Grimy_Bunyip

I personally prefer to cannon, it is indeed faster than a geyser, or even a steel titan at that. too bad you cant use both right?

and people who don't use efficiency call us idiots for "not having fun" or "being elitist" I really don't see the point of what you're arguing.

wait, you yelled at people and expected them to sit there and take it? anywhoo it's not like he wasn't stopping you from talking.

efficiency people aren't the only people that criticize each other. Don't act like saints <_< Re-read what he said.... good call <3

efficiency people aren't the only people that criticize each other. Don't act like saints <_<

sounds like you're going to have to make that clan buddy.

I would sure like anybody that thinks elitism is annoying to read this <_<

elites? are you talking about elite diaries? I'm inclined to not think so, because they don't really gain you any gp, just xp.

I'm pretty sure full void + deflector + barrows gloves is better damage output than typical gear.

All I've been trying to say this thread is that fun can be one of the goals of efficiency. Typically we just calculate getting the best gp and xp with your time. It does not mean however, that efficiency can be getting the best gp, xp, AND fun with your time. After all, playing a game and not having fun, is most definitely not efficient. I just choose not put fun in my calculations. Because calculating math equations with fun as a variable, is most definitely, not fun.

>_< I was trying to tell you that your definition of total efficiency is incorrect. Your definition of total efficiency is everybody going after certain resources like frost dragon bones. I was saying, that that would in fact, be less efficient, and most definitely not be "total efficiency"

so one unit is behind the other correct? [Lvl 90] [Lvl 360] [vent] [you] the only way you'll get them separated is if you align yourself perpendicular to the two [lvl 90] [lvl 360] ---------->[you] [vent] they'll run towards you, try to trap one behind something but not the other.

Okay, lets say everybody does reach the highest point in runescape, ability wise. Then what happens? clearly there aren't enough spawns for everyone. Then smaller factors start going into action. Player A enjoys hunting DK's Player B enjoys Hunter Frost dragons but they are both equal stats. Guess what the efficient outcome of such a situation is. player A hunts DKs. player B hunts frost dragons. Is this what you're talking about? I'm not sure. perhaps you are saying that hypothetically, there are 500 million dragon bones in the economy. And there are 2 pools of players Both sets of players want the 500 million dragon bones. And both sets of players are very efficient. But Player pool A are predominantly monster hunters, and if they had access to turmoil, they would use it say, 60 hours a month. Player pool B are predominantly skillers, if they had access to turmoil, they would use it 2 hours a month. Lets say both are very rich, and are 1 hour of turmoil is worth 500k gp to them. Then dragon bones would simply rise to a point, such that player pool A would be justified in buying the dragon bones. Because they value the benefits of the extra prayer levels 30x more than player pool B. efficiency ultimately dictates that resources should go to people that need them the most.

There is no such thing as a top end of efficiency Racheya, not as you speak of it at least. A machine can be 100% efficient, sure. but there's no such thing as individuals reaching peak efficiency when speaking of a group. You're thinking of things too shallowly.

It wouldn't. Like I said. Training with frost dragon bones can be efficient for some people, not others. This is why my spreadsheets require players to input their incomes. Efficiency is different person to person. it is NOT the same for every person. I mean I have nothing left to say, efficiency is NOT the same for everybody. If you can't believe that, I have nothing else to say.

-edit nevermind, i understand you now- why can't you trap them? mind drawing a map for us?

Wait, why do you think efficiency dictates everybody doing the same thing. Because it doesnt. Efficiency dictates you doing something that is productive, and that you're better at than the rest of the community. if everybody were more efficient, it surely would not mean everybody focusing on a single resource. Because demand would rise for the resource. and the resource would become inefficient for those who cannot afford it. just look at the economy right now. Frost dragon bones are more efficient for those with prayer brawlers and insane incomes. Dragon bones are a sort of middle ground. and big bones are most efficient for the low leveled. Increased efficiency would not mean everybody going OMG I NEED FROST DRAGON BONES. No, that would not make sense.

Racheya, fundamental rule of economics. The reactionary force is never greater than the impetus. If you send a wave at a wall, do you expect an even larger wave to come back at you? no. Same thing applies to the economy. yes, prices would rise as more people would only buy things that were efficient. but it will be outweighed by the overall rise in productivity of all the players. Think about what you're trying to say. Your saying that a rise in productivity will cause a reaction in the economy, that will be so strong, it will completely destroy the rise in productivity that caused the reaction. A reaction NEVER overwhelms the cause. Sorry I didn't specify, but i was referring to the overall mentality of an efficient person. Not specific techniques in dungeoneering which may be efficient or not (rushing vs not rushing, prom2h vs other weapons, etc), i don't want to deal with that discussion right now. I'm just saying, a person who has done efficiency calculations, tends to understand the gains and losses from their decisions better. you don't know how many times i've done dungeons, to have a single player run off after a floor to go farm herbs. These people simply don't understand the cost if their decisions. To them, their herb run just cost them ~5 minutes of time, and they gained some money. Whereas someone who actually does efficiency calculations on a regular basis, knows that he just spent ~25 minutes of time. 5 minutes of his own time, and 5 minutes from each of his comrades. I like people who THINK before they make decisions. They tend to be more considerate to groups.

Like I said earlier, efficiency generally encourages the overall teamwork of the economy. if everybody else were efficient, (including OR excluding yourself) If people were more efficient, they would collect resources and level up faster and gain access to higher level resources, resources would become more abundant. cheaper bones, cheaper herbs, cheaper godwars items, cheaper everything in general. I do get ticked when people are very anti efficiency. It means they don't understand that, selling or buying a resource on GE is ultimately helping someone else out. Generally speaking, if someone buys or sells something on GE, it means they're willing to pay more than what they paid, or willing to sell for less than what they offered for. The majority of the time, a trade will do the other trader a favor.

This is exactly what I hate about efficiency freaks. why waste time and emotion on something so petty.

I agree with this. Theoretical math (as you don't know Jag's formulas for sure but have rough estimates) can never outdo an experiment experiments are good, but you have to realize his experiment was done with a stopwatch, which he started and stopped for EVERY kill. you must realize how huge the potential for error is with an experiment like that. his experiment said that the warrior ring was better than the berserker ring at living rocks, which have no defense. Would you actually wear a warrior ring over a berserker ring at living rocks just because qeltar collected saying so? His data is far too inaccurate to make any sound conclusions. you should also consider the nature of the math before you jump to conclusions. we KNOW runescape runs on a dice roll system, that's not actually up for question since it's been referred to by jagex. thus we also KNOW that in a dice roll system, a 5% increase in average damage is the close to the same thing as a 5% increase in maximum accuracy roll. The question is whether or not a +4 attack bonus and a +4 strength bonus both give equal percentage increases to average damage and maximum accuracy roll. Assuming your stats and equipment bonuses are balanced, there's no reason to think otherwise.

In dice roll DPS situations, DPS is calculated by the equation when accuracy falls below 50% (Average Damage per hit)*(Maximum Accuracy Roll - Resolution)/(Maximum Defense Roll) resolution is defined to be a small number, so it can be ignored. a 5% increase in accuracy could be slightly more than a 5% increase in average damage per hit IF resolution is nontrivial (which is only true if you're a noob) If you assume otherwise, then a 5% increase in accuracy will never be more valuable than a 5% increase in damage. the only other time a warrior ring would be useful, would be like if you had +0 attack bonus and +100 strength bonus in such a case +4 strength bonus on a berserker ring might translate ROUGHLY to a 2-3% increase in damage? where as 0 to 4 attack bonus would translate to much more than a 2-3% increase in maximum accuracy roll.

Sure, efficient gamers tend to be elitist, but that doesn't make efficiency itself a bad thing. it's like you say, efficient gamers tend to be mean. But I don't understand why people stigmatize efficiency instead of the elitism OMG TERRORISTS ARE ISLAMIC ISLAM MUST BE BAD I ARE ANTI ISLAM NAO likewise, inefficient gamers tend to suck team play. In a team, people work on what they're good at, or what they're better at than the rest of the team. That's just what efficiency is. When you're asked to train with your best money maker, it's just the economy pushing you to do what you're better at than the rest of runescape. Hell, the economy is even offering to PAY you for helping out the rest of runescape People that don't understand that will never truly understand teamwork but I mean sure, if you really don't want to do something, don't do it. If I can't trust them to not waste their own time, I sure as hell am not going to trust them to not waste mine.

anything's possible and borderline impossible to prove without jagex proof, but 9 times out of 10, these posts are people being paranoid

Hello clown #2, short time no argue over semantics eh? MSN Encarta dictionary for you. ef·fi·cien·cy [ i físh'nsee ] (plural ef·fi·cien·cies) noun Definition: 1. competence: the ability to do something well or achieve a desired result without wasted energy or effort. emphasis on the highlighted words Haha! Never look at the last part of that sentence ever. Bold the middle. Bold the beginning. Tell everybody efficiency means happiness. Tell everybody that definitions of words are subjective. Standardized english is cruel. Make up new definitons of commonly used words. But, for god's sake never acknowledge the last part of that sentence because you'll know your clueless. :lol: im sorry you find english cruel but it seems efficiency is the ability to achieve a desired result without wasted energy or effort. im not sure why you think "without wasted energy or effort" somehow prevents fun from being one possible "desired result" go back to grade school, I'm tired of your trolling.