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Bandos is luxury, turm/soul split is next to necessity. 92 prayer is useless, 95 prayer is the best thing in the world(for slayer). You can easily make the money back once you have ss/turm.

You just did a good job proving that you don't actually understand what efficiency is, congratulations on that. Also, i never said efficiency is the correct way to play the game(as it's not, neither is efficiency the right or wrong way to play the game). The problem with all you guys(the guy above me too, Ampharos) is that you have a very narrow minded view on what efficiency is. For most of you, efficiency means cannoning/pietying/overloading slayer and stuff like that. Efficiency has nothing to do with that. An efficient method is a method that achieves your goal the fastest, ALL THINGS CONSIDERED. Yes, ALL THINGS. That means that if you don't enjoy method X, it'd be very unlikely that it'd be the efficient method for you. Efficiency also isn't tied to specific goals- the efficient method will achieve YOUR goal the fastest for YOU, so if you consider enough variables(like xp, money, enjoyability and so on), the efficient method will ALWAYS be the best method, as well as being the BEST way to play the game assuming that you want to achieve anything at all(well, actually, even that isn't a limiting factor, as if you really enjoy the journey but not achieving, methods like killing chickens would become efficient for you). Efficiency does not always dictate doing things fast, but it will always get you there the fastest without sacrificing anything else. If you compare every possible training method to a quadric equation, the efficient method will always be at the global minumum on the time scale.

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jrhairychest, Efficiency is always about getting there sooner, rather than later, regardless if you want it or not- it is the BEST way to play the game, and this point isn't arguable(assuming you consider absolutely everything in determining the most efficient method). This point has nothing to do with what is wrong or right, infact, this whole thread has absolutely nothing to do with what is right or wrong, as it is a completely personal matter, as is if you want to be efficient or not, but if you are to argue that efficiency isn't the best method, you will be wrong. It might not always be desirable to get somewhere sooner rather than later, but if question arises for which method is better, giving someone a method less than efficient is not desirable. There are alot of weird things/people in this world, but it'd be ridiculous to preach your weird beliefs and not be looked upon differently.

Fury kit is actually useful in terms of being used everywhere a normal fury is(which is almost everywhere), where as crowns are almost completely useless. I'm quite sure high level players would want to keep some of their money in such a novelty item.

The problem is, the more you argue, the more people who don't actually understand efficiency come along and try to prove something. There are alot of people on this thread who consider themselves to be inefficient when in actuality, they are efficient, or vise-versa. Why do i consider myself to be efficient? Because, before deciding on doing something, I research a method that fits me the best in terms of xp, money, enjoyability, clicking tension and a load of other factors in order conserve the most time. Efficiency can't be defined as black and white in terms of saying than one method is always better than the other when atleast some of the figures are comparable, so saying that you are inefficient because you do X instead of Y just shows that you don't understand efficiency. I still think that the main reason this thread has gone on for so long is the fact that people just don't understand efficiency, and most of the people that seem to be or are against efficient methods show that in a large number of mindless sentences to try and prove a point. Efficiency can't hurt you, as if it could, it wouldn't be considered efficient. Efficiency is in no doubt the best way to play this game or indeed in real life IF you are looking to achieve something, as it will ALWAYS get you there sooner rather than later. If you are not striving for a goal, efficiency is useless to you, so if you are only playing this game to have fun or want to bag groceries for life, it's fine not caring about efficiency.

Everything will once crash, assuming you allow enough time. It's extremely unlikely, however, that fury kits will crash any time soon as the ge price for them is REALLY low. It really doesn't matter how rare they are from clues as the clues themselves are really rare and it's very cheap to hold on to these. These kits are clearly the best rewards from elite clues in terms of street value as it's convenient to hold it in low value items that can be traded in bulk- you can easily buy a blue hat or even a cracker for fury kits, you can't, however, do it in divine spirit shields. I'd say that they will reach atleast 10m before crashing, which, at this rate, could be another month or two.

At highest levels/highest bonuses, SS is slightly better(~2-3%), but at lower levels/lower boosts, ZS is better. I've actually tested this, by the way.

BA offers the best agility and pure mining xp available- over 100k an hour for both. I'd say that the firamaking one is the least useful, but i'm guessing that the charges last longer...? In any case, training agility/mining/firemaking are some of the least enjoyable activities to do in runescape, so no doubt, in general, doing BA is much better. I don't think you really need full penance to find a good team- afterall, it'd be horribly inefficient to get it. I have no problem finding a team with best melee gear/rapier + lvl 5 attacker.

Good luck pure maging in dunge outside of teams. it's the easiest thing in the world getting ALOT of dungeoneering xp under level ~30 in f2p while doing nothing.

untrue, just shorter trips and alot less money, but still worth it imo. no, without a yak you miss out on 800k-1.5m in loot per hour at dks. they really aren't worth it without the yak or an optimist could say that TDs are more worth it than are dks w/o yak UNLESS you've done fremmy elite diary.

You would rather debate over choosing fun versus rank on a high scores table? This thread goes on because some people will never learn the difference between effective and efficienct, because it would put a butthurt on their egos. Of course, effective is saving your money in a savings account until you retire, efficient is putting it into a Roth, or some other form of investment vehicle, so that it grows far more. The efficient get more done. In fact, anything which grants XP is, technically, effective. You are trying to save fact, and miserably failing, by your blatant misuse of terms. You see, effective means: "Producing the intended or expected result". Sure, you can fletch yew longs for 99 fletching, it will get you there, but it will take far longer, and cost more, then fletching addy arrows. Effective is arriving at your destination, efficient is getting there the fastest/cheapest/most enjoyable way, a ratio of all three of these. And the the most enjoyable way to do something is a free variable, and cannot be accounted for in any calculations you may see. Which should be obvious, but some people refuse to see it. Enjoyability isn't as black and white as that- the majority of people feel the taste of things and see colours in the same way, and if we assume something for this majority, it is generally true. Most people find the same things to be fun, so if efficiency is generally fun, we don't usually have to take it into account for calculations.

Where is the discussion value? But yea, this will get deleted, you'll make another one, and you'll get banned. Good day of tip it moderators work....

Melee with good combat familiar is actually better than chinning/barraging due to the spawns and no auto aggression.

Did a few more efficiency calculations for ranging frost dragons, taking into account kills an hour, ammo cost and prayer cost. I assumed that the best method gets 100 kills an hour(200 with cannon, 100 from cannon, 100 from primary range weapon), and the other methods get less kills according to the DPS numbers from Moronic's range DPS calculation(see last post). The negative number or frost dragons was summed into the cost of other methods using the value 24k per frost dragon. For ammo, i used general information that i had on hand for the calculations. For hand cannon, 860 shot and 0,5 cannons per hour, for knives/darts, attractor retrieves 3/4 of the ammo you use, 800/1333/2000 shots an hour for different methods. Chaotic weapons also cost an extra 100k an hour. Broad bolts aren't retrieved(for more prayer bonus). Prayer pot cost is estimated from the prayer bonus of the different methods, rigour is estimated to have the same drain rate as piety(as i have no idea what it actually is). Do keep in mind, these are only guidlines, and don't take into account luring and how much time you lose doing nothing, but they do give a good generalisation on which methods are best. They also assume 99 firemaking(for hand cannon). Method Prayer Cost Hand Cannon (Hand Cannon Shot) 20% -497 Hand Cannon (Hand Cannon Shot) 15% -568 Dragon Darts 20% -631 Magic Shortbow (Rune Arrows) 20% -641 Toktz-xil-ul 20% -657 Rune Crossbow (Runite Bolts) 20% -675 Dragon Darts 15% -695 Rune Crossbow (Runite Bolts) 15% -711 Karils Crossbow 20% -724 Chaotic Crossbow (Runite Bolts) 20% -729 Rune Crossbow (Broad Bolts) 20% -740 Toktz-xil-ul 15% -756 Chaotic Crossbow (Runite Bolts) 15% -764 Rune Crossbow (Broad Bolts) 15% -785 Karils Crossbow 15% -785 Chaotic Crossbow (Broad Bolts) 20% -799 Rune Knife 20% -828 Chaotic Crossbow (Broad Bolts) 15% -841 Rune Knife 15% -901 Magic Shortbow (Zamorak Arrows) 20% -958 Prayer is either eagle eye(15%) or Rigour(20%), cost is calculated gain of money in thousands relevant to the fastest method, the higher the better. If anyone has any other ideas on what weapons or methods would be relevant for ranging, please, do let me know. Updated it a bit, adding msb and used better pricing(the prices of prayer potions and ammo is ~6 month average).

If you kill gargoyles, yes, if you don't(and they aren't a great task, average xp(35k), average drops and average charms) then it's not worth getting(i cancel the tasks).

Chinning isn't always more efficient than rune cbow+broad bolts. Efficiency has alot to do with current stats and current moneymaking methods and so on.

Ugh, yea it is. For some, red chins are the best ranged XP, for those that arent ridiculously rich, rune cbow is the best ranged XP. Its opinion. It's an opinion if you talk about something that can't be tested, but if i say that hand cannon has greater DPS than rune crossbow, it's a fact, as it can easily be tested and proved. I agree that this gets harder to do when you consider obscure methods(like cannoning or chinning) but for 1 on 1 comparison, this is fairly easy to do.

Rune knives don't sound the least bit overpriced? Not to mention you were talking about them being KO weapons. In the same way that dragon scim was the best strength training weapon, at times. Has to look at some guy ive never even heard of's DPS sheets just to have an opinion. KO weapons can't be good for training? In any case, your thought that crossbows were best is as wrong. It's also ridiculous that you go after just one of the two methods. I could argue that onyx/dragon bolts are ridiculously expensive, but you are not likely to use them. Hand cannon is about as expensive as diamond/rune bolts with chaotic crossbow, but have better DPS. Dragon scimitar has NEVER been the best strength training weapon. Dharok says hi. Opinion? which weapon is best for something isn't about opinion. If you think this is about opinions then you are as wrong as anyone. Weapons can be tested against one another, thus you can scientifically prove which of those is best, opinion or no opinion. You clearly aren't smart enough to go test out these range weapons, so using a good and proven range DPS calculator should be easy enough for you.

You know swh has lower strength bonus and is slower than the cls, right? And if you are referring to the special attack, VLS would be much, much better. Rapier is best with profound as people don't usually wear full barrows armor. I thought the special attack on Swh was 30% more damage, whilst the VLS was 25% more damage? I dunno =/. I do remember maxing far higher with AGS than VLS in PvP though 25% swh, 20% VLS, VLS is faster and special costs less(25% vs. 35%). Really, a little research never hurts before going out of your way defending a weapon. VLS special is also EXTREMELY accurate.

Rune knives and Hand cannon are the best range DPS weapons in runescape. Are claws/godswords under any of those distinctions? Crystal bow was the best range training weapon at times, and since this is historical discussion... You really should look at Moronic's range DPS sheets, otherwise you'll just look stupid...

You know swh has lower strength bonus and is slower than the cls, right? And if you are referring to the special attack, VLS would be much, much better. Rapier is best with profound as people don't usually wear full barrows armor.

Ehh, ever since the crossbow came out its pretty much been best. That is a horrible statement as it is EXTREMELY situational. When talking about boss hunting armadyl, sure, crossbows are best, but for ranged DPS, crossbows aren't the best. Before slayer people only used MSB, and it was effectively the only ranged weapon out there. Since then we have had crossbows, dark bow, god bows, hand cannon, crystal bow and karils cbow, and for training, atleast, there is no one clear favorite. Knives/darts are best for kurdal dungeon low defense monsters and general training, crossbows have average damage and average speed and accuracy, making them a good overall weapon, crystal bow is a cheap training weapon and hand cannon is a ~expensive high hitting pking/mh'ing weapon, so really, ranged weapons have changed a TON more. Chaotic weapons are not limited in attack style- they are also not limited in attack modes(can train strength). A chaotic rapier is ALWAYS better than whip with it's 4 lower slash attack and 19 higher strength bonus. Also, stab is the best attack mode to have, slash being the least useful. If you compare owning a chaotic weapon to a mortgage, then really, you will still be paying a mortgage when using an abyssal whip- only not in gp, but in your time, and more often than not, the mortgage on a whip is MUCH higher.

Unless you call doing Conquest not doing PC, no.

There is no great difference in any of the chaotic melee weapons for TD's and which is best for someone is likely down to their killing techniques(switching speed, use of shield, use of familiars), but it's certainly not worth getting another chaotic weapon just for TD's if you already have one.