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but you'll want to use a wolpertinger for mage level bonus (but i guess mono doesnt have that) oh and scratch the proselyte hauberk, i knew it gave a mage atk decrease, but -30 is a bit much. just use a monkrobe top instead. still id just use prayer because for beasts of burden, so you can at least carry some magic potions. that and deflect melee can boost your kill rate minisculy it's not like prayer will be more expensive than unicorns. You seem to severely overestimate the combat capability of abyssal demons- they aren't black demons, abyssals are one of the weakest melee monsters for their level. A bunyip will do just fine with max mage equipment, using an arcane stream would be very useful, other things are normal mage gear, ahrims, sol, mages book as you con't afford arcane, don't even need to use mage prayer.

At around 90 mithril dragons an hour(assuming maxed equipment, overloads) you get around 340 charms an hour, most of which will be green(~50%), then 25% gold and 20% crimson, which is certainly not anywhere close to ct waterfiends, which give 200 crimson an hour(faster and cheaper xp). Certainly not worth it for the charms.

Dragon bone burying used to be 180k prayer xp an hour last time i did that, and i assume it's the same now. Altaring should be around 1100-1300 bones an hour with yak. Ectoing dragon bones used to be 30k xp an hour last time i tried that.

You overrate accuracy WAY too much. Sure, by an exmple of 2 hits, totally out of context, accuracy might seem a bit better in your mind. You know what? test it. Your ~rant is all but speculation that never really holds true. If you look at the hourly experience rates, that's where the truth lies- berserker(i) >>> onyx(i) for anything up to graar, which is quite alot of defence already. Cls and rapier have the same accuracy for 90% of the slayer monsters, so accuracy is clearly overrated(for high end atleast, but that's who the bersrerker ring is meant for). Warrior ring is now completly useless, onyx only being good if you need the extra defence and are using multiple attack styles, berserker for any only melee combat up to average defence(graar). For ffa, highest str bonus is best because you need to deal the most damage on a single monster- dealing average damage on every corp is nice but completely useless.

37 minutes AVERAGE really? at around 5 steps average per step, that's 8 minutes per step, and none of the steps take that much(the elvish lord is the longest at ~6 minutes with good puzzle solving(around 3 minutes). 37 minutes is completely unrealistic unless you are really poor at clue solving, 15 minutes average was reported by enrix e b(who has ~10 sets of every clue armor but for 3rd age), so if you are good at TTing level 4 clues shouldn't take much more than 30 minutes, the 300k average seems about right.

Hopefully they'll have high level thieving, etc ways to get level fours as well. That's right, forgot you can thieve for clues, as well. ;) The problem with thieving is that the only level at which something like this could be obtained at would be 99, and still be very rare at that, with sufficient risk involved(maybe pharoh spectre like) and still those low levels would have to face level 150+ guthix wizard that would even need preparation for maxed people. I doubt these clues are meant to be completed by low levels. Also, if you really are a tresure trail enthusiast, how can you not be high leveled? Doing an enormous amount of level one clues really doesn't make you an expert, and to obtain clues now at any rate you need to be good at combat. As for the common droplist of level 4 clues, that really is an interesting question, dragon weapons that are buyable from stores would make sense, but dragon armor drops shouldn't be too common from them. A fury(t) is very likely, some new rings would also be welcome.

Errm, the new clues will be, by their design, a boss monster drop, and as far as clue scrolls go(higher level scroll from a higher level monster) it makes sense for it to be like this, and though i speculated about them being dropped by some campable monsters, it's not likely as these scrolls are meant to be the rarest and the hardest yet released. It's quite like the effigie update- every level 3 skiller recieved only a small portion of the update, but as the game is significantly combat based, this is ok. Another boarderline possible way to introduce these clues would be to make them dropped by daemonheim boss monsters- the harder the monster the better chance of recieving a clue, with elite scrolls only coming from 5:5 large f30+ dungeons, would make daeminheim bosses more worthwhile.

I think you are forgetting that jagex is always more or less predictable, thus allowing us to make educated guesses about the upcoming update and be certain atleast half of it can be true though i agree that they have been quiet about this. As for camping monsters, i agree that it would be tough if DK's or TD's would drop them, it would just be another added bonus to a place that really doesn't need that. However, i do think mithril dragons and KBD-s should drop them as the drops right now aren't rewarding enough. High level revenants would make sense as droppers as they can hardly be camped, i even though they could revive some old minigames with these, like being able to get these clues from silver key chests. Untradeable rewards wouldn't really be anything jagex'esque.

60 kills/hour is unrealistic. It's possible to hold that average for a while with frequent Restore Special doses and Dclaw specs, but not forever, and only a few players could or would want to use that method. As for the actual clues, I'm hoping that the clue scrolls will be rare enough so that each one can be a significant piece of gameplay. Steps should take longer (more secluded locations, must go through dungeons, etc) and the entire clue should take a noticeable amount of time. That will justify that each clue can guarantee a significant amount of money. The numbers for the most efficient bosses to kill are maximums assuming rapier, overloads super restores etc etc without banking, so that's why they would seem very high. For TD-s, with steel titan, 60 an hour without banking is very achieveable as you are not limited to one spawn(which is what limits kbd-s, kq-s and chaos elementals). And well, I meant the last dagannoth quest, not sure about it's name, havn't done it, but it's said to be hard.

Everyone lags in w117(i live very close to sweden), that's the whole point why jagex can't make a dungeoneering specific world- the dungeons are very bandwitch heavy(and sometimes you get to trouble with the low amount of bandwitch allowed for a dungeon) thus jagex can't let all the people to clog up one server, or even allow bigger dungeons for soloers.

As this has yet to thoroughly be discussed on these boards and to get a heads up on the upcoming rework to clue scolls, it seems appropriate for me to open this discussion on the new age of clue scrolls. [hide=history]Firstly, some things about the history of clue scrolls. Tresure trails were released shorly after the release of RS2 in 2004 as a healthy distraction to training hardcore combat- as the droprates have remained the same trough the history, every ~100 kills on greaters(at greater cage, of cource), hellhounds you would recieve a scroll, and as at the time the rewards were expecive enough to be worth the time spent for even the highest levels of players, people rushed off to complete the scroll and hope to recieve something valueable, maybe, even, the godly robin.... fast forward a few years, the second batch of trails was released, but this time, the update wasnt that great- The list of clue droppers had got much bigger with the addition of slayer and when training slayer, people didnt bother leaving a task to do a clue anymore. So to try and fix this, get people to do clues again they tried and missed with the new clues- clues got slower to do as coordinates could be in any part of the world, more fishting monsters within the clues and you had to bank alot of junk to do them- so you would guess that the rewards would have got significantly better as well, wouldnt you? but youd be wrong. Apart from some new prayer equipment(including prayer books, which seem the only really useful clue rewards nowadays) and third age equipment, which was more rare than finding a needle from a haysack, the average reward profit remained approximately the same, so clues, in time, instead of making a strong return, faded off completely....until now.... For the upcoming update, id rather exclude the new level 1-3 clues from this discussion as they are still very unlikely to be worthwhile for most people(as you dont get any xp doing them). The fact that every clue will contain a tresure trails specific item still doesnt make them worthwhile as they are all lilkely to be firelighters(who ever thought of them, how daft do you have to be?) or some candy...[/hide] For the first important point about the upcoming new(elite) clue scrolls, and more than likely most important, is the droppers. Clue scroll droprate for most monsters is commonly 1/50-200 and i wouldnt expect a suprise in that department, but the clues on which monsters will drop there is still mostly unknown- Confirmed droppers: [hide]Bork(level 267)- limited to once per day Skeletal Horror(level 320)- limited to once per week limited, as i would say, so now we have to desifer what jagex understands as High-level boss monsters[/hide] Very likely droppers: [hide]Corpral beast(level 785)- not likely to be an efficient dropper though... Kril(level 650)- a semi-likely rebirth to zamrok godwars Graardor(leve 624)- a very likely good dropper for most people Zilyana(level 596)- same as graar Kree(level 580)- same as zily Tormented demons(level 450)- it might seem inappropriate to add even more goodies to the droplist to the already very-very good boss monsters, but they would make sense to be on the droppers list, and with around 60 kills an hour, very efficient too Kalphite queen(level 333)- would make sense as a dropper, but very likely not efficient as one, no idea on the kills per hour Chaos elemental(level 305)- not worth discussing Mithril dragons(level 304)- the most efficient potential dropers if you have cls/cr, up to 90 monsters an hour Dagonnoth kings(level 303)- also efficient monsters to kill for these new scrolls, up to ~80 an hour King black dragon(level 276)- yes, these might be making a comeback as droppers of visage and new scrolls, although the slow spawn is hard to deal with, up to ~60 kills an hour.[/hide] Maybe droppers: [hide]Now we are getting into the speculative part of the discussion in how we can understand jagex. Though there arent any more boss monsters left(not mentioned on the adventures log) it would likely make sense to make some of there, following monsters drop these clues aswell, though at a reduced rate. Steel dragons(level 246)- low rewarding monster in need of an update, but often killed due to kurdal dungeon Phoenix(level 235)- another daily monster jagex likes Giant mole(level 230) a boss monster for the lower levels, would make little kids happy Black dragons(level 227)- seriously in need of a droplist update, apart from 100% drops and slayer, you should never kill them Brutal green dragons(level 227)- a great idea as a monster, but the killing difficulty and drops make them very unrewarding Ice strykewyrms(level 210)- as these can only be killed while on a slayer task, they couldnt be camped for the clues too much, but the drops are alrady very rewarding Living rock patriarch(level 200)-a good idea as a dropper if the rate is any good, would make the slayer task more worthwhile Iron dragon(level 189)- same as steels, but less likely to be a dropper Dark beasts(level 182)- the lowest level I could fathom the droppers to be, and as the drops right now arent very good, being able to kill 170 an hour, they arent too likely to drop these[/hide] There are a few more monsters that could be potential droppers but they dont really fit the words jagex has stated as of now(though jagex says alot of ****, as far as they are concerned, abyssal demons might be considered very high level bosses). [hide=second]The second question everyone is wondering is the rewards and the profit made from the new clues- now ofcource they are likely to make much more money than any previous clue, but the fact that you have to kill a load of very high level monsters to even have a chance of recieving a clue scroll the reward rate should atleast compare to the money you make by boss monster slaying now. The two new rewards we are likely to recieve from the rewards and to be useful are third are prayer equipment, to rival proselyte and ranged armor with a significant prayer bonus, likely to help melee slaying mage based monsters, but there isnt too much information yet released about the rewards just yet and i anyone has any unreleased information about the rewards i would be very interested in them. Apart from the useful items, there is likely to be alot of useless high priced rewards that will be merched hard.[/hide] [hide=third]The third significant topic of discussion about the new clues is the actual tresure trailing- the current time it takes to complete the highest level scroll is around 10 minutes, which isnt really balanced with the risk and the rewarding of those clues, but the new clues are likely to take atleast twice the time and actually challenge the person significantly more- guthix wizards are likely to need significant preparation and new puzzles to take tiwce the time of the old ones, but the rest of the challenges are unknown- i really hope there isnt too many items that you must have in your bank to complete them, but it would make sense to force you to complete the hardest of quests in order of completion(wgs, nomad, blood runs deep).[/hide] And now that ive written all of what i think about the update, id like your ideas on the topic. Discuss.

normal barb fishing, only you alch the fish you catch as soon as you can and then click on the fishing spot again. There is a video about this by zarfot on youtube, so you can search for it there. The xp is certainly more than 60k an hour, but not too sure how much more.

The fastest xp is propably barb fishing alching the fish you get- needs alot of attention, money, but atleast the xp is fast. Also, use granite lob.

It's quite funny how you guys crave for the guide thinking it will make you rich. No merching guide will make you instant good money and you need alot of starting capital(200m+) and experience to do it well enough to substitute for good boss hunting. After earning 6b+ by merching, it's just not always worth it as you are still wasting a lot of time and often dealing with large losses(when some of the people are afraid to mage single tasks when they wouldn't profit every time...) no guide will help you learn to deal with it.

Being limited to small dungeons is not the problem with solo, mediums or even larges would give worse xp soloing then smalls do. And well, i can complete 5-6 small solo dungeons in the time it takes a team to do an average large dungeon, still not the best xp, but if you can't team for any reason, not too terrible.

With scroll of life, torstol just might be the best money. On average, i get 8 herbs per seed(and note the seed part) which is around 60k profit per seed. To get the same profit with any other herb you'd have to get 9 snapdragons/11 avantoes etc per seed... and the xp is so much better.

I'd say, overall, with everything factored in(finding teams, failing with teams etc etc) the 5:5 team xp is around 150% of the xp you would get as a good soloer. The xp differance is quite big, but i'd say well balanced when you factor in that most people don't like teaming and the frustration you would grequently experience while teaming. Only if you have a consistent team of dungeoneering pros would you get 200% of the xp you get while soloing(which is very rare).

All herbs make money, but hen doing snapdragons/torstol, it's suggested to have the scoll of life ability as it affects profits from those herbs much more than any other herbs.

At 125k slayer xp per effigie(which is about the average, no need to post about getting 6 in 200k or what ever, as a training method you need averages) which takes around 3,5 hours to achieve, it's certainly not worth as a training method when you are 200m slayer xp/maxed melee, BUT it's more then a good method when you aren't maxed melee/slayer. an effigie gives 140k xp, and at 3,5 hours per one that's 40k additional and usually hard to get xp an hour on top of the 215k overall xp you get an hour + charms. There aren't really any monsters that drop them frequently enough to be a great training method(as you'd be sacrificing alot of slayer/melee xp at TDs/mithril dragons).

Well, as i've been slaying for effigies myself, the best way seems to be normal slayer coupled with a little task changes- don't do too many low level moster tasks and concentrate on higher level mosters because they drop them much more frequently- so greater demons are a bad task and black demons a very good task, muted tortoises a bad task but steel dragons a very good one. Kill black dragons instead of the baby variants and so on.. And it's true they are about 100-150k slayer xp per on average, though you may get 3 on a task and then none for 800k+ slayer xp, the best droppers seem to be ice strykewyrms, dark beasts, black demons, iron dragons and abyssal demons.

is that a bad thing? zarfots always been like that hes also planning on slyaer before other skills so he can get the full benifit of effigys before maxing a skill he gets like 300k+ rc xp a day from slayer lol It isn't a bad thing, but in the sake of trying to get all 200m FIRST it doesn't do him any good. At one point he will only have slow, unenjoyable skills to hop around that would most likely slow him down(as an example, my total level gains were very fast until i maxed all buyable and fast skills, at which point it became a lot less enjoyable). Is he really using his effigies on rc now? that must mean that he figured out that doing slayer he would already max out all melee plus ranged in due time and won't need the added slayer xp in this... Lan seems to use his effigies on dungeoneering for some reason... elevenicy- just kill 1.5k monsters every day and you will have more than enough effigies to go around.

Old news, hard to see how anyone didn't already know about it, or how much of a rippoff it is. It's not as though money is the major reason people don't get members, and requireing a credit card is just stupid. It would have been a lot better if jagex had made sure in an other way that botters wouldn't abuse this but meh, guess it was a horrible week allround for jagex...

I'd say leaf bladed sword and fire surge with sol kill steels at the same speed, but lbs is a bit better for irons, magic is better for miths. CR >>> everythign else for all and every dragon(92k attack xp an hour on mithril dragons with maxed equipment, no slayer task). Edit, never thought you'd even think of using SoL as a melee weapon...it's certainly not worth it.

I remember getting 250k construction xp an hour with oak dungeon doors years ago when i got 99 construction, and i can't really see any reacent developements that would have changed that...

That floor is complete BS, propably the worst i've seen... If you mine every rock, fish every spot etc, you aren't really training dungeoneering, you are training those respectful skills, but not dungeoneering. The point in training dungeoneering is to complete a dungeon as fast as you can, the number of monsters you kill matters little when you consider the speed on dungeoneering. The monster limit is complete bs as it would be the same as only being able to burn 1000 logs an hour- being punished for being efficient.