuseing and deadly things yes, but hard - truely hard - the type of hard that is a bult in chalenge that no random number genorator could copy? no. this post would end up a lot longer but i gtg

thanks you 2 :thumbup:

first of all, please name every way to gain chewd and mangled bones besides killing mithrill dragons, if there are any (i dont want to fight them :ohnoes: ) secondly, does mangled bones work for the frem diary task. thanks in advance :thumbsup: edit: WOOT! finished the diary, no need for anyone to post now.

with a bit of history, i dislike 2 side fights. so thay got me from the start when thay went on about "why not have 3 sides?" lol i dont know yet but i will probably join The Reavers: Rogues of chaos, change and enthusiasm. but i know i wont join the lords. just a thought... what if one side starts to get too strong? i remeber from AQ and the fire army had probably 3 or 4 times as many players joined as the second strongest team. topic for another thread?

(note, this probably is better in the debate form but isent that form gona be removed anyway) something i realised, one of the new items from dungeonearing is the Scroll of augury. Unlocks the Augury prayer when used, which boosts your magic attack by 20% and magical defence by 25%. oh fine and dandy, a new prayer to help mage along :thumbup: hay wait a second, +25% to mage defence? to think of how this is inportent, lets say a mage and a meleeer is dueling, same level, both normal prayer books ect. at the start of the duel the mage prays pro-melee, and meleer prays pro-mage. the mage prays Augury prayer to boost his mage attacks. the meleer prays Augury prayer to boost his mage defence. end efect, both useing prayer at the same rate (check needed), but the meleer has a +5% boost in mage defence over the mages boost in accuracy. does this seam fair? why should a mage prayer help the meleer more then the mage? end of teh world or will this prayer be so uncomon (77 pray and d'nearing) as that its efect will be allmost zero. in my opinion, to put it bluntly, fail. although i say, even after a long time, this prayer will not be comon enough to be a major problem, but thats still not really a reson to do nuthing.

oh hai thar :P although i dont think (much) less of anyone and allways have chat n privet to all, i would say this fits me better then the others. anyway instesting look upon steriotypes, without being steritypical. better then calling everyone noob at least <_< (wait... oh darn)

I tried to explain this earlier you can not avg ely's soak ability off a scale bigger then 1 which means there is no such thing as an average percentage of how much dps i can soak its will always be 25% 70% of the time not 17.5% 100% of the time. The code/algorithm in place is based off each individual hit not over a X amount of hits/damage taken. Therefore saying it takes off 17.5% 100% of the time will either make it sound worse or better then it really is for that fact you have a 70% chance each time you take damage not 70% of the next 100 times you take damage 25% percent of those 100 hits will be reduced. It is only based off each hit and the "dice" is thrown again for the next time. Which could mean 100/100 of the next hits could be reduced by 25% or 0/100 of the next hits could be reduced trying to average out something that can be averaged is just misleading. .... On average, 70% of the times that you get hit the effect will activate. When you get hit, there is an equal chance for you to get hit for anything between 0 and the max. So over time, you will get hit for every possible hit a similar number of times. So the 70% will account for 70% of the total damage with an infinitely large sample size, and 25% of that will be ignored. So if 25% of 70% is ignored, then 17.5% is ignored over time. You saying that more or less could be ignored is...obvious. That usually happens with any percentage wth a non infinite sample size, and since there never is an infinite sample size, that usually happens, but over time you tend toward whatever the percentage is. EDIT: All of that is assuming that the elysian effect only affects hits and not misses...which could be wrong...but I would think that coding the effect would make more sense if they had it check for a miss first, then again I have no idea if they actually did. The thing is how far would we have to go to get to this middle point your talking about, that equals 17.5% or close to it, 100 hits 1,000 hits 10,000 hits. The fact is that computer code/algorithm's tend to be way to non-linear in their outcomes over time, it can't really be defined down to an exact number without extensive testing. That could also prove that the amount of damage soaked by the effects could land up more left or right of the center then you think. your trying to put a linear number to a non-linear algorithm which can't really be done. It has a better chance to average out more along the lines of 15% or 20% the more you do something won't make things even out over time example: " two wrongs don't make a right" and so on. ok see your points, but may i say whether or not 70% to 25% = 17.5% or does not doesant really mean that much. all we know is that it will somewhat avrige that. and its not really on toic, is Chaotic is better than Divine/Elysian? so lets think about that, say that 17.5% is total jiberish and its half as efective for whateva reson, makeing it 8.75(say 9)% reduction via spec... thats still an imrpovement on a monster with a max hit of 500 (on all 3 styles) only 6% v 9% but still, and tell me, does 9% even look near to the real number? although yes this number could be twissted in any number of ways (chaotic haveing better stats makeing up for the loss of spec, monster not haveing all 3 styles/weak in 1 or 2 styles, cost ect) but i still feal that spirit shields are the better option.

maybe undead do have some "life" (in some form or another) to leach, its just that the bolts, being just a small gem tip, doesent have the power to drain that life. but a full blown armour set or powerfull magic blasts have enough of whateva is needed to drain the life from them. that or guthins and blood spels does not steal life, but heals you and hurting the oponent at the same time. (would thrashing something to bits with a spear heal you any other way?)