Central_Keeper

Thats exactly why they nerfed that. Don't pick stuff up thats not useful? In the early levels <25, it is very slow. It gets better after 50. Its not so bad not once I get the hang of it. Again, try not to pick up so much stuff. Plus start the dungeon floor at higher level instead of smaller ones. For some odd reason, I keep on trying to get the best equipment when facing the boss since I thought it will be an advantage, but then I realize that my stat overwhelm most of them in less than a minutes. For example, I was fighting unholy cursebearer, upon reading that he can lower people stat, I immediately set off to make the best range armor. So when I am lack of funds even selling all the junk I found in the dungeon, had to resort to making and selling airs to make enough cash. Just when I go in with full Tier 5 range armor and full inventory of good food, I thought I should go in melee it a bit first. Turns out the boss was dead in less than 4 hits coming from my fractite maul. Didn't even use food or range, and it didn't even stay alive long enough to lower my stat less than 95s yet....... =_=, over prepared I would say. Next time I fight them, I will do it less seriously for sure......

Or maybe i have a massive cashpile and im waiting on getting them all to 99 in one go :) and I dont bot, but i dont hate people that do either. They dont HURT my gameplay and infact they will BENEFIT me when i work on all my production skills at once :) have a nice day No you don'T understand, my opinions are now truth and nothing you say have any effect. You fear that people ranting against bot will make Jagex be harsher on macros and you will end up perma-ban. There I go, another baseless assumption. Have a nice botter's day. As to your statement saying bots don't have an effect on your gameplay, wait till you start slaying pure-ess droppers and you'll get undervalued drops. I dont care if Jagex perma banns macro users. THEY SHOULD DO THAT. Im not sure of the logic why it was changed at all. However what i DO fear is that people ranting against botters will lead to more stupidity. Pure ess itself represents the stupidity of Jagex's attempts to fix botting. Ess shouldnt be more then 30gp each. Pure ess should never have existed, all pure ess did in the long run was make Runecrafting less profitable and make bots (and Jagex) even more money. But clearly im the selfish, arrogent, egotistical one though. Clearly im only looking after my interests and not the community. Also clearly im a bot. :rolleyes: To say at least that RS is mostly revolved around levels, and levels need xp to raise, and xp need time to earn. You are stockpiling the cash now so you can grind away later to hit all 99s, all that efficiency is to make you grind away faster. Still, you are grinding towards any 99s, and any 99s need time. I do admit that some plans that were implemented to stop botting weren't done very well, well at least the reception of it weren't doing so well. I seen a lot of players use that as a comeback to ask Jagex to fix this type problem properly in the future, and then we won't repeat the same mistake again. It's a lot of stuff to balance, and who can think that ahead anyways? To put it bluntly, some other bot programmers will always in the same pace as Jagex. It's niche market for money, and it's using human greed to fuel all those rule breakers out there. Basically, I feel like we are going in circles here, with nothing really productive to say on the overall subject I think the only thing that Jagex can do is trying to rectify some part of the system properly so less of those complaints would appear. Community wise, I would still report autoers if I do see them, as for buying stuff, that's hard, unless you buy from suppliers who you know for a while, and they get all the supplies themselves, which means they will have to get rid of GE.

Quit before it's too late. LOL so true. Well, majority of us didn't play so that we can sign up on the F2P list, its just something on the way toward our goal. My goal was lvl 99 all F2P skill, well, lvl 99 all plus annoying lvl 120 dungeoneering skill. I have friends that quit because they are either getting married, or start to have kids, but that still make me wonder why they have to quit all together. It's more like, instead of getting lvl 99 all in 2 year, becomes get lvl 99 all in 5 years. Play leisurely.

Actually, I think we argue to a point that we start using bot and macro interchangeably now. Could a forum mod states again what we are suppose to discuss here? lol

There is no state or federal laws in any country that say using macros are illegal. So it clearly isnt illegal. Against ingame terms and service YES you found a winner here. But to call that illegal is just lulzworthy. Illegal or not aside in the real world, it it against the rules in the game, if you play this game, you will have to follow the rules, their rules is the law in the game. And look at it this way, How many d bones are needed for 99 prayer from 70? around 48k D bones with guilded alter at my level. Hmm, I am not sure about that, I would probably need 2.5mil normal bones, or 640k big bones for prayer 99, thanks for reminding me that again. I used to hit men in those houses near Remmington bank on end, collecting bones from them, you can probably get full inventory in less than 3 minutes. I once told some lower level player to gather bone for me, they got 1k in 1 day no problem, and I pay them 50k for it (back in 2006). Look how many people that are playing now? Now how many people gathering bones does it take for 1 person to be able to have the supply needed for 99 prayer? Hundreds. Now with bots gathering 24/7 it creates a supply that can support 1000's of people getting 99 prayer. If there werent hoarders the price of d bones would fall because of that. Simple, gather the bone good old fashion way, by yourself. You can buy and get bones from monsters I once think that I should just stay in the goblin house and stay in there until my prayer is 99. So to say that bots don't benefit legit players is just hilarious to me. We were fine before the bot comes, they came and messed up the price, if they left, people would complain. And again, it's against the rule, enough said. Also organic vs regular foods arguement is invalid here. Items got by skillers are no different then those got by botters. It would make some indirect sense as in, if no one bought from bot players (which I figure would be pretty hard), then botters wouldn't even bother gathering resources for any real life gain. The end item is the same, the way getting them is honesty/hardwork vs cheating/devalue. In fact if Jagex didnt make skilling set up so that only a machine could enjoy it (maybe autistic players too since they enjoy repetition) then people would never have started botting in the first place. It's just as lawyer often said, its a gray area, you can use tons of points to argue why botting comes a long way, and eventually people come to accept it. I simply abide everything said on the rule book, and don't break anyone of them. Lastly, the reason why some skill is hard because its long and repetitive, you really can't dismiss it to the point that, well its very boring and repetitive, so lets just get some macro program and let the bots do all the work. Part of the game is to enjoy a variety of skill and switch them around as you play. If you want to get 100k dragon bones in one go and calling that repetitive then, well, that's too bad, you set up a very boring long road ahead. Which means all the skill, the repetitive one can be done by using macro and achieve 99 that way? So that means, if you ever see anyone with cook 99 for fletch 99 skill cape, or mining, we would assume that they all macro or bought stuff from botters.

Really? Thanked god, I was getting really impatient with some of the rooms I couldn't explore or due to to non member limitation, and that tend to cut down quite few chunk of bonus xp.

Botters are helping you. I'm not saying you should bot, I'm just saying that you should understand that in the long run, they're helping you and I wouldn't report them.. This confuses me A LOT. To say that its almost like saying breaking that rule yourself is no good, but let someone break the rule for you so they take the blame and keeping the price low is OK. I wonder what would a forum mod or J mod say if they see this kind of response on RSOF

Hell freaking no. Why would you do an illegal activity to pay for your college fund. That's kind of like saying let's set up some fraud scheme to get other people's credit card info and use it to fund your college tuition, because we are not physically harming anybody, and RS is only a game. No matter how small and irrelevant the way that cash comes, if it comes from a illegal activities, its not good. Of course, some people actually mentioned this in other thread before talking about guys making few k of money from RS. I guess the only way to stop people doing this kind of thing is that you would actually get arrested for it (if they can catch you at it). Back to what Ring World said earlier, botting is NEVER beneficial. When I started playing back in 05, the prices were pretty normal back then even without botters, and the only one that does it do mostly on mining and few wood cut. When large amount of bots influx into the game, it creates a dependency and false demand for people. When that fake supply left by new interventions, people start going to withdraw symptoms on how expensive things has become. When I was training in RS one day few years back, one of my high level friend told me that she just bought 10k raw lobbies from someone for 210ea. She was very glad to get it for so cheap and want to get cooking 99 over with (that was before exchange and limit trades were introduce). Upon hearing that, I asked her if the person she bought it from is a lvl 3, bald head and wearing green pants with name that doesn't make sense. She pause for a moment, and goes, yeah....... After the incident, I thought to myself, she was one of the respectable high level that I know (hard working and help people a lot), even thought I don't blame her for that deal, but I slowly understand why those bots stay perm in the place after waves of intervention. Funny how they have the similar debates regarding to organic foods vs "regular" food. Should we eat the food that cost more, but friendlier to environment and they way they are grown, or eat foods that cheaper, but probably worse for us in the long run, and only benefits the big corporations out there (this is just an example, please don't argue on this one too)

For some odd, however weird, twisted reason, that statement is vile yet true (to a certain point, exclude the part about skiller being poor and stupid because some can channel their dedication into other field such as merchanting)

Yes. Do I need to restate what I said? Its not just the attack level. No. MH should be FAR more profitable for numerous reasons: Not everyone like to do monster hunting, and they might not be as efficient as you are. 4.) Risk. There is always risk. I've been at GWD where the whole world lagged out, and everyone in the boss room died before. Higher risk tasks do equal to higher pay outs, but players would have to have a lot of experience before they can make profits to your level 5.) Input. I don't know any boss which is easier to AFK then fishing/mining/wcing. Fishing and woodcutting is quite easy that's for sure, but you would still need to run back and forth to bank them, unless you are botting. I don't even know how you can afk with mining, I think its one of the attention demanding skill out there because you have to click on them rocks individually. Also, if you skill, why do you need as much money? Most gear is for killing things anyways, and unless you are looking at aesthetic items such as party hats and certain TT items, you shouldn't need as much cash. Eh, huge come back for me on this one, I think I am a skiller, but I also train all my melee to stat 99 as well. I think I need 500 mil gp now for prayer 99, as the bones keep on going up. Also, I need large amount of cash to buy 2.5mil essence to get RC 99 (Hopefully, the money from air runes will relief alot of those 500mil debt) And I make ~4.5m gp/hr at DKS. Why shouldn't I? I spent hundred of hours, and over 1b on my gear and stats. If you want to make that kind of money, train up. Hell, I've trained attack more then DOUBLE the amount you've trained ALL your skills. And yet you tell me I shouldn't make good cash? This I won't argue, you do have to work hard and train hard for the skill you currently have. If I have a better education then you IRL man, I'm probably going to be making far more then you. So essentially Racheya, yes. I spend 100 grand on my college education, and six years, and you only finish high school. You may have worked to finish High School just as hard as I did to finish college. However, I still spent more time, more money, and took more risk, needing to find a job. (Far easier to get a job at burger king then it is to find an advanced job in most instances.) If I mess up in my current job, not only am I facing termination, but also MASSIVE fines (up to $10,000 a day) and a jail term of several years, courtesy of the FCC. If you mess up at the library, wal-mart, or the gas station, you get fired. I don't think you can drag real life into this one, well, its hard to compare. I spend 4 years in uni, and roughly 30k on the overall tuition, books, gas money, etc etc (wait, how did you hit 100K? Did you went Harvard or something). I have friends who didn't went to university but went to colleges instead and finish it in 2 years and half and make better money than I do by fixing cars (and opening other joint locations as co owners). Higher education doesn't mean you will get a good job, its your experience, determination, networking, and a bit of luck. I know people who finishes uni end up going back to colleges because the stuff they learn is all theoretical and not practical. Besides, its really hard to mess up a job unless you are not doing anything at all, hence neglecting your responsibility. If I messed up my job (doing something totally unethical and cause bodily or psychological damage, I could get sued for 1 to 5milion per case load, and that's in US dollars too, and that's why I need to buy professional liability and commercial general liability insurance) The funny thing is, my job doesn't even pay that much for the risk that it takes (again, if you really don't care about anything and just fooling around). Lastly, even money from Library (by the way, they are union supported, regular staff do earn quite ALOT), Wal mart, or gas station do mean something because they would help out pay for mortgages and other necessity, and its a horrible set back that could lead bankruptcy if you don't pay your bills or debt on time, like get fired for instance. In the end, not trying to go against you or anything, but just goes to show that everyone's opinion and circumstances is different, its hard to use your own standard and place it on other, the world simply doesn't work that way.

I always said that when I was training in the SoS. Eventually I reached level 100 combat. o_o Lvl 100 combat F2p isn't hard, I think most players can hit that mark in one month from lvl 3 if they knew what they were doing and train a lot during this time. lvl 120 Dungeoneering on the other hand is a bit insane, I am used to doing all the training myself, so if it means team up with others to get fast xp, its a bit hard for me. You would have to find clans or people as dedicated as you are and go dungeon raids as often as you can. I was going to say RC is the hardest skill in F2P (without any assist or mini games, just purely making runes by running back and forth) But dungeoneering set a whole new level for it, at least its quite enjoyable compare to RC.

Mentality like that is one of the main reasons why bots are still around. You will start the feel the effect of it, once they start botting the resources you gathering. I have seen several bots with high ranks and taking up high score list too. For the most part, its directly breaking the rules, even though this is a game, we need rules to function as a whole, or the whole order will crumble (I would say its starting to, others might say its already started, and some amount would say its already ruined)

Botting yew, I cared because that's one of my main source of income, and compete with tons of them isn't fun. Green Dragons, well, I am F2p, so not really sure if it affects other except pkers. Botting barrows, wow, I didn't know they can do that. Boss spots, man, we are so beyond raw materials gathering simple minded bots now I remember someone mentioned they can bot dungeoneering soon, thought of it was a joke, but it might seem to be a reality soon.

I wouldn't be surprised if the class rings are members only. Nah, they will be F2P, unless they expand on them more. I don't mind really, as long the updates can makes training easier or less bugs to deal with. For some odd reasons, I am moving very slowly in the dungeons, perhaps because I like to solo and spend too much time pick up stuff..... I wish they haven't nerf the xp for RC and high lvl f2p. Otherwise, I would stay there all day long just making air runes for hours on end...lol Don't know how those guys achieve lvl 100+ as F2P.

Edmund Burke was a very famous philosopher in his day. He published Reflections on the Revolution in France in 1790. People have been trying to create equality among men for hundreds of years. No one has suceeded yet. I colored the text that allows you to get the main point of that paragraph. The poor will always be with us. I talked to one of my friends about the equalization between poor and riches. I was trying to simplified things by saying that why don't riches give equal amount of their earning to the poor, and everyone will be happy. But then he stated that due to the way poor and riches think (very differently), and not knowing how to make money efficiently, rich ones will always make more and poor ones will stay poor (given amount of time). It's same with RS players, most just want instant riches (beggars and scammers from awhile back), not knowing how to make money patiently will always result in a gap between rich and poorer RS players. Back to the bot problem, I remember back in 05 to early 07 when RS truly flourish (or normal) until bots start to appear like crazy. For one thing, the legit players can't compete with bots taking all their spots and cheap prices, and other skillers takes the advantage of cheap items prices to get huge money and xp spike. When the bots were removed due to major updates, its like a withdraw symptom happening, prices went up due to insufficient amount of gathers (the players who stopped gathering due to massive botting, or maybe a false supply created by the bots to begin with). Another theory is that not a lot of new RS player these days, so with all the existing new players become veterans, not many people want to spend time to gather materials, and instead focus more on training to be elites. Still, just from my opinions and observations, maybe its totally different things. But, certainly that bots have evolve along with the game to the point that its really hard to differentiate them compare to the old days. Just another input, I think its really easy to make money nowadays. Rune essence mining was like 20gp ea, now they are like 70 something? Iron ore used to be like 75, now its over 200. Normal bones use to be....well quite worthless, now they are like 150+. The most scary one I seen was limproot, which in my time used to be 100 ea or useless, now they are like what 2k ea? And I used to spend like 5 hours a day gathering those....... Either we were all hardcore players back then or people just got lazy over the time.

Hmm, while I know the recent Rock Climbing Boots create a huge controversy within the RS community, and it does seem like a mistake on Jagex part. I would still respect them for making this game. I remember people used to refer to the good old days many times, and how people reminisce community were closer compare to before. But if Andrew and Paul keep it the way it was before, how many people would be interested to stay in the long run before their "interest" runs out. All those new graphical updates and game patches and many more things come from many talented people in the expanded company, that it's really hard to please all the players when its released. Not to say that many people would make the decision in the game and not just Andrew and Paul. That being said, I think most of us would benefit from what the author of this post mentioned, cool down and look at it from more calming point of view. Still, I don't want to force my believe and perspective on others because people are free to choose whatever they wish to express. I do admit that some of those response are quiet legitimate and Jagex should take example from that. I have always been F2P, that's one way I like it because I like the simplicity of it. Sure, there are other updates that I don't like as well, but majority of them have been pretty good. I know we can get into a whole new topic for how the company should have run, how the RS update should have been, but that would been a bit pointless because it would be endless debate. This is just my personal response base on this topic, of course does not represent what everyone thinks.

Well, maybe I didn't check the RSOF, but say you got the 7 day triall and decide to cancel it at the last minute, do they reset all the xp back to original, or just keep it there? If they reset everything back to your stat before you have the trial, then I guess it wouldn't make a difference. But if you do, it would be consider as member at one point. Goal for summer....ugh....get crafting and fishing to 99....maybe.

Cooking and Firemaking would also give you quick xp if you have the cash, same with smithing. By the way, anyone know the fastest xp obtainable through dungeoneering? Not sure if any one posted something like this in the past before. Solo, F2P Group, F2P Solo, P2P Group, P2P I am really surprised at some member got it to lvl 111, and non member got it to lvl 103 in such a short time after the release of the skill.

Hmm, keep in mind that most of them have been playing for long time. I think most players on the list already find the best and most efficient way to train each individual skills. Even though its time consuming, but if you find something else to do during the main time, its nothing more than a background applications which requires you click every few minutes or so (unless its attention intensive skill or if you are chatting). I got a lot of stuff done especially reading or researching on the net while playing RS, so I usually try to be productive as much as I can. To my own knowledge, I usually categorize people into several categories when I see high lvls. They play for long time, train moderately They play for only few years, but train a lot during those 2 to 3 years. (efficiently, of course) Lastly, they play for long time and train a lot. For the most part, most of us are kind of cross in between. I was training almost 6 to 8 hours during my uni years, and slow down to moderate or light training since I am working now. A lot has changed since then, and its less time demanding and resource wasting as well (craft use to waste cash, not anymore). I will want to reach my goal eventually, but I won't really want to join the xp wars because it will be never ending story. Always play the way you want to play. Just for small measure of how much people might train here is some of my past "achievements" 22 hours RS gaming straight (all combat xp, prayer and hp xp) a lot of ice giants murdered that day in Ice Cave 12+ hours mining in crafting guild for almost a week in 2005 (end up with 9k plus silver ores and 5.5k gold ore) Train for 12 hours + per day for almost 2 weeks again beating up ice giants Train firemaking for 11 hours to see how long it takes to me to get bored of one song (listening to same song for almost the whole day while firemaking) there are many more but more or less small fragments of hours here and there, I am not saying its recommended and I never do it for more than 2 weeks continuously. Of course during those hard training time, I would consider myself almost no life for the most part (at least I was studying) during that time. But I also shocked few of my RS friend back then when they went to bed and wake up the next day to find that I am still training, lol

Some people like that repetitiveness, and as long as you do something else on the side (of course not AFK training). It would be more enjoyable. I sometimes went around RS aimlessly doing odd tasks just to relax myself. (If you ever see a lvl 124 hitting chickens and collecting eggs, or milking cows, or doing stuff that new players would do, that's probably me) Just 2 months ago, I went off and collected 6k pizza ingredient myself because I wanted a break from crafting (trying to buy 6k flour from shop is hard work, but buying 6k cheese from GE is even harder work, at the end a member friend help me make them) At least some nice profits since I got everything from scratch

Enough said, I wonder how many people play back then? Like 2001 to 2009 annual stats, I am sure there was a huge drop in 2007 or 08 when all the big changes implemented

When I first look at the sub title, I was expecting some friendship thingy, even though the content deviate from what I expected. Though I don't see how visiting cheat site and breaking several rules on the way there until the end is fine, but I am glad that you guys are starting to get back into the game again (well your friend anyways). In any case, breaking any kind of rules isn't good, if you are thinking about quitting the game, just leave everything alone instead of selling it or messing it up with cheat programs. That reminds me of numerous time that walking along the world of RS, so many people would say they got hacked and such. Which is why I never really show that much sympathy mostly due to their own indiscreet action. I know some people in real life that actually write those type of cheat program, and he merely said that if you are not greedy or too lazy to train, there would be no demand for them in the first place (which of could all lead back to RWT and botting).

Eh, ever since the dungeoneering came out, my rank dropped like a rock since I don't like train the new skill until the old ones are done. Hope I don't get bumped off before then, lol.

Wow, how do you use the shop to make that much money? All I did was go to shop if I was nearby buy some tinder boxes and jugs to sell in GE, lol. I remembered I used to go to the general store in Varrock, with some 500k gp and just sit there and buy stuff people toss in. I admit it was kind of waste of time but I picked up so many things for good deals, kind of like you go to liquidation store and pick up stuff that's at wholesale price. The competition was fierce and I had to get ready with the mouse to get the things I want. Best I got was probably Shade Robe top and bottom, and runite ore (probably some other goodies but forgot what they were). Bunch of uncut gems, arrows, and good number of maple long bow (buy it and alc it for some profit), and among other things. For the other shops, I would frequently visit the gem shops in Al karid for uncuts, arrow shop in Varrock, never really visit the rune shop since the one I want tend to be low in supplies. Also good with Lumbridge shop where new players would toss bunch of stuff in and raw fish to cook (there is a fireplace right inside, so u can just cook and sell back for cook xp). Remmington for excessive amount of willow logs and iron ore for xp and smith xp. Best experience was after the system update, people would stay in arrow shops or rune shop to buy the stocked up arrows and runes, I myself once spend almost 5 hours just world hopping to buy tons of arrows....good times I still use shop now to buy things like chisel and things for crafting purposes, but certainly not as much as before. Maybe a 2nd grand exchange in other major cities? Personally, I don't think there is a need for stores now since GE is there, but not everyone has tons of tele runes to go GE every time so its still needed to some degree for quick cash. Not to mentioned the specialty stores that sells crafting items, plus it cost more in GE anyways. Its certainly not a good idea to put GE function in all store since people would just dump all the things they get from skilling and get good number of cash which usually requires walking and saving them (mess up the whole market).

I don't think its possible since Jagex would have pick up the problem already and patch it up. Just to be safe, I either play solo or have other party member turn off xp shared when we raid dungeons. Does anyone know what happen to the top f2p list? I try the link at very first page and it says something about the list is not activated by the admin until next time.