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If the increase in the cannons accuracy with armadyl compared to void would be significant enough, yes, you should. However, since i've tested this, void is clearly better. Thanks, i'll look right into it. Any help on making the guide as good as possible is greatly appreciated. Edit: Looks correct to me if you look at it the same way as winds- east winds are defined as winds blowing from east to west.

I think all the demons are weak(er) to stab, hellhounds weak(er) to slash.

I don't think you'd be getting much input if it was 100 dg only but... If you are comfortable with the damage you receive with two binds i would suggest not getting a defensive bind, but rather an offensive one(blood neck, gold pres bracelet, prim boots/gloves, sag short or celestial cat staff). If however you enjoy dungeons more with defense, i would bind a letherbody with 2h(doesn't change accuracy too much) or platebody/guardians ward with baxe.

The problem with telegrabbing is that it works as a combat spells, wasting an attack turn, so it's only be borderline useful for melee- you can pick up bones(and lure dragons in the same process) while not wasting any attack turns.

There are alot of alternatives for the gear. You don't need super antifire, or extremes, but it'd be very helpful getting your herblore up as soon as possible.

I plan on getting 85 dungeoneering after 99 mage, but what would be the harm in getting it first and then maging frosts instead of Abbys? Know a guide or something for fire surging frosts, or is it exactly like Steels/Irons? And the problem I have with the high mage bonus setups is that Abbysal demons are, well, demons, which, as we know, are weak to magic. I'm fairly positive the best setup would be a tank setup with -20+ magic bonus and an EE + wolpertinger for faster kills / less cost per kill? But that's why I made this thread, to find out if I'm wrong. There's a half-decent(at least i think so) frost dragon maging guide linked in my signiture, if you are interested. Maging frosts would also help you in leveling ranged. Abyssals are demons, but that doesn't mean they don't have defense, they just have a very low magic level, and defense against magical attacks is both defense level and magic level, thus a higher magic attack is always better. With a decent enough prayer bonus the cost of prayer potions would be very low. I would suggest always having atleast 70 magic attack bonus.

Since you don't have soul split and can't use overloads, i would go for the zammy book setup, switching arena cape for sw cape(or ardy 3), using wolpetinger, deflect melee and leech magic. If you have the option, i would advise getting 85 dungeoneering and maging frost dragons, as your profit quite heavily from it compared to abyssal demons(where you about break even).

I don't understand what your are talking about. You aren't 100 dg yet, so you'd be left with no armor, let alone a hood, which would make you completely defenseless. Most of the people of 5:5 dungeons bind b-axes or 2h swords anyway so you'd be completely fine against the very few prim/prom warriors you are to encounter in gd's, no need to get mage just because of those. And well, looking at the numbers, even if rapier is 40% worse against primal warriors and bosses, it makes up for it by being 15% better against low defense monsters or stab weak monsters.

Well, i actually looked it up and it turns out kings ransom was released a month before god wars dungeon, making the case that because prayer use became bearable, whip has always been the better weapon for all the boss monsters, meaning that godswords have been outdated since their release- they've always been special weapons, and more or less second rate at that.

It's efficient to use the points to cancel tasks, with kurdal, you get almost enough points to cancel every second task, thus almost allowing you to only do great tasks(or more profitable tasks, if you are looking for money).

Obtaurian, prom spear is almost completely useless next to a primal rapier, with the only real advantage being poison damage(which is rare). If you are considering binding one, you should bind rapier instead(same max hit, 25% faster). A team of primal rapiers wouldn't be completely terrible for occult floors, as there are loads more low defense monsters than on other floors, but the team would struggle against high level melee warriors and some bosses. The team would be somewhat worse for abandoned floors as skeletons require crush, zombies are weak to slash. SirHemen, did you even look at the DPS calculation data? 200 defense max hit means either level 190 defense or 99 defense and 50 defensive bonus, thus either an unarmored monster leveled around 160 or an armored monster leveled around 80, meaning that the rapier is better or the same as 2h/baxe for around 75% of large 5:5 monsters. It's best for any stab-weak monster. Rapier is easily the best for any low floor rushing.

You can also afk with karils+deflect melee, unicorn easily covers the healing needs(if you can't be bothered to ss).

Watched his guide and really, it's more or less a video version of my guide, only he has no idea what luring is. As i said, 195 consistent(this word is here for a reason) is possible with eagle eye, more than 200 with rigour, but it's still somewhat less efficient compared to melee because of the weapon cost(375k an hour for hand cannon, 100k an hour for rapier). Btw, you should use fury(for prayer bonus). I have absolutely no idea why tzhaar own was using accumulator...

I always thought claws would be better. Better spec, and you can do back to back specs very, very fast. By comarpison, you hit one spec with AGS, and even if they were half asleep they would probably have time to food combo. Umm, it's not really hard not to get KO'd when you see a guy using a scimitar, and they'll be useless after they've used their specs. AGS is definitely the better option(also there's a method of ignoring claw spec damage).

My guide is somewhat out of date, but the latest posts should give you every bit of information you need. Some observations: 1) Don't use chaotic crossbow. 2) If you have a decent enough firemaking level, always use hand cannon. 3) Prayer bonus is important. Use sw cape with hand cannon or broad bolts. 4) No need to go crazy with the prayer bonus, use ranging amulet for hand cannon/broad bolts, fury with runite bolts(along with accumulator). I would suggest 3 efficient methods of killing them in the order of best to worst: Hand cannon > Runite crossbow(runite bolts) > Magic shortbow(runite arrows) I'ver personally not yet completed(working on getting rigour right now) my research of ranging frost dragons yet, so i'm not going to update my guide with this information as of yet, but i've been getting 195 consistent kills an hour with hand cannon/eagle eye, almost as much as with melee.

Has a godsword ever been a good weapon apart from it's special? don't think so. In any case, AGS is still useful for edge pking. BGS has it's uses in 4-8 man corping.

Well, actually, would it be a bad idea to have a spreadsheet of efficient moneymaking? makes sense to me if you have enough helpers for it(as i understand how much work would be needed for objective input). As for the programming, i was more or less hoping you would lead(or link) us to a good program, not develop it yourself.

Yes. It's also be interesting to know the c/ph for the most common moneymakers, so if you have a good, low computation requiring program, i could test it out for frost dragons(all 3 combat classes, ofcource).

The efficient way is to mage the monsters with really low mage def, using the highest non-water(unless you have tome of frost) elemental spell available, thus, the best monsters to mage are demons and lower leveled monsters. Also, you should get all the possible mage damage bonuses possible, ie ASN, SoL, wolpertinger/overloads(otherwise you'd be better off slaying with melee and barraging skeletons).

No invisible boost works(which is what this is). Try axemans folly.

just to bring some science into mix, here are some DPS calculations from grimys sheets for the two best weapons(prim baxe and prom 2h) in comparison to the primal rapier, all of which use t8 berserker ring(they all have 2 strength modes): Max hit weapon(style) def DPS 445 Promethium 2H (slash) 10 217,443 20 214,915 40 209,858 80 199,744 160 179,517 320 139,063 640 74,746 1,280 37,373 445 Promethium 2H (crush) 10 216,645 20 213,717 40 207,862 80 196,151 160 172,730 320 125,888 640 64,316 1,280 32,158 411 Primal Battleaxe (slash) 10 239,347 20 235,721 40 228,468 80 213,962 160 184,950 320 126,926 640 63,577 1,280 31,788 411 Primal Battleaxe (crush) 10 239,127 20 235,391 40 227,918 80 212,973 160 183,082 320 123,300 640 61,650 1,280 30,825 350 Primal Rapier (stab) 10 253,448 20 248,922 40 239,871 80 221,767 160 185,560 320 114,844 640 57,422 1,280 28,711 350 Primal Rapier (slash 10 252,404 20 247,356 40 237,260 80 217,067 160 176,683 320 102,539 640 51,270 1,280 25,635 This is without any prayers. Max hit weapon(style) def DPS 580 Promethium 2H (slash) 10 284,821 20 282,232 40 277,054 80 266,696 160 245,982 320 204,554 640 124,609 1,280 62,305 580 Promethium 2H (crush) 10 283,958 20 280,938 40 274,896 80 262,813 160 238,646 320 190,313 640 106,484 1,280 53,242 536 Primal Battleaxe (slash) 10 314,291 20 310,636 40 303,327 80 288,709 160 259,473 320 201,000 640 108,038 1,280 54,019 536 Primal Battleaxe (crush) 10 313,943 20 310,114 40 302,457 80 287,143 160 256,514 320 195,257 640 103,013 1,280 51,506 455 Primal Rapier (stab) 10 331,771 20 327,031 40 317,552 80 298,594 160 260,677 320 184,844 640 93,311 1,280 46,655 455 Primal Rapier (slash) 10 330,909 20 325,739 40 315,398 80 294,716 160 253,352 320 170,625 640 85,313 1,280 42,656 And this is with turmoil, maximum boost. So- without any boosts, rapier will be better or the same as the others up to around level 200 defense. With turmoil, rapier will be better or the same as the others up to 250 defense. And, not to forget, rapier has a stab mode, which makes it very useful to have in a dungeon.

This is the problem with you not understanding efficiency- it is still always the fastest method, but as your goal can vary, efficiency chances too. The efficient method is the fastest method for that specific person that it is found to be efficient, but not for anyone else, thus, it will achieve this persons goals the fastest, but not necessarily anyone elses. Why don't efficiency and subjectivity go together? Things might be subjective between one-another, but not for a single individual, for whom efficiency is calculated. Thus, when you can objectively estimate values for subjective parameters and mix them into an efficiency equation, the method that will be the best will account for it. Thus, it is possible to incorporate things like enjoyability and clicking tension into an efficiency calculation, and if you want absolute efficiency, you have to do that. If you hate training in an efficient way then there are two likely problems- either you didn't account for enjoyability in your choice of methods or the time it takes with a more enjoyable method is far higher than of this specific method. Thus, if it's the second choice, it likely means that there is absolutely no enjoyable way of training that specific skill, and getting it out of the way very fast is the efficient thing to do. Not everything can be enjoyable, but if you use a very fast method for the skills you hate, you save time to enjoy the skills you love. If you hate the method very hard, efficiency would dictate that you shouldn't train it at all, thus making the game more enjoyable. Efficiency being the best way to play this game has nothing to do with telling people how they should play a game. This thread isn't about telling other people how to play, but if they wonder how other people can be better than them spending less time playing the game, efficiency is the answer.

I, and many other very high level slayers, use overloads for every slayer task. As for elite clues, steel/iron dragons aren't bad, or maybe even slayer(if you cancel enough tasks, you can have a chance of elite clue from almost every task).

That post makes no sense at all- Prom spear has the same max hit as primal rapier with berserker t18(spears don't benefit from berserker). Prom spear is 25% slower than rapier. Prom spear has the same slash bonus as rapier. Prom spear has slightly higher stab bonus than rapier. Prom spear has a slightly useful crush attack mode. From that, prom spear can almost never be better than rapier, and is usually much worse. But yeah, i have been using a primal rapier for ages now, even before people found out 2h's were good. As i've said a thousand times, it's good because it's best where other people are at their worst(slow slash/crush vs. fast stab), so, no doubt, it's good for the team. As an overall weapon, however, it's not as good as prim baxe/prom 2h. Also- rapier is the best weapon for rushing low floors.

Longsword is about as efficient for frost dragons as zamorakian spear. That should tell you all you need.