pulli23

True there, and my reply might not be exactly for this case. However I still see a general consensus here that talking & user interaction is something which should be prevented? I think it's something which should be much, much more important in runescape, give a good mix of actions which either require competition (old gold mining at brimhaven like) or working together (boss hunting, dungeoneering). Ever since 2007 updates it seems the old skills become more and more single-player type things. And boss hunting is also mostly done single player nowadays.

@litterbug: However you forget something: to get that "extra dps increase" from the strength levels, you will have to spend a LOT of time training with a weapon whose total experience an hour is lower than the "ideal" (whip). Now the difference between 95-99 strength is minimal in average dps (it's like what, 5%?).. Yet it's a LOT of xp & time.

I feel that if you don't want to talk, don't want to work together, don't want to use the multiplayer aspect.. You're wasting a spot in a multiplayer game.. In the way you play runescape could just be downloadeable & you play on your own pcs..

By god we've got it. I actually heard of these long ago (back before trade limit). As far as I know they just died out from lack of interest just like those quiz bots. Not to mention, the only people who have bot software aren't they people who normally want to clear bots. I doubt it: I'm very well capable of writing bots for runescape.. However I never see the point in that, I play rs to spent time so why make it so that I have to spent less? And I know very, very many people think alike (well maybe not for rs, but for the games they play)...

Whip on controlled to max stats is slower than using a d scim for str first and then also using a d scim for training attack second and defense third. In other words never train with a whip on controlled. elaborate?

Slayer always gives a good blend of money, charms & combat xp. So if you need all these it's in deed a strong option.. (And I think that if you keep slaying you'll reach 99 summon at around 93 slayer). I'd immediatelly sell the saradomin sword if you need money: get a korasi and a zamorakian spear for waterfiends.

Someone who "follows the crowd" at LRC and doesn't talk isn't anywhere close to being reasonable criteria for reporting as a botter. All normal players do those things! You may think that dying is cause to show that somebody is a bot, but when I mine while watching TV, I can occasionally take 200-300 damage in total before I notice and move away. For some low-level skillers, that's more than enough to kill them. You are the reason that Jagex ignores so many reports. It's almost impossible for them to filter out the garbage reports from the good ones. Frankly, your ability to report for botting should be removed from your report abuse menu. uhm without a script you simply CANT keep up with the crowd there.. it lags too much for anyone..

Its' a GAME, why would you cheat in a game?

Wait is this skill ladder of "my" choice skill? Or is that a weekly determined skill? - I'd love to race for skills I LIKE to play, so I'll gladly help gaining ranks there if it's in my possibility.. However for skills I deem boring/are unable to skill thanks to rsi (I gave up on firemaking & hunting completely) I obviously won't help.. Does that mean I can stell be "in"?

I've reported over 100 of bots at the living rock caverns... one day I noted all bots I reported (though I admit there might've been some collateral damage, however dieing there, coming back immediatelly - never talking, and "following the crowd" seems very like a bot to me), and after a week of the 100+ I reported 0 were removed from highscores.

Only if you pk a lot... For non-pkers this update was (dare I say it: once again) useless..

Why is there so much discussion over this? Anyone who's well learned (and I think everyone here) should know that the moment you start to flame, get personal etc etc you lost the argument and on top of that your credibility as a human? so why are you even considering this?

Let's look at the root of the problem. There are 2 "things" that make a game botteable & probable to bot: -First of all the action which have to happen have to be "easy" and repetitive. -Secondly a person has to be willing to bot: so the achievements are worth more than the path. Now to battle botting you actually have to adress these two points. The second point is hardly adresseable by jagex, it requires a mentality change not only in the game but in real life too. The first point is hence the only option we (jagex) has direct influence over. The problem with a single player game such as runescape is that it will always be terribly easy & repetitive. The game follows very easily predicteable patterns and there's hardly any adaption/generation in the different actors. So to prevent people from botting on mass scale the best methods have to require user interaction; it's simply as far as I can see the only test where a bot can't do something a human can.

why couldn't they just create a simple elo system? Like is done with chess..... Works flawlessly there!

Erm... Whether there were pkers or not, if a bot works through the abbys, it would work anyway... Yet bots DID NOT work through the abbys.. Because if you couldn't evade pkers efficiently (which wasn't hard, however it required some skill nonetheles) it wasn't efficient. There is no 1 way to evade a pker, pking styles evolved over time and you had to constantly adapt. Because the game actually allows for solo gameplay, and older players like that to avoid a certain type of (let's call them) "younger" player? Question remains: why do you play an MMO over a single player game with online highscore tables & lots of DLCs? Wrong. First, granite is among the best, but not "the" best method of training minine. Second, just because there are new methods available does not mean people are forced to use them. Of course not: however if new methods are generally better, it means that either bots have to adapt a lot of times (which is difficult for the bot writer, and buys jagex time to ban accounts) or it means bots stick to the easy-to-bot-low-level-methods. In both cases the effects of bots get lowered a lot! You're suggesting everything any player does hás to be done with someone else, like dungeoneering? That's about as ridiculous as the claims you make in your signature (in my humble opinion). Good job bringing an ad hominem fallacy to the discussion (besides my claim is based on the simple fact that for both studies I follow (aerospace engineering & technical mathematics) the average time a student takes over his study is 7.5 years). But anyways: user interaction does not imply having to work together.. It just means that the style of the game is different from a single player game.

I'm not saying working in a group means working together like in dungeoneering.. Take runecrafting for example: the very best method in 2006 was using the abbys.. ALso here player interaction played a huge role (you had to evade pkers): this simplistic player interaction actually made bots having a much more difficult time.. There were hardly any runecrafting bots (while double nats was by far the best money-maker in whole runescape back then). I'm not saying that everything should be working together, however if you dislike user interaction: why the hell you playing an MMO? But what about my second suggestion: make it so that "granite power mining" isn't the best method to train mining, and that new methods constantly are unlocked every few levels.. That would mean that for each few levels another bot has to be written! EDIT: (you edited while I was typing): that's not as easy as it sounds. Even if you control all bots it's hard to coordinate them.. Sure it might work on a small scale but what about big scale user interaction.. Where everything isn't planneable? This is a very hot topic in research actually: for satelites they want to create a cluster of small satelites who work together to get the same results as a big 1.. (But as each satelite is an own piece it's much more easy to replace 1). Here everything is build up from the ground on different bots to work together; yet this is the weak link in those satelite systems and has yet to be ironed out.

Can people who say "stop criticizing jagex without giving good suggestions" please read this topic before EVER replying again? I made a strong suggestion already on page 1.. Yet it seems to be ignored by everyone of those jagex lovers, maybe because they couldn't easily say anything about it?

This in a nutshell. I hate it when people complain about something when they don't tell us a better way to go about it. Telling Jagex that their bot detection systems are worthless without elaborating is a wasted post. As far as I'm concerned, the Turing Test is the last line of defence, you may as well use it. Easy: make runescape less monotonous & grinding... Make every skill require some kind of people working together (as bots have a very hard time working together with humans, or random other bots). Make it so training methods change with each (couple of) levels, not that the method you unlock at lv 35 is the very best untill 99)..

Which food you actually used?

Btw, on the fast floor times & deaths: also notice that the faster the floor, the less important deaths are.. In a 20 min floor if you can shave of 2 minutes of the time by everyone dieing once it's stilll faster xp! But shadowforger tends to combo me pretty well: getting hit by 3 splashes > eating > glowing starts > still eating > when does the eating stop, clickspam > bam back at smuggler..

jagex should allow for "unresettable" (apart from manual jagex intervention) bank pins. - If you go on holiday/taking a break of rs your bank pin is now worth nothing!

If you're not going for a chaotic (rapier), the extra time spent getting the xp for 99 strength thanks to no whip (korasi) is much larger than the extra time spent on having ~95 str instead of 99. At high levels the differences aren't THAT noticeable anymore, and the weaponry means much more.

That assumes that you some how possess universally knowledge of everyone's requirements timewise and how much they can give to rs; which we can safely say you do not. I know plenty of adults who play more than I do, it depends on a huge amount of factors and in all honestly in an mmorpg 40 hours playtime isn't considered a huge amount of effort. mmorpg are meant to eat up time as you play them for years on end. Heck I'm not much of a no lifer and I have clocked up 216 days 21 hours play time, meaning 40 hours = 1/130 of my total play time. I spent atleast 3 times as much on that on other skills tht take grinding and are far less enjoyable. So because you did it, it is good? Really this whole argumenting seemed to be based on: "we had to suffer, so now new users have to suffer too". I ask again: WHY should such a thing take so much time? And yes I do not know the average runescape player, however I do know the average time that is healthy to play on computer games daiily (taking into account time spent at computer at job already). I couldn't care less that you are happy to spent more time on this than is healthy. However I DO care when jagex promotes activities which promote spending a lot of time in this game for no obvious reason.

If I can ask someone to help me not to spend time on gathering my torva's.. Why can't I ask someone to help me not to spent time on getting overloads?

Why do people love these things so much? Time should NOT be a limiting factor: intelligence, and capability to addapt should be the limiting factor in RPGS (after all, they are role playing games, so you should be able to fall into your role). Time just makes the game a good game for children, as adult you simply don't have the time to spent 40+ hours on a game. (Would take around a month of only doing this...)