Outsanity

OK OK.......some of the things I see are not as bad as i thought. I don't have many of the required lvls to make a ton of money like that. Also, correct me if Im wrong, but in the proposition, with the new skill, it just said that the altar would take 90 prayer to use "to the fullest potential", or something like that. I took that to mean that it would take 90 prayer to be able to get the huge prayer bonus when you worship bones on the altar. I didn't think I read it through and it sounded to me that you could enter the chamber with just the 96 arch. I have never heard or seen of an altar that took prayer lvls just to pray at it. Also, lets get this straight that im not ranting about how the trade limit and gravestones ruined the game. Yes, I hate the trade limit, but i was a fletcher and it basically doubled the price of my materials.....lol. And dont get me wrong, I love the gravestones. they basically saved me what was at the time 15mil in items. So that made me very happy. :) The only thing that I really had a problem with was the high lvls who could sit in bandos. The KC is pitifully easy to get, and getting 2 kills without a prayer recharge is plenty of time a food runner to leave, restock sharks, and run back. With high QP, a runner could trade a full inv of sharks without a problem. What im worried about is the cheapening of Bandos. I kinda would like to have bandos stay as a nice symbol of wealth and everything. having it drop would be nice for everyone who cant afford it, but probably make the people who already spent the 30+mil for the set and GS a little upset. That is my only issue with the entire skill. Mostly the only problem with me for the aviansies is that i see the prayer guys running around in monks robes or whatever, and stealing my aviansies. they never take damage!!! So thats just a personal annoyance of mine, a solid bones to peaches user. them not having to even spend money on prayer pots would just annoy me. But let me get this straight, I do like the idea. I love the rewards, and i dont think that anything is overpowered or anything, except just the altar a little bit. Im sure that by the time, if ever, that this skill comes out, I will be waiting for the release so i can access the altar and sit in bandos forever. lol :) But really, I do like the idea as a whole, so put me down on that support list........and it looks like im gonna go get my 85 mining lol. Thanks for the idea btw, i forgot about P2P so i was still thinking that rune was pretty much worthless like it used to be. :) Support 99.9% Yeah, I do see where you're coming from. But remember too, that people have to pay food runners gp unless I guess it's a really good friend helping out. Getting a food runner and using the altar to pray is more complicated than just simply teleporting out and coming back with restocked items. If someone has the patience to find food runners and deal with all that (and keep in mind they waste 2 inventory spots by needing a trowel and pickaxe to get into the altar room) they deserve to "camp" at GWD. =-p And yeah, to clarify, you can get into any cavern with the correct archaeology level, but in order to use what's inside you need the secondary level as well. The entire altar would not work (any aspect of it) if you don't have at least 90 prayer.

Nice blog, Ben! It's good to see you setting goals for yourself (and achieving them!). Congrats on the Guthix Platebody! You didn't tell me you got one. I guess you're liking the level 3 clues now, eh? =-p

Easily fixed. I'll make it so that when you go down into the altar you lose your KC. Simple and done. And I just want you to know it would not be the fastest way to make money. It would be decent, yes, around the same as 85 Mining once you hit about level 90, but I would not say it would be the fastest method, just an extremely good one. Unless you get a Dragon 2h every hour at level 96 (which is highly unlikely, as it has about a 1 in 1,000 chance of obtaining) you probably couldn't make more than 600k an hour with this skill. Which, I won't lie, is very good, but you've got to be high leveled, and, let's face it, we need a new money making skill. Losing your kill count is not the issue. When you enter the boss room, you lose your kill count. I am pointing out that it would be extremely cheaper and still relitively fast to leave after every boss kill, recharge your prayer, and reget your kill count. As it is, the boss room altar only works every 10 mins. Having a altar that works every time with such a huge bonus would basically nullify the need to bring any sort of prayer restoration to fight. THe higher lvls down there can already get 2 kills in without needing a recharge. If they were smart enough to pay a food runner, they would basically never need to stop killing. The bandos kc of 40 is already pitifully easy to get. Another concern is people who just want to skill and stuff. There are people who use prayer to kill aviansies. having a altar down there would eliminate the need to bring any sort of prayer restoration. People would also be able to get a huge pile of monsters on them, pray protect, and kill whatever monster they wished with impunity. I have not seen anything that makes 600k an hour that is easy to do. The best I can do is aviansies, and even there, I can only manage 400k and hour. Same with green drags, where I get 350k and hour and thats alot of work. I think the fact that jagex has given us several money hole skills means they think we have to much money anyway. Its unbelievable how common the GS is already, and am seeing more and more of every type of spirit shield. But then again, im from the good old days of RSC, I am a proud owner of a scythe, and I remember fondly the real skill it took to merchant. Now, with the trade rule and the grave stones, inflation is rampant. Your pretty much garunteed to get your items back when you die. I died at Dagonnoths, pretty much the farthest away you can get from anything, and i made it back in time to pick everything i dropped up. That was with the worst gravestone. People are saving alot more money now adays cause they never have to rebuy anything they die with. First off, if you think adding an altar is going to save you any money you are highly mistaken. It's EXACTLY the same as if you used an altar, in, say, lumbridge to restore prayer between your bandos runs. Only it's actually in the godwars and you get an extra 16 prayer points, which, in reality, isn't THAT useful. Yes, people can use the altar to basically stay at aviansies forever. But let's be truthful. The altar takes 96 Archaeology and 90 Prayer to even use. Chances are if you have these two skills you are high enough to be able to bring bones to peaches, and stay at avianies forever ANYWAY. This is just making it a little easier with less cost. Nothing too spectactual for a high level anyway. I think you're blowing this out of proportion, also. You're trying to make the altar out to be extremely overpowered, when really it just makes things a tad easier and less expensive, which, ultimately, having a high level in a skill SHOULD do. So don't come in here and give me your rant about how Runescape is getting too easy and how much you think the trade limit and gravestones have ruined the game. That is an argument best left for a different time. Archaeology's purpose is to be useful and a good money maker. We haven't had a great money maker since Slayer or Runecrafting, and it's about time we get one. Oh, and 750k an hour is achievable with Graahks while runecrafting natures at 91 rc, 600-700k gp an hour is now achievable easily at 85 mining now that pvp is back. (Rune has raised in price immensely since then, causing rune mining to increase in profit by over 66%.) 600k an hour is also easily obtained by killing spiritual mages for dragon boots, which requires slayer. And if you tack on harvesting ranarr or snapdragon herbs at the same time as one of the previous said money makers you increase that profit by about 100k an hour. My point is, there are at least 3-4 skills we already have that enable extremely large amounts of profit per hour. This skill should be no different. Archaeology is supposed to be known as THE money making skill. That is the angle I'm taking with it. It's ok if you think this is overpowered, but I'm not going to change it just because you think it's too overpowered. It's really not, and I can tell you this from first hand experience of having skills at very high levels. I have personally made 600k an hour within 60 minutes of rune mining. With granite mining you can achieve 40k mining exp an hour, which is faster than a lot of other non-buyable skills, so 85 mining really doesn't take that long to get. And there are well over 25k people who can attest to that. People want updates that help them. They want a high leveled skill that's ACTUALLY useful. They don't want a skill where their near hunreds of hours of training go unrewarded. If you train a skill to a level such as, in this case, 96, why shouldn't you be able to make a small aspect of your playing experienced considerably less stressful and slightly less costly?

It's buyable, yes, but it still takes weeks to get enough charms for 99. Also, charms are a stupidly common drop from a lot of monsters. If you made them tradable, the prices would be rediculously high. I'm talkin' like 5k per crimson charm and probably 10k and up for a blue. People could go to waterfiends, get near 100 crimsons an hour and make 500k and upwards just from the charms, not including the alchs and noted items they drop. Also, people who bursted at rock lobsters would make a profit from doing so, which really isn't what bursting is intended to do (unless you're pking with it.) I disagree strongly. Besides, it's not THAT hard to collect your own charms. So just don't be lazy. The skill is meant to be difficult to train and very expensive. That means only hardworkers and extremely rich people obtain 99. It should stay that way.

Easily fixed. I'll make it so that when you go down into the altar you lose your KC. Simple and done. And I just want you to know it would not be the fastest way to make money. It would be decent, yes, around the same as 85 Mining once you hit about level 90, but I would not say it would be the fastest method, just an extremely good one. Unless you get a Dragon 2h every hour at level 96 (which is highly unlikely, as it has about a 1 in 1,000 chance of obtaining) you probably couldn't make more than 600k an hour with this skill. Which, I won't lie, is very good, but you've got to be high leveled, and, let's face it, we need a new money making skill.

Building add-ons to your boat, spotting new land, traveling through storms, finding treasure, and the list goes on... Seriously, the only thing making you people think Sailing is a bad idea is your lack of imagination. Bingo. A large population of Runescape is now preteens and children up to the ages of 15-18. We know this as Jagex has stated in news articles about how Runescape is being aimed towards a younger population. Either way, since there are so many children and teenagers playing, we get a lot of ignorant know-it-alls coming in and completely denouncing even a simple idea because their minds can't handle the fact that perhaps an idea can be more than what they see it as in their mind. Think of it this way. You take the same route to school everyday by walking. It takes you 20 minutes to do so. However, one day you meet the person who lives next door to you, and they tell you of a better route to get to school that only takes 16 minutes. Even though you didn't know of this route, it still existed. It took the other person for you to be able to realize your way of walking to school wasn't the ONLY or the most efficient way to get there. So saying the above, I think it's safe to say that just because people try to say Sailing will only be about sailing to an island and that's it, and that it will be lame and not useful, doesn't mean there aren't ways to make the skill much more than that, and far more appealing. Archaeology was long thought to be a lame skill idea that would only be about digging up rocks, which you should do with mining anyway, however, I took a different route and made a skill suggestion for the skill, which over 300 people have supported strongly. (And actually, before the forums got wiped out I'd probably have 500 supporters by now). So that just goes to show you that just because you think there's only one way to go about making the Sailing skill, doesn't mean it can't be something completely different from what you originallu thought it would be.

All fo those things sound real nice when you are TALKING about them, but they would be much more complicated to actaully implement. Please, explain to me how it would be difficult to implement something as simple as new resources to cut/mine/fish/slay/make, etc. I agree with him. Sailing has much potential that ignorant players seem to be overlooking. In my experiences anyway, most people who really choose to "hate" a skill are people who love combat more than skilling, aren't very high in total, or, quite frankly, are just 15 year olds who can't have viable opinions of their own because they don't research and/or think something through in its entirety. I'm not saying you have to approve of the skill. But if you choose to "loathe" an idea, threaten to quit RS if the skill were released, and/or disapprove of an idea, you should at least have some constructive criticism to back it up. It's like people who say "Sailing would be SO lame. Sailing to an island? How is that fun?" don't really stop and think that perhaps the skill could be more than just sailing to an island. It could include building a ship (and being able to own a nice, larger, more expensive ship with higher levels), pirating and looting other ships, searching for treasure out at sea, allowing access to new islands where new slayer monsters, trees, rocks, fish can be caught. There's so many amazing possibilities for the skill I just can't understand how people can threaten to quit over it.

I think you'll all be happy to know I updated the Supporter list (finally). Our supporter number went from 231 to 313! Let's hope I never take that long to update the list again. =-p

I think it should be against the rules to post misleading titles here on Tip.It. By naming this thread "Dragon Claw's Demise," it's as though you want the majority of people to freak out before they even read the thread and go sell their claws so the price begins to fall. This just sounds like an attempt to price manipulate through rumors if you ask me. I don't even own Dragon Claws, but I see what one idiot can do to a massive amount of players if they word a thread the correct way. (Or, in my opinion, the INcorrect way.)

No, I disagree. Total level is THE way to show the best developement of a character. A character with a high total level has invested time and money into those levels. Level 84 Runecrafting/Slayer/Mining/etc...those are not easy skills to level. As a person with 2,200+ total and almost all 85+ skills, I can tell you that Total Level is definitely NOT overrated, and in fact, should be given more praise than it currently is.

I think you'll be happy to know this idea is already in the works and is almost finished. It is similar to what you have said but actually more improved and with more familiars.

Hehe...while I like the accurate thinking, I don't think we need to get THAT picky over rock sample rewards. I mean, if it's possible for a Dragon to be randonly holding on to herbs that it will drop when you kill it, I don't think it's too farfetched to have a rock sample hold an herb seed. =-p But thank you for the support.

Farming was confirmed a couple months before release. Summoning has been in the grape vine, confirmed since 2001. Construction has been in the grapevine, confirmed since 2001. Nobody talked about Hunter until it was announced. Nobody talked about Slayer until it was released. I fail to see how any of your points backup your overall point. You don't make a valid point out of saying "Well if they didn't think about it, they sure are now". There's no proof sailing or Archaeology is coming out, and I'd sure like to have your worry-free life if you can spend your time waiting for valiant Jagex to come prove you right. I made a thread in 2006 linking to the Knowledge Base, where i found a headed article "Construction". My thread pointed out that the skill would not be carpentry, the rsc name, but Construction, as pointed out by the page. Jagex changed the page to say "Nothing to see here", my thread was locked, and I was reprimanded for abusing pages Jagex didn't want us to see. I was right. The difference between us, is that I actually had proof, and I'm not referring to grainy pictures and nondescript . The only thing you did in that post is prove my points further. Changing your phrasing and saying the skills were "in the grapevine" is the same as saying they were rumored, talked about, fought over, ect ect. You had no proof of hunter until about 1-2 months before released. It still happened. Jagex hid it from everyone more carefully than they did previous skills. Sorry hun, but just because the almighty Omali hasn't cracked any codes yet doesn't mean something can't be in the making or on the way. Jagex announced Summoning to help keep people from quitting over the trade limit update. A smart individual such as yourself should be very aware of that. They don't necessarily have to announce the next skill if they chose to keep it under wraps.

The only thing the altar would do is slightly increase the exp you gain an hour and the cost of prayer down to 1/3 of it's normal cost. I say that if we can slash Construction and Crafting and Smithing's cost down drastically that there should be no reason as to why this should be any different. Especially since this idea requires almost 10M exp in the Archaeology skill. Ancient Trowels DO give a slight increase in rare rewards. I already stated that pretty clearly in the first post. As for them breaking, if you want that idea to be acceptable, then let's make the Dragon Axe breakable again.

Haha...don't we all? And congrats. I am going to for 99 as well. Currently about 440k from 98, so it's coming up on me soon hopefully. Good luck to you and all your slayerrring. =-p

-10/10 Why even post this? For the Crafting level? Call the thread 67 Crafting because everyone and their dog can do this quest in 5-10 minutes tops.

Let me be the first person to respond. Click the Archaeology Suggestion in my signature and if you want post a link of it in your post. I don't think Archaeology will be the NEXT skill but I do believe it will be released.

I plan to laugh at all of you when Sailing is actually released. Sorry to say, but every skill in the past that people have said "were only rumors and would be lame," came out. Farming. No one thought it would be cool to plant a seed and watch it grow. Did it happen anyway? Yes. Summoning. People made rumors about it for years. Did it happen? Yes? Player Owned Houses. Did people talk about them since RSC and expect them to eventually be released? Yes. Did it happen? Yes. Construction came out. Did people think Hunter would be lame and exactly like Slayer? Yes. Did it still come out? Yes. So, I'm sorry for telling you, kiddies, but if rumors have spread this largely over the community of Runescape players and it has caught THIS much hype, even if Jagex wasn't planning on making it before, they sure as hell are thinking of it now. I give it a year tops. We'll have Sailing soon enough. Just wait and watch.

Well, my blog needs a good bumpin', so I'm here to do so. =-p Also, just to update, I've been slaying when I can play. Lately it's been hard to as winter break is over and I'm now in my Musical Showcase for my school, which takes a huge amount of time. But never fear, I'm keeping up with penguins and try to do at least 1 or 2 slayer tasks a day, so hopefully 98 Slayer will be here soon along with *crossing fingers* 95 Summoning. Right now I'm 445k from 98 Slayer and I believe about 600k in charms from having 95 Summoning banked. Yay for monkeys and iron titans. lol.

You are a disgrace to high levels. How on earth you even have any patience to play Runescape at all with that attitude is beyond me, but Summoning is one of the best updates of the year, if not one of the best updates Runescape has EVER seen. You may train it like RC, but when using your charms to summon you are able to receive exp at up to 750k exp an hour. So while collecting charms may be time consuming, the actual using of them is rediculously fast. Also, if you were a SMART player, you'd train Summoning alongside Slayer, and then you wouldn't spend a dime on the skill. In fact, you'd make profit. Also, the charm drops aren't as random as most rare drops from boss monsters. They have a steady drop rate. I always make between 50-60 Crimsons every Abyssal Demon task of 150-199. So trust me, hun, they aren't that random. Yes, sometimes the familiar (they aren't called summons) can interrupt what you are doing, but if you were a good player you'd know the ways to get around that. I'm not going to divulge simply because you don't deserve to know if you haven't already figured them out, but come on, use your head. Cats were there simply to annoy you when people brought them in. Familiars fight for you, giving them an actual use. Also, yes, one of the only things I agree with you on is the fact that sometimes you don't always click your familiar, but perhaps this could be one of the updates Jagex makes in 2009 like they are talking about. If you want it fixed, tell them instead of griping about it on the tip.it forums. Summoning gives combat levels because EVERY familiar adds to your combat. You have to be a complete moron not to see it. First off, any beast of burden gives you the ability to hold more food, potions, or armor. This means that while on monster hunts, tasks or in pvp, you are at an advantage over someone who is the same combat level WITHOUT a familiar. Healing familiars such as the unicorn or bunyip are essentially free food and can also be considered insane defense. If you take an average of 8 hp (bunyip) or 12 hp (unicorn) per minute away from the damage a monster or player can do to you, without wasting inventory spots on food, then my god, how can that possibly BE any better? That's an insane ability. If they added a "restore hp x8 prayer" you'd use it ALL the time AND wouldn't have any problems knowing that it's adding to your combat because it's prayer, right? Familiars should be able to fight in single combat, I do agree. But Jagex has their reasons for doing this. Whether they think it'd be overpowered or that it would make things too easy or what, it's their decision. And most spots when doing slayer that are single combat you'd be better off using a healing familiar anyway. And to counter your last rediculous remark, did you ever stop think what would happen if Jagex made their defense and hitpoints a lot lower? People WOULD attack them, and they WOULD die, and using a familiar would be absolutely useless. Familiars were designed to be a COMBAT BOOST, much, much, much like prayer. It means that usually 1 out of every 2-4 attacks against monsters or 1 out of every 3-4 attacks against players will hit, and increase your max amount of damage done that turn. Try this little experiment: Go to a training spot where you normally can kill over 100 of the monster per hour and take your best familiar. (In this case, your geyser titan) Make sure it is multi-combat. Use your familiar at all times while attacking the monsters yourself. See how much exp you got and how much exp your familiar got for you (meaning, train with melee and use a ranged familiar, aka your geyser) and see how much it totals up to be. Now, do the same thing for one more hour MINUS the combat familiar. Just you. See how much exp you made. You probably made about the same that YOU made the previous hour, but without the added exp the familiar made for you. For me, this usually totals about 4-12k exp depending on what familiar I use and on what monsters. If I can increase the exp I get by up to 12k an hour with a familiar, then I would say Jagex has every RIGHT to make the skill raise your combat level. So for God's sake, why don't you equip yourself with some intelligence and maybe research things before you really judge. Something in my gut tells me you don't ever take combat familiars out with you to even know how useful they are. It's the players today. A lot of them are like you. Ungrateful for the fact that Jagex is constantly making this game easier for them by adding updates such as Summoning, and never satisfied with what they are given. Go play WOW if that's who you are. [/hide] Actually i agree with trembake, Summoning is a pretty good concept, and would be a great skill, sure theres many non combat familiars and all that, but its really not that useful in combat considering the time it takes to train the skill. For example, i would say summoning is harder than prayer to train, now i have 42 summoning, and 43 prayer. Summoning gives the same combat levels as prayer, and yet prayer is about 10 times more useful for me, the damage is like 7, and when training on monsters it takes 10 years to actually start attacking in which the monsters basically already dead. The AI is stupid, they walk around like idiots, don't attack, can't be used effectively with range and mage, can't be used in a single combat area (why?, its not that strong anyway) and to top it off they do hopeless damage. Sure, if jagex increased damage BY A LOT and decreased HP BY A LOT, people might attack the familiars, but if it was balanced, as opposed to stupidly high defense and hp like it is now, people would use summoning more often. No monster ever brings my familiars even close to death. Summoning charms can only be gained effectively at a higher level, it is in effect a very high level exclusive skill. No other skill i can think of is so limited in its options that you need to either spend millions with ice burst, or have an extremely high level to actually level up properly. Hardly any low level monster has a decent drop rate of charms. It just dosent happen, I'm almost better off waiting for genie lamp's than actually training summoning. Not only that, there is basically no useful combat familiar until level 57, i mean come on, its a combat skill, why is it only half useful when your at 57 summoning. Why are their such limited options in terms of scroll hats, and why are most of them fighter related, where are mage hats? Oh yea i forgot, they don't exist. Try using summoning in practice while training. At least at my level, which is low. I often safe spot monsters, and sunrise the familiar can't help, Or its a single combat area surprise! Familiar can't help again, and if I'm versing something i don't safe spot by the time my familiar attacks, not only dose it normally hit a zero, the monster is basically already dead. So yes, i have a good reason for not liking summoning, it really isn't that useful. Why can't they just attack when you attack, Is it really so hard to do? Why can't they get half way decent AI. Why is it so unbelievably hard to get charms. Sorry, summoning WOULD be a great skill. Unfortunately it isn't. You're summoning is not even level 50 yet. You OBVIOUSLY haven't put much time into training it if you think it's hard to level in. Did you know that I can get 100k Slayer exp and the charms I've gotten from drops along with that 100k slayer exp equal near 133-150k summoning exp? Summoning is EXTREMELY easy to train. Not only that, but you can make 2,000 pouches per hour with the spirit kyatt familiar. 2,000 Geyser Titan Pouches (level 89 Summoning using blue charms) would get you about 1,500,000 experience. IN ONE HOUR. So while collecting charms is a little more time consuming, using them is rediculously fast. The AI is fine. Just click the whistle button the second you attack a monster and your familiar will attack it as well. As for them doing hopeless damage, that just shows how pathetically misinformed you are. Summoning adds more attack and strength to your average damage per attack than prayer does. Don't believe me? Do what I said and test how much exp per hour you make with a familiar over without it. Oh, and P.S. The Helm of Neitiznot stores scrolls. That is MELEE helm. Actually, the most commonly used melee helm aside from the slayer helm now when it comes to higher levels and monster hunting. Also, the Rune Full Helm stores them, as well as the dragon med helm. The list goes on beyond this as well. Sorry, but no matter how you try to pick at the little, insignificant things, people who have more experience in the skill than you do will tell you you're wrong. You may not LIKE the skill, which is fine. You don't have to. But to say it's useless or not very useful is just showing how much of an ignorant, badly experienced player you are.

Get 89. The Geyser Titan is the first combat titan that is actually worth it. :) I love the cash pile. It makes me sad. lol.

Glad to see people out there who like to give attention to all their skills. You seem to be following in the same path I took as well. Right now I'm only 2 Agility levels from all 85+, but I'm also like 500k from 98 Slayer, so I want that first. =-p Good job. I'll rate this a 70/99.

He was probably doing Slayer. Nice. I give that a 10/10 seeing as how I haven't ever gotten a Basilisk head. (Though I've gotten 3 Abyssal Demon Heads and 2 KBD Heads...go figure.)

Oh em gee! Use those charms! You probably have near level 85 in charm right now. =-p

Get that Attack up! Makes me sick! But very nice 99s. :D