Mining Injustices

[Nedich]

Mining...a great skill, my favourite probably. I like it because there is no cheap way to level it, there is no pest control, if you have 85 mining nobody can call you a PC noob because there is no PC for mining. Now my mining is level 73, IÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢m an average miner, maybe a bit more than average, IÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢m in the top 100k after all.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I spend a lot of time in the mining guild as IÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢m *aiming* for level 85 rune mining. As a level 73 I have roughly 5 times the experience of a level 60. Yet , I find myself being beaten regularly by level 60-65 miners. A friend of mine I regularly mine with has level 92 mining and he tells me that lower level miners have a much greater chance of gaining the ore than a higher player. He was telling me about a time he was mining with a level 99 miner and he beat him 7 times out of 10 despite the huge gap in experience.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm sure we have all experienced this problem. But, what are views on mining, do lower-levelled-miners have an advantage over higher players or is mining all about playing the odds? Let me reinforce what I'm saying, do you believe(like me) that there is too fine a line between high level miners and mid level miners.

[Randox]

I've never thought about that, maby thats why some low levels beat me when my mining level is superior, I always thought it was my computer laging, and sending the signal slower so they 1 hit before I do. I shall pay more attention in the future.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And for the record I belive succes should be granted based soly on mining level, combat level ha sno plac ein mining.

[King_Kazul]

Whether or not these ideas are true is yet to be scientifically proven.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I believe that what you wear while you mine affects how much/fast/effienciently you mine. I have been practicing this and i have noticed that i can beat many people to the coal or the adamant ore if i am wearing very little, or no armor. I think that also light armor (Leather, aprons, etc.) also do not affect the mining efficiency.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also i believe that should you chose to wear heavier armor while mining it takes a while for you to become "used" to mining while wearing armor. My Reasoning: I was mining in the wild wearing full rune minus the pl8, and d hide body. I was mining at a normal rate for me, but I encountered some rangers that wouldn't leave me be so i swapped out the d hide for my rune plate, and lo and behold my mining time drastically increased. I might be testing these out if i dont get too bored.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

O yea, btw, higher mining does help. When you get to a certain mining lv you can almost instantly mine iron, and if someone near you has that level, but your mining level is higher than their's than you will beat them as long as you click before they do.

[monkeyboo2]

naaa its just luck and mining lvl.

 

 

 

Sometimes lower levels get lucky and naturally people strive for a rational answer.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

People with higher mining have better odds of mining an ore in shorter time-people with low mining have more chance of taking longer.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On games things can be effected purely randomly, creating luck. The same with calculators. So games=calculators.

[Randox]

I suspect that King is on to something, I probaly shouldent wear my full armour mining. When your dealing with people who can 1 hit iron, im quite sure it's whoever gets there 'click signal' to the server fastest wins. So you can end up with people many levels apart where the inferior level wins because there internet can send the signals faster, ie less lag. I wish the servers would wait maby 1/20th or 1/15th of a second to see if a higher level mineing comand comes through, that would keep minor lag from interfering so much (I think - I don't know how long a delay would be nessasary, and it couldnt work if the needed delay was noticable to a human)

[brave]

When I mine I don't wear armour because I have found that armour reduces your ability to mine. I have found however that if you wear an Amulet of Glory and a ring of wealth you can mine quicker (i have done experiments to prove this). For example when mining coal I can 1-hit coal about 50% of the time (i am lev 80 mining BTW).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So, IMO, for ultimate mining ability wear nermal clothing (no armour), Glory ammy and Ring of welath (and, obviously, use a rune pick).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Having said this however there should be a much bigger gap in mining speeds between levels. After all a level 80 miner is much more experianced that a level 40 mine and so should be able to miner much quicker.

[pokstair]

As far as I know, and this coming from a person who powermined from 77 to 85, so long as both persons can 1-hit the iron rock in question, the person who clicks first wins. Even if they may seem to hit the rock with the pickaxe at the same time.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I dont have any conclusive evidence to prove this hypothesis, for one proving/disproving it will be too hard because human reaction times arent a constant factor and neither is lag.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am not too sure about coal, but I do believe coal should be easier for higher level miners.

[dargonhuman]

I'm a miner/smither (meaning I smith everything I mine), and I have no patience for competing with other people for resources, so I usually go to the Wild to get my ores.

 

 

 

I've got level mining and level smithing, and one thing I've noticed after mining literally tens of thousands of mith ores is that the rocks seem to have a random number of "hit points" assigned to them when you click (by "hit points", I mean the number of times you have to swing your pick at the rock).

 

 

 

Sometimes when a mith rock is being too stubborn, I'll click on the next rock in line, then go back, at which point I get the ore with considerably less fuss. This led me to test my developing hypothesis by finding another stubborn rock, clicking the rock next to it, then clicking back on the offending rock real quick. More than half the time, I got the ore from the stubborn rock in under five hits.

 

 

 

I've also tried this without clicking on other rocks, but that doesn't seem to have the same effect. If true, the randomly assigned "hit points" would be dependant on mining level; in other words, if you're just barely able to mine mith, your rocks would frequently get higher numbers assigned, whereas a level 40-something miner would get mostly 1's 2's and 3's assigned to his Iron rocks. And who knows, armor may play a factor, too.

 

 

 

Of course, it could all be random, as I've been able to one- or two-hit fifeen coals in a row, then get stuck on one stubborn rock for up to six minutes, only to go right back to one- and two-hitting. Without being able to directly analyze the game code, we're all just guessing. Only Jagex knows for sure, and they're not telling, most likely due to paranoia that cheaters might find a way to abuse the code somehow, which actually might be a fairly healthy paranoia...

[Harrington]

I completely agree, although this disparity problem is not just restricted to Mining.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

For instance, despite being a lvl 125 warrior, I often find myself being out fought by players at say, level 100 or so.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think that in many "skills of chance", were you to hide the actual levels, no one would accurately guess your level on observation alone.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think however, that if you were to measure your coal mining luck against a level 60 over a period of say, several hours, you'd probably notice quite a big difference in your favour.

[Nedich]

Some diverse theories coming through here. Lot's of different speculations which are very interesting without doubt. But as someone earlier rightly pointed out there is no solid evidence from Jagex. Does that make this debate pointless? No I don't think so because you're all welcome to try and prove your theory if you wish...if you can find the time :wink:

[Solidus_77]

Three reasons why this has yet to be proven

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

First of all, for people ignorant of probability, you need to do the trials about 400 possibly even 1000 times. (the more it gets the more accurate the results are) 10 trials doesn't account for anything

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Second of all, people tend to complain about being beaten by a low lvl miner and always report this. However they rarely report the times when the odds worked in their favor because that's what they expect

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Third of all, the connection influences very much the outcome. I have had the mine dissapear before I even strike it (Because I had more lag). Most of the people complaining don't pay attention to this exterior factor enough

[Greedom1]

I've found that wearing something with a high "crush" attack seems to increase the rate I mine (at least on gem rocks in Shilo).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you're curious, try mining with a fire bstaff (or maybe lava) weilded in weapon spot, and the rune pick in your inv. (Alternatively try a dragon spear -- oddly this seemed to boost my mining even more -- Dragon BAxe not as much though.)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I use the lava staff since I alch while the rocks respawn... more efficient that way.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also, if you're mining gem rocks, I find that a ring of wealth seems to increase the likelihood of getting better gems.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not saying these are hard facts, just a few trends I've noticed when mining there.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Obviously none of us know for sure, and clearly it may be random, but nevertheless it seems that something is up when it comes to mining. Whether it's what you're wearing or weilding, or perhaps your levels, I think there's something going on.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As for your comment about "too fine a line" between high level and mid-level miners, I agree. While they shouldn't make it too easy for lvl 90+ to get ores, they perhaps should boost their advantage over say a lvl 70 when both are mining the same rock.

[Greedom1]

I'm a miner/smither (meaning I smith everything I mine), and I have no patience for competing with other people for resources, so I usually go to the Wild to get my ores.

 

 

 

I've got level mining and level smithing, and one thing I've noticed after mining literally tens of thousands of mith ores is that the rocks seem to have a random number of "hit points" assigned to them when you click (by "hit points", I mean the number of times you have to swing your pick at the rock).

 

 

 

Sometimes when a mith rock is being too stubborn, I'll click on the next rock in line, then go back, at which point I get the ore with considerably less fuss. This led me to test my developing hypothesis by finding another stubborn rock, clicking the rock next to it, then clicking back on the offending rock real quick. More than half the time, I got the ore from the stubborn rock in under five hits.

 

 

 

I've also tried this without clicking on other rocks, but that doesn't seem to have the same effect. If true, the randomly assigned "hit points" would be dependant on mining level; in other words, if you're just barely able to mine mith, your rocks would frequently get higher numbers assigned, whereas a level 40-something miner would get mostly 1's 2's and 3's assigned to his Iron rocks. And who knows, armor may play a factor, too.

 

 

 

Of course, it could all be random, as I've been able to one- or two-hit fifeen coals in a row, then get stuck on one stubborn rock for up to six minutes, only to go right back to one- and two-hitting. Without being able to directly analyze the game code, we're all just guessing. Only Jagex knows for sure, and they're not telling, most likely due to paranoia that cheaters might find a way to abuse the code somehow, which actually might be a fairly healthy paranoia...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I almost always re-click (or click on another ore) when a rock is being stubborn. (Often after more than about 12-15 hits on mith I get fed up with it). Just like you, more often than not I find it's usually easier the next time I try it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I might add that a similar effect can be found when wcing (or fishing for that matter). I know this has been discussed before, but it seems they have some code that determines the amount of time it will take before you get the ore/log/fish when you first click on it. Re-clicking or clicking somewhere else seems to "restart" the operation and more often than not this helps for me. (Mining this seems the most effective btw -- less so with fishing and wcing.)

[mrmyk]

it's unproven really so i'll just stand by that the higher the mining level, the more chance of getting the ore. Just carry on to 99 i say, my friend with 99 says no one challenges him for the coal in the guild thanks to that cape :lol:

[Randox]

I'm a miner/smither (meaning I smith everything I mine), and I have no patience for competing with other people for resources, so I usually go to the Wild to get my ores.

 

 

 

I've got level mining and level smithing, and one thing I've noticed after mining literally tens of thousands of mith ores is that the rocks seem to have a random number of "hit points" assigned to them when you click (by "hit points", I mean the number of times you have to swing your pick at the rock).

 

 

 

Sometimes when a mith rock is being too stubborn, I'll click on the next rock in line, then go back, at which point I get the ore with considerably less fuss. This led me to test my developing hypothesis by finding another stubborn rock, clicking the rock next to it, then clicking back on the offending rock real quick. More than half the time, I got the ore from the stubborn rock in under five hits.

 

 

 

I've also tried this without clicking on other rocks, but that doesn't seem to have the same effect. If true, the randomly assigned "hit points" would be dependant on mining level; in other words, if you're just barely able to mine mith, your rocks would frequently get higher numbers assigned, whereas a level 40-something miner would get mostly 1's 2's and 3's assigned to his Iron rocks. And who knows, armor may play a factor, too.

 

 

 

Of course, it could all be random, as I've been able to one- or two-hit fifeen coals in a row, then get stuck on one stubborn rock for up to six minutes, only to go right back to one- and two-hitting. Without being able to directly analyze the game code, we're all just guessing. Only Jagex knows for sure, and they're not telling, most likely due to paranoia that cheaters might find a way to abuse the code somehow, which actually might be a fairly healthy paranoia...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think your on to something, I too have noticed that when a rock is 'stuborn' going to another rock then coming back solves the problem. I find that rocks (I notice this most with gold because there easyer to keep track of than coal in the mining guild) are hard or soft. In the crafting guild I find there always a couple rocks that will consistantly give me a hard time, however I can use the rock switing method if no one is around to solve this. So I dont think that the rock 'hit points' are compleatly random.

[Freesia]

For fairness sake, you should not make your coclusion based a few outmined cases here and there. In general, in an inventory of 28 ores, a high lvl miner WILL finish the load faster.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sometimes what annoys me is that my pick is being very "rusty". Every rock i mine seems to be a stubborn one. In that case, i may usually relog and start mining again. Though i have no idea how to solve that problem, sometimes relogging solves it and sometimes it don't

[GrimHams]

I have to agree, even though out of the 4 years i've been playing rs i've only got 52 mining i think it needs an update, its an original skill and loads of f2pers level it first so it should get more ores or a freaky mining mini game. :-s

[Eyrelex]

I think once you reach a certain level, level makes less and less of a difference and just becomes random. I just finished mining 23.8k coal last week and throughout that time i would find myself being routinely beaten by lower lvl miners on some occasions and sometimes i would get every rock i went to. I say its all just luck of the draw as long as you have the same pick axes.

[anim7]

I think that there should not be any one hit lvl in mining. As you gain levels, the chances of one hitting should increase. For example, right now we have one hit mining lvl at around 47-50 mining. I would prolly lose to these guys if their comp was fast enough.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It should be changed so that lvl 45 have 50% chance of one hitting. lvl 55 have 60% chance. And so on... lvl 80s should have like 95% chance.

[Eyrelex]

I think that there should not be any one hit lvl in mining. As you gain levels, the chances of one hitting should increase. For example, right now we have one hit mining lvl at around 47-50 mining. I would prolly lose to these guys if their comp was fast enough.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It should be changed so that lvl 45 have 50% chance of one hitting. lvl 55 have 60% chance. And so on... lvl 80s should have like 95% chance.

 

 

 

I don't think that there is any one hit levels for anything above iron, and even with iron i've had the odd ocassion where its taken more than one hit so its not 100%.

[Drazon]

Actually, some of this stuff isn't based on paranoia. There is some form of glitch where if you click at the right time on any rock, it will be instantly emptied of ore.

[fishy227]

I do think that a higher mining level should make you get the ore.

 

 

 

But i was mining with a level 45 at coal and he got it. he's only 5! level above coal and he wins it!

 

 

 

-.- :x

[ianer101]

Lol, this is kind of funny, but it's not true. Jagex wouldn't set up the mining skill system so that lower levels get it more than high levels.

 

Also, there isn't much of a difference between mining level 92 and 99 (only 7). It's likely that the level 99 miner was either lagging or having bad luck.

[kunasako]

Truth be told, I've been beaten by level 50 miners (and i'm an 85 :roll: ) and it has almost everything to do with connection. Speed in clicking is significant, but if you happen to be in a world where your connection isn't ideal, you stand a very good chance of being beaten by lower level miners. Personally from my own experience 75% is connection and 25% is speed in clicking.

[RpgGamer]

obviously mining has been tampred with by the allmighty guthix...i think this is an attempt by Jagex to make it so low levels can catch up to the high levels. as much as i trust guthix and his ways of balance, i think that it is a tad unfair that low miners are beating high miners at a 7:10 ratio. i think the ratio hould be more in favor to the high lvls at something closer to a 5:7 ratio. i also have 73 mining, going for 85 :wink: