n64jive

Hey Guys, I'm making a comeback to this game. I'm buying Diamonds (cut) and Adamant bolts. PM on here to set up a transaction. I'd like at least 500 per transaction. Thanks

Look at the food market. Specifically produce. Prices are always fluctuating, often doubling or halving in price within a couple of weeks. At least when you buy a consumer good on runescape, it doesn't immediately drop 25% in price (which is mainly due to their is no such thing as used/new in runescape). And the reason prices fluctuate so rapidly is because the information of the price of an item is always given to us. If i'm trying to sell something, and it doesn't sell for a couple of hours, I can lower the price, and vice versa. If for some reason the market seems to be dead for an item, it causes kind a snowball effect. The buyer always buy's for 5% less, and the seller has to constantly lower his price, as the dropping guide prices cause 5% less to be a lower value every day. Now back before the GE, this information wasn't so readily available. Instead, players often just "knew" the prices of things. And this made life easier for everyone, so this "guide price" was often set in stone for months at a time. If jagex only updated the guide price every month, there would very little price fluctuation (however markets would become stale/saturated and no one would be able to see it coming). Regardless, if you compare Jagex's GE graphs to real world stock exchange graphs, you notice the same trends. High volume items go through rapid changes, low volume items tend to change very little. It's all just simple economics. If you can't stand to see your items halve in price(the only ones that do this are raw materials aka produce) sell them if you don't immediately plan to use them. Don't [bleep] when it doubles in price because of some Jagex update (although this is less likely, so selling immediately is usually the better option).

Decided we should have a list of items that are way under. Maybe this will elevate the issue.

How does making the price high not make it "paying to win"...if anything making it low would make it not "paying to win".... If you make it high, there is going to be a larger majority that aren't going to afford it. Thus making it exactly "paying to win"... regardless, it's a bad idea. Loook at EA. No one pays extra for their [cabbage] add-ons that come with the release version of the game (yeah, not even DLC, this [cabbage] comes on disk at the day of release, but you have to pay $10-$50 to unlock the features)....

Bots bro. Black demons = new green dragons. Also rare drops table probably helped herblore, as it brought a bunch more herbs into the game. But yes, bots are the cause of this.

Yes, what was wrong with that? Fallador park + (fansite) forums to trade worked very well! As a player dating back to 2002, my opinion is that the GE works MUCH better. Maybe a little bit of regulation isn't a bad thing, but when i can cut 500 diamonds in 10 minutes, and then have to wait another 230 minutes before I can buy more. It becomes a pain in the ass. These limits are set to combat price manipulation, not hinder the use of the GE for normal players. In terms of you're items falling in price, that's economics bro. Get use to it, as you'll find it happens to ALMOST everything you buy in real life.

Still can't log in....

I don't like the regulations. If a clan of wealthy players tries to buy the item, yes the market price for that item will increase assuming it does actually create a demand. However this will lead more people to gather these resoruces(or bots), which will bring the prices back down. I would also not mind seeing a modified system where you only get priority on an item for so many items. This way, rich player A can't buy max essense(in your case) 2 weeks ago, and get priority over the item because his offer is earlier. He would get priority for the first x amount of essence, and then would be moved to the bottom of the queue, while the order above him are processed. If he is the only person buying essence, then he would continue to fill his order, however that scenario is vary unlikely.

This makes the most sense....

I'm going to keep this short. I was training crafting/fletching the other day via gem cutting, and I always kept hitting the 500/hr buying limit. It's very annoying. Jagex really needs to increase this, as it's not the first time I've ran into this problem. List of items that are under-stocked Item-Stock Gems-500 Buckets-100 // terrible for ecto Bolts-10k // Making enchanted bolts anyone else?

I don't think you understand probabilities. Yep. A particular duel's outcome is not determined by the previous duel's outcomes. Every duel is just as likely to win as any other duel, given that all other factors remain equal. Yeah but still given a 50/50 chance of winning/losing, it would be something like this. 0.5x0.5 = 0.25 which is the chance of losing both times, because there are 4 outcomes that are all equally possible. (WW WL LW and LL, with a 25% chance of each option.) So by this logic losing 17 times in a row, given its a 50/50 chance is something like 0.000763% chance, because theres something like 131072 options. (WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWL... ect.) Although it is still true that the next duel has a 50/50 chance of being lost/won. What he said, i do understand probabilities, im just saying. i could of won the lottery with that percentage. :P chance of winning the lottery = 5.26*10^-9 chance of losing 17 times in a row, by your odds = 0.00000762939453125 or 7.63*10^-6 ie, you are 1000x less likely to win the lottery, or rather the odds of winning the lottery are equivalent to flipping a coin 34 times and having them all land on heads. However, as said, each event is independent of eachother. Losing 17x in a row has the same odds as winning 17x in a row and the same as losing 12x then winning 4 times then losing again... That was a long post. I think you get it. I'm not trying to say you don't understand this, I believe you do. I just figured the true math may actually baffle you.

Yep, staking someone with equal stats as you is the same as flipping a coin. There really is no way to gain an advantage. High defense seems to be the key to winning non-balance stakes, however you're results prove different, mainly because you don't include Jagex's formula into you're code. If you knew this algorithm, than the answer would be yes, you could simulate duels, however they would be just that, simulations. Plus many people find ways to gain an advantage, mainly via cheating. The key to staking is that it takes capital to earn capital. So even with a max account, there is possiblity of a bad run, which is why so many people get cleaned. End note, staking is not a good way to earn gp. The only way to get ahead is to get lucky, and the best way to get lucky is to do one big stake against someone with equal stats, and then go back to whatever it is that you are doing. Watch NightmareRH's youtube video, he did it right. He was even at a disadvantage(the other player had better stats), and still manage to get lucky. I'm sure he hasn't tried staking since.

whoa whoa guys. It's a game. Chillax

I heard it veng's up to 50 ppl. So you get 50 ppl dd'ed in multi. Someone cast barrage or whatever, and boom, you're koed.

Once a method for stopping bots is discovered, it's only a few lines of code that scripters/programmers need to add to their bots in order to fix them. For instance, people used to lure Range guild bots. The bots now eat, tele, or run when in combat. You can no longer stop these bots. Marker plants cover up Aubury, however he still exist in the menu. Bots that access the information via the client can still find him via the menu. As you can see, once a method for stopping bots is released, it is fixed within a week, usually within a day.

WAIT! WAIT! WAIT! WAIT! WAIt! WAIt! WAIt! WAIt! WAIt! WAit! WAit! WAit! WAit! WAit! Wait! Wait! Wait! Wait! Wait! wait! wait! wait! wait! wait! Runescape has bots?

This game really has gone to [cabbage] since Free Trade, hasn't it? Bots, scammers, and bug abusers every where you look. Jagex doesn't care-- botters' five bucks are as good as legit players' five bucks, so what's it to them as long as payments aren't fraudulent? I have been happily immersed in Dungeoneering, though, so I haven't really encountered much of these issues. I will say that the few times I've tried to do slayer recently, every world I went to was excessively crowded, and at least a few of them had to be bots because the didn't loot anything and moved in predictable patterns. People aren't even scared to openly bot on their mains anymore. Don't blame free trade for this. This is Jagex's fault. It is their job to release glitch-free content. It is also their job to discourage scamming. The game is developed for 13-18 year olds. You can't expect it to have a very mature following...

Quest seem to offer minimal experience for the time you put into them. You should get more xp from quest than grinding, however its the opposite....

I'll agree to cease the argument with sees_all. I'll admit that he is actually pretty intelligent, and sometimes I'm just stubborn. One of my many flaws. Anyway, as for the security deposit idea, I don't like it. Who ever heard of a security deposit for a video game. After all, it's a game. I really think Jagex would have a hard time getting people to fork over an additional funds, even if they are volatile. I think that would be an easy solution to the end of Runescape. I still stand by the best method for removing bots would be to remove the repetitive aspects of the game that make it boring. Take the elder scroll series. You don't have to sit around and fight enemies all day to advance your character. You can simply just play through the game, and you will level up at an appropriate amount. Jagex's game should be more like this (although I will admit that they are two different styles of games). If Jagex could make it so your levels level up as you work your way through the game, OR you have the option of grinding (possible giving less xp then actually performing the task). I dunno though. There are tons of quest, and I absolutely hate quests. 1. They give terrible xp for completing them (generally). 2. Reading dialogue is tedious. Maybe they should work on the audio like they have in their tutorial. Of course then they would have to hire voice actors, adding more cost. I guess the option is the one I suggest of adding additional skill total worlds. I really don't mind bots unless they are competing with me. If they added 1600, 1700, 1800, 1900, 2000, etc. worlds I think it would really make the general public chill less about bots.

*sigh* arguing with you is like arguing with someone who has Aspergers. I'd like to quit talking about the NSA, and rather actually talk about the subject at hand, which is developing a simple algorithm for bot detection. However you keep posting information that rather makes you look like an idiot. So here I go... 1. Quit putting words in my mouth. 2. Again, What does NSA (an national agency) spending billions of dollars on Data Encryption technology(something that has a massive need on a global scale) and research have to do with the subject at hand, Jagex (a much smaller company) developing bot detection software (something of a far lesser complexity on a much smaller scale) for a Video Game? Well, I was merely posting where I had got most of the information from and to show that I have had formal education on the subject matter. By the way, what is your background? Data security is a collaborative study. It is cheap because it's findings are worked on by 1000's of Colleges/other institutions and published. I guess the amount of hours and research that goes into is likely not cheap(which I never said), however you take that value and split it up between 1000s of institutions makes it possible to keep implementation cost low. Wait...why are we talking about this again. Oh, right you like to take things out of context elaborate on them, regardless if it really has nothing to do with the subject at hand. Gotcha. Is there some sort of self-proclaimed high stature that you think you hold with this community? I could care less.

Does the tip.it times have a tabloids section? I believe this would belong in it. Biased media? I think so. Also quoting without sources? And you're year salary assumptions are poor. My background on the matter. I started playing runescape back in 2002. I played without botting up until the point I quit playing the game in 2007 (college). I'm currently a senior working towards a Bachelors in Computer Engineering. After 3 and 1/2 years of college and after going through some tough times with some personal relationships, I decided to come back to the gain as a means of getting my mind off things. Things had changed quite a bit. My main had been banned (I deserved it, I gave it to my cousin to use as I no longer cared, and he had informed me that it was hacked from him. I recovered the account and found it to be banned for macroing). I began playing on one of my old pures(hardly, I spent very little time on it), however I became interested in the new macroing technology. With 3 and 1/2 years of Computer related education under my belt, I decided to learn more about these bots and how they worked. I found a botting community, that shall not be named due to tip.its rules, and at the time I joined the forums, they were going through a developer crisis. One of their best developers wasn't happy with how things were ran, and he decided to start a different community with some other members of the original community (this may get confusing without names, but bear with me). Fortunately for this developer, he had a strong following, and about half the community followed him to his new botting community. He developed a new API, although a lot of it was similar to the old API. I assume he did this to make porting the new scripts a much simpler task. Many members of the old community became enraged by this, and the two communities went to "war". A ddos war. For weeks you couldn't access either commutes website, and this was all shortly after free trade had came out. There was also a mass account hacking around here somewhere, and both communities pointed the finger at the other. At this point, I really quit following it all, and went on with the rest of my life, playing runescape occasionally (school still required quite a bit of my time). I had learned about some of the cash that these developers made, and I knew I would likely enjoy it, however I passed on it as 1. School and my internship required a lot of my time. Time I wasn't sure if I would have for this new "Hobby". I'm not sure how things turned out for either community at this point, however I spent quite a bit of time in the IRC's of both. I can tell you one thing is certain, most of the developers stated they really didn't do it only for the money. It was a definite bonus, however they originally did it because they enjoyed it. I believe that applies to all faucets of life. Most of us don't go into our choice professions "only" for the money. It is key to our survival, however most of us like to do something we also enjoy. TLDR: I feel like the OP article was biased and I feel like he may have even made up quite a bit of it. Also, I feel the assumption he made are poor as their is operating cost to these websites. There is multiple developers. The money is shared (although not equally) by many of the contributing members of the community.

1. The NSA does more than just R&D. In fact, I would guess that they contract most of their R&D out. 2. Total Budget != R&D Budget. NSA is similar to the military, and I'm pretty sure part of the branch is tightly related to military operation. Also do you have top secret clearance? You don't? me neither. My friend does, but he still has no clue what the NSA spends their money on. So go ahead and estimate their net budget. It doesn't really grant any you compelling argument. 3. Why don't I just link you to my professors website. http://ceen.unl.edu/yqian/Teaching/S11/4910_8950/ceen4910_8950.htm. So yes, I have L2History. Either way it's a crappy argument. Astrology is thousands of years old. Therefore NASA has working on getting the Rover to MARS for at least that long...:/ Every idea has a root. Just because the Greeks used to cipher their messages using cryptography doesn't mean you can say that it takes thousands of years for good algorithms to develop. Hmm, so if I have experience as a little league coach, I should probably get my resume into the Yankees. I mean, their is that parallel between them. My entire point was that the research concluded on Data Security at a national level is at least 1000x more complex then developing macro detection software. I hate cliches, but you're comparing apples to oranges. Btw, the parallel between them is they are both fruit, in case I needed to spell that out for you. Oh, and the point of the cliche is even though they have a few things in common, there is far more differences. I agree with this, although I believe it states the obvious.... After all this, I'm just going to agree to disagree with you. I feel like we are both wasting our time as we are both obviously stubborn people.

Not a bad idea. Simple record/playback action that maybe could run 10 minutes max...Runescape is grindfest. Everyone knows it. Nobody likes it. Playing the game feels more like a chore/job in which you pay for. It's worse than going to school, because at the end of 4 years, you have nothing to show for. Only issues I see is the "pest control" problem. Ie, players will [bleep] that the new system makes the game too easy when they had to do it the old fashion way. I never liked this argument. I've been playing since 2002, and I wouldn't [bleep] one bit if I spent 2 years getting 99 slayer, and Jagex decided to update it to make it easy. Maybe a little annoyed, but I'm not a selfish [wagon]. This games problem is the grind. If they chose to remove it even after I maxed my account, I would understand. Another suggestion I have is add more worlds like the 1500 skill total world. Maybe make a 1750, 2000, 2250...etc. (Btw, what the max level is, and I'm too lazy to look it up, so if 2250 is over that..sue me)... I think the biggest complaint people have with macroing is that it disrupts their gameplay.

Alas, seems like more [cabbage]. Sources? 2 million? considering that's about the same number of Jagex active players within the last 2 years, I hardly see that being true...

I didn't realize that the National Security Agency was a business. :rolleyes: Also, these security standards were an iterative design - that is to say that AES didn't come out of nowhere. It may have taken two guys to think of something, but they were only in the position to do it because they were standing on the shoulders of giants. Is that the only part of the thread you read and then decided to just post on it. My point wasn't what those companies are, and yes, the NSA is really just a government ran business. Now if you can get off symantics, you will see that most of the research done on this is by Graduate Students for different colleges/Universities around the world. And regardless of all of that, it still disproves the fact that you seemed to be pulling information out of your ass. 1. It doesn't cost millions/billions for data security development. 2. Jagex isn't working on securing data, they are working on an algorithm to catch bots in a game. Not even close to of the same complexity.